And all she got was a bun.

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Wow, more weird India news! Yay!.jpg

Allow me to preempt someone from asking why I chose to write this story. No, really, let’s get it out of the way, this nimisham:

• Did this really have to be blogged?

• Slow news day?

• Aren’t X,Y and Q more important?

• And furthermore, doesn’t your lack of blogging X,Y and Q indicate that you are a heartless bitch who doesn’t care about Pakistan/the Nuke Deal/the environment/immigration??

Yes,

maybe,

perhaps and

refer to my finger, for that last one. It’s an extra-challenging week at work, so I can’t write anything dazzling, not that the performances which I usually phone in are sublime. I don’t have much time, but when something’s on my mind, it’s easier (read: cathartic) to type, so a “Musings” post it shall be.

Unless you were the last person to be found during hide and seek yesterday, you have heard the cringe-inducing-on-so-many-levels news about an Indian man “marrying” a dog (thanks, Aggiebabe). It is somewhat like the whole “Aish weds trees…twice”-fiasco…except in TMBWITW’s case, she was doing it to compensate for her apparently unfortunate nakshatram and not because she had killed two trees.

An Indian man has “married” a female dog, hoping the move will help atone for stoning two other dogs to death.
P Selvakumar, 33, said he had been cursed since the killings, suffering paralysis and a loss of hearing.
The wedding took place at a Hindu temple in Tamil Nadu state. The “bride” wore an orange sari with a flower garland and was fed a bun to celebrate.
Superstitious people in rural India sometimes organise weddings to animals in the hope of warding off curses.[BBC]

Buried among the hundreds of jokes which punsters are giddily guffawing over (enjoy your free pass to bitch about how the bride is a bitch…but more on that later) is to me the most appalling aspect of this story; this man killed two innocent, defenseless creatures.

I didn’t know how he killed them until I settled in to my seat on the subway this morning and found out that he had stoned them. That detail bothered me so much, because my imagination doesn’t need any assistance in recreating actual events. Have you ever seen an animal cowering in front of a human? Yelping and whimpering out of fear and pain? It’s heartbreaking, but that’s what this so-called man saw, as he brutally stoned two dogs. I remember the way our late German Shepherds looked terrified and anxious, when they were merely being scolded…and that was after they had committed capital offenses, like uprooting our only curry leaf plant.These dogs must have been perplexed as to why they were being hunted down by this sadist. The whole crime makes that red, squishy thing in the middle of my chest ache a little bit. Achtung, it’s lame that I have to assert this, but I’m not some granola-lite, bleeding heart Aggie who puts the welfare of puppies over people—no, I’m someone who, like most of you, is well aware of the connection between perpetrating violence against animals and committing it on humans.

Many studies in psychology, sociology, and criminology during the last 25 years have demonstrated that violent offenders frequently have childhood and adolescent histories of serious and repeated animal cruelty. The FBI has recognized the connection since the 1970s, when its analysis of the lives of serial killers suggested that most had killed or tortured animals as children. Other research has shown consistent patterns of animal cruelty among perpetrators of more common forms of violence, including child abuse, spouse abuse, and elder abuse. In fact, the American Psychiatric Association considers animal cruelty one of the diagnostic criteria of conduct disorder. [woof]

Dogs and cats are simple, available targets, and practice makes perfect, if the definition of perfection involves torture and murder. What else has this person done? And to whom? And I recognize that I was born here, in the first world, that I am privileged because of that and thus view this news story through my very American eyes, but at least I’m aware of this heinous flaw o’ mine. At least I am ashamed that I have this privilege to be bothered by what some consider a triviality.

But he killed two dogs. That’s all my mind returns, when I pause between Outlook storms. Maybe I should add the Humane Society to my slowly-expanding list of Causes on Facebook, since I’m obsessed with this. And dogs in general (and this cat, but she’s the exception which proves the rule).

Back to our story- after slaying two canines, the groom lost his hearing and according to most stories I’ve read, became paralyzed. Obviously this is divine retribution for being such a flaming merde-bag, oui? Oui. How could one fix this? But of course! Have him marry a dog! Easy atonement, even as such atoning is gleefully retold the world over, ensuring that some desi kid at a less progressive, less diverse school– like the ones I went to– will be having a GREAT recess and lunch period.

