My grandparents were social people. Once. I know this because I knew them, some 20-odd years ago as a child visiting Pakistan. They had chai with their neighbors, chatted with the doodhwalla [milkman] and bargained their way through the markets in the city of Lahore. They were lively, much-loved, essential parts of their tightly-knit community. But everything’s different now. Now, they live in the suburbs of New Jersey. Outside of children, grandchildren, occasional visits to church and medical visits, they don’t see many people. Their friends are in Pakistan, or scattered across the globe in the homes of their own children. And as they grow older, my grandparents, trapped by their deteriorating bodies, have traded scooters and cars for walkers and wheelchairs. I can see the loneliness in their eyes. But they aren’t the only ones.
Sunday’s New York Times featured an article called “Invisible Immigrants, Old and Left With ‘Nobody to Talk To,” about elderly immigrants in America whose lack of social connectedness can be caused by many barriers – including poverty, lack of transportation and language restrictions.
Many are aging parents of naturalized American citizens, reuniting with their families. Yet experts say that America’s ethnic elderly are among the most isolated people in America. Seventy percent of recent older immigrants speak little or no English. Most do not drive. Some studies suggest depression and psychological problems are widespread, the result of language barriers, a lack of social connections and values that sometimes conflict with the dominant American culture, including those of their assimilated children.
The article profiled some of the members of The 100 Years Living Club, a group of elderly desi men based in Fremont, California who gather in the front of a mall five days a week to chitchat. Many of the men spoke of being pressured out of their children’s homes into separate dwellings.
Mr. Singh, the widower, grew up in a boisterous Indian household with 14 family members. In Fremont, he moved in with his son’s family and devoted himself to his grandchildren, picking them up from school and ferrying them to soccer practice. Then his son and daughter-in-law decided “they wanted their privacy,†said Mr. Singh, an undertone of sadness in his voice. He reluctantly concluded he should move out. So when he leaves the Hub, dead leaves swirling around its fake cobblestones, Mr. Singh drives to the rented room in a house he found on Craigslist. His could be a dorm room, except for the arthritis heat wraps packed neatly in plastic bins. “In India there is a favorable bias toward the elders,†Mr. Singh said, sitting amid Hindu religious posters and a photograph of his late wife. “Here people think about what is convenient and inconvenient for them.â€
Which makes me wonder, how long until more nursing homes open up desi units? Or even (*gasp), nursing homes catering solely towards desi clientele? Sure, putting the elderly in nursing homes isn’t a typical tradition in the South Asian culture, but as the article correctly points out, traditions are changing. The nuclear family is taking over the extended family.
My own mother, who’s worked as a nurse at a nursing home for the past eight years, is fully prepared for the nursing home life come post-retirement. “I’m not going to rely on my American kids,” she tells us, despite our remonstrations. Even as she drives two hours every weekend to visit her own mother and of late, has spend nights sleeping in an uncomfortable chair at the hospital, beside her, she maintains that the structure of our American families won’t allow for the type of all-inclusive care she provides her own ailing parents. Is she right? I sure hope not, but given the high number of Asian residents she sees at her nursing home, it doesn’t seem implausible. And given that so many elderly immigrants are shuttered from the outside world, would such a facility provide them with the opportunity to interact in a meaningful way with peers from similar backgrounds? Or is that just wishful thinking?
An article in yesterday’s Washington Post, suggests that facilities that cater to elderly immigrants from exclusive populations are successful at attracting residents and keeping them happy.
In the Washington area, which has residents from 193 countries, there are retirement homes that cater to a single ethnic group, such as Chinese or Korean, serving their native foods and hiring staff who speak their native tongues. Now some general population facilities are also tailoring their services to an increasingly diverse clientele.
“Everyone is going to have to learn more about various ethnic and cultural sensitivities, because the marketplace of aging is getting more diverse,” said Larry Minnix, president and chief executive of the American Association of Homes and Services for the Aging. “I think, over the next five to 10 years, you’re going to see a lot of attention paid to this.”
But the article also pointed the gaps in care for more hard-to-reach groups, like South Asians.
There are also fewer facilities catering to more recent arrivals. “If you’re, say, kosher Jewish, there’s plenty of places,” Minnix said. “But what do you do if you’re Pakistani? I don’t think we’ve got any disciplined, well-thought-out answer to that.”
Well, do we? So far, I’ve found only one center in New Jersey that promotes itself as an “Indian Care Nursing Home.” As far as I can tell, it’s the only one of its kind. Anyone know of any others? Know anyone who’s enrolled in one? Likes it? Hates it? What’s your long-term plan for your parents?
