Allow me to preempt someone from asking why I chose to write this story. No, really, let’s get it out of the way, this nimisham:
• Did this really have to be blogged?
• Slow news day?
• Aren’t X,Y and Q more important?
• And furthermore, doesn’t your lack of blogging X,Y and Q indicate that you are a heartless bitch who doesn’t care about Pakistan/the Nuke Deal/the environment/immigration??
Yes,
maybe,
perhaps and
refer to my finger, for that last one. It’s an extra-challenging week at work, so I can’t write anything dazzling, not that the performances which I usually phone in are sublime. I don’t have much time, but when something’s on my mind, it’s easier (read: cathartic) to type, so a “Musings†post it shall be.
Unless you were the last person to be found during hide and seek yesterday, you have heard the cringe-inducing-on-so-many-levels news about an Indian man “marrying†a dog (thanks, Aggiebabe). It is somewhat like the whole “Aish weds trees…twiceâ€-fiasco…except in TMBWITW’s case, she was doing it to compensate for her apparently unfortunate nakshatram and not because she had killed two trees.
An Indian man has “married” a female dog, hoping the move will help atone for stoning two other dogs to death.
P Selvakumar, 33, said he had been cursed since the killings, suffering paralysis and a loss of hearing.
The wedding took place at a Hindu temple in Tamil Nadu state. The “bride” wore an orange sari with a flower garland and was fed a bun to celebrate.
Superstitious people in rural India sometimes organise weddings to animals in the hope of warding off curses.[BBC]
Buried among the hundreds of jokes which punsters are giddily guffawing over (enjoy your free pass to bitch about how the bride is a bitch…but more on that later) is to me the most appalling aspect of this story; this man killed two innocent, defenseless creatures.
I didn’t know how he killed them until I settled in to my seat on the subway this morning and found out that he had stoned them. That detail bothered me so much, because my imagination doesn’t need any assistance in recreating actual events. Have you ever seen an animal cowering in front of a human? Yelping and whimpering out of fear and pain? It’s heartbreaking, but that’s what this so-called man saw, as he brutally stoned two dogs. I remember the way our late German Shepherds looked terrified and anxious, when they were merely being scolded…and that was after they had committed capital offenses, like uprooting our only curry leaf plant.These dogs must have been perplexed as to why they were being hunted down by this sadist. The whole crime makes that red, squishy thing in the middle of my chest ache a little bit. Achtung, it’s lame that I have to assert this, but I’m not some granola-lite, bleeding heart Aggie who puts the welfare of puppies over people—no, I’m someone who, like most of you, is well aware of the connection between perpetrating violence against animals and committing it on humans.
Many studies in psychology, sociology, and criminology during the last 25 years have demonstrated that violent offenders frequently have childhood and adolescent histories of serious and repeated animal cruelty. The FBI has recognized the connection since the 1970s, when its analysis of the lives of serial killers suggested that most had killed or tortured animals as children. Other research has shown consistent patterns of animal cruelty among perpetrators of more common forms of violence, including child abuse, spouse abuse, and elder abuse. In fact, the American Psychiatric Association considers animal cruelty one of the diagnostic criteria of conduct disorder. [woof]
Dogs and cats are simple, available targets, and practice makes perfect, if the definition of perfection involves torture and murder. What else has this person done? And to whom? And I recognize that I was born here, in the first world, that I am privileged because of that and thus view this news story through my very American eyes, but at least I’m aware of this heinous flaw o’ mine. At least I am ashamed that I have this privilege to be bothered by what some consider a triviality.
But he killed two dogs. That’s all my mind returns, when I pause between Outlook storms. Maybe I should add the Humane Society to my slowly-expanding list of Causes on Facebook, since I’m obsessed with this. And dogs in general (and this cat, but she’s the exception which proves the rule).
