The attacks in Gaza are highly controversial with a fierce tug and pull between the sides. LA’s Mayor Villaraigosa and NYC’s Mayor Bloomberg have both taken a pro-Israel stance, as well as the 390 members of Congress who this past week voted “aye” to the passing of House Resolution 34. The resolution “recognizes Israel’s right to defend itself against attacks from Gaza, reaffirms the United States’ strong support for Israel…” On the streets it seems most people are angry about the situation on the Gaza side, not necessarily pro-Hamas, but more aligned with a ‘pro-humanitarian stop the killing of innocent people’ stance.
I knew how I personally felt, but what I wanted to know is, “Is this a South Asian American issue? As desis, why should we care?” Short of learning that Gandhi was an anti-Zionist, there’s not too much out there on the matter. But at Saturday’s protest, there were many desis out walking the street in solidarity. So I hit the streets and asked them why they were there. This is what they had to say.
“A lot of people were here for the protest,” said Omar of the band Elephant with Guns. “I couldn’t find my friend so I just joined the people I was with and started playing[he starts beating a hand held drum and chanting] one, two, three, four, we don’t want your racist war. Five, six, seven, eight, stop the killing stop the hate.”“I thought it was great turnout and I was very inspired by it,” states Amy, a young professional. “It’s important for South Asians to be here because we need to show our solidarity. We went through it in India during our fight for independence.”
“I think that this is not particular to Arabs, to people of Middle East orgins, or to South Asian origin but I think that any community that has lived under any kind of occupation or the injustices of any type of colonization should be committed to this cause,” said Naaz, a PhD student at UCLA. “I’m from an Indian background. The types of atrocities that were committed under the British in India and the way that they systematically tried to divide people and divide Hindus from Muslims was unjust. We are still living with a lot of the scars of that British occupation…I think it’s about Western hegemony that is still continuing in the form of capitalism, and in new imperialistic projects, like Iraq, Afghanistan and maybe even Pakistan… As a community of color the west has been manipulating us for a long time.”
“South Asians tend not to be as connected to other communities in general,” said the Mad Guru, wearing an image he had designed pinned to the front of his shirt. “We can’t keep seeing problems as other people’s problems somewhere far away. I mean, you have to understand that if you don’t stick up for other peoples’ rights, then no one is going to stick up for your rights either.”
The protest was great, but there are other ways people in the South Asian community are showing support too. Some in the Sikh community jumped on board earlier this week. 
We are Sikhs who stand against the brutality of Israeli occupation and the ongoing siege, blockade, and massacre of Gaza. Now more than ever, we call on our Sikh sisters and brothers to think about what our faith and our Sikh identity really means. Why did Guru Nanak Sahib seek to abolish the caste system in South Asia? Why did Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib sacrifice his life for the sake of others’ (non-Sikhs) right to freely practice their religion and live free of persecution?…Because for Sikhs, fighting against all forms of tyranny and oppression is a spiritual obligation. [racewire]
It’s great to see so many people acting in solidarity, but it’s understandable that more people haven’t spoken out because the issue is so confusing and potentially so divisive. South Asian mag Samar posted a well researched myth-busting piece last week to clarify the politics around the issue.
We may disagree with the politics of Hamas, just as we may disagree with the politics of the British Labor Party, but it does not follow that we should condone the slaughter of all leaders and members of Hamas, their families, government employees, and random members of the Palestinian population which elected them to power, any more than we would condone the slaughter of all leaders and members of the Labour Party, their families, government employees, and random members of the British population which elected them to power. The fact that the US and EU cannot see this equivalence demonstrates that they are dominated by the same racism which allowed slavery to flourish and the indigenous peoples of North America and Australia to be exterminated. [samar]
Sure we can protest to express our solidarity but that is by no means the only nor most strategic tactic. I called my representative today to express my disappointment on his ‘aye’ vote on HR 34, and I will call him again tomorrow to ask him to co-sponsor Kucinich’s resolution on the humanitarian issues in Gaza. My office will be hosting a brown bag to learn more about the issue. I’ve been sending action alerts to my friends. I’m not saying you have to pick ‘my’ side on this issue, nor am I saying you have to be a gung-ho freedom fighting activist. But what I will say is this is an important issue. As South Asian Americans, this issue is relevant to us. Do your research and get educated on this complex situation. And if you feel moved by what you learn, do something about it.