Crowds cheered the newly-weds at the end of the ceremony in Sivaganga district, about 50km (30 miles) east of the city of Madurai.
The “bride”, who is called Selvi, was led to the temple in Manamudurai wearing a sari before vows were exchanged in a traditional Hindu ceremony.
A relative of the groom who attended the wedding said he hoped Mr Selvakumar would now be cured.
“Fifteen years back Selvakumar was physically fit. But, once he attacked a pair of dogs and thereafter Kumar could not move his limbs freely,” the relative, Ramu, told the BBC.
“He tried every cure for his ailment but could not be rid of his disability.
“On the advice of an astrologer and others, he decided to marry a bitch to get cured. Then we arranged Selvakumar’s marriage with a bitch.” [BBC]

Who is going to look after that bitch and protect her from abuse–no, I don’t want to get in the possibilities– or is the prevailing assumption that he’s learned his lesson and now will behave? Speaking of “bitch”, that is the final snag on my mental stockings—the B word. Is “bitch” commonly-used in India? Does it have the same connotations? Yes, it’s an even more trivial triviality, atop that other triviality, i.e. my soft shpot for dogs.

This entire story leaves me feeling weird and I don’t feel like I have the “privilege” to explore one of the other aspects of it, which is bothering me- religion. I don’t know enough about Hinduism and though I eat like one, I’m certainly not Hindu. What does this story tell the world (or us, or martians, or…) about religion and what we are willing to tolerate within it?

Then again, maybe there’s some weird Christian tradition that makes even less sense to some girl in Madurai*, I don’t know. Maybe she’s not even thinking of such things. Maybe she’s already rolled her eyes, written this off as mega-superstitiousness which has nothing to do with her or the life she leads, and moved on. I wish I could shake this or make sense of the maelstrom this story evoked within, as easily.

*the closest city to where this happened, I think.

410 thoughts on “And all she got was a bun.”

  1. We love domesticated, traditional house pets (especially dogs) so much, pet crap is now a $15 billion a year industry.

    Is this real pet feces we’re talking about or metaphorical crap like the collars and sweaters and bath products and stuff?

  2. Other people I know are more aggressive about asserting their non-Hindu religious identity, sometimes due to a genuine reverence for their own religion that they wish other people would respect, sometimes due to condescension toward the backward masses of India, sometimes both.

    Nala, I hope you don’t find me “aggressive” about asserting ALL parts of my identity. I hate these either or questions, like “Are you Christian first or Indian first?”. They’re simplistic and not productive. I love being Malayalee just as much as I love being Orthodox and I refuse to choose.

    One of the reasons I talk about Christianity is because I have the opportunity to do so; I personally and perhaps unreasonably feel the need to prove that not every Christian wants to convert you or thinks you are going to hell. I love Kerala because Hindus, Muslims and Christians are more chill about each other and I wish that other areas had that sort of dynamic. I don’t approve of aggressive conversion techniques, viewing people as “backwards masses” or any of the other things certain much-more-recent-to-India Christian sects are doing in the country.

    All I ask for is mutual respect and recognition that

    a) there are people who think Christians are less Indian because of their faith

    b) it’s worth calling that (and similar attitudes towards Muslims etc) out.

  3. It occurred to me a bit after that, that perhaps that was a very Western approach, since some of my friends who are not ABDs find the typical American relationship with pets amusing: the expensive collars, the wool sweaters, the doggy health insurance to cover doggy prozac. We love domesticated, traditional house pets (especially dogs) so much, pet crap is now a $15 billion a year industry.

    One of my uncles in India had a white fluffy dog (see, this is how much I don’t care for animals, I don’t know anything about breeds…) for more than a decade that he had a very close relationship with and basically treated as the son he never had. The dog got to sleep on his bed and always had the entire household’s attention on him. He died recently, and he was cremated and people were called for a meal just like when a human dies, and my uncle is still despondent about it. On the other hand, my uncle also trained a scary big black dog to be a ‘guard dog.’

    Anyone else noticed that Indian-Americans also tend not to own pets?

  4. 250 · nala said:

    but people identify themselves as “of a certain religion” first, and Indian second, I guess.
    I don’t. Then again, I’m Hindu. Other people I know are more aggressive about asserting their non-Hindu religious identity, sometimes due to a genuine reverence for their own religion that they wish other people would respect, sometimes due to condescension toward the backward masses of India, sometimes both.

    If you’re Hindu, you don’t have to. Unless you’re wearing a skullcap or a turban, third-parties will probably assume that your brown skin makes you Hindu (see A N N A @ 249). I just wonder exactly what you mean by “the backward masses of India” because the way you wrote it, you seem to imply that non-Hindus are “the backward masses.”

    Anyway, if anybody catches any flak for this story about how dogs are treated in India, refer your tormentors to those f-ed up Nicaraguans, that’s what I say.

  5. ANNA-

    So anyone who doesn’t agree is automatically a troll? That makes things a bit clearer as to why all the commenters who stay long term are usually the ones who trip over themselves to compliment every post.