Back to our story- after slaying two canines, the groom lost his hearing and according to most stories I’ve read, became paralyzed. Obviously this is divine retribution for being such a flaming merde-bag, oui? Oui. How could one fix this? But of course! Have him marry a dog! Easy atonement, even as such atoning is gleefully retold the world over, ensuring that some desi kid at a less progressive, less diverse school– like the ones I went to– will be having a GREAT recess and lunch period.
Crowds cheered the newly-weds at the end of the ceremony in Sivaganga district, about 50km (30 miles) east of the city of Madurai.
The “bride”, who is called Selvi, was led to the temple in Manamudurai wearing a sari before vows were exchanged in a traditional Hindu ceremony.
A relative of the groom who attended the wedding said he hoped Mr Selvakumar would now be cured.
“Fifteen years back Selvakumar was physically fit. But, once he attacked a pair of dogs and thereafter Kumar could not move his limbs freely,” the relative, Ramu, told the BBC.
“He tried every cure for his ailment but could not be rid of his disability.
“On the advice of an astrologer and others, he decided to marry a bitch to get cured. Then we arranged Selvakumar’s marriage with a bitch.” [BBC]
Who is going to look after that bitch and protect her from abuse–no, I don’t want to get in the possibilities– or is the prevailing assumption that he’s learned his lesson and now will behave? Speaking of “bitchâ€, that is the final snag on my mental stockings—the B word. Is “bitch†commonly-used in India? Does it have the same connotations? Yes, it’s an even more trivial triviality, atop that other triviality, i.e. my soft shpot for dogs.
This entire story leaves me feeling weird and I don’t feel like I have the “privilege†to explore one of the other aspects of it, which is bothering me- religion. I don’t know enough about Hinduism and though I eat like one, I’m certainly not Hindu. What does this story tell the world (or us, or martians, or…) about religion and what we are willing to tolerate within it?
Then again, maybe there’s some weird Christian tradition that makes even less sense to some girl in Madurai*, I don’t know. Maybe she’s not even thinking of such things. Maybe she’s already rolled her eyes, written this off as mega-superstitiousness which has nothing to do with her or the life she leads, and moved on. I wish I could shake this or make sense of the maelstrom this story evoked within, as easily.
*the closest city to where this happened, I think.
Yes, that’s true.
well you might make an atheist of me yet 🙂
then again, i’m a weirdo who believes somewhat in both intelligent design and hindutva (the latter much less so and in only a few concepts, and i don’t think either belong in science class)
I was watching Tucker[Carlson] on MSNBC on Tuesday and they talked about this story for about 2 minutes right after talking about all the things going on Pakistan. And they even compared the 2 stories and talking about how different the 2 countries are.
Indian laws on animal cruelty and strays
Anybody talked about the recent Giullermo Vargas exhibit in Nicaragua yet?
Meh. Here is a better version of that story.
The dog’s happy, the man’s happy. Win-win, no? In case you think dressing a dog up in a sari is pointless, illogical dogma(No pun intended) Check this out.
http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=51267269&epmid=3&partner=Google
then again, i’m a weirdo who believes somewhat in both intelligent design and hindutva (the latter much less so and in only a few concepts, and i don’t think either belong in science class)
You might be interested in watching this absolutely riveting documentary on Intelligent Design/Dover trial at PBS. I had a lawgasm while watching the show.
I am sure I am missing something here. Pray tell me, how do Hindus eat ? 🙂
Hey, were the man and the dog of the same caste?
Nice, sars–thanks for the early morning grin. Razib, re your post 111, sorry I’m a little confused. It seems to me that you are saying on the one hand that we can expect more of these types of actions in India due to its sheer numbers and diversity, but on the other hand there is a global homogenization movement which will also impact or is also impacting India and will therefore make this less likely. So there appears to be a contradiction. Are you saying that as a result of this homogenization movement we will start to see more and more of these stories because there will still be enough people/subcultures in India exercising their own unique practices and providing the new global monoculture with fodder? I think I’m missing something so I was woundering if you could clarify. Sorry for the denseness.