Ummmmm–isn’t asking the Jews to fight the Muslims 1:1 on death-toll (given the global population of each group) asking for, in effect, the extermination of the Jews? For shame!
Here is a fascinating article from The Atlantic magazine, 1920–on balance quite skeptical of Zionism (I try to be fair that way).
The difference: David vs Goliath. Goliath being the Arabs in Gaza by sheer number would wipe out Israel(David) if they could. David (Israel) could wipe out the Arabs in Gaza but won’t.
204 · Rajesh Harricharan said
Whatever. Just repeating this load of garbage won’t make it true. Under the British your kind would have marveled at how the White man is allowing you to work for him for pennies rather than kill you. I know your kind–sniveling around the White Shahib. How kind of Israel for not committing outright genocide, but just handing it in doses over a span of 60+ years. How very kind of them to steal the Palestinian land slowly, with settlements here and there, instead of in one sweep. How kind of them to dehumanize, humiliate, and cage the Palestinians rather than wiping them out. How noble of Israel.
rec1man, Wanted to commend you on your IQ piece–is that going to be published anywhere? You really should!
Reply to 207
I dont know who will publish it because it makes a lot of approximations
The PC multicultural crowd will definitely not publish it
Steve Sailer was kind enough to allow it to be published on his blog
Yeah, that’s where I read it. Don’t let the “PC crowd” get you down re: publication–there are a lot of outlets these days–I will look around for one, if you want.
195 · rob said
i’m not disputing the claim, although there were old hindu havelis that have been sold and rebuilt as commercial property in the old part of town. i was just taken aback by the sentiment. given that a: hindus in the delhi region, despite being rich in the past couple centuries (the merchants and moneylending class who were quite wealthy sinc ethe mughal era), haven’t really been into public construction (say unlike in rajasthan) to the extent the mughals and the british have been. and b: the stuff is so beautiful; and actually does include, typical elements of hindu construction eg the chhatris in rashtrapati bhavan where a number of hindu craftsmen during its construction, a lot of the embellishment is clearly hindu in origin. even the mughal construction in delhi uses indic elements (i dont have my books on hand here, i’d give you references otherwise). basically, what i’m saying is that hindus should build more if they want more public construction of the sort they’d like to see. i remember reading a nice article recently which talked about how all the up-and-coming cities of the world were financing iconic architectural projects, but for india (even though they were as poor). no pei, leibskind etc was being commissioned by wealthy indians to make any public statement whatsoever. this guy (maybe it was gurcharan das) was lamenting that we had no vision, and just not the class to get some world class public construction/buildings going. sadly, i’ve only agreed. most of what delhi has built for commonwealth building is sadly mediocre: that was a golden opportunity and we botched it as usual. i know many hindus actually say that it is a shame that in delhi, any public architecture we’ve got that’s worth anything was bulit by the mughals and the british (and you just have to see the jama masjid and you’ll see what they mean). i’m not sure if that has to do with the fact that a lot of monuments etc built in pre-mughal times may have just been lost.
rob, the gurcharan das piece i was talking about is here (perhaps the only writing by him that may have been original in thought).
205 · Ven said
If you are incapable of controlling yourself and must rely on such ugliness to make an argument, refrain. Or we can delete such comments and if you continue to violate our guidelines, finally ban you. Your choice.
207 · rob said
it is an, uh, interesting approach. i’m going to read the model in detail and see what the brouhaha is about.
