Partition. In Gaza.

Protest Flags.jpg
Flags flapped in the 75 degree perfect Californian weather, flags of Mexico, Cuba, the Philippines, the U.S. and of course, Palestine. I was standing in front of the Federal Building in Los Angeles, in solidarity with thousands of people of all races, ages, and religions. I was one of many who this past Saturday, congregated in their city centers to protest the attacks on innocent lives in the Gaza strip. As of this post, we are 20 days into the attacks and over 1,000 people in Gaza are dead.

The attacks in Gaza are highly controversial with a fierce tug and pull between the sides. LA’s Mayor Villaraigosa and NYC’s Mayor Bloomberg have both taken a pro-Israel stance, as well as the 390 members of Congress who this past week voted “aye” to the passing of House Resolution 34. The resolution “recognizes Israel’s right to defend itself against attacks from Gaza, reaffirms the United States’ strong support for Israel…” On the streets it seems most people are angry about the situation on the Gaza side, not necessarily pro-Hamas, but more aligned with a ‘pro-humanitarian stop the killing of innocent people’ stance.

Protest Holding Flag.jpgI knew how I personally felt, but what I wanted to know is, “Is this a South Asian American issue? As desis, why should we care?” Short of learning that Gandhi was an anti-Zionist, there’s not too much out there on the matter. But at Saturday’s protest, there were many desis out walking the street in solidarity. So I hit the streets and asked them why they were there. This is what they had to say.

“A lot of people were here for the protest,” said Omar of the band Elephant with Guns. “I couldn’t find my friend so I just joined the people I was with and started playing[he starts beating a hand held drum and chanting] one, two, three, four, we don’t want your racist war. Five, six, seven, eight, stop the killing stop the hate.”

“I thought it was great turnout and I was very inspired by it,” states Amy, a young professional. “It’s important for South Asians to be here because we need to show our solidarity. We went through it in India during our fight for independence.”

“I think that this is not particular to Arabs, to people of Middle East orgins, or to South Asian origin but I think that any community that has lived under any kind of occupation or the injustices of any type of colonization should be committed to this cause,” said Naaz, a PhD student at UCLA. “I’m from an Indian background. The types of atrocities that were committed under the British in India and the way that they systematically tried to divide people and divide Hindus from Muslims was unjust. We are still living with a lot of the scars of that British occupation…I think it’s about Western hegemony that is still continuing in the form of capitalism, and in new imperialistic projects, like Iraq, Afghanistan and maybe even Pakistan… As a community of color the west has been manipulating us for a long time.”

“South Asians tend not to be as connected to other communities in general,” said the Mad Guru, wearing an image he had designed pinned to the front of his shirt. “We can’t keep seeing problems as other people’s problems somewhere far away. I mean, you have to understand that if you don’t stick up for other peoples’ rights, then no one is going to stick up for your rights either.”

The protest was great, but there are other ways people in the South Asian community are showing support too. Some in the Sikh community jumped on board earlier this week. Protest Omar.jpg

We are Sikhs who stand against the brutality of Israeli occupation and the ongoing siege, blockade, and massacre of Gaza. Now more than ever, we call on our Sikh sisters and brothers to think about what our faith and our Sikh identity really means. Why did Guru Nanak Sahib seek to abolish the caste system in South Asia? Why did Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib sacrifice his life for the sake of others’ (non-Sikhs) right to freely practice their religion and live free of persecution?…Because for Sikhs, fighting against all forms of tyranny and oppression is a spiritual obligation. [racewire]

It’s great to see so many people acting in solidarity, but it’s understandable that more people haven’t spoken out because the issue is so confusing and potentially so divisive. South Asian mag Samar posted a well researched myth-busting piece last week to clarify the politics around the issue.

We may disagree with the politics of Hamas, just as we may disagree with the politics of the British Labor Party, but it does not follow that we should condone the slaughter of all leaders and members of Hamas, their families, government employees, and random members of the Palestinian population which elected them to power, any more than we would condone the slaughter of all leaders and members of the Labour Party, their families, government employees, and random members of the British population which elected them to power. The fact that the US and EU cannot see this equivalence demonstrates that they are dominated by the same racism which allowed slavery to flourish and the indigenous peoples of North America and Australia to be exterminated. [samar]

Sure we can protest to express our solidarity but that is by no means the only nor most strategic tactic. I called my representative today to express my disappointment on his ‘aye’ vote on HR 34, and I will call him again tomorrow to ask him to co-sponsor Kucinich’s resolution on the humanitarian issues in Gaza. My office will be hosting a brown bag to learn more about the issue. I’ve been sending action alerts to my friends. I’m not saying you have to pick ‘my’ side on this issue, nor am I saying you have to be a gung-ho freedom fighting activist. But what I will say is this is an important issue. As South Asian Americans, this issue is relevant to us. Do your research and get educated on this complex situation. And if you feel moved by what you learn, do something about it.

