Most of the ideas of Neela Banerjee’s recent New York Times article on Indian-American lobbying were actually covered in a blog post by KXB here a couple of weeks ago.
But what caught my eye was the bit about an India Community Center in Milpitas, California:
The India Community Center in Milpitas, Calif., represents the nonsectarian approach many Indian-Americans take to replicating the experience of American Jews. When Anil Godhwani began talking to other Indians in Silicon Valley about opening a center, “more than one person talked to us about making this a Hindu community center — sometimes in very strong terms,†he said. That was never his intention, though he was raised Hindu.
A Silicon Valley millionaire who sold his company to Netscape in the late 1990s, Mr. Godhwani said he and his brother envisioned a place that promoted the variety of Indian culture to Indian-Americans and non-Indians alike. The Godhwanis canvassed other ethnic centers and the Y.M.C.A. But the Jewish Community Center model resonated with them. It celebrated Jewish culture while avoiding the divisiveness of politics and religion. And it welcomed outsiders. The India Community Center occupies a 40,000-square-foot building that offers, among other things, free medical care for the uninsured, Indian language classes and Bollywood-style aerobics but keeps out religious activities. (link)
I would have loved to have something like this growing up — too bad there isn’t anything similar on the east coast.
More generally, I’m not surprised by the opposition Godhwani encountered as he was trying to put this thing together, though I am disappointed. Most people tend to presume that a South Asian community organized around entirely religion is an inevitable fact of nature, but does it have to be that way?
I’m not saying that Mandirs, Gurdwaras, Masjids, and indeed, Churches don’t have their place; they do. There are things our Gurdwara did well when I was growing up in Maryland, but it was pretty poor when it came to producing a sense of community oriented to aspects of life other than religion, which is what a community center like this is trying to do. They were also quite poor (back then) in language instruction — I learned very little Punjabi even after years of Sunday school. And very few non-Sikhs ever came in, even though Gurdwaras are technically supposed to be open to anyone.
There’s also strength in numbers, especially in parts of the country where the South Asian community might be smaller than it is in the Bay Area or New York/New Jersey. An India-, or perhaps even a “Desi” Community Center, could be a place with more critical mass.
I know, I know — I’m being idealistic again.
I find Gurdwaras do a better job of teaching culture and a far worse job of teaching religion.
I was somewhat confused by the last line in that article:
And it’s being modeled after the JCC? I actually live close to the SF JCC, and I’ve worked in the SF Jewish non-profit world, and I understand there’s a secular streak and a variety of “Jewish religions”…but [congnitive dissonance!]…How can you say “regardless of religion” when it’s called the Jewish Community Center? I know, I know, it depends on whether you define Jewish people as a race or a religion, but I don’t fully follow the logic although I do understand what they’re saying.
As for Ennis’s comment, I think the dearth of religious education at gurudwaras has much to do with the absence of a formal priesthood. The bhais at gurudwaras are often (not always) glorified groundskeepers who just learned a little kirtan so they could get immigration somehow. Unfortunatley, even if that is not the case, that’s often how they’re treated by the lay management. Having little respect for learning and learned teachers, the congregation and management are not willing to pay qualified pracharaks what they are worth, nor give them the deference and respect they deserve.
That said, I appreciate that aspect of Sikhi–the non-hierarchical, unmediated relationship with the divine, the do-it-yourself ethic. It appeals to my anarchistic tendencies. On the other hand, this great, non-hiearchical, democratic “everybody is equal” system allows morans [sic] to view themselves on equal footing with the learned and leads to the perennial challenge, “Tuu kohn haga?” (Who the heck are you?)
That’s my 2p. I hope I’m not overgeneralizing or threadjacking.
Only works when you are just “tolerating” other religions—implies there are a miniscule number of others who you will not be taking into account anyway. Don’t confuse tolerance and inclusion.
Why is it disappointing that people want community center organized around religion? Isn’t that what the YMCAs are, and they have proved quite beneficial for Americans as a whole.
