Earlier this year, wedding bells in California started ringing for people in the gay and lesbian community when the California Supreme Court ruled that denying same-sex couples the right to marry violates the promise of equality in the California Constitution. But all that might change on November 4th.
Proposition 8 eliminates the right of same-sex couples to marry. Changes California Constitution to eliminate right of same-sex couples to marry. Provides that only a marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.[NoOnProp8]
Desis in the GLBT community in California have been getting organized. Down here in Southern California, Satrang has been taking the lead and showing up at events and handing out educational materials to push for no on Prop 8. Bay Area based Trikone has stepped it up and taken it further. They took out an ad in India Currents with the following poster:
The Mutiny is a a sucker for the advocating Nanis/Dadis and this poster of the the grandmother holding her granddaughter is just too adorable. Her message?
My grandkids, Mira and Kabir bring so much joy to my life. Our desi traditions have flourished with my son, Inder and his partner, Ken. But Prop 8 threatens to take away our right to a happy home by banning my son from marrying his life partner. Please help us protect our family and the rights of my grandchildren.
Inder and Ken and their family were profiled in India Currents earlier this year.
Inder, a dermatologist, and his partner, Ken, a Corporate Officer, first started talking about children in Spring 2003 when they became domestic partners. “We are both from large families,†Inder explains in his considered, correct way, “and it seemed like a natural progression to have our own kids.†Today they are a family of four: Inder, Ken, Kabir—who is two and a half—and Meera.[IndiaCurrents]
Their families have have been very supportive in the raising of the children.
“Our families are our biggest support groups,†[Inder] says, “We both have large, extended families. Here’s where the embracing, extended Indian family—with its Aunties who want to fatten you up for your own good and third cousins whom you have to see every month because they are family—can actually be a powerful support structure. But often, in South Asian communities, [Bay are psychologist] Amlani explains, there isn’t much support from the family for same-sex partnerships.[IndiaCurrents]
There are other rights that the couple have to struggle with outside of the right to marriage – the access to immigration. Inder is an immigrant whereas Ken isn’t.
Inder and Ken do face some other issues that heterosexual parents don’t. Immigration, for one. The Federal Defense of Marriage act defines marriage as a “union between one man and one woman†(This means that opposite sex spouses can be sponsored, but same-sex partners can’t).[IndiaCurrents]
Proponents of Proposition 8 argue that the state of California has a domestic partners law in place that gives same-sex couples the same rights and benefits as married couples. While this is true, opponents of the proposition say that California’s constitution guarantees equal rights for everyone, therefore same-sex couples should also the right to legal and recognized marriage.[EasyVoterGuide]
Either way you feel about the issue of same-sex marriages, this is an issue that affects the South Asian community. Here’s what Runa @ UberDesi has to say:
Take a look at her two cute grandkids – how can the government deny them the right to have married parents? And in case you are still against gay marriage – here is a thought: No one is forcing you to have one. Why are you denying a section of society which is voluntarily accepting the rights and obligations of marriage the same opportunities as the rest of us to either make a grand success or a miserable failure of it?[UberDesi]
For more information on Proposition 8, you can visit the Yes campaign here and the No campaign here. For a non-slanted perspective, you can check out the League of Women Voter’s non-partisan Easy Voter Guides for information on Prop 8 and all of California’s Propositions for this upcoming November 4th Election.
Yes, (sigh. . . ) how sad it is for our gay desi brothers and sisters here in the USA–back in the Desh, they would never be treated so (well, to be honest) well! This is truly a unifying issue around which to rally Desis.
Those kids look half black to me. Are they?
Those two men are hot, and with all that money they make, I wonder if they’d wanna adopt me. lol They could be my daddy..
I just want to say that I admire the grandmother Gurkirpal Kaur Dhillon for the support that she shows for her son and his partner. She must not care what the other aunties say behind her back. Good for her.
We need more of such granmas in India as well!
When a two same sex people are living together you CAN NOT call that union a marriage. Mariage is between a man and a woman, all hindu scriptures are very clear about that. in the scriptures you can NOT find a reference to a sanctified wedding for 2 same sex people. When you call a union between two men or women a marriage you ridicule the meaning of the word marriage
it was really painful for me to see a rare moment of unity between biden and palin when both firmly affirmed their lack of support for gay marriage. and thanks to the calif supreme court ruling, which is based among other things, on the idea that same sex benefits is a slippery slope to same sex marriage, many states are not even likely to provide the basic right of same sex benefits – something that palin strongly reaffirmed in her answer.
what’s your position on polyandry, polygamy, and bestiality?