Protest Streetlight.jpg

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About Taz

Taz is an activist, organizer and writer based in California. She is the founder of South Asian American Voting Youth (SAAVY), curates MutinousMindState.tumblr.com and blogs at TazzyStar.blogspot.com. Follow her at twitter.com/tazzystar

320 thoughts on “Partition. In Gaza.

  1. Rob #126:

    Hamas wasn’t outright created by Israel, but its growth was definitely encouraged in the Palestinian territories (by allowing it unfettered fundraising and such) to weaken the grip of the PLO and hopefully create internecine warfare that would make the IDF’s job a bit easier. What they didn’t count on was Hamas’ military wing turning on Israel.

    As for why Israel would endorse an Islamist movement and not a liberal one, PLO/Fatah was pretty liberal and secular, but was also responsible for most of the terrorism waged against Israel up to that point (late 1980s). At that time, “Islamist = terrorist” weren’t synonyms in the minds of most. I think the reason that the Palestinian issue dominates over other issues was that the PLO successfully pushed their image of a secular leftist group fighting imperialist tyranny. This is what gained them a lot of support throughout universities worldwide and also the support of various European and Japanese leftist terrorist groups.

  2. Because your TAX DOLLARS are the main source of funding for the Israeli military.

    Your gasoline dollars are also going towards plans to terrorise Indian cities. Are you cycling everywhere?

  3. 81 · Pablo said

    I dont see how this is a Desi issue anywhere in the world.
    In the UK it is the Pakistani / Bangaldeshi Muslim cause par excellence. The entire identity of British Pakistanis seems predicated on Palestine and the supremacy and suffering and victimhood of the ‘Ummah’. Personally speaking, I feel sorry for the innocent Palestinians, but I feel sick spending five minutes in the company of anti-Semites who talk about Jewish conspiracies, speak of Jews as if they are cockroaches, and talk of destroying Israel, not peaceful co-existence, which is invariably what I hear when I talk to those protesting against Israel, in particular from among the British Desi Muslims whose whole existence and identity seems based on this issue sometimes. I don’t want to be associated with such people. They are like the worst kind of RSS psychopath ranting about Muslims and Christians, except these bigots are valorised by much of the Left, and their attitudes are unchallenged within their communities.

    Anti Zionists are not necesarily anti-Jewish and many are not anti-Semite.

    This would be due to the fact the ARABS ARE SEMITES! Look at a genetic / language map. You are going to see Semitic and then you are going to see a few branches. One of them is going to be Hebrew… and another one is going to be Arabic.

    There are also many JEWISH Anti Zionists. Hello where did the history go? I think the AIPAC paid history to drown itself so that the word Semite only goes with Jewish people.

    I’m not advocating wiping Israel off the map or killing any of its people but being Anti-Zionist is about being against the actions involved in creating the current state of Israel and believing that it wasn’t supposed to be created. Its also about being against the current policies and actions of the state of Israel. Its not exactly “equal rights” living inside of Israel.

    Now that the state has been created they’re going to have change some policies or end up dissolving. When Israel prime ministers are on their way out they end up admitting to the reality of the situation but while they are in office they have to go along with the crazies who have their eyes closed.

    The last time Olmert was leaving, before he came back for this time, he admitted that much would have to be given back if Israel truly wanted peace … http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/09/200892963411387754.html

  4. 153 · amaun said

    Because your TAX DOLLARS are the main source of funding for the Israeli military. Your gasoline dollars are also going towards plans to terrorise Indian cities. Are you cycling everywhere?

    And so are your tax dollars/gasoline dollars. This is assuming that the Mumbai attacks were funded by oil money which hasn’t been proven. I don’t drive. I do bike actually. At the same time anything I buy has been shipped from somewhere. Your gasoline dollars are also going to drown Pacific Islanders and Bangladeshis due to the increase in temperature and the rising of the ocean.