“organized around religion” is way too strong a word. to a large extent for many YMCAs the “C” is an artifact of history, just like the united negro college fund. anyway, iz complicated. see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YMCA#Secularism
And it’s being modeled after the JCC? I actually live close to the SF JCC, and I’ve worked in the SF Jewish non-profit world, and I understand there’s a secular streak and a variety of “Jewish religions”…but [congnitive dissonance!]…How can you say “regardless of religion” when it’s called the Jewish Community Center? I know, I know, it depends on whether you define Jewish people as a race or a religion, but I don’t fully follow the logic although I do understand what they’re saying.
right. the fact that jews are a self-perceived ethnicity and that judaism is a religion complicated things. my understanding is that though you are a jew if your mother is jewish in the eyes of the orthodox tradition they tend to take a dimmer view of jews who convert formally to other religions (e.g., christianity) than they do of jews who are simply “non-religious” (which for them means being non-orthodox, whether you belong to a reform temple or are an avowed atheist).
This is generational, I think. Contrary to your assertion, my parents and their peers don’t even identify as Indian–they would call themselves Sikh, Punjabi, Jatt, American, and Texan before they would identify as “Indian.”
My generation, on the other hand, is carving out a Pan-South-Asian identity. I wonder how much of this is imposed by the generalizing gaze of “the other.” I don’t know if we’re just more idealistic and truly care less for regional and religious distinctions or if we are viewing ourselves through the eyes of “white” America, which blurs those distinction on account of being ignorant of them in a “you all look the same to me” kind of way.
There’s also strength in numbers, especially in parts of the country where the South Asian community might be smaller than it is in the Bay Area or New York/New Jersey. An India-, or perhaps even a “Desi†Community Center, could be a place with more critical mass.
numbers are key. my fam arrived in 1980 and their circle of friends was very diverse within the brown community. the longer they’ve lived here the narrower it has gotten as each ethnic group has achieved “critical” mass so they can associate only with their own kind. if something is labeled a “south asian community” center but 85% of the members are vegetarian gujarati hindus that is going to color the nature of the organization no matter what you call it (e.g., consider the range of foods which are going to be acceptable at events).
My generation, on the other hand, is carving out a Pan-South-Asian identity. I wonder how much of this is imposed by the generalizing gaze of “the other.” I don’t know if we’re just more idealistic and truly care less for regional and religious distinctions or if we are viewing ourselves through the eyes of “white” America, which blurs those distinction on account of being ignorant of them in a “you all look the same to me” kind of way.
1) i think your point is correct. the pan-brown identity is a subset of gen 1.5 & 2s. i think its relevance is going to depend on the within group intermarriage. e.g., m. night shyamalan and bobby jindal are both examples of american brownz who married outside their ethnic group but within their self-perceived racial group.
2) also, ‘we are viewing ourselves through the eyes of “white” America.’ well, many ethnic identities emerge in this way. e.g., bengali literature was widely patronized by the pre-mughal muslim rulers, which helped it develop a separate identity as a written language from sanskrit.
I’ve thought the idea of an Indian cultural school was a good one for a long time now. I was searching on the net and found something called “The India School” (indiaschoolinc.com). It appears to be fairly similar in design to the one in California. The website states it’s been running for 25 years in Bethesda, MD. I had never heard of it but I will probably check it out since I’ve now moved back to DC.
I see that as being the future, as Razib said, as each regional group achieves critical mass they start to hang out only with each other.
the future for DBDs living in the USA. not necessarily american brownz. the intermarriage rates with non-brownz is already high, and even if it drops it will never be THAT low (going dowm from 30-40% to 15-25% perhaps).