This has been one of my pet peeves in the Indian community. I see a lot of Indian families bring their parents over mainly to help them to raise their kids. But do they make the effort to have them socialize in the day time when they are away at work? A big fat no. I have suggested to friends and cousins (many of these families are loaded too) that they should hire a driver to transport their parents to some common meeting places during the daytime. Or they can take turns with other older people in meeting at one of their kids’ houses. I just see a total lack of concern for their parents social needs in a lot of these houses. They seem to think they did their duty by bringing their parents along to these Indian parties where some other old people may be present.
There are very easy solutions but I see very little initiative on part of these families to solve this issue.
This is interesting.
A few of the Desis in my hometown have actually been having low-intensity, pie-in-the-sky discussions for a few years now about something similar. Basically they wanted to collectively buy up a whole bunch of land and move into a what amounts to a little Desi neighborhood when they retire so that they’ll have other people around.
A lot of them have also considered moving back to India to be with their distant family, although I suspect this sounds more feasible on paper than in reality given that living in the US for long enough will make it hard to adjust back.
I thought it was a nice idea, but I always did like our cultural norm of not kicking our elderly to the curb once they are no longer economically productive. Ideally I’d like to have my parents move into the house next-door or down the street or something just so they don’t get lonely. Such things, however, would of course have to be cleared by my hypothetical future wife.
Grandparents as babysitters. Good point, Pravin. The NYTimes article mentioned that as well.
This article made me so sad. Who puts their parents in a garage? Or puts them out because of “privacy?” I live with my parents right now and I feel so fortunate to have them in my life. I know that when we all get older, I will give not just a room in my house, but the best room in my home.
I think this article really highlights how isolating it can be to stay at home all day with no social outlet.
I think this is just more a consequence of how we design our cities in America. Urban sprawl and sense of community don’t go well together. People need places to congregate.
Therein lies the rub. Whether or not parents require 24-hour medical care (like my grandparents), some spouses simply think it’s crazy to share a home with their elderly parents. It really takes an understanding partner to make the at-home thing work, especially if you’re both working.
I want my parents to be a part of me and any children i my have for ever and ever. So I guess …. soylent.
or
The Hindu perspective: Parent are my gods (Twameva mata cha pita twameva) & Annam Brahma -> Parents = Annam
…
Seriously, for a 1st gen immigrant, the India of immigrants old age center makes me uncomfortable. If the parents are not going to live with the family, why bring them over from India, from environments they are comfortable, and where they have friends in and instead inflict an alien land on them. Sounds cruel to me.
The notion of grandparents as babysitters doesnt always work as baby sitting a toddler for example can be very taxing on an ailing grandparent. Maybe keeping an eye on them is ok for a short while but having to run after the toddler, be on their case for longer periods is not something everyone can/wants to do.
Also having parents stay with you later on in life is probably a lot easier anywhere if you have the big houses, with different levels so everyone is in close proximity but can savious some privacy. I
like the idea of parents living close by if they dont live in the same house so at least you can check up on them, help when needed.I also like the idea of social events.
toronto does have ‘ethnic’ nursing homes amogn which there is a tamil and an east indian representation. of the other ‘ethnics’, the chinese community, although their roots are much deeper in canada than southasians, has the yeehong foundation which operates a few geriatric research centres and nursing homes. dizydesi – i think you’re underestimating your parents. i think it is better to live with dignity and enjoy companionship of others in the same agegroup rather than be living in isolation in the suburbs with only grandkids as companions.
Over the past few years, I have had this same conversation with friends in the health care sector. They are finding that Indian parents are showing up in hospitals, with no one to take care of them.
I’ve met a couple ‘entrepreneurial’ type of people, who have some great ideas on ways to keep parents entertained during the day. The bus idea is great, simple. But one thing about our community, is that we DO NOT PONY UP THE CASH required for a project like this.
Vancouver has a Sikh Senior Care facility, and to what I have learned, its running VERY SMOOTHLY, and very successfully. 100% non profit. the name is slipping my mind, but its in Surrey.
this is giong to be an upcoming issue for the new generation.
gotta catch up to the other communities whom have set this up for their family (chinese, jews)
This is a discussion many of my desi friends have been having of late. We were all either born in North America or raised here and our parents were part of the first big wave of desi immigration in the late 60s / early 70s. These parents are now retired and living on their own but at some point soon will require more attentive care.
This cohort of older desis have been living in North America for approximately 40 years and it is for this group that I think a desi nursing home may make sense. Moving back to India would be be difficult given the elapsed time since emigration and moving in with the kids could be a challenge given their North American raised kids preference for a nuclear family rather than an extended family.
I was actually raised by my uncle and grandparents for the most part. I wouldn’t be in North America if it wasn’t for them.
I have heard and seen in-laws sometimes treating their mother in-laws as a burden after a while or even in addition to babysitting taking advantage of them for cooking, cleaning, etc and then complaining about having to take them to the doctor. Or stories of people taking inadequate care of their parents / grandparents, sometimes because they themselves are elderly.