I think she is referring to her vegetarian habits ( though more than 70-80% of all Hindus are non-vegetarians..)
Some folks simply cannot fathom the diversity of beliefs and practices in Hinduism. And what they cannot understand, they hate.
M. Nam
I’m wondering if the dog consented to the marriage.
I don’t even wanna know what they did on their honeymoon…
I’m wondering if the billions of chicken, tens of millions of cattle, turkey, goat etc etc that have been killed for meat consented to their slaughter.
Gave the phrase doggie-style a whole new meaning.
M. Nam
ANNA’s post: “This entire story leaves me feeling weird and I don’t feel like I have the “privilege†to explore one of the other aspects of it, which is bothering me- religion. I don’t know enough about Hinduism and though I eat like one, I’m certainly not Hindu. What does this story tell the world (or us, or martians, or…) about religion and what we are willing to tolerate within it?”
Superstitions of this order are not about religion. They are about poverty and ignorance. Hinduism seems to spawn more than its fair share of Ripley’s Believe it or Not type stories just because it happens to be the religion of almost 700 million very poor and uneducated people. (The figure excludes the middle-class and higher socioeconomic demographic segments.)
I would wager that any religion, given a subscriber base of 700 million people who a)can barely read or write, and b)have an average annual income of $700, will exhibit “religious” practices that would be equally bizarre by common global standards. One only has to compare the properly suburbanized version of Hinduism practiced in the temples across North America with the intense, sometimes appalling, quasi-Hindu practices on the streets of India. The differentiating factor is not the religion but obviously the demographics.
That’s why, ANNA, the Hindu in me was not the least bit embarrassed by this story. The human in me was.
Razib’s comment #113 on global trends and #148 regarding macrosocial forces identify the external drivers of religion very well. At least that’s how I understood his comments, though lately I am having to really strain myself to understand razib. Either he has grown even wiser (not possible) or I am getting even older.
I am afraid that in the 1940s, when I was a young boy in Secunderabad, it was not uncommon for a group of boys to stone a lizard helplessly shifting about on a wall or tree to death. Though not an enthusiatic participant, it did not occur to me to protest. No one suggested atonement, perhaps because nothing obviously dire happened to the boys. For the sake of context, one should point out that in Christian countries some derive pleasure from torturing a cat or dog to death. Edgar Allan Poe, a specialist in unusual feelings, wrote a complex story about a man who perversely kills a black cat. In the ancient Laws of Manu, the consequences of various trangressions, such as killing animals, are set out in the context of caste.
ROFL.. look at this video showing the actual wedding from BBC.
People were laughing and clapping hands.. People were treating this as a fun event.
I have used my puppy to pick up chicks but this is on a whole another level…
This couple should be celebrated, not laughed at. Their union is not only breaking inter-caste taboos but inter-species taboos as well. A hundred years from now our ancestors will look at us and remark about how intolerant and specist we were.
From youtube..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf9Ffdo3ZfE
NYT – will this guy have to marry a cat?
This is so weird – the ITN piece on youtube which Ponniyin Selvan linked above carries the interview of Ramu the Relative, in which his statement is translated as, “But, once he attacked a pair of dogs mating and thereafter Kumar could not move his limbs freely…”
The BBC article quoted in Anna’s post has that same quotation, but leaves out the word mating – what’s up with that?
I dont think people in America would think this is that wierd.
I had to give candy to a dog dressed up as a little red riding hood when the dog came to my door for Halloween.
Did anyone notice how adorable this dog looks dressed up in a chuni? I look at it and smile.
1) I wondered the same thing. I’d expect an American media outlet to be more lame about sex.
2) First, what? In “Hindu” contries some derive pleasure from eating butter-laden, excessively sugary sweets. What do such statements even mean, or prove?