Shorter rec1man:
The Islams are coming to get us
fat ummah terror fist bumps in Gaza can move to the scene of their civilization’s greatest crime. Hold all fist bumps accountable. they are solely responsible for bumping.
My approximated model contains approximations
The PC/Multiculti crowd suppressed my study of comparative scrotum size and how it relates to Kudumi length and intelligence
214 · Nayagan said
Steve Sailer will publish it, if it doesn’t match William Dembski’s intellectual rigor.
Yes, billions of dollars to Pakistan, billions of dollars to India and joint military training exercises and equipment and weapons, billions of dollars to Israel, sold billions of dollars worth of weapons and aircraft and secrets to Saudi Arabia, U.S. central command in Qatar – paying for rent, U.S. offshore companies in Dubai to do business with Iran, looks like we got them all in our pocket…huh? While we don’t know exactly who funded the attackers in Mumbai you can be sure the U.S. funded whomever it was because we give all of our money away.
Technically India does not get billions of dollars of U.S military or other aid. I don’t think US spends money without a plan. Sometimes the plans go wrong. But they just don’t spend the money in altruistic ways. If there is no return, they won’t spend any money. I think it’s quite natural. Pakistan has been behaving like a client state to US since its inception and getting paid in return. Nothing wrong there.
rob,
apology duly noted, wot wot! Cristal appams at the club later?
port,
I’ll take ‘sinister’ (which may be, weirdly, another reference to ‘the left’) over ‘sophistic.’ The right loves a convert, especially a minority, and the left is enamored of authenticity-conferring POC ‘perspectives’–having been courted by both, I chose neither in the vain hope that more would also disengage.
port@209
off-topic but anyways – true..exceptions to your negative assessments generally lie only in th religious realm –
Bahai temple Akshvardam temple and many other temples/gurudwaras/churches/mosques – http://www.exploredelhi.com/places-of-worship/index.html
oh…forgot to mention the giant hanuman
what follows is all OT. sorry in advance!
217 · Priya said
yes, yes i was thinking about that and its nice you made it explicit; and that is a major disappointment. we have gurudwaras, but they’re still not the best example of their kind (imo). and yes, the bahai temple is nice. and i do want to see akshardham, but to tell you the truth i’ve always been put off by the robotics exhibition that everyone keeps talking about.
🙂 well-done. what i would take paragraphs to write, you accomplished in one sentence (and that snappy handle).
the belle of the ball desires none. but what do you do when you get lonely, nayagan?
A lot of pre-Islamic architecture was destroyed by Muslims. In Delhi and other places. That being said, no doubt Mughal architecture is beautiful.
200 · rec1man said
mendacious comment to say the least. that rally seemed to be about mumbai.
My post was removed because I dared to point out the blatant anti-India and pro-terrorist cartoons on a magazine, quoted approvingly by the blogress?? Nowhere in my post did I use racist, abusive, illiterate, content-free commercial language. Neither was it personal or non-issue-focused, intolerant and anti-secular.
I know. I posted couple of links detailing Indians in pro-Israel rallies and they are summarily deleted. While jeering posts painting ‘South Asians’ who’re pro-Israel as Hindu ‘fundoos'(a term wholly used by the Razarkar diapora) is permitted.
Anyways, here some pics and videos from a huge Indian Rally outside the UN http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/12/india-free-men.html
Another huge Pro-Israel demo with Indians in NYC. Hindu’s for Israel was my personal fav(5th pic down). http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/01/nyc-pro-israel.html
And as far as Taz goes I won’t be surprised if SM signs up Natacha Paracha as another featured blogger. Maybe both can team up and do an expose on “Hindu(I mean Fundoo)-Zionism”.