Many grandparents are also saying no to the whole – come be my babysitter idea – they’ve lived their lives and worked hard and don’t necessarily want to be full time nannies.
Where I am from, most Punjabis keep their parents home with them. It is the norm to have 2-3 generations living together in large homes. A big trend I have seen in the last decade is aunts, uncles, grandparents going back to Punjab to have a house built in or close to their pinds – original villages. This is their vacation home or basically a retirement home plan.
The interesting thing is that many Indian parents will say no to living with their daughter – some sense of not wanting to add stress or mess with her marriage – that she is now a part of someone else’s family.
I never blinked at the thought of my gf’s dad living with us, now or in the future – something that even we have discussed would be a huge issue for many non-Asian people to understand. But every person / personality is different – once you meet the in-laws, and if there are issues, you may not want to spend every day with them. I can see this being a big issue as well for western-Indian couples. Especially for only-sons or elder sons who feel the pressure of being family-oriented.
One thing I always hated seeing was elderly sardars or bibis carrying groceries by themselves to their homes. I know there were some who did live on their own, in basements for whatever reason. But it always made me so mad – thinking of why their kids or family didn’t take care of them. That’s the Indian raw reflexive reaction in me.
I think a society will always be judged by how we treat our loved ones young or old.
This story for some reason reminded me of the time I was driving home, and at a stop sign, an older bibi just walked up, opened the backseat door and got in and simply stated in essence can you just drop me to my home nearby. It was a complete Punjabi / Indian moment. She didn’t ask beforehand or even know who I was – but she knew we were the same people, same language and that I would be ok. It was hilarious and stuck with me.
This is why I have seen a lot of Indian immigrants move back to India once they retire or semi-retire. Most of them have done extremely well once they went back, and have fallen smoothly into the extended families circle.
I think if you still have any links with the motherland, this is the way to go. As you can afford a much better lifestyle there, and in general have more opportunities for social interaction.
Thanks Phillygrrl, for bringing up this important topic. This is one of reasons many of the younger desi immigrants of today wants to go back to desh, with US education and experience et. al. The family they hail from are nuclear compared to larger ones earlier immigrants came from.
Personally, I shudder at the thought of our parents living in an old-age home (the ones in India are absolutely woeful compared to the ones in US). I would not be able to forgive myself. When in US, I struggle to find other parents visiting from India so that all parents can hang around together. Like Pravin @1, I have also thought it would be great idea to find a network of older parents to hang around, with younger people taking turns to give them company. But I have not been able to find a network of people. It’ll be a great start-up if someone starts a website like that for US, and for India. If anyone knows about any such thing please let me know. More solutions are welcome.
My parents are divorced. So my mom is free to stay with me and at times she will stay with my sibling. At some point, I do find it tough because i don’t live a very traditional social life. I like my one night stands and while my mom won’t object, I definitely would feel inhibited about engaging in such affairs in an upper middle class sized house(maybe if i had a huge house with my mom in a separate wing, that would work out).
If i get married, I would make sure she gets a house near mine or a house designed in such a way that the bedrooms are all not next to one another.
BTW, I see even our generation of Americans being more aware of taking care of their parents in their old age. I see more of that coexistence among non Indian families here as the years go by.
You know how indian families take the trouble to find other indian families with kids so that their kids can have playdates? Well, how about making some kind of effort to find compatible old age friends for your parents? It really pisses me off when I see so many older Indians looking bored in their kids houses.
I think this problem is bigger with the DBDs. At least a lot of our parents have built a social network of varying sizes over the years.
LOL. I have something similar. I was helping out this elderly sikh couple on a flight to desh and this older lady seemed impressed and asked me to come over for dinner one night. Buddy is hungry. well. it turns out she thought i was a suitable prospect for her friend’s daughter and asked if i am open to the idea. sure lady. i’m cool. then her daughter arrived. she’s more streetsmart and asked outright if i was sikh. umm.. no [does it matter?]. well, the rishta went downhill from there. But the rajmah chawl were delish. Buddy is happy.
but you know what i dont think it’s about language or color. another time this older turkmenistani woman stopped me when she was having language trouble and the local MP’s office wouldnt listen to her. she was a little disturbed and just needed to relax a little and then we made it happen. so… i guess it isnt just a punjabi/indian moment. it’s a human thing. i think a lot of older people feel frustrated that their social interaction can not keep up with their still alert minds due to gaps in language skills. and that’s the sad part. so much to say. so few who listen.
I saw something the other day that was strange at 1st, but it makes sense.
It was an adult day care center. You just drop off the old folks at this place and they take care of them and they can walk around and mingle or rest in a private room and you can go to work or do what ever without worrying about anyone at home.
This way if you dont want to put your parents in a 24 hour “old folks” home then at least they are being taken care of and around people there own age for a large part of the day.