The Pan South-Asian identity is something I only experienced in college, and to be honest had trouble relating to. I can see the whole “brown” connection, but my Pakistani friends’ upbringings were so different from my own, that I can’t say I have much more in common with them than I do with my white, black or other ethnic friends.
your personal experience isn’t generalizable. i don’t socialize with brownz at all in my day to day life, it’s a white world out there. but that’s the experience of many here, and those who i have met through SM genuinely do maintain a “pan-brown” identity after college. to some extent this seems to go along with a more moderate religious outlook, or secularity. if you are hyper-muslim, hindu or christian you’ll probably not drop into that tendency. as an analogy, there is a pan-east asian identity developing between koreans, japanese and chinese as can be attested by intermarriage rates, which are higher than expectation between these groups for asian americans. but obviously this isn’t natural, there is a lot of animosity between the 1st generation of these immigrant groups.
I don’t know anything about your specific circumstances, but I bet that one thing you shared in common with those Pakistani (and North Indians and probably even Central Asian) friends was the way you were treated by non-brown Americans. Here are a few examples from A N N A of the kind of thing I’m talking about.
ppl forget tha india is also a subcontinent wat i mean is letz say britain got 1 culture germany anotha totally dif so a european cultural centre wud lyk hav a buncha stuff n very dif ppl.
also many ppl dont tink as big south asian dey wud c as punjabi, bengali, tamil/sri lankan n stuff. funny tho pakistani mos ppl consider dem 1 group evn tho mosly rly punjabi n northern is pasto or sumtin basically northern pakistan is lyk white ppl but evn tha debatable.
i saw on net once tha many ppl wer considerin arabs as white so dey cud say jesus was white insted of arab or brown
Part of the reason that there is a greater emphasis on pan-Indian identity in the U.S. is that you have more cross-regional marriages. In my parents generations, everyone was married to a Bengali Hindu. But their children, born and raised here, did not – some have married Punjabis, others Tamil, there has also been the occasional Hindu-Muslim interrmarriage. Such couples, should they decided to become involved in the Indian community, may feel that a group that is solely Bengali or solely Gujarati will not meet their needs.
This can also apply to young couples moving to the U.S. from India. Indians from India in their 20’s and 30’s are far more mobile than my parents’ generation, so a mixed couple from India would also find a pan-Indian organization more suitable than one that emphasizes just one region or language.
also i dunno abou america but in TO itz prty seperated lyk punjabi we do oua ting gujuz derz but from india itz mosly punjabiz who come. n whil many got cut hair still considered sikhz. who noz in a couple generationz if disl happen. cuz lyk black ppl from cariben n africa 1 dif is from africa dey got definite roots na mean lyk les say somali whil cariben itz dif so cariben c as bigger picture whil ppl from africa may na. na all but i sayn lyk from tha view lyk i seen ppl talkn abou it
Shymalan is a Tamil who married a Sindhi. But Jindal is a Punjabi who married a Punjabi.
That sounds more like the chicken than the egg, to me. I’d say there’s more cross-regional intermarriage because there is a more fluid identity, not the way you stated it.
“Personally I don’t believe that Hindu temples should allow non-believers inside, so it stands to reason that some sort of secular community center would also be justified.”
As a hyper-Hindu I believe Hindu temples ought to be open to everyone. What is a believer versus a non-believer in Hinduism? But the temples should be run on Hindu terms with Hindu leadership. Our temple arranges garbas, Navratri, Diwali, Holi, free Gujarati lessons and free meals on Sundays. We attract lots of non-Hindu Desis which is perfectly alright. The problem comes when the non-Hindus try to secularize the temple and the Hindu festivals so they can participate without feeling as if they are losing their own religious identity.
I’ve been to the ICC in Milpitas a few times, once for a Goan related event and all religions were represented. I think it’s fairly secular. Also is post #16 is a parody or am I just getting old ?
there’s an indian association (no religious affiliation) in the town that i grew up in (central jersey) now. I don’t believe they’ve gathered enough for a center just yet but it seems nice because many of the desis in that town are young parents/families who have children the same age. My parents moved there in the 80s and there were a grand total of three Indian families in the town when I was growing up.
I also reject the pan-South Asian identity. In my area there are a lot of young Pakistani men with long beards and Pakistani women in hijabs. I frankly don’t feel I have a special “brown” connection to them. I find SM’s idea of “Brown” identity very crude, boiling everything down to skin color, the hell with ideas, values, attitudes and culture. Why aren’t Mexicans part of the Brown coalition?