    These are all major reasons why offshore drilling might be the temporary solution but if we don’t want to be spending billions in dollars to fund Israel’s and other countries’ militaries to maintain our position in the ME and many more on getting ourselves out of these messes we get dragged into

    We are going to need non-toxic, renewable, energy sources that also don’t starve other people(corn/soy..etc. fuels).

  5. I’d rather see my tax dollars go to education so that we will have a new generation that learns how to create solutions that don’t include killing people.

  6. Over the last few years, Bush administration has given more than 10 Billion dollars to Pakistan and it is quite possible that Mumbai attackers are funded with part of that money.

  7. 157 · Ponniyin Selvan said

    Over the last few years, Bush administration has given more than 10 Billion dollars to Pakistan and it is quite possible that Mumbai attackers are funded with part of that money.

    Was it the Bush administration or the citizens of the U.S.? We do have the right to vote? Congress people vote for budgets right? We vote for these people right? The same people that sign off on thousand page bills at 11 pm without reading half of it such as the Patriot Act.

    Half of the country sat on there… and decided not to vote against Bush, right?

    Yes, billions of dollars to Pakistan, billions of dollars to India and joint military training exercises and equipment and weapons, billions of dollars to Israel, sold billions of dollars worth of weapons and aircraft and secrets to Saudi Arabia, U.S. central command in Qatar – paying for rent, U.S. offshore companies in Dubai to do business with Iran, looks like we got them all in our pocket…huh? While we don’t know exactly who funded the attackers in Mumbai you can be sure the U.S. funded whomever it was because we give all of our money away.

    Get out and vote.

    If you live and work in the U.S. we/you are part of the problem. Whatever side you choose.

  8. And so are your tax dollars/gasoline dollars. This is assuming that the Mumbai attacks were funded by oil money which hasn’t been proven. I don’t drive. I do bike actually. At the same time anything I buy has been shipped from somewhere. Your gasoline dollars are also going to drown Pacific Islanders and Bangladeshis due to the increase in temperature and the rising of the ocean.

    Absolutely!! you forget the effect of large scale beef and pork farming on the methane content of the atmosphere. what a merry pickle we are in! in order to save the planet from cow farts, we need to kill cows. But that extermination would be loathsome beyond loath. i am pulling the icicles off my nose hair in frustration and it’s causing little dimples to appear in my forehead. if we all did that, we may be able to suck all the methane into our collective cranium pits.

  9. 146 · ak said

    ANNA – and all other bloggers – with all due respect, if SM/readers were not comfortable with what Taz quoted, you should have asked her to remove it from the post. …Taz quoting the article indicates that she meant for it to add to the dialogue. You took issue with what was quoted, not what ThinSkinned commented- to me, it makes no sense to remove the comment, but leave the quote.

    ak, I appreciate the courteous way you expressed yourself. I wish others were so constructive and civil; what a different blog this would be. 🙂

    We don’t have an editorial board which vets each post before it is published. Each of us writes what we want, when we want, with almost no interference or comment from the other bloggers. I’m making a point of responding to you when it may not be entirely productive (for the sake of the thread) to do so because I want to stress that there is no “SM” position. We each speak for ourselves. When that is the case, why would we remove part of Taz’s post? We wouldn’t.

    If we removed everything which readers were uncomfortable with, there would be no blog left. 🙂 There’s such a diversity of opinions among all of you, someone is bound to be offended by something; that’s why it always surprises me that people forget how there is a diversity of opinions IN the bunker, as well. We don’t “remove” things from or “edit” any posts unless they are our own.

    Additionally, I didn’t remove any comment. I did not moderate this thread. Contrary to what has been published online, I am NOT SM Intern, nor am I the only blogger who asks our genderqueer volunteer to moderate posts. We all employ SM intern. I never saw what commenter ThinSkinned initially posted, so I had no way to take issue with it.

    We’re all allowed our own opinions and I’ve tried to be respectful during this discussion while indicating that I don’t necessarily agree with every part of the post which inspired it. Still, Taz did the legwork of interviewing Desis at this protest and by doing so, she made a current “general” issue or conflict one which was appropriate for discussion on SM. I respect that passion and effort, even if I don’t agree with everything which was said.