rec1man said: I am here as an active Hindu who is concerned by the ever increasing menace of Islamic Terrorism. We in India have suffered heavily at the hands of the Islamic Terrorism for 14 centuries. Latest episode of Jehadi attacks in Mumbai is still fresh in everyone’s mind. Israel and India represent oldest civilizations and they both also have similarity in that they have a neighbor who is bent upon destroying their existence. In both cases, the neighbors are using radical Islam to justify their heinous deeds against humanity. I believe that Israel has the right to defend itself against the naked aggression by Hamas. If the Jehaids are left unchecked, the whole civilized world would be in great danger of cultural suicide. While our organization cannot take a position on it because of its charter, I support this demonstration and I am sure I represent views of thousands of Hindus from India who live in the United States when I say that I wish Israel success in its efforts to eradicate the evil of terrorism by using all the means at its disposal.
I have to say, I really don’t understand this. One can be opposed to Islamic Terrorism and STILL see that bombing a civilian population mercilessly is not the means to that end. Someone please explain to me how this strategy achieves that supposed aim – of “eradicating the evil of (Islamic) terrorism”. Frankly it sounds more like, “we’re going to make you live through hell because a lot of you are Muslims, because some in your midst are members of Hamas, and for the fact that you dare to demand freedom of movement, for access to food, water and nutrition – cause we cut you off from that for two straight years.” The fact of the matter is there are certainly SOME in Gaza who are firing across the border, Israel has also subjected the Gazans to inhumane conditions – ALL Gazans, even little kids, women, and men who have nothing to do with Hamas. That is not a smart strategy – just perpetuates a cycle of violence.
I am Hindu and i support Israel 100%. I even went to a pro-Israel rally.I didn’t see Taz there. Oh wait she was to busy with the anti-jew and pro-hamas demonstrations
LOL–I love that slip into the passive voice–“have been lost”–kind of like the Romans “lost” Carthage? Oopsie-daisie! 😉
Thanks for the link to the Das article.
ps. It was that same civilian population in Gaza that got Hamas elected. If you vote for a terror organisation than you are also responsible for their actions.
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, Instead of peace they got rockets fired at them from Hamas- a islamic terror organisation. Even during the so called truce they were firing rockets into Israel, smuggling weapons in and trying to dig a tunnel into Israel (offcourse with bad intentions) The border is shut because Israel doesn’t want to let in the suicide bombers (perfectly understandable).
About the deaths: MOST of them are Hamas members (this is accepted even by Hamas). Those civilians that died, well that’s unfortunate BUT in every war civilians die (collateral damage). It is not like Israel is deliberatly killing civilians or trying to do a genocide in Gaza. If that was the case than all Gaza palestinians would be death by now. It must also be accepted that Hamas USES the civilians as a human shield. That is a FACT, there are many youtube vid’s where you can see Hamas leaders proudly saying that they are using civilians as a human shield. They are also using places like mosques, schools etc etc to hide their weapons or to fire at the Israeli’s from those positions. ONLY Hamas is to blame for the civilian deaths.
Those muslim terrorists that attacked Mumbai and many other places in India have the same ideology as those Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists. India and Israel, Hindus and Jews face a common enemy. It is a enemy that wants to conquer and destroy our lands and people. That’s why i SUPPORT ISRAEL FULLY
It is ludicrous to compare Hindus who are a majority of the population that originated in India and never left and the Jews in Israel. The racist reactionary thread that seems to be ghostwritten by Cheney or Wolfie wannabees sicken me.
You know people say that Israel is commiting a genocide in Gaza. Well if that’s the case why have the population numbers in Gaza been growing year by year????????? It is a very strange genocide if the people that are meant to be annihilated grow in population numbers year by year instead of shrinking.
Go Israel, Go Israel, Go Israel
215 · Ponniyin Selvan said
what do you mean by “Technically?” Beyond the (failed?) nuclear deal, there have been joint military exercises paid for by the U.S., sharing of weapons technology, funds for upgrading security technology (which obviously went into somebody’s pocket instead of defense.) You are right about plans. One of the reasons for the (failed?) nuclear deal was for India to be the ally to counter China in the region.