    Anyhow, you don’t have to “say” on here that “Christianity is the only path to salvation” because it’s right there in black and white, in the Bible. The only path to God in Christianity is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, just like the only path to God in Islam is submission to Allah. On the other hand, Hinduism makes no such pronouncements regarding exclusivity or the misguidedness of other faiths. So while you may not be trying to disparage “the faith of your ancestors” the beliefs to which you claim to subscribe already do that.

    Here’s an idea, write one post, just one that highlights SOMETHING negative regarding a Christian in India or the missionary movements. You won’t, I know, because then you would have set back “the cause” which you are always covertly fighting for.

  6. To support what Anna said about Americans spending money on pets, Americans are forecasted to spend upwards of $40 billion in 2007, break down of this number and more stats here.

    With regards to my handle being brown, I have consistently used for the past few months, will think about changing it to something less vague 🙂

  7. I hate these either or questions, like “Are you Christian first or Indian first?”. They’re simplistic and not productive.

    These questions might be simplistic or unproductive in the US. but in India, they may be very relevant, in particular with political issues are brought to hand, as ethnicity, social status/rights & religion are so (unfortuntely) intertwined.

    I don’t know though, having never actually lived in India.

    For example, I identify as Hindu but grew up putting up a tree every xmas (a synthetic one, but hey it’s still a tree) so this marks as an ack of the majority religion holiday, but it doesn’t “compromise” my identification as a Hindu, cuz in the US, religion and political identity aren’t really overlapped. (Unless you’re Bill O’Reilly)

    I don’t imagine xtians in India putting rangoli or any of the other decorations associted with the Hindu holidays, because the history of how religion has morphed into “political identity” in India. but again, I dont know, so can’t say for sure.

  8. It occurred to me a bit after that, that perhaps that was a very Western approach, since some of my friends who are not ABDs find the typical American relationship with pets amusing: the expensive collars, the wool sweaters, the doggy health insurance to cover doggy prozac.

    Health insurance for pets is not a luxury anymore. I took my cat for some teeth cleaning the other day and they wanted 300 dollars. I am looking into getting insurance.

  9. 257 · Hillside said:

    Anyhow, you don’t have to “say” on here that “Christianity is the only path to salvation” because it’s right there in black and white, in the Bible.

    Please get off your soapbox, oversensitive troll. This mental masturbation of yours is surely against the Laws of Manu. Really, don’t get me started…

  10. Anyone else noticed that Indian-Americans also tend not to own pets?

    That’s why it was such a huge deal to me when I finally was allowed to get a puppy, senior year of college. At least in my family’s social circle, no one had cats or dogs. Occasional goldfish (not that those lasted long), maybe a small bird. But even that was considered “different”.

    It was kind of confusing, too, because there were dogs at my relatives’ homes in India and some of them were as coddled as you describe. 🙂 I think for my parents, it had to do with not wanting fur on everything or inside the house, period, (which is why our dogs were outside dogs in Sunny Northern CA). That turned out to be a wise move– my mom and sister are both way allergic.

  11. With regards to my handle being brown, I have consistently used for the past few months, will think about changing it to something less vague 🙂

    You might want to, if only because we deleted a troll’s comment this morning which had been up for a few hours, and their choice for a handle? “Brown”. You don’t deserve to be lumped in with them. 😉

  12. Anna, There is definitely a same dynamic as Kerala in Mangalore and Goa. Even at a macro level there is no problem with regards to peaceful coexistence between people of different faiths in bigger cities like Delhi and Bombay. A lot of good schools in bigger cities are convents and kids of all faith attend these schools. I know people who are both Muslim and Hindus that went to convents for their entire school lives and even sang hymns for morning assembly and had no problem with it. I feel a lot of snarkiness comes due to the anonymity afforded by internet communications. I don’t think anyone has a right to make you feel guilty about your faith, especially when you come across so tolerant of everyone elses.

    HMF, To answer your question about Rangoli, all my Christian and Muslim friends celebrate Diwali and Holi if it means anythig.

  13. HMF, To answer your question about Rangoli, all my Christian and Muslim friends celebrate Diwali and Holi if it means anythig.

    Really? In what way? just curious

  14. The people I know visit their hindu friends’ house and sit for puja, I have friends who light diyas in their own houses.

  15. Health insurance for pets is not a luxury anymore. I took my cat for some teeth cleaning the other day and they wanted 300 dollars. I am looking into getting insurance.

    ACfD, could there be a market for pet medical tourism in India in addition to the current medical tourism for humans?