  10. 156 · Raj said

    I’d rather see my tax dollars go to education so that we will have a new generation that learns how to create solutions that don’t include killing people.

    What if the education just ends up making them better at killing people? A lot of the terrorists do have engineering degrees after all.

  11. 161 · NV said

    156 · Raj said
    I’d rather see my tax dollars go to education so that we will have a new generation that learns how to create solutions that don’t include killing people.
    What if the education just ends up making them better at killing people?A lot of the terrorists do have engineering degrees after all.

    Agreed, this is a possibility. I know quite a few engineering students that will not take a job with a defense contractor no matter the amount of money…these same wouldn’t side with any army—state sponsored or not.

    If you had a choice would you want your tax dollars going to facilitate this war or to give a child the choice with a better education then they have right now? Education is going down the drain. Children are learning that we solve disputes no matter how small…violently.

  12. 162 · Rajesh Harricharan said

    The so called Palestine did not exist before Israel was formed. http://www.rbooker.com/html/the_myth_of_palestine.html Therefore there is no such a being as a Palestinian, just Arabs. As for Israel giving a dis proportional response, it is whow wars are fought, not a game of football.

    Yeah it was called Trans-Jordan and it was ruled by the British. The majority of brown people there were Arabs in land they consider Palestine.

    There was no “India” before the British came either. If they did the same thing to the subcontinent and transplanted thousands of people there that were not from there (for thousands of years) would your point be that there was never such thing as “India.”

    The modern state of Israel was created by Europeans as well. It didn’t exist in the early 1900’s. The term Israeli has been created with the creation of the state. Anti-Zionists Jews don’t believe that Israel is supposed to exist until their Messiah comes.

    Israelis and Palestinians are real people and aren’t going anywhere. So the solution is not going to be violence. As long as it is violence and oppression there will be a war waiting to happen because this will only continue the cycle.

    I’m for peace over prophesy.

  13. I will concede here that I cannot be dispassionate on this issue because Iam a Hindu who is a Zionist. call ms Hinjew :-). If I were not physically disabled I would go join the IDF in this fight.

  14. There will always be arguement on what happened and for what reasons(to your deleted comment).

    The fact is now that there are PEOPLE existing called Palestinians and Israelis.

    Neither of them deserve to be exterminated.

    The U.S. is real and was founded by a bunch of traders/traitors. The history of the U.S. is only marvelous and beautiful to the U.S. The natives and the Brits weren’t exactly rejoicing the create of this country. There was never such thing as an American / U.S. citizen before these people came. These people deserve to live too, even though the founders and generations after them killed millions to create this country.

  15. 166 · Rajesh Harricharan said

    I will concede here that I cannot be dispassionate on this issue because Iam a Hindu who is a Zionist. call ms Hinjew :-). If I were not physically disabled I would go join the IDF in this fight.

    War is not a sustainable solution for Israel or for any other country for that matter.

  16. I want to stress that there is no “SM” position. We each speak for ourselves.

    If this is the case, it would’ve been better if the poster just said: this issue is relevant, what do y’all think? All that jazz about Sikh support and the Sameer magazine and partition sounded rather artificial to me, an effort to south Asianise the issue. As you see from the responses, people here think about things beyond South Asia, and there is no need to create South Asian fig leafs to hear what people are thinking.

    In my view, just like the protests, this post is counterproductive. It serves to reinforce the Israeli narrative of the country following democratic principles (and hence amenable to others’ opinions), while also supporting the Arab proxy campaign to show that their no-democratic regimes are not that bad. The best response to the issue is the studied silence of Obama. I suspect the crisis will end before his inauguration.

  17. There was no “India” before the British came either

    A.) Yes there was. It may not have always been under one state, but the idea of there being a unique civilization called India is very old. B.) It’s irrelevant anyway. With the exception of China and maybe Iran every civilization on Earth looks young compared to India.

  18. 171 · NV said

    There was no “India” before the British came either
    A.) Yes there was. It may not have always been under one state, but the idea of there being a unique civilization called India is very old. B.) It’s irrelevant anyway. With the exception of China and maybe Iran every civilization on Earth looks young compared to India.

    That was the point. There was no state called “India” before the British. There was more than one civilization on the continent with many DIFFERENT traditions. There were many different empires over time. Non of which ever ruled the whole continent. Even the British did not hold the whole sub-continent as the Portuguese and French held parts at different times. The idea of Indianess came about from fighting for independence from the colonists.