228 · Gopal said
The Arab birthrate is higher than the Jewish-Israeli birthrate in and out of the state of Israel
“this is not a football game” what are you go go going for Israel for ?
to kill more people, eliminate the people in Gaza?
“win” a war? which is not possible unless they use the only nuclear weapons in the whole middle east in which case they would probably end up destroying their own country in the process.
The answer to this question is complex but personally i think this has been a very illuminating thread. On the one hand, some think like archana:
But yet others think like Deepak:
of course the issue can be seen both ways: as thru the anti-colonialist lens or as resistance to islamic fascism. and both views are interestingly anti-racist. but we also see here the limits of identity politics, or more specifically, where identity politics– by attempting to identify a correct viewpoint based on the experiences of domination of poc–starts paralleling traditional racism by denying the diversity and thus full humanity that exists in non-white cultures.
i side more with deepak but i’d like to think i’d have the same views even if my relatives weren’t threatened by islamic supremacists. after all, isn’t that what we expect from whites: to stop being ethnocentric and start seeing the world beyond the narrow focus of their own self-interest, their own experiences?
I’m in favor of any political system that gives more rights and freedoms to women than the next guy. Whether they look like me or not.
what do you mean by “Technically?” Beyond the (failed?) nuclear deal, there have been joint military exercises paid for by the U.S., sharing of weapons technology, funds for upgrading security technology (which obviously went into somebody’s pocket instead of defense.) You are right about plans. One of the reasons for the (failed?) nuclear deal was for India to be the ally to counter China in the region.
http://www.allbusiness.com/government/277045-1.html .. This is part of the first instalment of a $701m out of the historic $3 bn economic and military assistance package announced in Camp David on June 24, 2003. .
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/24/pakistan.pentagon.money/index.html
Report: $6 billion in aid to Pakistan poorly tracked STORY HIGHLIGHTS Pakistan has received $5.56 billion in military aid meant to combat terror Report says the Pentagon cannot prove funds have been spent properly Defense Dept. defends Pakistan’s contributions, acknowledges accounting concerns
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The United States has not accurately tracked about $6 billion it gave to help the Pakistani government fight terrorism since 2001, according to a report released Tuesday.
Pakistan is the largest recipient of payments from the Coalition Support Funds, which gives money to 27 partner countries to help combat terrorism.
The country, which the Department of Defense considers a key ally in the war on terrorism because of its proximity to large swaths of ungoverned tribal land, has received $5.56 billion of $6.88 billion given out since September 11, 2001.
Ahmed Rashid claims in his latest book that Pakistan got $10 billion since 2001 from the US as aid.
The “nuclear deal” is neither a failed one nor an “aid” package offered to India. It is a deal between two countries. I’m surprised that you think joint military exercises amount to bilions of dollars. Are you a “progressive” ?. 🙂
207 · rec1man said
Your “approximations” are nothing but self-aggrandizing BS in that hilarious example of brahminical hubris and deceit. No wonder that only a racist like Steve Sailer would publish that piece of crap.
97 · Zainab said
This the most truthful and meaningful post made here especially since it is written by a desi muslim, yet everyone has studiously ignored it. Why?
97 · Zainab said
the “saud” family did not rule that area until the 1700’s so the prophet muhammad was NOT a “saudi” he was arab though. the land was not always “saudi” arabia. it only became that country in the 1900’s.
97 · Zainab said
Apparently, in the middle east, even Pakistanis consider themselves racially superior to Bangladeshis, and feel the need to remind everybody around them that, they are not “Kala [black] bengali or malyalee”. [Muslim solidarity, my kundi]
As the prophet muhammad was not a “saudi” i’m not sure how that stands. (I get it , those are his words, not your’s).
227 · Fazgun said
I don’t intend to spend much time here debating and commenting BUT i do want to post a small reply to the posting of Fazgun.
