That’s the Raghead-in-Chief to you (updated)

[Update: See below the fold for much more extensive coverage of what Knotts actually said. It's far more offensive and inflamatory than the first reports revealed]

On a political talk show Thursday night, State Senator Jake Knotts said (about Nikki Haley):

We already got one rag-head in the White House, we don’t need a rag-head in the governor’s mansion,” [link]

I’d love to show you the video of this clip, but it was either pulled from the archive or “Republican political operative and show co-host Wesley Donehue …forgot to hit record” [link].

After being soundly reamed by Haley for his remarks and more mildly criticized by the SC GOP, Senator Knotts “apologized” saying

my “raghead” comments about Obama and Haley were intended in jest. Bear in mind that this is a freewheeling, anything-goes Internet radio show that is broadcast from a pub. It’s like local political version of Saturday Night Live, which is actually where the joke came from,” Knotts said. “Since my intended humorous context was lost in translation, I apologize. I still believe Ms. Haley is pretending to be someone she is not, much as Obama did, but I apologize to both for an unintended slur [link]

Get that?

  • It was a joke, and not even his joke really, a joke made by those liberals at SNL. Huh? When did they call the President a raghead?
  • Furthermore, it was an unintended slur Right, I said raghead when I meant to say sand nigger. That was the intended slur.
  • And lastly Haley is pretending to be someone she is not … i.e. White, Christian, and like us.

And here we come to the crux of the matter. Both Obama and Haley, US Citizens and Christian by their own accounting, are frauds. They’re not “one of us” because they’re not white.

The Senator hasn’t tied himself up in Knotts trying to explain himself, he has revealed exactly what he means. Sadly for him, the race card wont work this time, not because there are no bigoted primary voters, but because Haley looks white and has Sarah Palin’s endorsement. At the same time, this isn’t going to hurt him one bit. It’s not a macaca moment (another ‘unintended slur’), it’s just politics as usual in South Carolina.

UPDATE: Some audio has surfaced, this is some of what he said, although I have rearranged and selected material from the original source

“She’s a f#!king raghead… ” Knotts said… “She’s a raghead that’s ashamed of her religion trying to hid it behind being Methodist for political reasons.”

“We need a good Christian to be our governor,” he said. “She’s hiding her religion. She ought to be proud of it. I’m proud of my god.”

Knotts says he believed Haley has been set up by a network of Sikhs and was programmed to run for governor of South Carolina by outside influences in foreign countries. He claims she is hiding her religion and he wants the voters to know about it.

Knotts says he believes Haley’s father has been sending letters to India saying that Haley is the first Sikh running for high office in America. He says her father walks around Lexington wearing a turban.

We’re at war over there,” Knotts said. Asked to clarify, he said he did not mean the United States was at war with India, but was at war with “foreign countries.” [link]

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p>I challenge you to read this and say that the GOP dismissal was not mild.

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52 thoughts on “That’s the Raghead-in-Chief to you (updated)

  1. It is disengenuous when some conservative comments in some blogs try to compare this to Biden’s pandering 7-11 moment or some other politician offering up a stereotype. What this cretin indulged in was throwing out slurs, not stereotypes.

  2. It was a pretty stupid statement and was immediately refuted by the South Carolina GOP.

    South Carolina Republicans were quick Thursday evening to condemn the remarks of a prominent Republican State Senator, Jake Knotts, who referred to a gubernatorial candidate as a “raghead” on an online political show today.

    We’ll see how it plays out.

  3. SC is probably the most regressive state in the Union. It was the state with iniated the nullifaction crisis, the first to secede, and one of the most resistant to civil rights. The good ol’ boys in the state must be scared to death of Hawley and what she represents. She’s as conservative as they are (probably more), but alas, she’s not “one of them.”

    I am diametrically opposed to everything she stands for, but I hope Hawley pulls through to stick it to them. They’re just tryin’ to tear a sista down.

    The remark against the president is not really surprising. I guess this is more of the reasoned, “policy-based” criticism that the teabaggin lot is known for.