Outside of the Guju community I feel more connected with Panjabis, Persians and East Asians than I do with Pakistanis or Bangladeshis. Most ABD Gujus I know are marrying other Gujus. And the minority that marry outside the community are usally marrying Panjabis.
Religion will forever remain salient. There will be pick-offs of Hindus (but not Muslims) by Christianity which will stregnthen the Hindu identity and engender movements for “revival.” I heard that the HAF has been bad mouthed by some convert Indian-American politicians who resent the fact that they’ve usurped the “Hindu” viewpoint on the Hill.
Religion will forever remain salient. There will be pick-offs of Hindus (but not Muslims) by Christianity which will stregnthen the Hindu identity and engender movements for “revival.” I heard that the HAF has been bad mouthed by some convert Indian-American politicians who resent the fact that they’ve usurped the “Hindu” viewpoint on the Hill.
1) religion will be salient for some people. the jewish american community is a good analogy for this, it spans the gambit from secular atheist to haredi.
2) as for picking off hindus more than muslims that is true from what i can gather right, but, there are plenty of trinidadians i have met who have “muslim” last names who are christian by profession, so you probably shouldn’t project that far into the future.
But if you’re antagonistic to people from that part of the world with long beards … I’m in trouble, aren’t I?
Outside of the Guju community I feel more connected with Panjabis, Persians and East Asians than I do with Pakistanis or Bangladeshis.
i’m curious as to the affinity for persians and east asians? i like east asians myself because they’re generally not religious nuts, which generally is the case with many pakistanis and bangladeshis and a smaller minority of indians( though a substantial minority of young asian americans are going evangelical today they are still the most secular american ethnic group; see kosmin et. al., ‘american religious identification survey’). but persians? they’re usually muslim, though iranian americans are often jewish as well and the muslims are secular or irreligious (i know iranian american women who have converted to christianity via intervarsity and campus crusade).
JGandhi wrote:
Outside of the Guju community I feel more connected with Panjabis, Persians and East Asians than I do with Pakistanis or Bangladeshis.
How does that work? Most Pakistanis are Punjabi and most Punjabis are Pakistani.
2) as for picking off hindus more than muslims that is true from what i can gather right, but, there are plenty of trinidadians i have met who have “muslim” last names who are christian by profession, so you probably shouldn’t project that far into the future.
Very interesting, but I’d still be willing to bet that the higher percentage of Christian pick-offs in the Carribean came from Hindus.
Another interesting thing in the article was the communal meeting between Hindus and Jews in which Hinduism was declared monotheistic. This may be the mid-life kicker that Hinduism needs in the west to retain market share amongst those growing up in an Abrahamic environment, though, imo, its not necessarily true to tradition.
I think most people who are on the anti-South Asian bandwagon dont really have a problem with Sri Lanka, Nepal or even Bangladesh. It might be their dislike of Pakistan/Pakistanis which makes them so Anti-South Asia.
Lets face it. Karachi is very similar to Bombay and Delhi is very similar to Lahore. People who have been to these 4 cities can vouch for the similarities in these cities. People should identify themselves in whatever way they like. But lets not pretend that people are that different in India/Pakistan.
I think that is interesting, because my parents consider themselves Hindu first, South Indian second. They don’t even feel they have much in common with the North Indians in our town, and given a preference socialize almost excluzively with other South Indians. I see that as being the future, as Razib said, as each regional group achieves critical mass they start to hang out only with each other.