One of the reasons why I get despondent and choose NOT to write about certain stories that interest me, is that despite my attempts to be excruciatingly balanced, sensitive and humble about my desire to learn more/my lack of knowledge about, well, almost everything, people are going to feel defensive and point out that somehow Christians or Americans or _ are just as bad, because of ___. I didn’t write this in order to indicate that I thought Hinduism was weird. I have no problem with the diversity of Hinduism and I’m not hating. I was more interested in how others felt about this, with regards to animal rights, justice, religion.
3) Floridian, you are one of my favorite commenters. Thank you for always gently chiming in. 🙂
4) Ponniyin Selvan was right. 🙂 My vegetarian diet falls somewhere between TamBrahm and Jain. The latter because I dislike onions, intensely. 😉 And yes, I know, the majority of Hindus are apparently non-veg (sigh), but to my Christian relatives, my diet (and a bunch of other bizarre things which my family does) is REALLY Hindu. Also, don’t some airlines use “Hindu meal†interchangeably with “vegetarianâ€? No offense intended, in case all of this didn’t convey that. 🙂
5) No need to stand, please sit down. I love all dogs, pure-bred or not. My friend was trying to say that I grew up in a milieu wherein dogs were happy, tail-wagging PETS. In Madras, were he grew up, they were both pets AND strays; he was trying to explain that I’ve never experienced that environment, where dogs roam about, are potentially unfriendly (for good reason, when one considers the crime which triggered the chain of events which culminated in the wedding above). For the record, I love all dogs and when I FINALLY get to have one again, I will try and go the “rescue†route. I know there are probably sweet strays, too. That was my friend’s point—that I wasn’t considering that there exist dogs who AREN’T perfect. 😉
6) Please see my second response. I’m saddened by the tit-for-tat stuff. I’m also confused. I am a hard-core Christian and I’m against factory farms. I also don’t know what they have to do with this story. If a priest told an animal-abuser that he had to marry his dog, I’d be less perplexed. I’m not trying in any way to say that there’s an innate tendency towards ANYTHING in Hinduism. I stated very clearly in my post that I don’t know enough about Hinduism, so how could I assert such a thing?
7) Thank you so much for this comment. 🙂
8) Wait…they don’t? 🙁 That’s a shame, because it’s such a great visual! I always picture them wearing a fedora, jauntily tipped to the side…
Floridian, interesting comment at #166. By the way, you were also paged on another thread back here. It has moved on a bit, but you can still come in!
And this has been, on balance, so far, a very interesting thread, so thanks to everyone, especially Anna for blogging it. I’m certainly learning about new viewpoints and perspectives.
Clueless, thanks for pointing this out, I anticipated someone would bring that angle up, just not Tucker Carlson.
Reading many of the above comments it appears that (a) The “marriage” per se doesn’t bother the Hindus since it can be wished off as an aberration/exception (b) What bothers most is the fact that Hinduism will be looked down as weird by non-hindus, westerners etc. Hindus have to work for shedding some of the weird/irrational/superstitious things they do under the name of religion but at the same time they should also have the following attitude : Do I care – No ? Will I go around feeling apologetic for it – No ? Will I convert to another religion just because some fool – No or maybe it is my personal decision.
But a legitimate scientific question to ask is when is a harmless ritual a cultural “asset” and when is it an irrational “poison”. This is because just as this marriage incident one can point to many other rituals like Karwa-Chauth, Manglik pre-marriage cermonies ( Aishwarya-tree ) etc. which many Hindus do in spite of being educated etc.
But all this debate is useless because science and rationalism is many a times not compatible with religion and culture.
It reminds of the documentary I saw sometime back where this girl from Punjab went thru some kind of a wedding ceremony to a framed photo of an Indo-Canadian. Apparently the guy was unable to make in time. The whole thing was odd with her parents and all the relatives watching and nobody questioning the validity of the whole thing.