  4. nyx:

    I linked to their statement in the text of the post. Much to my continuing frustration, our links are not clearly visible ever since the redesign. However, if you click on SC GOP, you’ll get to the text of their statement:

    “The South Carolina Republican Party strongly condemns any use of racial or religious slurs. Senator Knotts should apologize for his inappropriate comments, so that we can put this unfortunate incident behind us and focus on issues important to moving our state forward,”

    That said, in political terms that’s a fairly mild criticism. Compare it to what came from Haley’s camp, or to the sorts of things that the SC GOP says about people they’re very angry at. They just call the comments inappropriate, and say they want to “put this unfortunate incident behind” that’s very different from saying that the comments were outrageous and that they strongly rebuke the senator for making them.

  5. Ennis, Thanks for linking to the SC Republican Party statement.

    “That said, in political terms that’s a fairly mild criticism. Compare it to what came from Haley’s camp, or to the sorts of things that the SC GOP says about people they’re very angry at. They just call the comments inappropriate, and say they want to “put this unfortunate incident behind” that’s very different from saying that the comments were outrageous and that they strongly rebuke the senator for making them.”

    Perhaps. My perception is different. I thought the reaction was swift and they did unequivocally condemn his idiotic statements. On an interesting note, Sarah Palin was one of the first politicians (along with Jenny Sanford) to endorse Haley and defend her against her infidelity charge. The infidelity charge is not going to have much play after this because it is apparent the Good Old Boys are throwing the kitchen sink at her. I might be wrong but let’s see how it plays out.

  6. I am hoping she wins in the Republican primary but loses in the general election. Racial and national origin solidarity does not justify subjecting the poor folks of South Carolina to Haley’s trickle around poverty policies.

  7. Nyx:

    They condemned the statement, they didn’t condemn Knotts for making the statement. Again, make the comparison to what SC GOP sounds like when it’s really angry, or to what Haley said about Knotts (also linked). This is the mildest by comparison.

  8. I am hoping she wins in the Republican primary but loses in the general election.

    Yeah, if I wasn’t clear in my earlier post, this is the most optimal outcome. Hawley is Mark Sanford with a tan and lady parts. She’s an extremist conservative even by modern Republican standards. Ideologically, she’s in tune with her party. It’s so clear much of this mud being thrown Hawley’s way is race- (and maybe a little gender-) based. Her win in the Repub primary will rankle most those who dislike her simply for who she is. And that’s a good thing.

  9. but because Haley looks white


    Ennis, give me a break. More wishful thinking on your part?

  10. I agree with Ennis. She could certainly pass for Nadal’s sister.

  11. Yikes. Brain fart. I’ve calling her Hawley all this time when her name is Haley. Ugh. Wish I could edit.

  12. @Proud Tamil:

    “but because Haley looks white” ==> see the second post on this subject, now posted below this one. I had many people contact me in the last few weeks, desi and non-desi, who had never realized that Nikki Haley was desi. They all thought she was white.

    “Ennis, give me a break. More wishful thinking on your part?” ==> ? I don’t even know what that means. Why would I, writing on a desi-American blog, “wish” that she looks white?

    Dude, don’t be an ass. Yellow card. The main reason why I don’t blog as much any more is because I don’t have the time to tend the comments. It means that now that I have blogged, I’m going to be quick on the ban / delete / close comments. I had the morning off, so I could sneak some posts in, but I really don’t need my time wasted here.

    Keep your remarks civil and directed at peoples’ comments, their words, not their person. OK?

  13. Sadly, this is where a large chunk of the GOP is in regards to race relations. I wish he would have delved deeper into what he meant by saying that she’s pretending to be something she’s not.

  14. I wish he would have delved deeper into what he meant by saying that she’s pretending to be something she’s not.

    Try this:

    “We need a good Christian to be our governor,” he said. “She’s hiding her religion. She ought to be proud of it. I’m proud of my god.” Knotts says he believes Haley’s father has been sending letters to India saying that Haley is the first Sikh running for high office in America. He says her father walks around Lexington wearing a turban. “We’re at war over there,” Knotts said. Asked to clarify, he said he did not mean the United States was at war with India, but was at war with “foreign countries.”