The Pan South-Asian identity is something I only experienced in college, and to be honest had trouble relating to. I can see the whole “brown” connection, but my Pakistani friends’ upbringings were so different from my own, that I can’t say I have much more in common with them than I do with my white, black or other ethnic friends.
my parents are attached to their linguistic identities primarily, and then a more general south indian identity (and straddling both of these is their hindu identities). but i wish there had been a community centre like this growing up – if only for the fact that it would have made me more aware of other groups. not only did my parents not expose me to other desi groups (sometimes explicitly, but usually implictly by their own lack of association) but they also passed on their wholly unsubstantiated (i.e. wrong) biases about these other groups.
it was only when i went to college that i started learning about other desi groups. it’s been a very interesting process – and most of it was kicked off by acquiring friends of various desi backgrounds. i wouldn’t say i have more in common with certain desi friends than others, though i think this is partly based on the fact that said relationships were not started because they are desi. it has been very fulfilling to learn about their cultures, just as it has been to learn about my non-desi friends’ cultures.
but i wonder if this anti-pan south asian bias exists because people feel they are ‘expected’ to feel more connected with other desi people – i.e. why doesn’t the same sentiment exist re their non-desi friends? that didn’t sound very articulate, so maybe somebody else could re-word my thoughts for me:)
Gautham, in the context of the Bay Area a “Hindu” community center would be inherently exclusionary; there is a VERY large desi Muslim and Sikh population in the Bay.
I think the pan-South Asian identity is also a function of a political moment. It is strategic, and it leverages commonalities. That said, I don’t think it even pretends to ask that we all share a culture or values — what it asks us to share is common experiences along a whole lot of identity markers. Its inclusionary outlook is of course oppositional to a hyper-nationalistic (and by extension, exclusionary) outlook.
Also, I think traveling in community-specific circles is something you get to do when you’ve got a critical mass, like razib mentioned. When I was younger (and there were much fewer desi families, period) there was a higher propensity for cross-community and cross-religion friendships and social circles (although not really cross-class affiliations). The older I got, the narrower and narrower these circles became until they spun out not only into regional groups but within that into religious subdivisions. All that said, for some communities, events in India also shaped how they related to or perceived their “prime” identity.
I actually think the lack of adequate religious training has less to do with the lack of a formal clergy and more to do with a conscientious move away from home-based religious education. That and the dearth of seminary-style programs re: Sikhi in the west. There are actually several groups and funders trying to put together a “Khalsa college” of sorts, but because we’re “late movers” as a community we are up against incredibly high real estate and infrastructure costs. All that said, gurdwara congregations and committees, in my experience, are much more likely to throw fundraising efforts and money behind putting an extra (and architecturally and physically unnecessary) dome on a building than investing in a quality Sunday school program.
the second para of my post 29 should have been in quotes, as gautham wrote it.
By the way, the Milpitas ICC is fabulous. Forgot to say that 🙂
“Lets face it. Karachi is very similar to Bombay and Delhi is very similar to Lahore. People who have been to these 4 cities can vouch for the similarities in these cities. People should identify themselves in whatever way they like. But lets not pretend that people are that different in India/Pakistan.”
i think that’s an important point, but it also works the other way. and bombay/delhi doesn’t equal india. in college, it was mostly the pakistanis who completely avoided the south asian campus group and couldn’t latch on to the south asian identity. it may have been because they were the smallest in number. also, karachi and bombay and lahore and delhi may be similar, but pakistanis are less likely to feel an empathy with other parts of india and more empathy with bangladesh than they are to sri lanka. on the other hand there are indians who feel more empathy with pakistan/bangladesh than they do with india’s northeast.
But one could share the common experiences with other browns (from South America, Mexico) or other people (brown or not) from different countries across the globe who are living in the US. Isn’t a South-Asian identity excluding those folks? 🙂
isn’t this assuming the lack of multiple identities (pun unintended)?
Amit, I argue no 🙂
But, I am also someone who identifies as South Asian American and as a person of color and who works in both circles. So maybe I am the wrong person to ask?
Pan South-Asian as a concept is more suited for parades and naming associations on campus. It is a little bit like the simplistic term, Oriental cuisine, as if Thai, Japanese and Chinese cuisines were not fundamentally different.