  16. Here’s an idea, write one post, just one that highlights SOMETHING negative regarding a Christian in India or the missionary movements

    Here’s another, better idea: recognize that your dislike for me blinds you from seeing reality. When CHRISTIAN assholes interrupted the first Hindu prayer in the Senate, I was completely mortified, anguished and outraged, and you’d know that if you read the post I wrote regarding it.

    There’s your one post, just one. I don’t give anyone a free pass for being a douchebag, regardless of whether they are Christian, Malayalee, female, a Pixies fan or any other identifying trait which I share. It’s insulting that you insist on bravely calling me out for shit I don’t do.

  17. Nala, I hope you don’t find me “aggressive” about asserting ALL parts of my identity. I hate these either or questions, like “Are you Christian first or Indian first?”. They’re simplistic and not productive. I love being Malayalee just as much as I love being Orthodox and I refuse to choose. One of the reasons I talk about Christianity is because I have the opportunity to do so; I personally and perhaps unreasonably feel the need to prove that not every Christian wants to convert you or thinks you are going to hell. I love Kerala because Hindus, Muslims and Christians are more chill about each other and I wish that other areas had that sort of dynamic. I don’t approve of aggressive conversion techniques, viewing people as “backwards masses” or any of the other things certain much-more-recent-to-India Christian sects are doing in the country. All I ask for is mutual respect and recognition that a) there are people who think Christians are less Indian because of their faith b) it’s worth calling that (and similar attitudes towards Muslims etc) out.

    anna, I don’t think you are ‘aggressive’ (I think you’re very respectful and I hope I come across as the same); I was talking about some of the attitudes that I see among my peers (though it applies more to Muslims than Christians). My boyfriend is likely descended from the same people you are sometime way far back, but he’s made some dumb comments, among them, ‘Why do you wear that [Sai Baba] necklace? People will think I’m Hindu too!’ Some of the Indian Muslims I know try to assert that they’re descended from the Nizam of Hyderabad or something, when they’re just as dravidian-farmer-descended, likely a product of generations of cousin-cousin and uncle-niece marriage, as I am. I’ve also noticed this attitude of ‘we’re the REAL Hyderabadis!’ among Hyderabadi Muslims, which I find annoying as a native of Hyderabad. I also call out my relatives when they make comments like, ‘Wow, he speaks such good Telugu for a Muslim’ regarding the Hyderabad police chief. (Hmm… these sentiments are very Hyderabad-centric). So I’m all for people recognizing all their identities.

    are you actually indian, or are you a ‘merkan? (out of curiosity)

    indian-american… what kind of question is this?

  18. ‘Why do you wear that [Sai Baba] necklace? People will think I’m Hindu too!’

    Shirdi or Sathya?

  19. Please get off your soapbox, oversensitive troll. This mental masturbation of yours is surely against the Laws of Manu. Really, don’t get me started…

    Harbeer,

    New acronym for the aggrieved: The Wrathful Saffron Balls Brigade (TRSBB, IN THE HATIN’ HOUSE!!)

    Hinduism makes no such pronouncements regarding exclusivity or the misguidedness of other faiths

    And your source for that one would be…that central text that all Hindus follow and rely upon for advice on daily life? Let me know when you’ve found it.

  20. If you’re Hindu, you don’t have to. Unless you’re wearing a skullcap or a turban, third-parties will probably assume that your brown skin makes you Hindu (see A N N A @ 249). I just wonder exactly what you mean by “the backward masses of India” because the way you wrote it, you seem to imply that non-Hindus are “the backward masses.”

    That’s why I said that I don’t specify that I’m Hindu; I’m aware that people assume that Indian = Hindu. As for the “backward masses,” it’s pretty obvious from context that I mean the attitudes of the unreligious/Muslims/Christians who look down on the ‘backward idol-worshipping masses.’ You’d really have to strain to see something else in that statement.

  22. Anyhow, you don’t have to “say” on here that “Christianity is the only path to salvation” because it’s right there in black and white, in the Bible. The only path to God in Christianity is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, just like the only path to God in Islam is submission to Allah. On the other hand, Hinduism makes no such pronouncements regarding exclusivity or the misguidedness of other faiths. So while you may not be trying to disparage “the faith of your ancestors” the beliefs to which you claim to subscribe already do that.

    Yes, A N N A, we tolerant Hindus believe that the very fact that you are a Christian makes you scum, independent of the views you actually expound on.

    ACfD, could there be a market for pet medical tourism in India in addition to the current medical tourism for humans?

    What about mail order canine brides? About time for some body shopping in the other direction, isn’t it? It would at least make Lou Dobbs happy.

  23. My boyfriend is likely descended from the same people you are sometime way far back, but he’s made some dumb comments, among them, ‘Why do you wear that [Sai Baba] necklace? People will think I’m Hindu too!’

