For wine makers and distributors, India is virgin terrain ripe for the plucking (to mix metaphors). Although wine arrived with the Persians around two millenia ago, wine drinking was never popular or widespread.
What little wine production there was got crushed by the phylloxera epidemic of the late 1800s, and hit further hurdles at Independence when many states went dry. The constitution of India itself used to state that “one of the government’s aims was the total prohibition of alcohol” [wiki]
Fast forward to the present, when wine drinking is being pitched heavily to the urban intelligencia, especially younger women:
Bhagwat is single and lives in Bangalore. On a recent trip to her parents’ home in the conservative Chhattisgarh in central India, she sipped wine while her father drank scotch and soda. Her mother, she recounts, looked on silently. “Wine is the only drink I can have without offending the family elders,” she said. [link]
Wine drinking is still at fairly low levels compared to Europe or the US, with average consumption under a bottle a year and large areas of the country where wine isn’t drunk at all [link], although it is increasing at around 20% a year.
Right now there are around 40 wineries in India with around 3,000 acres under cultivation. My advice to them? Invest more in marketing and less in “quality”: wine drinkers are highly suggestible and the “wine experience” is all hype. Why should they listen to a non-drinker? Because I have science on my side:
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p> In two experiments done by Frederic Brochet, of the University of Bordeaux, wine experts were fooled into thinking that white wine with red food coloring was red wine and judged the same wine entirely differently based on the label on the bottle and price tag:
In the first test, Brochet invited 57 wine experts and asked them to give their impressions of what looked like two glasses of red and white wine. The wines were actually the same white wine, one of which had been tinted red with food coloring. But that didn’t stop the experts from describing the “red” wine in language typically used to describe red wines. One expert praised its “jamminess,” while another enjoyed its “crushed red fruit.” Not a single one noticed it was actually a white wine.The second test Brochet conducted was even more damning. He took a middling Bordeaux and served it in two different bottles. One bottle was a fancy grand-cru. The other bottle was an ordinary vin du table. Despite the fact that they were actually being served the exact same wine, the experts gave the differently labeled bottles nearly opposite ratings. The grand cru was “agreeable, woody, complex, balanced and rounded,” while the vin du table was “weak, short, light, flat and faulty”. [link]
I’m not saying there are no differences between wines, I wouldn’t know I’ve never had any. I am saying that the science shows that even for experts (in France!) the differences are tiny and easily crushed by their expectations. Buy really fancy bottles. Win lots of irrelevant competitions. Get endorsements. Serve your wine in blind taste tests where you have a chance of winning something by chance alone. At the end of the day, it’s not about the grapes, it’s about the marketing.
I did a little wine tasting on my last trip to India, and I found two problems (1) a lot of places serving wine or distributing wine in India don’t keep the wine properly and given India’s high temperatures, many a decent bottle of wine is damaged, and (2) wow, is the wine silty! Marketing won’t solve (1) or (2).
That wasn’t Dr. Brochet’s conclusion. He concluded that connoisseurs have too much cultural baggage by virtue of their profession to properly pay attention to “the taste in their mouths.” In contrast the occasional wine drinkers were often able to tell that something was off.
The paper was asserting that the professional tasters are frauds, not that there is no difference between taste in wines. The validity of the experiment rests upon the fact that there are, in fact, different.
I am surprised there are so many wineries operating in India though. I have been told that tropical weather usually isn’t good for the grapes. Supposedly, without seasons the grapes mature at inconsistent rates so a given batch will have grapes at various stages of ripeness in it. Typically not good if you plan to have any control over how the end product tastes.
Nothing is funnier than listening to yuppies talk about wine. Once their pay check is at a certain point a miracle takes place where all of the sudden their palate is as sensitive as a sharks nose.
Ah, that is what upset muthalik then?
In other words, they were highly suggestible. While other wine drinkers can tell white from red (I can smell the difference), they’re really bad at picking “quality” in blind taste tests.