5 · Nan said
@Nan: You do realize, of course, that everyone living in the United States is not Hindu? And that the constitution of the United States, other than casual and general references to God, is, in fact, a secular document? I respect your personal beliefs and your scripture, but it is wholly inappropriate to use it as an argument when discussing the citizenship rights of Americans.
Gay marriage should only be discussed within the context of the one scripture that all American citizens are legally bound to agree upon: the Constitution of the United States.
Awww what a heartwarming story. I am hopeful that even within the desi community more and more tolerance will be created and I think it helps to further the dialog when there is also a strong heterosexual support system to those that are homosexual. I had a friend recently come out to his parents after all the so called “normal” people around supported him and convinced his parents that it was OK and that he’d be just fine. The support system in this context is priceless.
dude. i agree with you but i think you’d be surprised with how open minded folks are. the ‘gay’ movement is new but gays have been around forever – and have been absorbed in society in different ways. history is replete with references. one just has to know where to look. of course that’s the way it should be – when people dont really care who one’s partner is and one doesnt need to advertise one’s sexuality via a flaming pink tutu.
segway – my annoyance is with progressive hotheads who lay forth on to the perceived status quo with a spray of rabid virtuosity, and with the weirdos who walk around putting their genitalia on display.
of course the situation is shitty if someone has to stay in the closet for fear of life. I also understand where you are coming from. [I tink you are from Vancouver, right?]. For general consumption, Vancouver is supposed to be a very tolerant society. Even so, there have been two recent incidents that are ugly beyond measure. A terrified Mr Webster was seen running naked out of Stanley Park, chased by a crowd holding pool cues. he later ended up dead. In the last couple of weeks, a guy was beaten up and broke his jaw. Among the accused is a guy named Kandola [which sounds like the desi].
Awwww… What a cool grandmother. Bless her.
Coming out to family is a huge struggle (for me atleast) and I hope that my parents can take it as well as Gurkirpal Kaur Dhillon has.
I am sorry to hear that. I have cousins who struggled with this for long – but dont underestimate your parents’ (and cousins’) love for you, however conservative they appear to be. 🙂
Haven’t commented in quite some time, but I am touched by this. I don’t have any grandparents left so I think I will adopt this woman as my patti. I am a straight-y but I think it’s really awesome to see desis out and proud and even better when the families are supportive.
I’m sorry, I need to get on my soapbox/high horse/etc for this comeback comment. I think Runa’s right, what do people care if two dudes (or chicks) want to get some wedding presents and have a piece of paper stamped and have a legal bond. How is it affecting most of those fervent opposers? Are you paying more taxes? Is God going to hate you more because you let this happen? I mean, what the hell, look at those babies. They are ADORABLE and obivously cared for and loved, which is more than i can say for many kids who come from ‘traditional’ families!!
I think the government should stop using the word “marriage” and only use “civil union” for both homosexuals and heterosexuals. That would lessen the confusion about secular and religious institutions.
Way to go grannie! If only there were more like her in our community. I’m sure they are there, but probably are more low key about it….due to those aunties gossiping behind their back. 😛
@GreenDaddy Yeah, me too.
5 · Nan said
Sweetheart, there is nothing in hindu scriptures that says Marriage is between a man and a woman ONLY. 1. Remember that woman who married a snake in India recently? 2. Remember that man who married a dog/bitch in Andhra Pradesh? 3. Remember Aishwarya Rai married a tree (because of her dosha) ?
So, don’t give me bullshit about “man and woman” in scriptures.
And about “ridiculing” the meaning of the word “marriage”, how does the current divorce rate not ridicule the sanctimony of marriage? How does Britney Spears’s overnight marriage guffaw not ridicule the sanctimony of marriage?
And you have the gall to call marriage between two loving, devoted people, who happen to be of the same sex, a ridicule on marriage? Fuck you, Sir.
thanks for this post Taz. It’s heartwarming AND practical and effective 🙂 Write more! 🙂
@ Nan:
These people that you are referring to are NOT Hindu, they are Sikh and there is, from what I know and believe, in my scripture only the statement that marriage is between two souls that will enable and further one’s movement toward liberation and towards good integrity in life. I cried when reading this post because I know that whether I was gay or straight, my parents would be with me as well and they would use Sikhism as a backbone towards integrity and NOT towards judgment.