    Sigh. And what would be so wrong with that.

    This reminds me of a friend in college, who was Egyptian. Once when we were going to the mall, some girl said, “Now that is one FINE brotha” as he walked past. He freaked out. “I’m not your BROTHER!”

    To me he asked, “Does she think I’m BLACK? Oh my Gawd, do I look black?? Is it my HAIR?” The last bit was comical, because he was wearing his beloved Kappa Sig baseball cap, so you couldn’t even see his hair (which was kinky, it turns out). I asked him why it bothered him so much and all he could come back with was, “I don’t want people to think I’m black!!” Why? Who cares? And if it’s because you don’t want to be treated differently in any of the negative ways which are possible, then isn’t that an opportunity to experience a different life for a few moments and thus, grow some compassion?

  24. For what it’s worth, I cringe whenever a Hindu makes a statement about how Hinduism is better than Christianity because it doesn’t preach fire and brimstone, eternal hell, blah blah blah. The funny part is, usually these people are not really that religious, or that charitable in any aspect.

  25. “Here’s an idea, write one post, just one that highlights SOMETHING negative regarding a Christian in India or the missionary movements. You won’t, I know, because then you would have set back “the cause” which you are always covertly fighting for.”

    I noticed Sepia Mutiny has so many posts about Gujarat 2002 and little indignities Muslims or Christians in India suffer (“they thought I was Hindu because I am Indian waaah”).

    However hardly any attention is paid to the millions of Hindus ethnically cleansed from pakistand and Bangladesh over the last 60 years or the organized and deliberate attempty to destroy what remains of Hinduism in malaysia and Indonesia. Also no posts on the Hindus that keep getting blown up by bombs which adds up to thousands of Hindu casualties every year – like 2 or 3 9/11s happen to Hindus in India every year, its just spread out voer time and place.

    And the Orientalist attitude towards Hindus is also tiresome. How many times have Hindus on the blog been lectured to by non-Hindus that they ought to be nonviolent (AKA pasive) and Hinduism is plural therefore anything can be Hindu and Hindus ought to accept anything- not true! Anyone notice these non-Hindus don’t demand their own religious comrades to adhere to the same values?

  26. To me he asked, “Does she think I’m BLACK? Oh my Gawd, do I look black?? Is it my HAIR?” The last bit was comical, because he was wearing his beloved Kappa Sig baseball cap, so you couldn’t even see his hair (which was kinky, it turns out). I asked him why it bothered him so much and all he could come back with was, “I don’t want people to think I’m black!!” Why? Who cares? And if it’s because you don’t want to be treated differently in any of the negative ways which are possible, then isn’t that an opportunity to experience a different life for a few moments and thus, grow some compassion?

    This is hilarious. It’s also kind of foreign to me, and probably an indicator of how much youth culture may have changed since then, but some of the Indian (and one Egyptian) boys I know operate under some weird principle of, ‘I am a light-skinned brown god. But I also reserve the right to use the n-word.’ Sure, they’d like people to think they’re ‘tough’ (I’m saying that this is their perception of black masculinity, which [the perception] is generally divorced from a political context since they haven’t achieved such high levels of thinking yet), but then something like this happens and they’re happy going to tennis lessons instead.

  28. (“they thought I was Hindu because I am Indian waaah”).

    I never said that. And it’s awful to imply I did. I mention the “Hindu presumption” because it’s ridiculous how some people seem to think that Indian Christians have it different (and easier?), here, in a country where the assumption is, if you are desi, you are Hindu. Muslims and Sikhs who grew up here have commented about that, too. None of us have said we were traumatized or insulted when we were mistakenly placed in the wrong religious box. Your statement is hurtful and dishonest.

    I write certain fluffy/feelings/musings/identity posts on this blog because so many of us have felt the same things and this is a unique space where we can discuss or laugh about these shared experiences. It’s disheartening to see people twist my words to suit their purposes. It’s just plain rude to call me a crybaby, when I didn’t ask for your pity, just your courtesy.

  29. Shodan,

    Thank you for the suggestions, I like Umber as it rhymes with amber (sky).

    Jgandhi, Why don’t you write the posts yourself and I am sure if the posts are interesting people can come to your blog and flame you.

  30. I cringe whenever a Hindu makes a statement about how Hinduism is better than Christianity because it doesn’t preach fire and brimstone, eternal hell, blah blah blah.

    define better. If you mean “more tolerant of other faiths” then you shouldn’t cringe at the truth.

  31. Anna-

    Notice, I did say “In India”. We all know how you like to get your dander up about any perceived anti-brown prejudice here in the U.S.