  19. It’s 14 degrees in NYC today and 84 degrees in LA. Damn! (Not really a threadjack since Taz’s pictures show warm and sunny LA which taunt me everytime I check out SM today).

  20. Gujudude@123,

    What do you have to say about the controversial use of US-supplied cluster bombs and depleted uranium weapons which may have been used or is it anti-Israel media hype ?

  21. 160 · A N N A said

    We’re all allowed our own opinions and I’ve tried to be respectful during this discussion while indicating that I don’t necessarily agree with every part of the post which inspired it. Still, Taz did the legwork of interviewing Desis at this protest and by doing so, she made a current “general” issue or conflict one which was appropriate for discussion on SM. I respect that passion and effort, even if I don’t agree with everything which was said.

    Thanks, ANNA – these kinds of well thought-out responses are partly why I prefer SM to any other brown blog (also, I find the quality and variety far greater) – your sense of responsibility to your readers is so prevalent. Rarely would you find a blog where a blogger – who did not even write the post in issue – would take the time to write such a response, and I really appreciate that.

    As for Israel giving a dis proportional response, it is whow wars are fought, not a game of football.

    So many people have reiterated this in the context of this war, but it is really easy to see when you are not exposed to – or even affected by – the results of war. I highly doubt most people would be saying that if they were part of the casualties as a result of actions of another. I know that it’s not that simplistic. But when you really think about the details of war, it is heart-wrenching. We have grown up in a world where, I think, we have become somewhat immune to the war and are able, for various reasons, to sideline the logistics and consequences of wars past and present. Especially on a humanistic/individual level. This is not an argument against or for either Israel or Palestine, but it’s a reality that needs to be highlighted, esp. in the face of e.g. the above comment.

  22. As you see from the responses, people here think about things beyond South Asia, and there is no need to create South Asian fig leafs to hear what people are thinking.

    I don’t care what people here think about. We care an write about what we think about per our own internal guidelines. And please read my comments up above. When you use the term South Asia(n) without immediately following it with “American” then it implies you don’t understand what this blog primarily about.

  23. What do you have to say about the controversial use of US-supplied cluster bombs and depleted uranium weapons which may have been used or is it anti-Israel media hype ?

    The discussions as it relates towards conventional ammunition is murky and needs a bit more background than the average news article generally provides or people know. There are specific tactical reasons why cluster munitions and depleted uranium exist. Cluster munitions (essentially anything that dispenses bomblets or little grenades) are technically designed too fight against large enemy concentrations and they detonate some distance above ground. There are other uses as well, where you DON’T want to use a regular bomb, but still want to destroy a target by disabling it. DU is the best armor penetrating material out there.

    The issue is two fold:

    1) Is one against cluster munitions in general? Many of the human rights groups fall here, but their position is also fundamentally opposed to military/wars overall.

    2) Is one against how cluster munitions function and how it is used? Many governments fall here. They don’t like the unexploded ordnance aspect and use in more populated areas.

    For the first question, I would submit that if cluster munitions were banned outright (which means Russia, China, USA, India and some other big armies), to get the same tactical effect, the military would just use more regular bombs in volume. This is more destructive. For folks concerned with Human Rights, this won’t change a thing.

    For the second question, if one is against the residual effects of cluster munitions (bomblets don’t function as intended), then technology is the answer. The US government is already looking at technology to ensure all bomblets work as designed by requiring a 99% reliability rate (theoretically 100% impossible with any actual manufactured product). They’re looking at achieving this through the use of different fuzing technologies instead of the mechanical fuzes used today.

    Depleted Uranium is a smaller issue, IMO. It’s armor/fortified position specific, not anti-personnel. As long as there are tanks and armor, DU isn’t going anywhere as it is superior to any other kinetic energy weapon (projectile). Also it is expensive, so people don’t want to simply use it up. Economic reality says it’s judicially used.

    What complicates all of this is how some 21st century warfare is progressing. Nation states against agents that will entrench themselves amongst the population. Using populated urban areas as cover is wrong, so is trying to defeat guerrilla fighters with conventional tactics. But, if that’s all either side sees as their options, DU/Cluster bombs or not, people are going to get caught in the crossfire. This is a good read. US State Department brief on Cluster Munitions Policy. Hopefully people find the discussion between reporters and government informative. Here is the DoD new cluster munition policy.