A photographer once told me, that everytime he did a retirement gig, most retirees who stated that they would just kick back and do nothing – did not live long. You need to remain active and social even when you’re older. Having a social community helps with this. Everywhere you go in Surrey you see babbas and bibbis / nannas and nannis going for walks and meeting up in parks.
Forgot to mention – another huge issue for the elderly – the older you get, the harder it is to recover from injuries and health issues. Small injuries can cause a domino effect with overall health. I have seen what happens when a senior who is very ill is put in a nursing home to recover – they don’t live long. Having your family around you can not only help with better recovery but can also make your end of days so much easier.
khoofi – the reason that funny moment was specifically punjabi for me, was that she just got in out of nowhere, spoke in punjabi about where her home was and that was it – no other please / thank yous – just that she didn’t thing there was anything wrong with getting in a strangers car and getting a quick ride. Was very quaint / village-like.
I first noticed one of these kinds of centers just around the corner from my house catering to elderly Vietnamese. Within my community they’re probably the most heavily represented ethnic minority, so I don’t doubt there might be something similar catering to South Asians in areas where desis predominate…
I am the white American wife of a Pakistani born-and-bred, recently-immigrated-to-America-just-for-grad-school-but-married-a-gori-instead guy. He is the eldest son and his parents have stayed with us for a few months out of each year. Eventually they will live with us the majority of the time, spending the rest globe-trotting to all the other kids’ houses, including one who will stay in their own home in Karachi.
There really is an opportunity here to make some kind of services or activities available, because this post really highlights something I’ve been trying to deal with myself. Not the nursing home thing, because it is understood that my in-laws will have a place in our home always. But even in American elder care, there are lots of varying options. I know of one organization that organizes outings and activities for Alzheimer’s patients so that even through the stages of a debilitating disease, these people can lead enriching lives.
I have often wondered where I can find things to fill up my in-laws’ day. I really wish there were some kind of desi activities for the elderly. I tried to enroll my mother in law in a knitting class, but she didn’t want to attend a class in English. She also doesn’t want to take ESL classes, at least not with strangers at our local high school. Some of my husband’s cousins have their parents working, one Khaloo at FedEx and one Mama at McDonald’s. I’m not sure if my FIL wants to work here one day. Perhaps I’m just not finding the right things, but I have not found anything in my area like the Muslim Support Network described. Even the local Mosque does not have any lecture or classes in Urdu. At least not yet, but perhaps a renewed effort might convince them to start something…
However, one issue I am experiencing is a reluctance to attend any kind of activity I can find. My theory for this reluctance is that my inlaws have such large families that their social lives for the past 40 years have revolved around family functions and relationships – or maybe, at most, a very close neighbor who is considered family. It just doesn’t seem as if my MIL wants to, or feels comfortable with, the idea that she will meet up with strangers and try to make new friendships at organized activities. Even when we attend desi parties at which there are other older women attendees, she is not very assertive about trying to strike up conversation or build social connections.
Goriwife @21: I have had the same experience with ‘reluctance’, and I agree with your theory, but not sure if its all of it. But it becomes rather difficult to drag them like a kid to every event. The inertia against trying new things and meeting more people seems to increase with age. But I always find that they actually feel happy once they cross over the starting inhibition and get involved. But I am still struggling to find more activities and more desis for them to hang out with when they are here. Personally, I wouldn’t recommend religious activities for various reasons, and also because it shrinks and divides the desi-parents pool further.
Ha! But I suppose you’re keshdhari or were otherwise sporting something that gave her that sense of security. Good man. for that matter my aunt was walking around toronto (in a salwar kameez) and this older pakistani dude leaped out of a store [in her words] and was overjoyed someone from the mulk was here. one advantage i admit the seniors have over us is that they dont even try to blend in and are genuinely glad to see someone of the same culture – most people in my age group form their identity with ‘what they do’. the seniors talk about ‘where they are from’. it makes for deeper connections. I am mulling over TGW’s attempts to engage her MIL, FIL. Maybe the seniors are not looking for engaging, stimulating activities, but looking for people with whom they have a regional, societal bond.
phllygrrl .. thanks for a wonderful post. the compassion and warmth come through.
i was raised by my grandparents. in their old age when they were the ones that needed to be looked after, they only wanted the company of their grandchildren and children. that is all they starved for. they never thought they asked for much not even that. but that is all they wanted. how their eyes would light up at a full and booming house.
caring and safety for them is always important and you can never be there 24/7. but i have always found its family that they most want.
I am what you call 1.5 generation DBB (desi-born bideshi). I left my country during my mid-teen years. After 10 years of inducting myself to western-ways, still at times I suffer from the same old “sense of not belonging” syndrome. I can’t imagine asking my parents to come here for good but I know at some point I probably have to since my brother is also here, and they wouldn’t feel right to burden my sisters. interesting thing is I myself fear I will end up with “nobody to talk to”, it’s difficult to imagine what would happen to my parents.