    As for the examples you cite, I could refer to your countless attempts to strip the religious significance from Hindu holidays, or your incomprehensible defense of Nina Paley’s grossly offensive and anti-hindu cartoons. OR talk about your repeated attempts to bring up issues such as female infanticide and frame them in a “Hindu” context because god knows Christians don’t have abortions. Anyhow since you already spelled out your agenda cleary:

    a) there are people who think Christians are less Indian because of their faith b) it’s worth calling that (and similar attitudes towards Muslims etc) out.

    As long as you believe this, surely you can understand that opposite also occurs: Christian and Muslims often ridicule Hindus for what they perceive as backwards beliefs. So if you are so (admittedly) hyper-defensive, why are you so shocked to see it among others?

  32. I cringe whenever a Hindu makes a statement about how Hinduism is better than Christianity because it doesn’t preach fire and brimstone, eternal hell, blah blah blah. define better. If you mean “more tolerant of other faiths” then you shouldn’t cringe at the truth.

    I judge people by their actions, not whatever faith they proclaim to be of. And when I do judge people by their thoughts, it’s by what they actually think, not what other people who claim the same label think.

    Thank you, though, for keeping it real.

  34. I noticed Sepia Mutiny has so many posts about Gujarat 2002 and little indignities Muslims or Christians in India suffer

    Hold on, you wrote that right before you called me a crybaby for allegedly being hurt when people mistake me for a Hindu…but I’m not in India. That happens HERE.

    Awesome. More spouting by people with an agenda, who are using this as an opportunity to vent their apparently confused spleens.

    Please revisit the first part of this post: a lack of blogging _______ doesn’t indicate anything beyond a lack of time or resources. We all have day jobs, we only blog something if we have the time, if we can add something different to the story (like…how a dog-lover might view this particular news story) and if we’re interested. If we don’t blog what you think is important, it’s not because we disrespect you or those topics.

    If some of you feel so persecuted by our Orientalist preaching to our Hindu brethren, wherein we insist that they “should be meek and passively accept abuse” (when did we do this, btw?), why do you persist in reading?

  35. Also JGandhi makes a couple great points here:

    However hardly any attention is paid to the millions of Hindus ethnically cleansed from pakistand and Bangladesh over the last 60 years or the organized and deliberate attempty to destroy what remains of Hinduism in malaysia and Indonesia. Also no posts on the Hindus that keep getting blown up by bombs which adds up to thousands of Hindu casualties every year – like 2 or 3 9/11s happen to Hindus in India every year, its just spread out voer time and place. And the Orientalist attitude towards Hindus is also tiresome. How many times have Hindus on the blog been lectured to by non-Hindus that they ought to be nonviolent (AKA pasive) and Hinduism is plural therefore anything can be Hindu and Hindus ought to accept anything- not true! Anyone notice these non-Hindus don’t demand their own religious comrades to adhere to the same values?

    Both are completely true from my experience. It just seems like as a backlash for being mistaken for Hindus, Christian and Muslim Indians go out of their way to establish themselves as “superior” to the Hindus they have distanced themselves from.

    And yes, Christian Indians do have it easier in at least one key regard: they do not face the constant threats of conversion that people like I were forced to. Try going to school everyday for 13 years being told you are “damned” and going to hell for all eternity (as a little kid) and tell me if that’s not a little worse than some elementary school teacher asking if you know anythign about Mother Theresa.

    Also, just because you happen to be one Indian Christian who doesn’t belittle or try to convert her Hindu friends, do not assume you represent the majority.

  36. Then you should have written:

    I cringe whenever a Hindu person makes a statement about how Hinduism is better than Christianity because it doesn’t preach fire and brimstone, eternal hell, blah blah blah.

    Thank you, though, for keeping it real.

    Do you thank the sun for shining?

  37. Hillside,

    I have never tried to strip Hindu holidays of anything. I don’t know why you are bringing up abortions or asserting that I’ve said things I haven’t. If people don’t appreciate Nina’s work, I respect that. You are wrong about so much.

    There’s no point in saying anything to you, is there? It’s not like you’ll ever believe I’m not evil.

    Well, peace to you and I’m sorry I’ve given you such a skewed perception of what I believe and how I feel about others. For that, I can only blame myself and try to be a better writer, so I can convey such things properly.

    Have a good day.

  38. I mention the “Hindu presumption” because it’s ridiculous how some people seem to think that Indian Christians have it different (and easier?), here, in a country where the assumption is, if you are desi, you are Hindu. Muslims and Sikhs who grew up here have commented about that, too.