    Source: http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=1992209084141467&act=post&pid=11860406103619087

    Wow. I don’t think Sepia Mutiny has had trolls as bad as this guy.

  15. The conservative RedState, which endorsed Haley very early, has this to say:

    They’ve called her a raghead. They’ve called her a wh*re. They sure as heck better start practicing calling her Governor.
  16. but because Haley looks white _______________________________ Ennis, give me a break. More wishful thinking on your part?

    If Haley looks white, my mom looks Italian. This is so absurd. If her skin tone was like Kareena Kapoor’s or like Khair un Nissa, I can see the point even if I think it is ridiculous. But she looks the darkest in her family photo.

  17. Nyx: I’m just relaying what many friends, white, latino and desi have all said to me in the last week. They thought she was white.

    Yes, obviously desis come in a wide range of color, but so do white people. The question is, what did people think she was?

    Maybe once you start paying attention you notice the difference, but before people tell you she just looks slightly more tanned, I don’t know. But these comments indicate that she does in fact pass.

  18. Nyx: I’m just relaying what many friends, white, latino and desi have all said to me in the last week. They thought she was white. Yes, obviously desis come in a wide range of color, but so do white people. The question is, what did people think she was? Maybe once you start paying attention you notice the difference, but before people tell you she just looks slightly more tanned, I don’t know. But these comments indicate that she does in fact pass. Posted by Ennis at June 4, 2010 1:20 PM

    I have a multicultural group of friends and not one said that she looked white (one said she had less typical Indian features but definitely not white). Perhaps, my experience is atypical. I can get your point if Haley is literally the lightest desi girl I have ever seen, but that is not true. She is probably at the median for a punjabi woman and light for a desi woman in America. But I stand by my statement, she does not look white. Maybe Latina. But not white.

  19. I agree with Ennis. She could certainly pass for Nadal’s sister.

    well, she’s [aaing for Nidal’s now.

  20. She’s as conservative as they are (probably more), but alas, she’s not “one of them.”

    Ding ding ding. And when Republican means being a white Protestant and not embodying conservative principles regardless of religion or skin color, it’s time to form a Conservative party. (What was it someone said recently? I have no problem with liberals and conservatives, just Democrats and Republicans.)

  21. This is a really interesting/saddening/maddening situation. At first, when all of the affair stuff was surfacing (and apparently still bubbling up), I couldn’t care less about Haley and her aspirations. After all, she’s a right wing, nut job Sarah Palin toadie so she deserves it (you know, the affair accusations). But now, I feel really bad for her and hope she wins. It’s almost as though the racism trumps the sexism/misogyny of the whole situation. It’s upsetting to me that I feel this way because her politics are fucked so I, at any other time, would have hoped she failed. But now I don’t.

  22. What’s with all the random Indian conservatives? They must be… what… 2% of the Indian-American population?

  23. They must be… what… 2% of the Indian-American population?

    Probably more. Don’t forget many are in the medical profession and the idea of “tort reform” which Republicans drone on about might appeal to them. And the Indian-Americans who are business owners would like fewer regulations, employee protections, and lower taxes, yada yada.

  24. Probably more… And the Indian-Americans who are business owners would like fewer regulations, employee protections, and lower taxes, yada yada.

    AGREED. Every voting desi I know within 30mi is conservative…not necessarily republican, but quite conservative.

  25. Its great desis are becoming both Republicans and Democrats; provide some swing to the political scene. It seems desis are more politically active than the more numerous (and more prosperous?) Asian Americans?