I had a desi doctor tell me that one of the things he noticed is that on long weekends, a lot of elderly Indians show up in the ER – when the nurse or whoever turns around to get the paperwork done by the family, the family’s off and disappeared. The family miraculously show up again at the end of the weekend to pick up their parents. It’s so sad.
I’ve never wanted to live in a joint family when I got married. Never had the inclination – it’s a combination of wanting my own space and life and also seeing a few too many negative examples in my own life. The model just doesn’t work for everyone. HOWEVER, I just can’t imagine not being there to take care of my own parents or my future husband’s parents, thinking twice about asking them to live with us when they can’t take care of themselves or sticking them in a home because they cramp my style, or whatever. I don’t judge those who don’t feel that way – to each his own. But don’t be mean to them.
My grandparents are involved in a local Seniors’ group – they do random activities, take day trips, have meetings, social gatherings, etc. A huge problem with attendance is due to a lack of transportation. A lot of the seniors don’t/can’t drive and a lot of couples just don’t feel like chauffeuring their parents around. After all, the parents moved in to help THEM, right? I do understand the difficulty when bringing parents from India/Pakistan/etc. – they don’t have their social circle here, they don’t often speak the language, they don’t know the area/can’t drive, etc. etc. But if you bring them here, then it does fall on you to at least help them communicate, travel or at the very least help them meet others w/ similar interests. Think about how you would feel if, after taking care of all your loved ones, making yourself your own person, you suddenly had all your independence taken away, all of your finances taken out of your control, and weren’t allowed to speak anymore? Of course so many of our elders are lonely and depressed.
I have a relative that built a house from the ground up, and while her and her husband got the giant master bedroom upstairs, the elderly parents got a ground floor room (necessary because of their knees – understandable) that is maybe 10′ by 10′, if that, behind the kitchen next to the garage entrance. They purposely designed the house to make their elders feel like a burden and undeserving of respect.
But how convenient that Grandma’s room is so close to the kitchen.
My parents are still quite young, but, like a lot of people here, I can’t imagine putting them in a nursing home. If I or my sibling are somehow unable to take care of them, I’d rather they go to India where they can be near relatives and old friends. On another note, places like Florida have “Kerala retirement communities”, which they always advertise on the Malayalam channels. Not nursing homes, but kind of a similar idea.
Elvis and Black JFK fighting a mummy in a retirement home and a thoughtful look at old age. Check it. It will make you think twice about using your parents as cheap baby sitters.
Thats the biggest dilemma for me, abt settling down in US.. I love this place, but me being the only son, theres no one else to take care of them.. They spent their whole life to make sure I had the life that I m living right now… Its my turn now.. The option of bringing them here is something I had in mind, but Im pretty sure its going to be really tough for them.. My career options, lifestyle look much better here.. wish I could find a way to sort it out..
A tangentially related question: how do folks arrange for health insurance for aged parents visiting the US from S. Asia?
There’s this website http://www.insubuy.com/ which seems to cater to S. Asians, but it feels weird that it’s seemingly the only option out there. And it’s hard to get an objective opinion about the quality of their product (i.e., whether their insurance really pays when it counts).
A tangentially related question: how do folks arrange for health insurance for aged parents visiting the US from S. Asia?
There are lot of providers that do medical insurance for people visiting, and/ or younger, older people coming to US of A.
Tata-AIG is one of them for people from India.
This is an issue that genuinely freaks me out. I am not there at the stage where I need to worry about this but it’s coming up. Leaving them in India is not really a option since our family support base isn’t very strong. I do believe leaving them in a nursing home is out of the question. And I really don’t see what the problem would be with having them live with us since my parents are more-or-less unobtrusive and my new wife is very understanding too. What does bother me is the isolation they will feel here. In my case, the alternate – leaving them in India – would be just as bad. Even if I had stayed behind in India, I can see this would be a problem.
I hope some people who came from India and then brought their parents here can share their experiences.
Also, if I didn’t let my parents babysit and left my (future) kid in some creche, I’m sure they’d kidnap him/her and bring him/her home 🙂
Great post on a crucial topic. One aspect that’s been underplayed so far, I think, is the financial one. If you’re earning in rural Texas, say, moving in the parents is relatively cheap. If you’re earning on Madison Avenue, though, it’s a lot more expensive–crazy expensive, in fact, if you want to live the Manhattan life. This is what drives me up the wall. I don’t want my desi cultural commitments to mean I can’t live in Manhattan, but that’s the way it seems to be going. So, I get angry, even though I aspire to live a much less conflicted life.