  24. What Abhi means by this is (“We know when and how threads devolve and turn off the vast majority of readers and we will continue to act accordingly.”) is that they will shut off comments/threads that run counter to their politics. Please don’t insult our intelligence by feigning ignorance on this one either. Post deleted by the censorship police in ….

  25. Folks, this is a private website. Unless we’re the bloggers, we’re ALL guests. If the post or discussion doesn’t fit your taste, no one is forced by some unseen force to type out a post. The option of not reading and posting exists…

  26. It appears that basically an opinion on Israel vs Palestine conflict is formed based on one’s “connections” to the following factors at various levels of interests and motivations – (a) strategic/geo-political/ (b) human-rights/humanitarian (c) academic/intellectual (e) personal (religious, relatives,friends etc.)

  27. 57 · archana said

    This is an excellent point: I’m not a supporter of Israel because in general, as a brown woman whose family was directly impacted by British rule in India, I’m not a supporter of colonialism

    If you take the gender part out, I think that pretty much applies to 99% of the people who are on this blog or of Indian origin in general.

  28. Taz- came upon this late today. Thank you very much for this thoughtful post. It is indeed heartening to see various communities rally behind each other instead of sticking to their own causes and then wondering why nobody else shows up (we’re working on that in San Diego…)

    This is a slightly confusing issue, but the humanitarian aid crisis is not. The death toll in Gaza stands at 1000+ while the Israeli toll is less than 30. The IDF has attacked UN facilities as well as clearly defined civilian targets. Whether or not one agrees with Hamas, the civilian casualty rate is horrifyingly high with, may I add, not much of anywhere to go to get away from it.

    I’m working on a review of Israeli and Palestinian Docs- I’ll have a list for your consideration in a few days.

    Somebody made a comment about the birthrate-saying that the Palestinians out produces Israelis… here are a few things for consideration.

    In regards to Gaza’s inhabitants. Most are not from Gaza. They are from villages within 50 miles of the wall- many of which were Arab (Muslim and Christian) villages for over 500 years. Ashkalon is a good example of this. While it is true that some Arabs left in 48, a good number were expulsed, many by the forces of the Haganah/Irgun, a paramilitary force which eventually became part of the IDF. Ariel Sharon was part of this group. They are responsible for the massacre of the village of Deir Yassin as well as at least eight other villages over five days in April, and the expulsion of over 40 villages from around the Gaza Strip during May in 1948 (a practice which continued through 1950).

    Most of these villagers were never compensated for their houses, orchards, fields, businesses, etc. in part because the JDF put these holdings in a category which placed them outside the purvey of the Israeli government and into private administration.

    Thousands of Palestinians were removed this way. (see Benny Morris and the New Historians)

    In contrast, between 1948 and 2006, over 2 million people immigrated to Israel, over 60,000 in 2000 alone. (source:http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Immigration/immigration_by_country2.html). Israel has replaced the original Arab inhabitants at least once over through immigration practices. Immigration is still actively encouraged, especially from the developed nations.

    This in addition to controlling the water resources.

    Just something to think about.

  29. 176 · Abhi said

    <

    blockquote>

    As you see from the responses, people here think about things beyond South Asia, and there is no need to create South Asian fig leafs to hear what people are thinking.
    I don’t care what people here think about. We care an write about what we think about per our own internal guidelines. And please read my comments up above. When you use the term South Asia(n) without immediately following it with “American” then it implies you don’t understand what this blog primarily about.

    I was talking/responding to the poster and Anna. I don’t care what you think about. Who are you? I have seen you making such intrusive and bossy comments like this often, are you the headmaster here? Maybe you “own” this blog?

  30. 182 · zazou said

    In contrast, between 1948 and 2006, over 2 million people immigrated to Israel, over 60,000 in 2000 alone. (source:http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Immigration/immigration_by_country2.html). Israel has replaced the original Arab inhabitants at least once over through immigration practices. Immigration is still actively encouraged, especially from the developed nations.

    Zazou: In the interest of clarifying what you said…

    After the 1948 War of Independence, 758,000—866,000 Jews were either expelled or fled the surrounding Arab nations into Israel. 711,000 Arabs fled Palestine during the same time, to other Arab nations. While Israel accepted these homeless Jews into its society, most of the Arab nations, which are roughly 650 times the size of Israel, did not accept the Arabs.