    I remember there was a massive effort by the Paks in the South to support the demos when Jindal was running the first time round (and Pakistanis tend to Republicans). Desi unity exists on an amicable level but very divided politically; I have to admit I’ll always support Pakistan & Bangladesh in cricket, sometimes Sri Lanka but never India, To be honest I’ve always felt a strong anti-Muslim/Pakistan sentiment among the people born in those countries but never in the Diasporas. However growing up in Pak beyond the extreme resentment against India over Kashmir there isn’t the same “resentment”; in fact we copy India and Indian culture whenever it suits us. For instance now its the fashion to have a Mayoun, but that’s specifically Indian & Hindu but no Pakistan, even the most traditional kind, will drop that night in the wedding itinerary. Thank God though that Pakistanis marry like Indians and not Arabs; I’ve heard that Arab weddings are only one night and segregated between Hindu & Muslims. Desis weddings are far and away the best weddings vis. a vis any other culture. A wedding celebration has to be over a couple of days, if not a month (sometimes as is the case in Pak); anything less seems so incomplete.

    Otherwise re the conversions we have to also ask whether the “born-agains” euro-americans are truly Christian or converted for political gain. Though as William Dalrymple recently said Hinduism/Sikhism/Buddhism are much more distinct to the Abrahamic faiths (cyclical vs. eternal) so I guess its more difficult for the normal America to “accept”.

    In Latam there have been a few Muslim converts who became politicians (Carlos Menem etc.) and in Africa/Malaya (the periphery of the Muslim world) I see alot of personal examples where Muslims switch out of religion.

    However Sikhism has no “global pretensions”; it rapidly moved from being an evangelical faith to an ethnic one. Its really funny to hear Pakistani Punjabis & Hindu Punjabi refer to Sikhs as “Punjabis”; credit to the Sikhs they are the most passionate advoctates of the Punjabi language and culture. I get the distinct feeling that Muslims & HPs are much more inclined to the Urdu/Hindu culture, Punjabi for them is the slang colloquial of their parents.

    I’m guessing the Senator Knott must be thinking Sikhism is some conspiratorial variant of Islam. Funnily enough in a very funny way Sikhism is an offshoot; though a wander around a Gurdwara shows the graphic pictures of them resisting Muslims.

    General question it seems that Qawwali and Bhangra have similar beats; I wonder if they are the same origins, Punjabi Bhakti devotional music?

  26. One funny comment in the UK the political scene is very rarely “Indian” whereas Jindal/Halley are both Punjabi/Haryanavi. The UK Indian community is Gujarati and Punjabi Sikh; possibly Punjabis whereever they are just drawn to politics (outspoke, aggressive culture); where they dominate the politics of Pakistan and also India, where they’re only 3% of the population.

  27. I’m guessing the Senator Knott must be thinking Sikhism is some conspiratorial variant of Islam.

    You give him too much credit. I think this ersatz Boss Hog just pig ignorant and is just lashing out at the furriner.

  28. I think you’re both wrong. I think he knows quite well who Sikhs are, I think he just doesn’t care.

    Just like all the people who said they followed the Reverend Wright affair very closely and also said Obama was a Muslim.

    It’s all shorthand for foreign. They know there are differences, but they don’t actually care. This is why educating bigots does no good. They’re not bigots because they’re uninformed, they’re uninformed because they’re bigots.

  29. this is v. interesting. this raghead business and the Christian Broadcasting Network’s Brody examining Nikki’s faith. Af-Am politicians for much of post-bellum to early civil rights were GOPers – first from the early identification of the party with Lincoln and then its being the preserve of the educated and urbane – because making it into a political party for an Af-Am required meeting extraordinary professional demands. But that began to fray as GOPers in the North became indistinguishable from the GOPers in the South and the corporatists began to control the party (following their thumping by FDR’s New Deal) and any kind of mass action began to remind them of the New Deal. So as the GOP became an alliance of the aristocracy and the corporatists, the Af-Am politicians found themselves unwanted, so they moved incresingly over to the Dems. All this while their piety helped them hardly at all. Then it was a dislike of the catholicity and progressive nature of the faith of the civil rights icons such as King’s.

  30. I think “Senator” Knott must wear a turban, do rag, bike helmet, baseball cap, top hat or something to protect his damaged cranium. He talks as though he’s spent too much time in the sun. Either that, or his doctor needs to be sued for malpractice and misdiagnosing the old fart. Or maybe his meds need to be tweaked a bit since he sounds like someone hallucinating.