I feel finances have loads to do with it as well. I’m a white girl but my mom is struggling financially a bit (I live overseas and live in a cramped one-bed with my man — we can’t even afford to have a kid) and I asked my dad (they’re divorced) what I should do, how I should feel, etc. He was like, parents are NOT their childrens’ repsonsibilities, ever — that the sacrifices you make as a parent are given unconditionally with no expectation of a return on your investment. He’s the type that says push him out to sea on an ice floe if he’s ever incapacitated. But obviously if you have a good relationship with your parents (most people I know DON’T, including my brown hubby who was badly abused growing up) then you want to help them out of love — so I agree with #33 Jinendra about feeling angry about limited options and such.
There’s a funny novel that came out a few years ago about an UK-based Indian doctor who sets up a retirement home for white Brits in India — These Foolish Things
Good topic and I appreciate it being discussed.
We see multiple generations of retirees and the various levels of assimilation among them. I know of several family members and friends that have brought their parents here to take care of the kids. That’s great at first, especially if the parents are not too old and are still in fairly good shape and are active. Otherwise, a child is not really enough social contact, especially with little other interaction for ~10 hours of the day and they can be tiring as well. In some cases these people (that brought their parents here) didn’t have much of a choice. The parents clearly couldn’t take care of themselves back in India either and live on their own. I’ve heard of some getting robbed and otherwise taken advantage of – especially in those situations where all children have emigrated.
I think many on this board are in my age group and are in a similar situation (DBD) – mid-to-late-twenties with parents nearing “retirement”. In my case, I can’t see my dad really ever stop working. It’s just not in him. My mom has always stayed at home. I have a sister and she’s been the more traditional one…But ultimately I’m sure either one would take them in when they came to a point where they couldn’t take care of themselves. Still, there is little doubt that for me it would be kind of tough, especially if I were to settle down with say, someone that cooked meat at home.
My family back in India was extended for many years. But I’ve seen the downsides of that as well. But that was mainly due to both my mother’s brothers staying in the same home and estate problems cropping up after my grandfather died.I don’t really know if either of my parents would like to settle in India again, though maybe they would like to. The dollar would certainly go much further and my aunts and uncles are there. Though, I’m guessing it would be tougher for them to leave my sister and I behind.
I like the idea of desi nursing homes or retirement communities, at least giving them a venue for social interaction with those of a similar background. Obviously most of our parents of my age group can speak English and are fairly well assimilated. This thread also reminded me of a random story. A family friend’s son had gone to a nursing home to sing and “cheer up” the seniors. It turns out there was a Desi grandmother there and she was extremely bitter. Apparently she had been dumped there. I can only imagine the frustration.
I m very much impressed by the way of discussion here. I love my parents and dont want to live isolate from them.I feel so happy to have them in my life. I know that when I get older, I will not give them a room in my house, but the best room in my home.
Thanks for raising this topic – it is something that tears the heart up a bit, even if we stick to our own consciences and needs. I think the thing is to be honest with one’s self and parents about what one can do – but easier said than done – eh? Especially when there are aspects that simply won’t be comprehended by one side or another.
Most of the people I know from my community, in which I am young, are from the 60s / 70s professional class migration and they tend to go to India for a few months and be in the States for a few months. Those that have gotten very ill haven’t necessarily been able to afford assisted living, as I found out from my mother this week, since she is making plans for assisted living for the future because she’s very responsible (or someone’s trying to con her). I used to suggest that she move to INdia, but that was quickly shot down – which raises other issues about the psychology of my parents’ generatino wrt to India and migration 🙂
Even the ones who have lost their partners have generally tended to stick it out alone or fallen really ill, except in the worst case scenarios, I think (sort of like the attitude towards mental health treatment – you don’t do routine work like therapy, but if you go ‘crazy’ then it’s okay but hush hush to see a psychiatrist – that wasn’t a good summary but hopefully you know what i mean).
Anyway, I think in addition to social communities that will allow them to hang out with each other, this issue ties into a much broader debate that is going on about the nature of care and health care in the United States. For example, I saw a facebook post yesterday that California is considering cutting DV services (I think to South Asians). Similarly, there are likely hundreds of thousands of South Asians who are NOT in a position to afford health care, let alone set aside money for assisted living.
Thanks again for posting on a topic close to my heart. It is a torturous idea to think of one’s life and the idea of being around a person that you love but would rather not live with. I think some of these ideas about duty overriding psychological realities or logistics are a recipe for disaster and I think my parents’ generation actually generally has a better grasp of that – being older and wiser 🙂 – than we do sometimes.
The Hindu perspective: Parent are my gods (Twameva mata cha pita twameva) & Annam Brahma -> Parents = Annam
DizzyDesi: Annam means food, not parents. If you want to quote Hindu scriptures to back up your beliefs, quote them correctly.
Therefore Annam Brahma – Food is God.
