And now, some interesting news from down under. The beautiful country of New Zealand is in the final process of rounding up 40 illegal immigrants (aliens? undocumented workers?) of Desi descent who entered the nation under the guise of a Catholic pilgrim group. The 40 had entered New Zealand in the run up to the Pope-sponsored World Youth Day in neighboring Australia –
About 220 Indians came to New Zealand as part of Days in the Diocese, a pre-World Youth Day event that gives pilgrims time with Catholic families and acclimatises them to the host country’s culture. For the first time, Days in the Diocese was extended beyond the host nation, with Sydney’s organisers asking New Zealand to be included.
During those days, though, 40 Indians went missing at different times in what appears to be an orchestrated attempt to stay in New Zealand.
…Parish priest Fr Peter Murphy said host families were “obviously upset” that the young people went missing, some leaving in the middle of the night - even jumping out windows.
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p>Interestingly, the local Sikh society played a key role in the drama & in rolling up the ring –
Scamsters in New Delhi had reportedly told them they had bought the right to live in New Zealand – at around $17,000 each…[Sikh Society spokesman Daljit] Singh, who has been in contact with some of the missing Indian pilgrims, says some are as young as 16 and thought they were coming here to study.But he says it is very upsetting for all the pilgrims, as they are now realising they have not bought a new life and were cruelly swindled.
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p class=caption-text style=”font-size: 80%; margin: 3px 5px; line-height: 110%” >Anand Satyanand, the Governor-General of New Zealand – Probably worth a blogpost at some point 
; FWIW, he happens to be Catholic.
The 39, masqueraded as Catholics while some are Muslims and Hindus, were billeted with Catholic families in Auckland on their way to the celebrations in Sydney.New Zealand Federation of Ethnic Councils’ president Pancha Narayanan said that some Bollywood movies are portraying New Zealand as an easy destination to migrate, thus giving a wrong impression.
For me, having spent a good chunk of my life in 2 states grappling with illegal alien (errr.. “undocumented immigrant”?) problems, one of the most interesting aspects of this was the crucial role played by the local (documented?) immigrant communities. Although sometimes stereotyped as turning a blind eye if not actively encouraging illegal immigration, in NZ the legal immigrant community was instead instrumental in lawfully & humanely rounding up the 40 –
[3 men] made their way to Tauranga, where they had heard there was a large Indian community and good prospects of finding work, and paid a taxi driver $550 to take them.[Sikh Society president] Manprit Singh said he had agreed to provide the men with shelter as long as they fronted up to Immigration New Zealand, and he encouraged the remaining 36 men to do the same.
Manprit Singh brought the three men to Auckland to meet officials yesterday. Daljit Singh was also at the meeting. He said the men were told they had to comply with their visas, which expires on August 5 or they will be “forcibly removed” from the country.
….A further 12 of the group that went awol have made contact with the Society in the past day and Daljit Singh said he was trying to arrange for them to meet immigration officials.
…The New Zealand Indian Central Association yesterday urged its members to help the authorities trace the remaining missing men, whom a Department of Labour spokesman said they were still trying to locate.
Some of the statements from the broader Indian community leadership are particularly fierce and it’s unlikely we’d ever see the equivalent from the leaders of LULAC –
[NZ Indian Association general secretary Veer] Khar says they are trying to stay illegally in the country and the Immigration Service should be doing all it can to catch them. He hopes immigration comes down hard on them and sends them straight back to India, saying they are damaging the reputation of all Indians in New Zealand.[Indian NewsLink Editor Venkat] Raman says it is extremely naive to think money can buy them residency in New Zealand. He says they should have known they would not be able go to a western country without proper documentation or secure employment.
I suspect for many, the reaction of the local legal immigrant community to the illegal newcomers is an interesting socio-political litmus test. At least in this case, when their loyalty to the Rule of Law in New Zealand was pitted against co-ethnic loyalty to fellow Desis…. Rule of Law won. Should, whether & to what degree this happens in other communities & countries is a crucial, if not well articulated, underlying factor in the (illegal) immigration debate world wide.