I am so proud of Inder and his mother for this type of enlightened relationship, Waheguru knows we need it!
As Tina Fey/Palin said: I believe marriage should be between two unwilling teenagers.
Yay on her for standing up and publicly supporting her family! I’m sure it takes courage on her part.
Although gay marriage is not the nearest, dearest cause to my heart, I am SO happy to see some desi, intergenerational pride. I wish all LGBTQI-ers had the same kind of loving families at their backs. Go auntie!
Pure nonsense.
M. Nam
That’s all you can do for trolling? Maybe you should pray to Ayyappa some more. Oh, and Ayyappa is the product of a gay union. Either Hindus are more progressive that you imagine, or Hindu gods are way gay.
Taz! This was a great post. Thanks for doing it. And bravo to India Currents and Trikone for hosting and submitting the ad, respectively. Squish, that grandma is soooooo cute!
Adorable! How sweet that when the mom’s waters broke the two fathers went on an emergency shopping spree for baby clothes and stuff. This grandma is also a great mother and mother-in-law.
13: Thirded.
Lizzie, ….Although gay marriage is not the nearest, dearest cause to my heart, blah , blah , blah
What’s with the mental sashaying?
That was actually touching, but this grandma’s love for her gay child makes god angry and makes him send hurricanes.
22 · pingpong said
Wow. This thread seems to already have descended into misinformed Hindu-baiting. Congratu-****ing-lations, perhaps someone can stick a paddle up your ass.
Neale, I’m not sure what you mean by “mental sashaying.” In the phrase you quoted, I just meant that although I’m queer and my partner is queer, neither of us are really drawn to the fight for gay marriage. There are other LGBTQI issues about which I feel much more strongly, deeply, personally.
But I understand that to some gays and lesbians, it’s their #1 issue — and it makes me really happy to see a grandmother stand up for her grandson and in-law. Marriage or not, that kind of public familial love is rare . . . and very very cool.
[I tink you are from Vancouver, right?]. For general consumption, Vancouver is supposed to be a very tolerant society. Even so, there have been two recent incidents that are ugly beyond measure. A terrified Mr Webster was seen running naked out of Stanley Park, chased by a crowd holding pool cues. he later ended up dead. In the last couple of weeks, a guy was beaten up and broke his jaw. Among the accused is a guy named Kandola [which sounds like the desi].
Yes the young Mr.Kandola is a desi. After the attack, leaders in the gay community came out said that they have noticed that alarge amount of the attacks on gays in Vancouver the past few years were being done by young Indo-Candians males[mostly young punjabi jatt males who think they are Tupac or 50 cent but that another story]. I have friends who are gay and they have told me being of threatened alot by young south asian males. This attack took place on Davie Street which is the heart of the gay Vancouver community. So Mr.Kandola and his friends may have been looking to start something.
Of course after this news came out, the leaders in the South Asian community starting say that homophobia is not a problem in our community. Now that’s funny.
12 · CoffeeFace said
Thank you for posting, Taz. As a queer desi (holla, we exist), I’ve been phone banking in LA for ‘No on Prop 8’, but I’m terrified of campaigning in Little India, where I grew up spending Saturdays eating bhel at standard sweets & snacks. It’s a very odd and unsettling to have two aspects of myself (both of which I’m proud of) contradict a bit.
We have a lot of work to do but this thread is evidence (I count 29 supportive posts to one) that the times are a’changin. I don’t think my parents’ generation had glbt issues on their radar, i’d be interested to know if other SM readers discuss gay marriage with their parents?
CoffeeFace, I couldn’t have said it better myself. I still don’t understand what is so darn threatening about normal, boring families wanting to raise kids and have the same rights as every one else?
For anyone considering on voting for the ban, I want to address the claim (by proponents of the ban) that I’ll be treated equally regardless of whether marriage is legal. It’s great that the constitution makes it illegal to fire or hurt me just because I’m gay, that’s a step (which only became official in 2005, btw). But without marriage, I won’t be able to adopt kids, visit my (future) wife in the hospital or share benefits to name a few. That’s the equality that committed gay and lesbian couples deserve. and unwilling teenagers.