    Hmm. But when a Hindu child gets the same taunts, that may make him feel differently about himself and his background in a different (possibly harder, on a religious level) way, because the things being made fun of are things that his family may actually believe in. And here’s where I notice another generational difference- I feel like brown children are more likely nowadays to get ostracized for being ostensibly Muslim, than for being ostensibly Hindu.

  39. To answer your question, I actually read the site because I greatly enjoy Abhi, Vinod, Cicatrix and some of the other mutineers contirbutions. The recent article on Darjeeling Limited is excellent as well. The professor also has a great deal to say of much value, when he isn’t calling for a the secularization of the whole world. It’s really only your posts that are offensive, which is why they are the ones I normally comment on. If you don’t like it, you know the cure. It’s your website, and since I know there will never be any shortage of people impressed by your sophomoric writing style, banning one more commenter will hardly affect it.

  40. define better. If you mean “more tolerant of other faiths” then you shouldn’t cringe at the truth.

    Hinduism is only “more tolerant” because it evolved in a system where there wasn’t much competition for the longest time. You might want to look at the history of persecution of Buddhists in medieval India, when it looked like it might be gaining ground. Or the current history of Hindus bunching up their saffron dhotis and brandishing their tridents, to get a sense of the normal human response whenever they perceive a threat to their (perfect) way of life. And this is even without going down the road of intra-religious persecution in Hinduism.

    And even if you believe that all that matters is the written word and doctrine, not the actual practice of religion (which is what actually ends up defining the religion in the long run), you might want to explain many of the statements in the ManuSmriti.

    The people who go on and on about the glory of Hinduism might want to look inwards first.

  41. Then you should have written: I cringe whenever a Hindu person makes a statement about how Hinduism is better than Christianity because it doesn’t preach fire and brimstone, eternal hell, blah blah blah.

    My not-wired-for-nitpicking brain doesn’t see the difference. I wrote ‘a Hindu,’ not a more general ‘Hindus.’

    Thank you, though, for keeping it real. Do you thank the sun for shining?

    surya namaskar, baby.

  42. So Rahul, what’s your answer? Is it that all religion is stupid, that Hinduism is specifically worse, or that you just make snarky comments but can’t offer any better alternatives.

    Look, I’m in group X, while groups W, Y and Z all exist around me as well.

    A certain publication writes a story about how people in group W are oppressed.

    Then a post about how people in Group Y are oppressed.

    Finally another post about how bad Group Z has it.

    Now if you are in group X, and you know that you also face similar bad shit, you will either assume that 1) said publication does not care or sympathize with your group, or 2) that said publication blames your group for the bad shit happening to W, Y, and Z. From my perspective, I would say ANNA is guilty of the latter.

  43. And yes, Christian Indians do have it easier in at least one key regard: they do not face the constant threats of conversion that people like I were forced to.

    That is a very broad statement. The older Indian Christian denominations are just as susceptible to conversion attempts of newer Christian sects in India.

  44. And even if you believe that all that matters is the written word and doctrine, not the actual practice of religion (which is what actually ends up defining the religion in the long run), you might want to explain many of the statements in the ManuSmriti.

    I’m assuming no youtube link will adjoin this post. I believe all that matters is written word and doctrine when it comes to categorizing the religion, as it greatly effects actions in present day.

    I’ve never had Buddhists knock on my door dropping off literature on how horrible the caste system is, with a “Buddhists witness” label on the back.

    I’ve never had Sikhs handing out copies of the Guru Granth on their holidays at my college.

    I’ve never had Jain literature stuck under my windshield after returning from an Indiana Walmart.

    I’ve never had a Bahai person stop me randomly in Ft. Collins, Colorado just to make sure I understood the basic tenets of his faith.

    As for the ManuSmrti (the universal comeback to show Hindu literature isn’t “perfect”, when that claim was never made in the first place) But I’d like to see something from the ManuSmrti that denigrates other faiths or “prophets”, or something that can be used to justify proselytization, at the same level of the Mathew text in the bible?(which by the way is not indicative of the “Hindu Bible” which doesn’t exist in the first place). I’d say what most Hindu’s consider as their “teachings” is an amalgum of the Upanishads & the Bhagavad Gita (and in some cases, the Bramha sutras – these three make up what’s called “Prasthana Thraya”

    No, this doesn’t mean no Hindu violence has ever existed, what it does mean is those who proselytize and have a difficult time justifying those beliefs if they are Hindu (maybe that doesn’t matter, for a zealot will stretch anything to mean anything – however when a scriptural comparison is made, the truth cannot be denied)

  45. Abrahamic Pseudo-Secular Nazis!

    Stop raping Hindu Nation with stories of matrimonial dogs!

    Stop writing stories of accidental incineration of Abrahamics in Gujarat by papal-commie rapists Tehelka and ignoring California Education Board rape of Hindus in America along with genocide of Hindus by Martha Nussbaum!