We live in a free democratic society in which each of us has the right to form and express a opinion independently of what others think is right or wrong. I have formed and expressed my opnion, as is my democratic right. It saddens me that Fazgun than calls my posting a ‘racist reactionary thread’ and calls me a ‘Cheney or wolfie wannabees’ (whatever the hell that means) . I am sorry but i refuse to fall in line with all those pro-palestinian anti-Israel comments. That is my democratic right and NO ONE can force me otherwise. I REFUSE to be intimidated by Fazgun calling my posting a ‘racist reactionary thread’ and calling me a ‘Cheney or Wolfie wannabees’. It is easy to post such CRAP BUT it is difficult to refute my points on their merits. Fazgun has clearly proven that he can’t debate and he can’t refute my positions on their merits (and i don’t think he will aver be able to do it) instead he resorts to pointless name calling. How pathetic of Fazgun. You have clearly LOST the argument Fazgun.
BTW if you are sickend by my posting than you are a very very weak person:) Please drink some warm chicken soup so you can get better soon.
ps. For now this will be my last posting as i have no intention of wasting much of my time on this site. Bye bye loser Fazgun i’ll see you around.
Bye Bye Deepak
Why do islamic terror attacks occur so frequently ?????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtePF8p-eIo
enjoy !!!
For Granny/Caetano- the “replacement” wasn’t “mutual”- and it is indeed sad that many Mizrahi (Oriental Jews) felt they had to leave. That also is a complicated situation. In some cases, in North Africa, French colonial policy had already created a very negative situation by setting up a multi-tiered social structure which privileged Arab/Berber and Sephardic Jews (those who fled Spain during the Reconquista), Arab/Berber Christians over the Muslim population so there was a sort of 3rd and 4th class situation, thereby creating some really serious inner friction. In other cases, the Palmach/Mossad set up provocateur incidents to convince the Mizrahim that they were in danger( Iraq, Syria). And, of course, there were horrible locally produced incidence. When the Mizrahim arrived in Israel, most were considered backward at best, and suitable only for manual labor by the Ashkinazim. Starting in the 80’s many left, often going to France or the US. Starting in the early 90’s, a number have been returning to Tunisia and Morocco. Morocco, in particular, has been restoring old neighborhoods and temples. Moroccan Jews were protected by the Sultan of Morocco during WWII when Vichy France asked him to hand them over. The Sultan told Vichy that there were only Moroccans in Morocco and if they were going to take anyone, they would have to take him first.
And, yes, there has been talk of compensation and the right of return.
And I think there is another thing people need to think about in discussing who goes where- just because one is an Arab Palestinian does not make one the same as a Lebanese, Egyptian or Tunisian, just as being an Ashkenazi Jew is not the same as being Sepharid or Mizrahi or even an Ethiopian (Falasha) Jew.
I have a simple question for Fazgun and Ven: True or False, Does the charter of Hamas call for the elimination of Israel?
bamtram (@ 236), I too found her (Zainab’s) post very illuminating, and I largely agree with her sentiments.
Generally speaking, as others (manju) have pointed out, this is a complex issue: On the one hand, I have sympathy for the Palestinians who I feel have gotten a really raw deal, both from the Israelis and from their arab neighbors who claim to support them. It was no accident that Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait resulted in the Palestinians in Kuwait reasserting themselves and settling scores with many Kuwaitis.
On the other hand, I cannot really support the arab neighbors of Israel (and Hamas) on this matter, for I know that their agenda is not simply an agenda to provide some justice and comfort to the Palestinian population. Theirs is part of a larger agenda which I want to have nothing to do with, since it also includes the targeting of all non muslims in the region and beyond. I am ever mindful of the fact that the Saudi government with all its wealth from selling oil has consistently backed the most bigoted and racist strains of radical Islamic thought throughout the world, and has provided the financial wherewithal for many of the Islamic terrorist organizations that exist today. It is really difficult to make common cause with organizations like Hamas, or even the Arab neighbors of Israel, who if they had their way would be happy to allow the current Israel population to be massacred (for starters).