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[UPDATE] Since a bunch of the comments are interested in what I personally do (or should) believe about this case, lemme put a few simple points out there
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I make a strong distinction between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigration
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LEGAL Immigration is GOOD–> there should be more, of all races, creeds, ethnicities, etc.
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ILLEGAL Immigration is BAD –> there should be less, of all races, creeds, ethnicities, etc.
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I think the “documented” vs. “undocumented” language is occasionally silly, often intentionally obfuscating, and at worst, tries to introduce a 3rd rail by casually making opponents sound racially opposed to all immigrants. The central distinction isn’t whether an immigrant carries “documents.”
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Opposition to Illegal Aliens on a Rule of Law basis is radically doesn’t make you racist / classist / etc.
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too many counter-arguments depend on blithely introducing racial / ethnic / class / “uncle tom” / etc. 3rd rails
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I certainly have a tremendous sympathy with the plight of the individual illegal alien (not unlike the sympathy I have for stories of parents who steal to feed starving children)
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If there were no positive rights with living in the US, I’d consider making ALL immigration legal
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Given that positive rights are here to stay (and, in all likelihood, will increase), the distinction between LEGAL and ILLEGAL becomes even more material in the future
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The socio-cultural pervasiveness of respect for Rule of Law is one of the primary things that makes some countries fantastic places to live and others crap…. so, I’m generally impressed with the NZ Desi community
you mean refugees ? Refugees have a separate visa category and Australia has one of the highest refugee intakes in the world. Unlike say Japan. People smuggling is full blown business like drug dealing.
You’ve got your chronology mixed up…I’ve been alerting SM to the MFA/Pomona menace for months and you decided a few days ago to present yourself as “MFA” to play my nemesis. But in my mind’s eye I am thinking about some hybrid of Gore Vidal & Praful Bidwai(though I would definitely count you among my adversary’s henchwomen). I haven’t bothered to read your posts in this thread and my comment was directed to the ur-MFA in occultation that was speaking through Nayagan(i.e. not you) so my phobia can’t be blamed in this case.
Melbourne Desi, if you are saying “Don’t do illegal stuff because you don’t want to get in trouble with the law”, I totally agree with the approach. People break laws such as immigration laws either because they are desperate (which I don’t think is the case here) or because they expect to get away with it. There is no saying whether a particular legal or illegal immigrant will actually be a law abiding, honest citizen (whatever that means) given an opportunity (there is NO level playing field anywhere). Most people also have an intuitive understanding of laws that are based on moral grounds or commonsense and others like taxation and immigration, which may have nothing to do with morality. People even in semi-failed states are more likely to break taxation laws rather than murder or rape. I know I only pay taxes because I have no choice.
Australia’s example is actually ridiculous because of the history of the society and immigration here. Your position seems to be that you have actually worked hard to escape an unjust, chaotic society and you don’t want this country to turn into one. But there are other people who also want that, some of them can do it the ‘right’ way and some of them would take the easy route if they could. Some of them just want to go where they think life is easy. They are the one taking the risk, so warn them of practical problems by all means, but don’t tell them they shouldn’t because – they should respect the rule of law. They can see and observe how the world actually works, like the rest of us.
Rule of law? Please enlighten me how you can live in a country created by convicts and lecture people about the rule of law?
precisely coz I live in a country that was created by ex-convicts. Incidentally USA was used a dumping place for convicts before the Revolution.
I hate taxes but without taxes there are no cops / roads and libraries. Nanda – thanks for your explanation but I have to disagree with you. It is the law coz it is wrong not the other way around. Murder is wrong and hence there is a law against it. Is illegal immigration wrong ? To me, yes. To others, maybe not.
In 1700 India and China were 52% of global GDP, that’s some 300 years ago.