To add a little nuance, it doesn’t make sense to lump all non-vegetarians in the same group when looking at it from the lens of ecological impact, resources used and energy spent. Someone who eats meat once a week has proportionally less impact and a smaller eco-footprint than someone who does the same 4-7 times a week, all other things being equal. We can also compare the meat-producing system in both countries and see how they stack up when it comes to pollution, fecal lagoons, use of antibiotics, treatment of animals (though in both cases, they end up dead) etc. or whether the meat came from a farm like Polyface.
Oh, and whether vegetarians or not, we’re all in this together. 🙂
For God’s sake people, the person marrying the dog is obviously illiterate and poor…..But what is your excuse? I am asking the privileged and educated “believers” out there who despite an overwhelming lack of evidence, believe in god, religion and the attendant mumbo jumbo.
If marrying a dog is ridiculous, is it any less ridiculous when seemingly intelligent people live life in accordance with a book/s written by various tribes over a millenium? Isn’t it risible when some people who won’t shut up about how tolerant they are also swear by a book, which explicitly states that those who do not subscribe to the book’s tenets will surely go to hell…and, get this, there will be no blogs in hell. Who is a bigger fool, I ask you, oh great Sepia tribe, an illiterate peasant who marries a dog, or the educated person who believes that, two thousand years ago, a human being was born of a virgin, resurrected from the dead, and will come back to earth any day now to sort out the naughty from nice, so his dad may mete out punishment to those who refused to play with little JC. Or, for that matter, the person who believes that a monkey can fly across the palk strait, or that a 6th century desert dweller was flown to heaven on a winged she horse?
Looketh in the mirror, before thee laugheth at the poor, for those are my peeps, who shalleth inheriteth the earth.
My excuse for what? For what I believe in? Which I don’t shove down your or anyone else’s throat?
The only thing I condemned him for was slaughtering two innocent animals. I don’t look down on him.
What’s your excuse for using this as an opportunity to flame me/this blog in a not-so-sly way? If we’re so worthy of derision, why are you here?
I don’t think so. British Airways provides “Hindu meal” which means no beef / no pork, but they provide chicken and mutton (lamb) dishes as part of “Hindu” meal. I’m not aware of any other airlines that equates “Hindu” with “vegetarian”.
If you spoke so dismissively or nastily about Hinduism or Islam there’d be hell to pay. But hey, you’re slamming Christianity, which isn’t really desi, so it’s all good, right? I guess this is where I turn the other cheek and don’t respond to your name-calling, especially since your calling me a fool is probably less mean than what I would call you, if we were face to face.
Pravin, this is why I wrote what I did, how I did.
anna – i am not only slamming christainity, but all “believers”. witness – “Or, for that matter, the person who believes that a monkey can fly across the palk strait, or that a 6th century desert dweller was flown to heaven on a winged she horse?” monkey = ramayan desert dweller = muhammad.
and as for your query, “What’s your excuse for using this as an opportunity to flame me/this blog in a not-so-sly way? If we’re so worthy of derision, why are you here?”
i come here because a significant majority of posts and comments here are quite enlightening, and i am not too proud to admit that, some posts/comments, like amardeep’s guha series, have even influenced/changed my thinking for the better.
Here you go, complete with a fedora jauntily tipped to the side.. 🙂
Are you saying that as a result of this homogenization movement we will start to see more and more of these stories because there will still be enough people/subcultures in India exercising their own unique practices and providing the new global monoculture with fodder? I think I’m missing something so I was woundering if you could clarify.
yes. societies in transition are the ones which go through these sorts of tensions. as more and more people have one normative set of beliefs and practices the large residual who still exhibit older localized traditions will seem more and more transgressive, and more newsworthy.
Bulbul, marriage by proxy and what you are describing is not Hindu ritual or some Indian peculiarity. It’s recognized in the West and is performed by people of various faiths. Sometimes people in jail or away on military service. Nothing to see here people move along
napoleon married the austrian emperor’s daughter via proxy.
I thought India just introduced the marriage licence, or has that still not been implemented?