    “particularly some 360,000 Arab refugees who left, or were expelled from, Israel-ruled parts of Palestine during the fighting in the Holy Land” – Background Paper No. 47. The United Nations: April 20, 1949. Retrieved on May th , 2007 from http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/

    “the estimate of the statistical expert, which the Committee believes to be as accurate as circumstances permit, indicates that the refugees from Israel- controlled territory amount to approximately 711,000” -General Progress Report and Supplementary Report of the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine, Covering the Period from 11 December 1949 to 23 October 1950, United Nations: 23 October 1950

    So basically the replacement could’ve been mutual…

    Something to think about

  31. Reg 181 I beg to disagree Large numbers of hindus in India and abroad rejoice at Israel as the one country having the guts to hit back at the ummah

    If you notice even the UPA is doing no more than mumble mumble at this

    Hindus have demonstrated in large numbers worldwide in favor of Israel

    And the Gaza women seem to be fat and having 6 kids

    Perhaps they could move to bangladesh where 20 million hindus are missing from 1947 to today, based on missing numbers in census

  32. 183 · Bleah said

    I don’t care what people here think about. We care an write about what we think about per our own internal guidelines. And please read my comments up above. When you use the term South Asia(n) without immediately following it with “American” then it implies you don’t understand what this blog primarily about. I was talking/responding to the poster and Anna. I don’t care what you think about. Who are you? I have seen you making such intrusive and bossy comments like this often, are you the headmaster here? Maybe you “own” this blog?

    Thanks for the much needed comic relief…that was hilariously misguided thinking

    refer to #179

  33. This goes back a few posts, but when talk shifts to the unfortunate Palestinian refugees living in camps in Lebanon and other parts of the Arab world, rarely is any thought given to the Arab Jewish refugees who were in turn driven out of their own countries – places where they had lived for centuries – in the years following the creation of the state of Israel. Almost entire Jewish communities in countries like Morocco, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya and later, Egypt, Lebanon and many from Tunisia were forced to flee as a result of brutal, violent attacks by the local Muslims, leaving almost everything behind with no compensation and very little assistance from the Arab governments. And yet you never hear about their stories or the many injustices they suffered. These refugees have been integrated into Israeli society or in other parts of the world where they settled – which wasn’t easy in many cases. And yet the Arab countries have been unable to do the same for their Palestinian refugees and would prefer they remain rootless and deprived of many basic human rights. I wonder why that is so…

    A few Iraqi jews fled to India in the late 40s and early 50s joining the existing Baghdadi Jewish community there, especially in Calcutta though most of them have now moved on to other countries like the UK, Canada, Israel etc. But again, rarely do you hear people demonstrate vocally for their property rights, right to return etc.

  34. Arrrghhh Quote Failure…This is what I said

    Thanks for the much needed comic relief…that was hilariously misguided thinking

    refer to #179

  35. 189 · Galloping Granny said

    Arrrghhh Quote Failure…This is what I said Thanks for the much needed comic relief…that was hilariously misguided thinking refer to #179

    Exactly. Most people post comments for time-pass, it is entertaining. As far as that goes, it is irrelevant whether this blog is about South Asian or South Asian American or whatever. If you own the site and the posts, and only want some types of people to comment, and some types of comments, based on your Murdochian “internal guidelines”, say so.

    Bossy headmasters spoil all the fun.

  36. 180 · Priya said

    It appears that basically an opinion on Israel vs Palestine conflict is formed based on one’s “connections” to the following factors at various levels of interests and motivations -(a) strategic/geo-political/ (b) human-rights/humanitarian (c) academic/intellectual (e) personal (religious, relatives,friends etc.)

    i’m not sure I understand how someone could not have a connection to b.) human rights / humanitarian That is unless you are a cannibal/homicidal, veternarian.

    Regardless of what side of the issue a person could claim b.) human rights / humanitarian because no matter how much the news wants to make it a non human issue both sides of this are humans.