Rule of law? Please enlighten me how you can live in a country created by convicts and lecture people about the rule of law?
The convict population was a minority of the population then, most were free settlers who were paid to move and those who came to seek a fortune. Most were sent for crimes like vagrancy or petty crime. In present day Oz 25% of Australians are born overseas, you thus have a large percentage of the population consisting of immigrants and their children or grandchildren.
The British sent 60,000 convicts to the American colonies. Over half the whites immigrants to America between 1600-1700 were indentured servants or slaves, mostly Irish.
12 · Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery said
ABDs without sympathy and respect for all those backward, embarrassing 1st-generation immigrants? Even more unheard of!
I love how it’s the ABD commenters who are criticizing DBD immigrants for not wanting poorly-educated people to immigrate. Right, because you all are SO friendly and welcoming toward ‘fobs.’ You haven’t made countless movies mocking them and portraying how much they embarrass you, nope, certainly not!
107 · Samir said
South Australia where I reside, unlike say Victoria or NSW was founded by free settles, and has the distinction of being the only colony in Australia to have been founded thus. Does that mean I can lecture you on the rule of law?
ABDs without sympathy and respect for all those backward, embarrassing 1st-generation immigrants? Even more unheard of! I love how it’s the ABD commenters who are criticizing DBD immigrants for not wanting poorly-educated people to immigrate. Right, because you all are SO friendly and welcoming toward ‘fobs.’ You haven’t made countless movies mocking them and portraying how much they embarrass you, nope, certainly not!
Do you know me? Do you know where I was born? You are not disagreeing with the subtance of my criticism but only suggesting that ‘they’ do it too which is apparently supposed to make it all better. I have noticed an attitude in a lot of professional Indians in the US, where there is a very high level of apathy towards co-nationalists who work at 7-11 or are illegal or do menial jobs. Some of it is a reflection of the strong class hierarchy which exists in India and follows Indians outside India.
To prevent further confusion:
no, i am not an MFA (or anarcho-capitalist).
no, I do not think that standing immigration laws should be routinely flouted–provided that they are not leveling punitive punishment on the law breaker (unless you equate this kind of unlawful behavior with homicide)
yes, ‘rule of law’ is important to discuss but can only be realized (i.e. a state of ‘rule of law’ as opposed to the contextual ‘rule of law’ where you get sent to Kerobokan for 20 years) when everyone is obeying all laws–which requires that all laws not conflict with others, not constrain the mobility of labor or capital, not limit civil liberties, etc etc.
Naturally a state of ‘rule of law’ can’t exist and a contextual ‘rule of law’ is extremely undesirable. An approximation, however, can exist and is highly desirable. In those approximations, the pressing need is to identify all the laws that are most important to preserving the ‘rule of law’ culture. IMO, these are not the welfare-reducing (thanks, rob) half measures we institute in a hasty attempt to sew up the fistulated womb of the welfare state.
107 · Samir said
ok, mel d was strongly going for the prize with his arguments, but you’ve swept him in the idiocy race with just one priceless comment. congrats!
I’m not familiar with too many DBD-made movies that mocks ABDs. I’m not familiar with too many DBD-made movies, period, let alone “countless” ones that mock ABDs.
102 · louiecypher said
I operate alone, sweetheart. I’m that good.
Do you fancy yourself a 21st century Joe McCarthy?
Don’t flatter yourself.
It is quite obvious that Nayagan was not advocating with doing away all laws (as he clarifies at 111). You are either dumb or deliberately obtuse. Take your pick.
Dumb! I must be since I didn’t write that bit about doing away with all laws, I just haven’t been able to figure out the quotes feature.
It’s adorable that you are getting all bent out of shape by my MFA & Pomona schtick. Didn’t even know that Pomona offered an MFA. Don’t get bent out of shape, you helped flip me
116 · louiecypher said
I would return the compliment too; but, then again, this doesn’t sound like something that would pour forth from Mr. Adorable’s mouth.