  31. 28 · Zachary Latif on June 4, 2010 5:01 PM · Its really funny to hear Pakistani Punjabis & Hindu Punjabi refer to Sikhs as “Punjabis”; credit to the Sikhs they are the most passionate advoctates of the Punjabi language and culture. I get the distinct feeling that Muslims & HPs are much more inclined to the Urdu/Hindu culture, Punjabi for them is the slang colloquial of their parents.

    I’ve even noticed some of my more rustic Punjabi Sikh friends question someone’s ethnicity as being “Punjabi or Hindu?” It seems that they reserve the title as an (a) honorific, and (b) Jatt Sikh. My Jatt Sikh friend doesn’t regard “Arora/Papay” Sikhs as being Punjabi, but as “Hindus”, as if that is socio-economically lower. Also, Sikhs don’t refer to Pakistanis from Lahore as being “Punjabi”. They refer to them as being “Pakistani”.

    General question it seems that Qawwali and Bhangra have similar beats; I wonder if they are the same origins, Punjabi Bhakti devotional music?

    What are you talking about? Qawwali and Bhangra sound NOTHING alike! What Qawwali musician are you referring to that sounds like Bhangra? Do you also think that Gurdas Mann sound like Hank Williams Jr.?

  32. “I’ve even noticed some of my more rustic Punjabi Sikh friends question someone’s ethnicity as being “Punjabi or Hindu?” It seems that they reserve the title as an (a) honorific, and (b) Jatt Sikh. My Jatt Sikh friend doesn’t regard “Arora/Papay” Sikhs as being Punjabi, but as “Hindus”, as if that is socio-economically lower. Also, Sikhs don’t refer to Pakistanis from Lahore as being “Punjabi”. They refer to them as being “Pakistani”.”

    Hmm interesting; re the Pakistani stuff that makes sense, ethnicity is a weak concept in Pakistan. Its really funny to hear these ethnic nationalists go on about anti-Punjabi diatribes; next thing you know their children have married Punjabis.

    “What are you talking about? Qawwali and Bhangra sound NOTHING alike! What Qawwali musician are you referring to that sounds like Bhangra? Do you also think that Gurdas Mann sound like Hank Williams Jr.?”

    Well both of them are semi-hypnotic devotional music predominating in the same region. I would be surprised that they haven’t inter-mingled or cross-influenced one another.

  33. 35 · Zachary Latif on June 5, 2010 7:28 AM · Direct link ZL: “Hmm interesting; re the Pakistani stuff that makes sense, ethnicity is a weak concept in Pakistan. Its really funny to hear these ethnic nationalists go on about anti-Punjabi diatribes; next thing you know their children have married Punjabis.” BM: “What are you talking about? Qawwali and Bhangra sound NOTHING alike! What Qawwali musician are you referring to that sounds like Bhangra? Do you also think that Gurdas Mann sound like Hank Williams Jr.?” ZL: “Well both of them are semi-hypnotic devotional music predominating in the same region. I would be surprised that they haven’t inter-mingled or cross-influenced one another.”

    Actually, I have read in the past that Qawalli has some of its roots in Hindu devotional music. It’s very possible that two very different forms of music were started in the same region by the same ethnic group, yet sound totally different (i.e. jazz and blues).

    Qawwalli has a less folksy sound to it, and it’s played with more “sophisticated” musical instruments. No silly thoombis. Men sing in chorus in Qawalli, and they use more expensive instruments like tabla, and NFAK played with many Western musical instruments.

  34. Wow. I don’t think Sepia Mutiny has had trolls as bad as this guy.

    Paranoid Schizophrena comes to mind…

  35. Zachary Latif wrote:

    To be honest I’ve always felt a strong anti-Muslim/Pakistan sentiment among the people born in those countries but never in the Diasporas. However growing up in Pak beyond the extreme resentment against India over Kashmir there isn’t the same “resentment”

    Really? (I’m not trying to question your experiences in Pakistan– I’m just curious.)