In Minnesota, when they built the Hindu Temple, they made plans for a residential community. Unfortunately, the temple has run into some money issues even paying off the temple, let alone starting a residential project. But it seems like a good plan! My only issue is that, with the Hindu temple next door, it will probably be a Hindu Indian community, instead of a mixed religious community, but that is my personal issue.
Maple Palayam Community fact sheet Plans Condominium information
(If those links don’t work, it’s at http://www.hindumandirmn.org/Home/Documents/tabid/65/Default.aspx)
My grandfather lived with me since I as 8, after my nani died. I loved it and I hated it. It put a strain on my family and limited what we could do, but how many people had their grandpa right there whenever they wanted? I guess it was different in that he wasn’t brought over to babysit us.
Oh also in Minnesota, they had a group called 55+ that my grandfather helped start. They would go on excursions or just gather at someone’s home. It was a nice network. Those who could drive would pick up those who couldn’t. They used to do things like play bridge. Ladies and men, both. Anyway, I think the group has died out as…well…as it’s members died out! My dad now qualifies, but I feel he won’t be doing a group like that.
A friend of mine’s mother actually lived in the Indian Care Nursing Home in NJ. She loved it, but my friend hated it. The situation required my friend’s mom to be in a nursing home, and she had been to a “regular” one before moving to the desi one. She hated the other one–the food, the nurses, the inability to communicate. But the desi nursing home had a lot of the same problems you would (unfortunately) expect with something so desi-run. It was dirty, the level of care wasn’t as high, the nurses were often unable to communicate with the patients (though they did make sure translation was available), she never got her medicine on time, trying to get a nurse to help with anything more than they were absolutely required to do was hell. It was great in theory, but in actual practice it didn’t work out so well. But I’ve got to say that the residents liked it, because they got to talk to people outside their immediate families and they were freed of any real responsibilities.
But bottom line is that the practice has a lot of kinks that need to be worked out, and I wouldn’t put my own parents in one.
You misread it. Annam = food. Brahmam = God
What I was doing was Parents = god (twameva mata… has been loosely interpreted as parents are gods) , food = god -> parents = food
(the soylent green reference) 🙂
As a DBD, I dislike the idea of putting grandparents and parents in nursing homes but I feel the NYT article and the posts above have a bias. They seem to portray people who put their parents or grandparents in nursing homes as selfish and cruel. Maybe all of you have very lovable grandparents but I don’t. My only living grandparent, my grandmother, never liked my mom and hence hates me as well. My dad made me spend all my summer vacations with her where my mother was treated like a servant (having to cook and clean) and I was called a greedy child for wanting to be taken out to the museum or a movie by my dad. My grandma put such a strain on my immediate family that my parents are separated and my dad lives with her. How do you think I should treat my grandmother and father when they cannot take care of themselves? Given how harshly many of these desi grandmas and grandpas treat their daughter in laws, can one still blame DILs and their children for grudging the presence of grandparents in the same house?
What an excellent article! It’s a burden for both sides of the fence. Elderly people have nowhere to go and their children are struggling to make it with full-time jobs, families and the added pressure of keeping up with tradition and taking care of their elderly parents. It may seem messed up, but a Nursing Home is probably a good idea for many families–of course, the guilt that comes along with it for the children might not be easy to bear.
http://www.pics.bc.ca/site/programs/housing.html
KesarPista, I see your point, but I think the assumption in the NYT article is that we are talking about normal families. As much as I criticized the average Indian family here for using their parents like cheap babysitters, I don’t hold it against families that give up on unreasonable older relatives. My father’s mother is not a very good person and she is suffering in India somewhere. I really do not lose any sleep over it. I have no sympathy for the intrusive in-laws in our community.
Also, I don’t think one is bad if one can’t find friends for your parents. What I want to see in our community is more effort. If your parents are too stubborn or your specific personal situation make our suggestions impractical, that is a different matter.
My mom spends time at our local senior center since she enjoys westernized entertainment and is learning more computer related work.
I do think the inflexibility of parents in some cases put the children in a bind. I can only suggest to get creative and nudge them slowly into taking more initiative.
DISH TV is not the only way to keep your parents entertained.(I am so glad my parents are easily entertained by our regular cable channels).