    Stop twisting our saffron balls or we will be forced to scream very loud!

    Stop it! Or we’ll be very angry! And we’ll clench our assholes very firmly! And tighten our scrotums which are saffron in color! Stop provoking us or we’ll get very angry at your genocide of us!

    I’m being serious!

    Stop ISI funded subversion of Hindu tolerance by posting stories of Pakistani dogs planted in Tamil Nadu to entice Hindu men and convert them to Islam!

    Death to Leftist Cabal and Pseudo Secular Mutiny!

    Even our piss is saffron these days you make us so angry!

    Death to Pakistan! Death to Imran Khan! Death to sexy dogs who want to marry assertive nation!

    Hail Mogambo!

  46. As for the ManuSmrti (the universal comeback to show Hindu literature isn’t “perfect”, when that claim was never made in the first place) But I’d like to see something from the ManuSmrti that denigrates other faiths or “prophets”, or something that can be used to justify proselytization, at the same level of the Mathew text in the bible?(which by the way is not indicative of the “Hindu Bible” which doesn’t exist in the first place). I’d say what most Hindu’s consider as their “teachings” is an amalgum of the Upanishads & the Bhagavad Gita (and in some cases, the Bramha sutras – these three make up what’s called “Prasthana Thraya” No, this doesn’t mean no Hindu violence has ever existed, what it does mean is those who proselytize and have a difficult time justifying those beliefs if they are Hindu (maybe that doesn’t matter, for a zealot will stretch anything to mean anything – however when a scriptural comparison is made, the truth cannot be denied)

    HMF, I’m perplexed as to you (and people like you) are more incensed by a Christian peacefully trying to convert you (which is annoying, I’ll grant you that) than by the multitudes of horrors perpetrated by the Manusmriti-approved caste system. Are you actually religious, or do you just have a bone to pick? I’ve had bad experiences with Christians too, both professional proselytizers and acquaintances who made not-so-subtle digs about their supposed superiority, but I feel that it would get me nowhere (not to mention, I do think it is very un-Hindu, but that’s just me) to chew on a bone for so long and so intensely.

  47. HMF, I’m perplexed as to you (and people like you) are more incensed by a Christian peacefully trying to convert you (which is annoying, I’ll grant you that) than by the multitudes of horrors perpetrated by the Manusmriti-approved caste system

    Why must there be a comparison? Why can’t both be wrath-worthy? And why does every discussion of Christianity’s & islams intolerance revert to a defense of the Manusmrti? This is just misdirection on your part.

    I identify as Hindu, I’ve not read the manusmrti once. Like I said, most Hindu philosophy/theology is derived from the prasthana traya, not even so much the vedas (the upanishads are considered ‘distilled’ vedas of sorts)

  48. I am curious; after reading this story, how many people really thought of it from a dog lovers perspective as ANNA did and how many thought of hinduism as mentioned in this post? I mean as a sensible, educated person, I would be embarassed to ask “What does this story tell the world (or us, or martians, or…) about religion and what we are willing to tolerate within it?” to another person after reading this story!! I am indian living in USA and when I read this story, I laughed out loud, my parents, brothers in India laughed out loud and my american colleagues laughed out loud. Thats all there is to this story….I mean it is not worth putting any more thought into!

  49. I want to thank all assertive nation saffron ballers who have truly defended Hinduism and saved it fromn destruction on this thread!

    You have carried on in my absence good work!

    Every time ANNA or some other scumbag Leftist / Abrahamic / ISI / Khalistani / Homosexual / Feminist / Academic / Muslim-Negro (same thing) posts here I know how it rapes us up the ass!

    Quick!

    We have to save Hinduism!

    By posting on Sepia Mutiny!

    Quickly, before it’s too late!

    Or Hindus will be destoryed!

    Brothers in Unity against conspiracy I am developing technology to alert us to these infarctions. A simple device attached to PseudoSickular Mutiny to make saffron balls glow and buzz whenever genocidal rape post emerges so we can do unison attack. Like google alerts. Only Saffron Balls Alerts.

    Well done warriors! You rescued our ass again!

    Hail Mogambo!

  50. HMF, when you make statements like this:

    I believe all that matters is written word and doctrine when it comes to categorizing the religion, as it greatly effects actions in present day.

    we’ll just have to agree to disagree (and most sensible people would agree with me). You’ve already reached your conclusions, and I would hope that you aren’t too far gone into the ‘real’ world. I don’t see what you expect to achieve by getting a Christian or a Muslim to say that his/her faith is intolerant and hateful, except for some minute victory of the ego that does no one any good.