  36. TTCUSM: For many years, until the number of Pakistanis in America grew, Punjabi Pakistanis would see my father and greet him, especially if they heard him speaking Punjabi (family is from West Punjab so we speak the same dialect pretty much). There wasn’t any sense of unease.

  37. “Actually, I have read in the past that Qawalli has some of its roots in Hindu devotional music. It’s very possible that two very different forms of music were started in the same region by the same ethnic group, yet sound totally different (i.e. jazz and blues).”

    Yes it was only till the 16/17th century that the Punjab or the West Punjab became “securely Muslim”. There has been no good study on syncretism in the Punjab, a tragedy since Punjabi identity is frequently alluded too but never expanded. After all more than any other region/province it was Punjab, which bore the brunt of Partition and the consequent bloodshed. Gandhi saved Bengal from similar bloodshed; for which he should have been canonised and awarded a noble peace prize.

    I spent the first 5yrs in Kuwait, the 90s in the Pakistan and the 00′s in Britain.

    This is my own personal impression of a Gulf-born Pakistani non Muslim (Iranian mother) Londoner.

    Basically growing up in Pakistan we have little love lost for India but despite some anti-Hindu prejudice (Pakistan when it comes to religion sort of aspired to Deobandi/Wahhabism and everyone outside of this really fall short), the majority of it is rooted over Kashmir (which is Pakistan’s Alsace-Lorraine). In the Brit-asian community in London there is a very strong identity of British Asian but now that’s splitting into British Asian & British Asian Muslim. This has to do with the fact that Sikhs & Hindus have done relatively better and obviosuly Muslims are perceived to be worse at integrating. So the Paks & Bengalis are forming a sort of young super-ethnicity, in the 90′s during the frequent trips to Europe I’d hear of cross Indo-Pak marriages, now however when Brit-Paks marry “out” more often than not they are doing so with Bangladeshis.

    I don’t know if this borne out of the stats but this my impression.

    “Really? (I’m not trying to question your experiences in Pakistan– I’m just curious.)”

    By what I mean of my personal perception of Indian dislike, its very subtle but I liken it to “irredentism”. Pakistanis and Muslims are continually perceived as the “lost children” of India. There isn’t an appreciation for a distinct identity of South Asian Muslims however in the 5 cross marriages I’ve seen involving Hindu/Sikhs the Hindu/Sikh families are resolutely against it. The cultural conservatism is so high and there isn’t an opt-in since there is no conversion into the faith; at least with Muslim cross-marriage the partner may “nominally convert”.

    I just see that with Pakistanis we acknowledge we are hyper conservative but the reality is that we’re much much more liberal than we actually show to be. However the inverse holds for Indian, Indians I meet assure me that caste/communalism is dead and how extraordinarily open-minded everyone is in the new India but sometimes regurgitate the most awful prejudices (one girl told me that IITs only recruit the cream of the crops that’s why there were so few Muslim/low castes in it).

    Also all of them believe that Muslims of South Asias are natives who were converted by the sword. Serious scholarship has completely debunked that notion; conversions were almost never by the sword otherwise it the Hindi belt would have been the Muslim heartland.

    The historigraphy of India I feel is somewhat subject; not to give Pak/Bangladesh a white pass but their issues are much more obvious and therefore correctible.

  38. Wow. I don’t think Sepia Mutiny has had trolls as bad as this guy.

    Excuse me but who’s the troll you’re referring to?

  39. It is rather funny that everyone in my generation of cousins & brothers are marrying/dating Indians (Hindu/Sikhs); all of my extended family are Indian. That’s just because as a liberal family, with no particularly strong religious tradition (prefer to think of ourselves as ecumenical and secular) Indians have a much more secular and adaptable culture (with a tinge of anti-Muslim anti-Pak resentment). The liberal Pakistanis verge on decadence (making them ineligible to marry) and the religious Pakistanis are too religious; but both sides agree that their offspring must be nominally “Muslim”, whereas what I like about Indian culture is that Indianess is a looser and flexible concept. So basically marrying an (Westernised) Indian for us is marrying someone who shares the same light desi culture but with a western mindset and respect for spirituality without being overly religious.