117 · MFA said
That’s sad, I thought we had a “moment”. I was flipped and acknowledged my mistake but you still hold that over me. Must all my love be unreciprocated? Waaaah…
99 · MFA said
I am that cool and it’s true that I am awesome. Thanks. (I’m more opposed to coercive hierarchy than I am to “laws” I have agreed to honor–neither master nor slave like.)
96 · Neale said
Yes. Starting with in-laws.
96 · Neale said
Some on this board might agree with doing away with Allah, whereas opponents of Sharia would be happy just doing away with Allah’s laws. Takes all types…
Where’s Lou Dobbs and Tom Tancredo when you need them.
121 · Suki Dillon said
I give up, where?
@109 & 112
I was quoting Eurodesi at 104 and responding to his comments did not include quotes, my bad
118 · louiecypher said
What’s a “moment” going to do when you have insurmountable competition in the room?
Louiecypher, the above is intended as a rhetorical question. I am letting you know just in case your humanities aversion has adversely affected your literary interpretation skillz.
the most amount of migration has happened within developing countries itself. such as the millions of afghans in iran and pakistan. 100 000 tibetans in india, people moving countries in africa.
94 · melbourne desi said
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again–it’s high time to repeal the law of supply and demand because it is in conflict with US immigration policy. Who does Adam Smith think he is, anyway?
Thanks for the compliment MFA, and though I may be picky, I’m hardly insurmountable. 😉
When will you liberal fascists realize that the campaign to ban alar was based on phony science perpetrated by enviormental wackos in cahoots with the liberal media?
126 · Harbeer said
I think it was already repealed by those who claim there is no way poor americans will do the jobs illegal immigrants take.
Fine with me. But what do we do with all the Bjorns and Egors?
See? I really am a glibertarian.
Maybe we should have the choice to obey ’em or not obey ’em. We’ll call ’em bi-laws.
104 · Eurodesi said
Well the Australians have apologised for the mistakes of their convict forefathers – Australia apology to Aborigines
129 · Manju said
I knew you were going to ask that. We lock ’em up with Jude, of course.
132: Well the Australians have apologised for the mistakes of their convict forefathers…
Well, it’s all good then, innit? Political stunt by a man who may increasingly look like Howard the longer he stays in office, is what I think. Rudd is a smooth operator though, I have to agree.
Btw, the whole convict shtick is really silly and tiresome.
133 · Harbeer said
Now you’re talking. Its Miller time.
135 · Manju said
Not if you like them with Frost.
114 · Krish**** said
You are an idiot.
How many of these ‘Indians from New Zealand’ have you met? What age group where they?
Actually the apology was for the stolen generation. So it was only for one genration of aborigines who were forcibly taken away from their families and placed with whites families. It was not an apology about conquest of Australia or any other mistreatment.
135 · molson twin said
that’s lawless
138 · Manju said
(getting back on topic) that’s only a problem if you are xenaphobic.
You got it mixed up. I’m referring to ABD-written/produced/directed/’acted’ movies such as Where’s the Party, Yaar?, American Desi, Ludakrishna, etc. They usually don’t reflect that ABDs have much respect for ‘fobs.’
I honestly haven’t seen this, but I don’t doubt that it exists to some extent. But you’re doing the same thing– saying that since some desis who immigrated previously treat fobs like crap, it’s okay if ABDs do it too. And I will bet anything that if one were to conduct a study of this (though I don’t know who’d waste money on this), the average former FOB is more likely to be friendly to a new FOB than an average ABD, who is too busy trying to avoid embarrassment and trying to prove how cool, hip, progressive, etc. by claiming to speak for the ‘underserved desis’ everywhere while actually just being pretentious jerks.
P.S. I love how this class hierarchy attitude apparently only carries over with Indians, but not with people from other countries on the subcontinent.
P.S. I love how this class hierarchy attitude apparently only carries over with Indians, but not with people from other countries on the subcontinent.