I agree with Kesarpista and Pravin. It is a hard life for the DIL’s once the in-laws come in. The kitchen is in operation almost 24-7 and the DIL is expected to dish out fresh food twice a day. In my experience with my In-laws, they don’t want to visit the senior center, expecially my MIL. Insipite of my dissaproval, dishtv was installed with the TV on all day long, and personally i dont think the Indian soaps and Bollywood movies are the best way to impart our culture into our kids. My children are distracted. With 2 income and no household help, it is impossible to maintain the same lifestyle that they had in their home country, here in US. There are a few shining examples here in the US. Some of the communities in New York areas where there are a sizable desi elders have made their senior centers more geared towards their needs. but there are some real cultural obstecles. Doing charity work like knitting booties for the local childerens hiospital, or running soup kitchens which are some typical senior center programs are not very popular with desi elders. Now that my In-Laws have returned they seem to be unhappy that India is no longer the way it was 20 years back. No one has the time to chit chat, every body wants you to call up before visiting and the older generation there is now actively involved in babysitting their Grand kids and has no time for other emply nesters with lots of time and no other active pre-occupations. the story is not very different in the urban areas in India. Life is fast paced and they are back to complaining about the traffic, pollutions, and non-responsive relatives. the story has come a full circle.
Regarding nursing homes, what the community needs to look into is a hybrid of nursing homes and day care centers that is affordable to the middle class. Keep in mind that we do not have servants/maids to take care of elderly parents. So nursing homes would be the only real option for those who have special healthcare needs.
I think Indian families need to realize the elderly Indians are all individuals. ONe old person may be perfectly content with reading some religious book in the day time and praying and waiting for their kids to arrive. But there are many others who have this need to be social. Back in India, they are used to interacting with neighbors, vegetable sellers, other vendors who come home, the maids, family. Plus don’t discount the ambient noise they are used to back in India.
This reminds me of how my grandmother stayed with us when I was a teenager and was home alone almost all day, watching TV or reading. She was better off when she was living by herself in Hyderabad or with my uncle’s (small nuclear, but big not-blood-related-extended) family in Vijayawada. I was such an ungrateful little brat too, and now she’s gone.
My grandmother wasn’t here as a baby-sitter, she was here because she and my mother were super-close and had lived together most of my mother’s life. My mother tried to take her places on the weekends, introduce her to people, etc. … but it’s hard when you live in a place with a lot of snow. I think that’s one of the biggest obstacles to grandparents getting out and about, after the urban sprawl layout.
This was such a beautifully-written post btw.
You have clearly identified a need that has largely gone unmet. I am personally aware of one assisted living facility in Laurel, Maryland that is run by desi couple. We were looking all over for an assisted living facility facility that would provide memory care and vegetarian food (preferably Indian) in the Baltimore-Washington metro area. We discovered Shanthi Home at 6406 Old Sandy Spring Road, Laurel, MD 20707 (301) 758-0991 voice and (301) 725-4171 fax. It is a relatively small facility. We admitted a relative of ours and she received really caring attention till she passed away. What made the experience even better was that this facility has arrangements with desi physicians and specialists on call. Desi food is no problem. We need many more facilities like this.
I am glad we are bringing both sides to the discussion. While kids are expected to show love and respect towards ailing parents, there are a number of minor and major issues that seem to crop up in living with South Asian parents in particular that makes living with them exceedingly difficult: -> In my own life and countless others around me, the PILs have never treated the DIL with any doze of reality or respect. What the MIL went through her days with her own MIL is the kind of treatment she gives out the the DIL: expecting to cook and clean, not ok with heated up frozen foods, super competitive while working in kitchen (as an example, I am an investment manager with very busy hours. When my MIL is visiting, she does not enter the kitchen unless I am there, leaves all the dirty work-cutting, cleaning, dishes to me, while she moves the pan around for a bit, and expects me to be in the kitchen 1 hr in the morning, 2 hrs in the evening when I return). When the PILs expectations are not met, they often turn to emotionally harassing the son, including stories of how much he has changed since marriage -> Dish TV: watching incessant and mindless Indian soaps does change the home environment, and again feeds these complexes in the minds of PILs that the dynamic of the home has changed since the arrival of the DIL. In my case, I live in an apartment building with thin walls, and feel embarrassed when PILs play Anuradha Paudwal bhajans on full volume to wake up to every morning. I’ve tried telling them about it once, and received a shocked response “this is our culture” etc etc -> “Norms”: Most desi PILs continue to believe it is them who should set the norms in the family, given their elderly status: everything from teaching kids to call each other didi-bhaiya (something I disagree with) to the types of clothes the DIL should be wearing
About baby-sitting: In two recent examples, my expecting friends have told me that they have moved to another city, do not want baby-sitting help as it increases work rather than decreasing it, for them.
My MIL goes to volunteer at local desi old-age home (yes one does exist!) and has really sad stories to tell of parents left by their (in many cases, super-rich) kids, alone in their old-age. I hate to hear these, and I hope to God this never becomes a reality for either my or my husband’s parents. But I just wish for one thing: if only there was a class to teach the parents on how to co-exist peacefully w their kids w/o overwhelming them with mindless expectations, to tell them the world has indeed moved on since their time in the kitchen w their in-laws, and how even females these days do important work beyond the household chores! Alas, these ideal situations are rare and far in-between