Two really good pieces, with plenty of food for thought:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2009/01/06/gaza_war/index.html
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/01/04/terrorism/
And thank you, Taz, for blogging on this really important issue. I’ve been concerned with the fact that, like the mainstream US media, Sepia Mutiny too seemed to have chosen to ignore something of such importance, funded as it is by the 3 billion dollars a year for 10 years of US money and unlimited diplomatic support!
225 · rob said
ok, rob, i didn’t say anything when amitabh made the comment, but delhi has a lot of old hindu monuments that couldnt have survived to be destroyed by the mughals. it is, as you know, a city with a very long history (not a couple hundred years, but a lot more than that :)) second, for the stuff that is approximately from the same time as the mughal era, is not getting preserved (organizations like INTACH worked very hard to change that). if it is in private hands, people just sell it because of the propert values. secondly, i’ve come across no evidence that an important hindu monument was destroyed IN DELHI because of mughal invaders (i’m not denying that wars in delhi musn’t have caused collateral damage (but the worst of them was probably in 1857, after the British were determined to avenge the mutiny), but i’m sure your friends from the hindu right would have let us know if any monument of importance was destroyed with intent. they love that sort of thing). the passive voice was delibrate word choice: to indicate that natural processes may have destroyed the monuments that probably existed since 300 BC. nothing to do with mughal damage. it’s easy to make allegations without proof. as soon as you tell me which delhi monument was destroyed by mughals only due to prejudice against hindus, i’ll happily revise factual errors in my position.
232 · Manju said
i agree with you that having a south asian heritage can lead you to either position. i also like your point that self-interest and affinity (basically identity politics) need not be the only consideration in articulating our position. but i think the two viewpoints you present as two ends of the spectrum are creating a false dichotomy. you could say you support israel’s right to exist, while acknowledging its creation by the british was an arbitrary and convenient process. further, you can say that the palestinians need an autonomous state of their own, and their right to statehood cannot be sacrificed for israel’s defense. there has been an injustice done here (clearly the british had no right to disburse territory). yes, a two-state solution is the hardest outcome to achieve, but there are many reasons to think that it is the most fair outcome.
to those who think that jehadi terrorism will stop if all hindu swear allegiance israel and the US: well, i just don’t think that makes sense. i am sure that even if the palestinian-israel issue was resolved, the extremists aren’t going away (do you think mullah omar and his ilk are going to satisfied with anything other than a theocracy the world over? palestine is an emotive issue which they’ve chosen to adopt. if that ends, they can use kashmir, chechnya, even the muslim minority in china etc). all we can do is to make sure that the extremists are choked of their money, resources, arms, and new recruits. that also entails not alienating the moderates.
Port, what are they feeding you?
249 · rob said
yeah, ok, look at what i said:
and read this from wikpedia:
timur was fuled by personal ambition. if you’ve ever taken a course on medieval indian history (and i’m just saying this without superiority; it’s difficult to convey emotion online), you’d learn that whenever these guys commissioned their biographies, they made themselves look like protectors of islam. and when they had to motivate their armies, they used jihad. you’re making a big mistake if you take these biographies at their word (which i’ve seen lots of amateur “historians” do online) . it’s basically shilling. that’s not how one reads primary texts. you know that, rob.
using religious propaganda to insidious ends? to feed personal ambition? now when have we not seen that? 🙂
Port, No, I’ve never taken a course on medieval Indian history–I’ll be upfront about that. But what exactly is your position about why there are a lot of Hindu temples in S’rn India/Sri Lanka and not so many in Northern? I mean, some things are clear enough to not require hi-level exegesis. And I’m not disposed to go rattling on about this subject–I’m a live and let live type of guy, what annoys me highly is the attempt to say “up is down” as in “Rome didn’t fall to the barbarians–yeah, those were–ummmm–nice tourists who moved into Italy.”