This is what Jonah Lehrer says about these experiments:
For him it’s not about the experts being different, it’s about them being just as gullible as anybody else.
vancouver’s vij reminisces about a desi vinery on his visit to videsh.
i vonder if bhagwat’s ever dined with anyone in a dhoti kurta. vy is everyone so damn veepy. be happy, it’s summer. you should be sowing oats. not getting the desi flat butt sitting at the computer. to take vij’s cue, vat i vant for my eightieth is sarson da saag, a sula, and a buxom pind vench to squish grapes.
Don’t you mean on his visit to desh? I guess though if he’s from videsh, desh would then become videsh to him.
The last thing India needs right now is more drunks.
Yuppies? You probably mean puppies, woopies or guppies
Why does India need wine? Is wine making capabilities the new standard to which countries will be judged?
What India really needs to concentrate on is weed. It is going to be legalized sooner or later and India’s fields are perfect for the industry.
Anyone ever been to a field in Punjab? There are weed plants just sitting there waiting to be turned into a valubale commodity.
Not to worry. It already has been made into a valuable commodity – long ago.
And…. its legal. I mean technically it might be illegal in India, but nobody gets harrassed for smoking weed in India – even in public. OK – maybe a few foreigners do, for a bribe. Otherwise Indian men, “sadhus”, smoke weed openly everywhere in India.
Holi season always sees an upswing in the ganja industry. Its alive and kickin’ in India.
If India is going to be getting into the intoxicants thing, I’d be really curious to try “soma.”
It’s a shame nobody knows what it is anymore.
Didn’t you know? The only appropriate way to judge a country is by how thoroughly it apes American/Western European mores. Has the memo not circulated around?
Well, in countries that drink a lot of wine as part of their culture, such as Italy, isn’t it a fact that they have lower rates of alcoholism, drunk driving and drunken brawls? I’ve always heard the argument that where children grow up drinking wine as a normal part of their home life, in the company of their elders over dinner or whatever, that they grow up with a healthier relationship with alcohol. Is this true?
“If India is going to be getting into the intoxicants thing, I’d be really curious to try “soma.”
It’s a shame nobody knows what it is anymore.”
Soma is Jizz.
Actually there is a perfectly local intoxicant waiting to be exploited and marketed to the hoity-toity, if one is interested in promoting the local varieties. It is called Panam Kallu in Tamil and Fenny in Konkani and also ‘saarayam’ (Tamil), called arrack in Indian English. The Sri Lankans have been much more enterprising in marketing this than the Indians, since drinking has had such a bad rap in India for a few centuries now.
As someone formally in the wine industry in the US and India, I will agree with the general notion that marketing plays a HUGE part in a winery or specific wine’s success, as all consumers and experts in most industries are suseptable to suggestion. However, have you every taken advice from a friend, or even food critic to try a specific dish or cuisine just to find out you think the food sucks? The same does in fact happen in the wine industry with experts giving ratings out of 100 (Robert Parker) or even the mere suggestion of a store clerk will have MOST consumers believe what they are drinking is great wine when it may not be, where SOME consumer’s definitely will be able to notice a difference and are likely not to buy that product again.
Thus at the end of the day, I would say it is MOSTLY about marketing, and LESS about the grapes- again speaking as a witness to wine consumer behavior.
In addition, there are tons of stories on how “wine experts” and food critics have been stumped. When you have tasted literally thousands of wines all across the quality spectrum, your instinct isn’t going to be question the validity of the tasting when you taste an white wine colored red. The “experts” may not think it is particularly good wine with the characteristics that would be common of the given varietal, but still recognize it as a decent wine.
Sharad Pawar had plans to sell Vine from the grocery super markets, not sure what happened to the plan.
Haha, that and fine dining. I’m happy putting my pay check toward future time off, travel, and the occasional pani puri, rather than $35 salads (with more descriptive words than sustaining calories) and “paired” grape juice.
Great if Indian wineries can prosper and export, but I would think it a tragic sellout if Indian society buys into this faux-eletist scam called wine.
As a brown American wino, I doubt that India’s climate can sustain a proper, quality wine industry. I’ve tried Indian wine before, and it’s disgusting — not properly stored, very corked/sour flavor. And what’s wrong with enjoying and drinking wine? Maybe I’m just bougie, but I’d like to know what’s up with all the anti-wine sentiment.