Ok, off the soapbox, thanks for listening.
About supportive desis : My personal coming out record is somewhat similar to 29:1. Almost every Indian friend that I have come out to, has been very positive. I think its all the cultural “diversity” we live in (in India) and the acceptance that it brings. So, yea, I’m thankful to be blessed with great friends.
Granny’s just in it for the grandchildren! And who can blame her.
On a lighter note, was anyone else reminded of this skit from GGM? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjNmXkzuYrg
Hehe.
Ha! Or Russell Peters, “We are Indian and we are gay!”
5 · Nan said
dear, im pretty sure they are sikh, and even if they were, they have no obligation to practice/continue practicing it. its their choice. they could be atheistic.
and what was that about hindu scriptures? Well hindu scriptures define marriage as union between two atmas. supposedly in ur next life you can be a different gender. which means atmas are not any gender. physical body is meaningless in hindu scriptures. whether u have a penis or a vagina, wellll, thats sounds physical to me.
and its great that u have your own religious beliefs, but do you really think you should be implementing them on other ppl?
31 · Amita said
Holla back 🙂 I can relate to your fear from past experiences – but I interviewed people at queer pride in Jackson Heights a few years ago and although there were some desis who were overtly obnoxious, more frequent was either fear to say that they were homophobic or this one wonderful woman who said “why shouldn’t they have the same rights as my children.” It’s a fun experience – asking queer people what they think of immigrants and immigarnts what they think of queer people. Anyway, would be amazed if you could get to Little India, but woudl be happy to bond over fear if you can’t – that can be fun too 🙂
Anyway, two things – one- get the hell out of your hometown unless you actually want to be there. It’s bad enough having desi family obligations, but compounding that with a sense of alienation from queerness? Ugh. I eventually left the U.S. altogether. Granted, India drove me insane because of precisely the issues you raised (see note below though), so I moved again. Oh well – happier than ever where I am now. And if and when I go back, it’ll be on my terms, not anyone elses.
2) Intersectionality can feel horrid. But if you can make intersectionality itself your space, then it can be the best of all possible worlds and you meet all kinds of interesting and nutty and fun and even queer people 🙂 Audre Lorde put it much better:
I’ve raised gay marriage with my mom a few times. I invited her to my (non-existent) wedding – mainly to see how she would react. She said she’d show up. That was really warming. Her best friend’s son is also gay, which is fortunate for us all. There have been much less good times too with my family, and, for now, I don’t identify as gay (mainly because i want to keep my options open–there are some fine looking desi women out there 🙂 — but also because i have trouble with it all and need to resolve it internally)
My usual response to marriage stuff though is – I’d rather have free health care or someone to address the racism within the LGBT community. But I’m probably being curmudgeonly, as usual, out of trepidation.
…but to close, i just wanted to put my hand of support and friendship out there as someone else in the house of difference 🙂
*note on India:
found my generation of upper class Delhi/Calcutta to be a wondrous world of open marriages, wife swapping, straight and queer people having sex in the same room (though not at the same time or with each other unfortunately), drinking vodka karaoke-at-home and crossdressing, working class barbers getting advice from their queer customers about how to seduce women and then seducing their bhabis.
Yes, this is perhaps an undercurrent to a larger context of absolute horridness on many fronts, but these generalizatons about what “India” is like and what it is not are all so much … essentializing? And on what basis? Because our parents sexually repressed us? 🙂
Suki Dillon
Ouch. I was afraid of that. Oh hell. Time to swing the gandassa of whoopassa.
fallen jhumki
wow! that’s deep, man.
Dr. Amonymous, if you’re in this part of the U.S., you may be interested in this conference taking place next week: http://www.pace.edu/page.cfm?doc_id=11280
38 · khoofia the atma said
actually im a girll, lol and try not sounding like that after 12 years of balavihar.
This grandmother gives me some hope. So many people are still against giving us equal rights, hearing the hate makes me worry about what will happen in November. My own dad has made it pretty clear he’s voting yes on Prop 8, and knowing that your own dad has that position hurts a lot. It’s hard to say how much impact this ad will really have on our community, but it is really cool to see it 🙂 I think when people begin to understand that some people (desi or otherwise) in the queer community want to start families and have serious relationships, and when the law says we’re entitled to equal rights, the nation will begin to realize gay marriage isn’t really that radical an idea.