We of the first-generation hard-core ethnicity obviously do not think in terms of South Asia. But do the more globally aware second and third generation browns – by which I mean most of you – really relate to other browns just because they are all Asians? Don’t you relate much more readily to whites, blacks, and browns, or whomever you live and work with? I do. So why hold on to a Pan-South Asian identity? You are an American and an Indian, or American and SriLankan, or an American and Bangladeshi (I didn’t forget you razib.)
Amardeep’s post: “There are things our Gurdwara did well when I was growing up in Maryland, but it was pretty poor when it came to producing a sense of community oriented to aspects of life other than religion”
The religions of desh are adapting to local conditions. Look at the Sunday morning congregation in mandirs. Hinduism is very thin on congregations, and Sunday morning is certainly not the time back in India. Admitting Indian performers into the temples, teaching languages to the children, even the running of the mandir through elected boards and bylaws are all diasporic inventions. Maybe the community center dimension is not far behind.
having grown up in nyc, I belonged to the jewish y down the block from where i lived. this facility had a swimming pool, gym with basketball court, weight room, aerobic facility etc. my experiences with the y were that it served two purposes; 1. it provided the community at large an area to recreate, and 2. it provided jews in the area to come together for the purpose of interacting with one’s own community and culture. these two functions seemed to be disparate, yet coexistant within the operation of the facility. However, as a place – especially for the young and the elderly to go to and have the opportunity to immerse themselves in their own culture this particular facility served its purpose. there are simaar jcc’s all across the country that I have come to see. I think an indian cultural center is a wonderful idea.
Floridian, some of us don’t identify by our parents’ national identities. But, more importantly, the idea of a South Asian identity is self-generated. It’s like the Asian American movement of the 1950s — it’s not trying to subsume regional identities, it’s trying to build a critical mass around common issues that cut across communities. It’s also about a shared experience of being (desi) brown in America. I would argue that it’s also a great channel by which to think about what it means to be part of an immigrant community/tradition or a larger “brown” community in the U.S.
One of the reason people, especially the older generation may wish for a Hindu centre because political issues back home are top on their lists of discussions with other Indians. Any many issues today seem to be religiously colored than ever before.
Another reason might be that while Christians/Muslims of Indian origin have the larger Christian/Muslim community to draw their support from, for Hindus they do not really have such a larger community (maybe save for ISCKON).
BTW, I went to the website and saw that they have yoga classes. Now Yoga’s founder is Lord Shiva himself. Is this indian culture or part of Hinduism?
Do the second generation desis really need a Indian or Pan South-Asian community center to learn/keep in touch with language,religion or popular culture like movies. Can’t we learn just enough to satisfy our taste-buds by mingling with immediate family members or relatives in India ? Maybe the third/fourth/inter-racial desis need these centers (assuming encounters with “desi products” gets thinned as we go higher in generation numbering )
Rest assured that yoga is secular and south asian.
Although I don’t believe in organized community centers, I respect the rights of South Asians to have them. I just hope that the abcd’s who run them will not turn them into sextacy dens.
this center will never succeed. it does not seem to have a shalimar of india restaurant with a $6.95 lunch buffet on the campus, at least there’s no mention of it in the article.
“i’m curious as to the affinity for persians and east asians? i like east asians myself because they’re generally not religious nuts, which generally is the case with many pakistanis and bangladeshis and a smaller minority of indians( though a substantial minority of young asian americans are going evangelical today they are still the most secular american ethnic group; see kosmin et. al., ‘american religious identification survey’). but persians? they’re usually muslim, though iranian americans are often jewish as well and the muslims are secular or irreligious (i know iranian american women who have converted to christianity via intervarsity and campus crusade).”
My point is, affinity is more than skin color. “Brown” identity is a silly idea. Gujus and East Asians get along because they’re both secular within the public sphere. Persians like Gujus also love to party and they party in similar ways: show up late, show up with a girl, gossip for an hour, rush for the food, dance like crazy and then abruptly go home. Invite a Pakistani or Bangladeshi, he’s going to show up with 5 of his guy friends and they’ll spend the night hitting on everyone’s dates. I noticed Persians are also much more money-crazy like Gujus while Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are not.