The constitution of India itself used to state that “one of the government’s aims was the total prohibition of alcoholâ€
Yeah right, very realistic goal. Tamil uses the same word (kudimagan) to mean both “citizen” and “drunkard”.
I would question the validity of the “study” cited. I would agree that it is hard to distinguish between shades of reasonably good wine but it is certainly not hard (even for a middle of the raod wine drinker) to distinguish a bad wine from a good wine.
drunkard is kudikaaran. nobody uses kudimagan for drunk.
while most people stick to beer, red wine and north indian food really go. many years ago the sommelier at tamirind in union sq (NYC) matched some lamb dishes (the popular tandoori chops supersized to fred flintstone portions and some vindaloo) with a slightly chilled red zinfandel. it worked. really transforms indian food.
idlis and dosa are still in beer terrirory though. maybe i’ll try em with some chilled tequila. never know.
this could be the next big thing in india. adds genuine value and is a big status symbol. just what we need.
I agree, about the marketing part. Slap a description next to a crappy wine, e.g. this one which I just picked off google, ” Rich & fruity, underpinned by a generous amount of smoky oak; nice structured tannins penetrating ripe cherry nuances. Double Gold Medal”, and people will pick it up for 20 bucks.
Personally, I like wine, but I hate the pretentiousness that goes along with drinking wine. Personally, I believe that: 1. It doesn’t matter what kind of cup you use to drink your wine. A clean, plastic cup is just as good as a crystal glass. 2. There is a LOT of overlap between different reds. Another words, it’s possible to drink a Pinot Noir and it could taste very, very similar to a Zinfandel from another brand.
3. I used to like Malbec wines, but I bought a $4.99/bottle of a Malbec from Trader Joes, and I was horribly disappointed. So, just because you like the grape variety, it doesn’t matter at all!!! I learned that it’s NOT POSSIBLE TO ENJOY A VARIETAL OF GRAPES, but instead a price-range. Why? Because I like some bottles of Malbec, but not all bottles. The same goes for Pinot Noir and others. 4. You CAN FRIGERATE RED WINES for several days without the wines losing quality.
Aside from absolute plonk, I’m in agreement that it’s largely marketing. Getting too fussy about/”into” wine is, broadly speaking, a betrayal of hopelessly middle-class insecurity. See Paul Fussell, Class: A Guide Through the American Status System.
increasing wine consumption (especially reds) in India might offset rising rates of heart disease etc in the middle+ classes.
I love some Tamil humor!
I second Radhika. What’s with all the hating on wine drinkers? There’s a lot of space between the average person who likes a nice glass of wine and a person who discusses the ripe red berries and jammy finish or whatever. Drinking wine is not “elitist.” I could understand that attitude when wine in the US was very expensive compared to beer, but now with our homegrown wine industry, it is really affordable. Try some California wines. Or even Columbia Valley wines.
Did anyone else think of this
When they read this
i wonder if these people who poke fun at the aspirational middle class eschew their snifters of cognac and their precious johnny walker black or their 50 year old scotch with the smell of oak, or reserve similar contempt for those folks.
OK, Here is something for the vinos!
From: Wine Panel: This month’s challenge is a spicy North Indian-style chicken curry
Sake with masala….whoa. I’m trying it. Thanks, Kallu!
Most people dont understand why wine is taken so seriously. You go on wine trips, where you carry around a bucket so that you can spit into it after each sip of a different wine. Then there is the sniffing and squishing around of the wine in your mouth and the people who look at you drinking a wine waiting to see any flaw in how you drink it. Then people examine the color by looking at the glass at every angle they can find.
Do you really need more of an explantion for why people find wine enthusiast pretty ridiculus?
Vodka is more of the same
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/business/08feed.html
the reverse classism on this thread is despicable. if i met any of you in a dark restaurant i’ll be sure to pair you with a nice chianti
What’s it to you?