  37. Exactly. Most people post comments for time-pass, it is entertaining. As far as that goes, it is irrelevant whether this blog is about South Asian or South Asian American or whatever. If you own the site and the posts, and only want some types of people to comment, and some types of comments, based on your Murdochian “internal guidelines”, say so. Bossy headmasters spoil all the fun

    So do people who continually derail otherwise productive conversations with their anonymous comments. If you think something is irrelevant then please don’t introduce it in the first place. Thanks

  38. 190 · Bleah said

    Exactly. Most people post comments for time-pass, it is entertaining. As far as that goes, it is irrelevant whether this blog is about South Asian or South Asian American or whatever. If you own the site and the posts, and only want some types of people to comment, and some types of comments, based on your Murdochian “internal guidelines”, say so. Bossy headmasters spoil all the fun.

    I was being sarcastic…I was saying that your comment was pointless and misguided…

    is that more clear?

  39. i’m not sure I understand how someone could not have a connection to b.) human rights / humanitarian

    i guess we should ask this question to politicians and those who start wars for cooked up or for strategic reasons. in the case of israel it is clear they wanted to do maximum damages to hamas organization (their sources of supply routes i.e. tunnels across the egyptian borders) before some big changes such as feb-10 elections and obama admin taking place. collateral damage is the concern of civilians who fall into categories (b,c,d,e) in comment #180, i suppose ?

  40. wow, i’ve never heard that one — even from my grandfather, a fanatic hindu if there was ever one 🙂 fwiw, i think delhi has the one of most awesome and interesting visible architectural histories among modern cities.

    It’s not just my grandparents–please see, e.g., R. Nath, History of Mughal Architecture, Vol. IV, Part I, pp. 53-54 (Preface).

  41. http://politicalmavens.com/index.php/2009/01/07/the-eloquent-words-of-a-hindu-israel-supporter/

    The Eloquent Words of a Hindu Israel-Supporter By Heather Robinson (bio)

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    Yesterday in New York about 800 people gathered outside the Israeli consulate to support Israel. Among those I met was Mr. Gaurang G. Vaishnav, executive vice president of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, or World Hindu Council of America. He was there in the cold, along with numerous fellow Hindus and Christians, joining Jewish Israel-supporters during this difficult time.

    I have deepest admiration for people like this man, who can see past a mountain of terrorist propaganda and recognize that, tragic as is the loss of civilian life in this or any war, it will dwarf the horror that faces the free world and its people if fanatical groups like Hamas are not defeated. He sent me the following statement today:

    “I am here as an active Hindu who is concerned by the ever increasing menace of Islamic Terrorism. We in India have suffered heavily at the hands of the Islamic Terrorism for 14 centuries. Latest episode of Jehadi attacks in Mumbai is still fresh in everyone’s mind. Israel and India represent oldest civilizations and they both also have similarity in that they have a neighbor who is bent upon destroying their existence. In both cases, the neighbors are using radical Islam to justify their heinous deeds against humanity. I believe that Israel has the right to defend itself against the naked aggression by Hamas. If the Jehaids are left unchecked, the whole civilized world would be in great danger of cultural suicide. While our organization cannot take a position on it because of its charter, I support this demonstration and I am sure I represent views of thousands of Hindus from India who live in the United States when I say that I wish Israel success in its efforts to eradicate the evil of terrorism by using all the means at its disposal.”

  42. 194 · Priya said

    >i’m not sure I understand how someone could not have a connection to >b.) human rights / humanitarian i guess we should ask this question to politicians and those who start wars for cooked up or for strategic reasons.in the case of israel it is clear they wanted to do maximum damages to hamas organization (their sources of supply routes i.e. tunnels across the egyptian borders) before some big changes such as feb-10 elections and obama admin taking place. collateral damage is the concern of civilians who fall into categories (b,c,d,e) in comment #180, i suppose ?

    exactly, homicidal

  43. i’ve always thought the better solution would have been to give what is now unified germany to the jews.

    the europeans are the original aggressors in this sad story.

  44. 200 · campmuir said

    i’ve always thought the better solution would have been to give what is now unified germany to the jews. the europeans are the original aggressors in this sad story.

    no their specialty is taking and trading land not giving it away at least not their own land that is.

  45. …and reading up more on wikipedia informs me that the 33-day 2006 Lebanon war could have been another reason for revenge by israel through this war. note in that war they agreed to ceasefire and in the present war and now they are adamant on not agreeeing to one soon. but definitely there is a disproportionately in terms of death and military prowess of the two sides. i guess it is some kind of continuation of the classic historical david versus goliath fight