I cant speak for all groups but Pakistanis are pretty bad as well.
But you’re doing the same thing– saying that since some desis who immigrated previously treat fobs like crap, it’s okay if ABDs do it too.
No, I am not saying that. Nobody should treat recent immigrants badly, period.
140 · apth said
I actually just conspicuously start bowling at a single stump, brown people magically show up and join in an impromptu game. I didn’t know that was a pretentious dick-move.
140 · apth said
I think most FOBS are attracted to most ABDs since the former consider the latter the living epitome of MTV and Hollywood stars – cool, hip and allrounders both in academics and sports. The only DBDs that prob give the ABDs some decent competition are probably the rich folks from Dilli or Mumbai.
I think most FOBS are attracted to most ABDs since the former consider the latter the living epitome of MTV and Hollywood stars – cool, hip and allrounders both in academics and sports.
Good point. The ABDs are well know for their athletic prowess. Case in point, the 600% over representation of ABDs in sports like NCAA Football/Basketball or Professional Sports like NBA/NFL.
Nicole Kidman, the desi enamor of all things and people phoren is fast wearing off. These days, this, is the standard ABD caricature.
The eighties called and they want their stereotypes back.
143 · Nicole Kidman said
Back in the desh, I still remember those innocent days when my prepubescent friends and I used to get all worked up at thought of our favorite teen-sensation Scripps National Spelling Bee Contest desi-American winners. But in the final reckoning, the mathletes turned out to have more integrity. Respeck.
143 · Nicole Kidman said
ABD speaking here. I can’t stand most ABDs. To generalize, I find most of them to be vapid, materialistic, sheltered, and not very curious about the world. In other words, boring mama’s boys/daddy’s girls. (There are, of course, exceptions, and I’ve got some great ABD friends.)
The DBDs I meet, on the other hand, tend to be pretty intelligent, engaged in the world, adventurous, self-reliant, and don’t have as much “macho” type bs to prove–and I mean DBDs who might be working as truck drivers, movers, convenience store clerks, grad students, and even professors.
You are comparing a segment of the population that had everything spoon-fed to them as they were sheltered from any hardship (most ABDs) to a segment of the population that left everything familiar behind to establish a new life in a sometimes inhospitable country so they could help out folks back home (most DBDs.) ABDs might have the latest Banana Republic gear and the latest pop dance moves, but if that’s the advantage you’re claiming, you are a bigger joke than you think.
These are, of course, nothing but my own unsubstantiated prejudices. Does this make me a self-hating ABD?
Nicole Kidman, in Tamil Movies they have a separate comic category – America Maapillais (Grooms)
143 · Nicole Kidman said
Nicole, you forgot another important observation. DBDs smell of Chicken Tikka Masala, while ABDs smell of Chanel No. 5.
(For the record, Nicole Kidman is so over the top, I have to think it was joking.)
136 · NZer said
I second this response – Indians in New Zealand are a extremely heterogenous goup – from IndoFijians (Muslim, Hindu and Christian blue AND white-collar workers), expat Indo South Africans (such as my brother’s girlfriend) also of various religions, 3rd or 4th gen Sikh and Hindu farmers and DBD Sikh farmers in the produce growing districts, white-collar professionals arrived within the last 20 years from India in the big cities, etc. Yes we have a Desi Governor-General. We also have a prime-time desi new-reader (out lesbian) Rebecca Singh, news reporters such as Arrun Soma (and others). Sukhi Turner (a Sikh born and raised in India) was for six years the mayor of Dunedin – our 4th largest city. Araahdna Patel (Indian/Samoan) is a popular singer/hip-hop artist… the list goes on.’ A lot of people don’t know that among some of the first Pakeha (non-Maori) to live amongst the Maori here were various ‘Lascar’ seamen (ships often had mixed crews in the 1800’s) who had jumped ship and some of whom left descendants here.