I don’t have any particular fondness for wine, but really. If someone is passionate about something what’s your problem?
you know whom i find effin ridiculus (sic)? people who get fussy about burgers. who goes from restaurant to restaurant obsessing about a slab of meat doused in a bunch of chemical dominated liquids with artificial bright colors? take a torch to them, shallow
man, the luger burger is something else, thought the primehouse one pictured (3rd from left, top row) appears to be the best packed, ie the loose packing producing the best texture–uneven surfaces that stand in great contrast to the uniformity that is prepackaged patties–and a little peekaboo into the redness. of course, the great ones are charred, so you get a crunch when you start to bite only to be followed by a soft jucyness.
the luger burger however appears to be aged more, like their steaks. its right on the edge of being too gamey sometimes, but that’s where the connoisseur really want to be. slightly challenged. let the riffraff go to mickydees.
and man do burgers go with red wine or what? almost as good as bougie liver with a nice chianti.
I am sitting alone in my room, drinking a Bordeaux Cabernet Sauvignon as I type this. The wine has a smoky oak flavour, and is intoxicating me steadily and smoothly. Truly, a distant second to Old Monk with water, drunk out of plastic cups in the company of close friends.
YUM!
derivative thinking as usual from Miz S.: wine (heard of tharaa/handiya, etc.) has historically been commonly drunk in India, just not the type of French/Italian grape based stuff. Sake is rice wine and probably legit in this type of thinking, but talking about the “growth” of wine in India is so naively anthropological!!
gnopgnip@22:
It helps to do some research before shooting off.
Roman wine was popular with Sangam era Tamils, it’s not uncommon to find amphorae in TN/Kerala/Andhra. Persian vino was the ancient equivalent of boone’s farm
With any luck, Indians will enjoy wine – not like the Europeans with their wine experts and silly one dimensional rankings – but the way they enjoy tea, coffee and other ‘normal’ things. Which is to acknowledge there are significant differences and different people developing their own individual preferences like strong, weak, fullbodied, aromatic etc.
How often have you seen Indian chai experts or South Indian coffee experts pontificating on their beverages of choice and starting magazines and TV shows for the sme ?
So who gets lucky if Indians enjoy wine, the producers? So why not Kallu and Saarayam as noted in #15, which are severely banned even though they are native to India?
That will be the springboard for Indian vintners. It’s true everywhere else– really only in India and Pakistan that women are required to knock back the scotch right along with the men.
If Kallu and Saarayam are banned there must be good reason. Like perhaps death due to toxic, unhygenic manufacturing? Or maybe the local village women got them banned because their husbands were becoming drunken, abusive alcoholics who squander away their (the wives’)hard earned money. Believe it or not, there have been indigenous village womens’ movements to make their villages “dry”.
Actually I’m shocked that even drinking wine doesn’t offend her family. As much as Indians want to become like Europeans, the fact remains that most women in India do not drink alcohol of any sort and it is looked down upon by many when they do (outside of some upper-middle class city folk).
Why are Indians so eager to take to this habit? What’s the value in it?
Indian women are suffering at the hands of men who can’t hold their drink to the point of them demanding the government to step in and declare their villages “dry” – and you want to introduce MORE drink into the country?
Hogwash!
The Women’s Christian Temperance Union did the same thing in the US. We all know how wonderfully that worked out for everyone. Entrenching gangsters, diminished respect for the law, and the demolishment of any semblance of the kind of drinking culture that fosters responsible drinking. Just because there is a mass movement for something doesn’t mean that that “something” is particularly smart.
The truth is, the reason local liquors are banned is because India has a lot of irrational teetotalers and it’s easier for them to drop the hammer on intoxicants favored by the poor. Booze drunk by the British has the virtue of “credibility” owing to its popularity among the “masters.” It’s the same reason cocaine and crack see such dramatically different sentencings.
This is not true of India. You can read about the “movements” in villages by and for the safety of women and their children. Its a real issue and it has nothing to do with whether the drink is local or exported. Some villages had (and still have) an epidemic of drunken men squandering away the wealth of their wives and harming them physically.
If you don’t agree, take it up with these poor village women.