To #25: I’m not antagonistic to people with long beards. I just don’t feel a special “brown” connection to them. The beards and hijabs create a very austere environment for me and make the people wearing them seem very distant.
to #27: By Panjabi, I meant Indo-Panjabi (Sikhs and Hindus).
ak, sorry, your point was lost on me. Could you please elaborate?
The point I was trying to make was that if “experience in the US as a 1st/2nd/+ gen” is the common thread running through different flowers (so to speak) that Camille was taking about, then it goes beyond just South Asians in the US. So, a South Asian identity is exclusionary in some ways, because it doesn’t include a brown from Mexico with the same experience.
I personally don’t feel any need for myself right now to wear another hat called “South Asian,” though if others feel that way and it works for them, then more power to them. I’m somewhat neutral towards it.
As a .5 gen Indian married to a fourth gen Indian, to answer the above question, yes we absolutely do. If you have kids or aging parents, its invaluable to have somewhere for them to go even if its once a month. It decreases the chances of your parents from feeling like shut-ins. It gives kids access to a broad range of Indian kids living in the area, as opposed to a few cousins/family friends. By opening them up to all, like the JCC, it increases acceptance of your community. I dont see any downside.
On one hand as indians become more westernized/globalized, inter-regional marriages become more common and on the other hand as more folks of different generations of desis in america want to learn/keep in touch more and more with desi products thru these community centers, I wonder what exactly will happen with the Indian and/or Desi identity in a globalized world ? I have already started hearing terms such “IBCDs” from many friends/cousins in India..
what i meant is that even if a south asian identity excludes other browns (as, by definition, it would), it’s still possible for desis to have an identity as a brown person in general, not just as brown applies to desis. i.e. it’s not a zero sum game – identifying yourself as a desi does not prevent one from identifying with people of other ethnic backgrounds. furthermore, what i was really getting at is that our desiness is not our only identifying factor – that people are fully capable of identifying with others based on religion, nationality, ancestry, lingustics, similar interests etc – and these various identities can co-exist without hindering any other.
as for exclusion vis-a-vis others – not everybody is going to be included in the things with which i identify – be it language, the arts, the subject matter of my career or desi culture (even other desis might not identify with my particular aspects of desi culture). it just highlights that we are different in more ways than just our ethnic backgrounds.
not for me. my desiness actually transcends that of my parents in many ways – it’s something that i have discovered as much on my own than through my family. and some of the best things i have discovered – e.g. qawwali – i would never have come across if i had relied solely on my parents. although i love south indian culture, the more i learn about other aspects of desi culture, the more i realise that there are some things in them that are far more reflective of my own personality than the culture of my parents.
It’s ridiculous to have these centers Hindu centric. That’s what temples are for. Now, if there are some activities that are culturally Hindu dominant like a Diwali celebration that doesn’t shut out others, that’s different. Also people can feel free to indulge in religious stuff in their own personal conversations or have like a little dinner.
I do not know how useful these centers can be for the indians in their 20s-30s. Maybe for kids and old people. I noticed a lot of old people come here to the US and are bored as hell during weekdays. A lot of their kids do not take the initiative to network them with other old people and arrange weekday group gatherings for a few old people in the city with the same care they plan their kids playdates. Actually I feel like these kids use their parents as a source of cheap babysitting in some cases.
There one or two India Centers, there are a thousand temples and several thousand mosques. The “South Asians” have voted, and its for religion.
43 · access code wrong
**Rest assured that yoga is secular and south asian. **
You have to be more convincing than that.
You see, if you start will yoga not being Hindu, then practically all Hindu stuff can be deconstructed… eg Shiva is pre vedic deity, meditation like TM is not Hindu, Vishnu is Aryan god, Murugan is Dravidan, Ayurveda does not have hindu origins. Bharatnatyam is Indian not Hindu in origin.
I think most Hindus will say this is clear theft of Hindu intellectual knowledge. Using Hindu knowledge but not giving it its due!! Which is where I have a problem.
You cannot have the cake and eat it too.