Bigots should be denied basic human rights. But let me be clear: I respect bigotry as a choice. Some of my best friends are Sarah Palin.
With respect to a larger discussion, I don’t understand this. Are these folks hung up about the word ‘marriage’? or are they clamoring for equal rights? If its, the latter, I understand and support it. Orientation is a personal choice, and its absurd for someone to have better rights just cos they have an opposite sex partner. But if the hullaballoo is about redefining the word ‘marriage’ – I can see where people would get turned off, especially desis. I guess most desis fall into the tolerant category – but they also like to keep it to “don’t ask, don’t tell”. If the LGBT community insists on a redefinition of traditionally accepted behavior and flaunting it – it is understandable that a large majority of the people are going to be uncomfortable. In most ‘supportive’ desis, there is a huge amount of hypocrisy – it is usually support-as-long-as-it-doesnt-affect-me. We desis are, by nature, a bit reserved and don’t like to stir up controversy. We also are very strongly affected by the what-will-others-think syndrome which keeps us from showing explicit support to a cause which in addition to being controversial affects a very small minority within us.
39 · goriwife said
Thanks! I got the hell out though. I get free health care now.
🙂
Oh it’s most definitely in Hindu culture… anyone heard of the term kliba?
There is plenty of gender-bending/gender-switching in the Hindu epics, so I highly doubt that there’s any real cause to get so up-in-arms about it. The Pandavas and Kauravas were descended from one such couple.
Back when people needed to have more kids, I can understand how a taboo against homosexuality would develop, but now, we have so many ways that homosexual couples can have children, ranging from adoption to using a surrogate, and kids have a much better chance of survival now, so it’s not like entire communities are going to die out if it stops being a taboo. There are so many people who genuinely want to be married, and to be accepted for their lifestyle choice, and they are certainly entitled to it.
43 · balbrain said
Think about it this way – when immigrants move to a new country, they can culturally try to assimilate or they can try to keep to their own norms while demanding equal treatment. Similarly, LGBT people can try to assimilate to heteronormative (i.e. man-woman-marriage-kids blah blah) ideas, or they can try to create their own (i.e. sexual liberation – which involves all people, not just same-sex attracted people). Marriage is our green card, and causes the same kinds of mixed feelings I think (at least among people who are self-reflective). Of course, for some of us, marriage actually IS our green card, but I’ll let someone else introduce citizenship issues for now 🙂
So where we run into problems though is that marriage defines a whole set of rights from visiting your partner in the hospital to inheritance to all kinds of things. Personally, I could, at this point in my life, give a flying f about fitting into notions of marriage most of the time, but I’d like the rights that human beings ought to have. And if I ever want to get married for love, I might change my mind.
I don’t buy the defense of the desi “community” though. As Chris Rock says, everyone has at least a gay cousin. By that standard, this affects a lot of people, and if more people talked openly about this, it would be better for everyone. Rigidly straight people would probably benefit the most, based on one experience I had talking about lgbt issues to a mostly straight audience who deal with similar problems of being in the closet about partners (because of race or something else) or all kinds of other things. Just imagine its halloween – but the whole year!
But, if you want to stay in your cupboards and shiver in fear, by all means…don’t let me stop you–you’re loss. I’ve got a life to figure out how to live – if you want to come along for the ride, you’re welcome to.
For all those people who fervently claim that this sort of nothing has never been in Hindu culture… I point you to this.
When ancient Hindu society had ways of integrating and peacefully accommodating those people who didn’t fall into the usual heterosexual categories, why are you so up-in-arms about it? There are plenty of instances in Hindu mythology as well, that have gender-bending/gender-switching. Manu’s daughter Ila did it. Krishna did it. Even Shikhandi has somewhat ambiguous gender status.
People have got to stop being so uptight. If a homosexual couple wants to be married, and be acknowledged as being married, where’s the harm in it? They’re perfectly wonderful people who want the same happiness as everyone else.
“The man who was a woman (and other queer tales)” by Devdutt Pattanaik is a decent intro. [google: limited preview]
Off-topic, but can’t resist:
Yep. Healthy people pay for it.
M. Nam
Hi, My grandmother back in the capital of India supports my LGBT cause. She even came to the last year pride and caught media attention. Take a look here :- http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-11-29/delhi/28255279_1_lgbt-sexual-identity-gay-members