I thought India just introduced the marriage licence, or has that still not been implemented?
Marriage license has always been there** (for civil marriages), now, they (Government Of India) wants everyone to have a formal one, irrespective of style of ceremony.
** That is often used for official purposes, like visa, passport, etc.
cheers Kush, It’s a good thing, stop loads of nonsense from going on.
Nafar, I won’t explain why I felt like you were being “meaner” to Christianity than Hinduism or Islam (I did get the refs), because it’s not productive. I apologize for getting so upset and thank you for responding in such a calm manner. I’m glad you like the site.
Im tempeted to burst into the song
And they called it puppy love Oh i guess they’ll never know how a young heart really feels and just why i love her so and they called it puppy love
Now seriously there was comment on the BBC website that makes all the sense “Superstitious people in rural India sometimes organise weddings to animals in the hope of warding off curses.”
Lets face it Ash married a tree!
Didnt Jesus cure a man by sending the demon from him into a swine. Jesus used superstition to make people believe that a demon was placed in a swine. Naturally everyone believed him.
Makes pretty good sense to me.
“No need to stand, please sit down. I love all dogs, pure-bred or not. … That was my friend’s point—that I wasn’t considering that there exist dogs who AREN’T perfect. ;)”
just to clarify, i wasn’t implying that you show favoritism to pure breeds. but many people do, and perhaps i misinterpreted how your friend meant the difference. i thought he was implying that all pets (owned dogs) are “nice” and roaming strays are more than likely not to be. i think it all depends on the owner and how they want the dog to be. i’ve never been bitten by a stray, but i have been by owned dogs.
“Hindus have to work for shedding some of the weird/irrational/superstitious things they do under the name of religion but at the same time they should also have the following attitude”
True, but I challenge any Hindu on this board to give me a correct picture of “Hinduism.” From my perspective, it looks like an incoherent mish mash of Vaishnavism, Saivism, monotheism, polytheism, animism, and some elements of Vedanta, Samkhya, Buddhism, and Jainism. What purpose does “Hinduism” really serve at this point?
From my perspective, it looks like an incoherent mish mash of Vaishnavism, Saivism, monotheism, polytheism, animism, and some elements of Vedanta, Samkhya, Buddhism, and Jainism. What purpose does “Hinduism” really serve at this point?
that is true to some extent of all religions. i’ll give you an example, a muslim contributor to this blog mentioned that they would never display an image of the prophet in their house, perhaps because they were “orthodox.” another poster pointed out that that is orthodoxy if you define orthodoxy as sunnism, since the shia do depict muhammad and ali and what not. the point is that from the perspective of a jew, muslim and christian their religion may mean x,y and z, but their perception of homogeneity is in part due to their own narrow circles and reference point. the assimilation of local religious traditions isn’t limited to hinduism, you see it in javanese traditional islam (where the goddess of the southern sea looms large) or in indigenous latin american catholicism (where local pagan traditions have been thoroughly christianized).
as for what the point of using these labels is. well, how are you going to figure who to kill when you riot if you don’t have labels? that’s crassly put, but i think it gets the gist across.
PingPong @ 131, thanks for this public service, I’m sure we were all dying to post these, especially the doggy style one. You forgot the one about who puts who in the doghouse when they mess up. 🙂
So, are we all set to conduct mass marriages in Puerto Rico? I’m ready when you are.
RTC, I believe that anyone who follows a path of righteousness and not at the expense of others is a Hindu. The dharma became an “ism” the moment the elders of the tribe were threatened by perceived/real threats from Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and so forth. It’s a well-known human trait to distort or kill something in order to save it.
As for the dog marriage, perhaps the guy is dyslexic and thought he was marrying god. (Ba-dum-bum). Seriously, self-imposed karma came into play; at least, the guy knows what he did was wrong and is trying to atone for his horrible treatment of dogs in the past and didn’t become a serial killer.
Isn’t that dog cute? Does she have a sister?