    What I find in Pakistan there is a very clear divide between religious and liberal Pakistanis; for the latter anything goes and they are the elite. The “religious” Pakistanis are the lower-middle class and Urdu speaking middle class and they are extraordinarily conservative. But our chattering classes are a breath of fresh air; virtually zero prejudice and extraordinarily cosmopolitan. Even when the liberals are “religious” they have the lite Sufi kind, which is a bit new agey.

    I find among Indians there doesn’t exist this equally clear divide; even when a Hindu is an atheist they remain a part of the community and self-identify as Hindus. Hinduism/Sikhism identity are much more “cultural” than religious whereas a Muslim identity is almost entirely religious; once you aren’t religious as a Muslim you can be extraordinarily liberal & western; which is now a huge problem in Pakistan since our chattering classes are way too Westernised and materialistic.

  40. It is rather funny that everyone in my generation of cousins & brothers are marrying/dating Indians (Hindu/Sikhs)

    Are there girls/women among these cousins ? Not to be sarcastic or anything but there is a general perception (belief ? prejudice ?) among Hindus/Sikhs that Muslims cross-marry to increase their numbers and this is reflected in the gender mix of such cross-marriages.

    On a somewhat related tangent, Akbar is often held up as a paragon of syncretism because he married Hindu princesses. But I am not aware of him – or any of his successors – marrying his daughters to Hindu Rajput noblemen.

  41. “Are there girls/women among these cousins ? Not to be sarcastic or anything but there is a general perception (belief ? prejudice ?) among Hindus/Sikhs that Muslims cross-marry to increase their numbers and this is reflected in the gender mix of such cross-marriages.”

    I think it is rather “presumptuous” (its definitely a prejudice/stereotype) to think that Muslim families bless sons marrying out but daughters marrying in. Admittedly its a patriarchal society but there is an overwhelming preference to marry within the community rather than “dilute” the other side.

    Its these reasons why I suggest people-people contact, the most interaction will reduce these impressions.

    “On a somewhat related tangent, Akbar is often held up as a paragon of syncretism because he married Hindu princesses. But I am not aware of him – or any of his successors – marrying his daughters to Hindu Rajput noblemen.”

    Akbar actually instituted the policy of no marriage for Mughal princesses at all until the time of Aurganzeb.

  42. also Wunderbar there is a very simple reason why Hindu girls (don’t know about sikh) marry out, they are much more confident than the guys. Same like with Asian Americans.

    I can see, anecdotally, that in this generation alot of Indian girls marry out of community and culture; even with Western men. Don’t want to blow this out of context but funnily enough I notice that Indian girls marry outsiders but Indian guys stick for the traditional girl back in India. Which is pretty strange in the sense if u are an ABCD to marry someone from India can be a bit of a culture shock.

    I wish this mechanism existed in the Pakistani community where the culture would be more relaxed for girls to marry out of the culture. Desi men don’t want (as a generalisation) to marry highly opinionated and outspoken women; but Western men actually are much more relaxed coming from an emancipated culture.

    These are my thoughts as a Desi guy so apologies if I generalize too much as most anecdotal evidence can be contrary to mainstream.

  43. As Razib has pointed out over and over there is no difference in the number of Indian men marrying out and indian women marrying out.

    As for hindu/sikh-muslim marriages there are no stats but either way it is not likely muslim women will advertise that. And why would Akbar marry the women of his court to hose he has conquered? Sikh men married muslim women iduring Ranjit Singh’s reign. You think Ranjit Singh should have married his women to Pathans and Punjabis muslims?

    One not so large survey found 4.3% of muslim men are married to hindu/sikh women while 4.5% of muslim women are married to hindu/sikh men. Google muslims marrying dharmics to find the survey.

  44. Hmmm… I have about ten (both Desi and Iranian) Muslim workmates, three of whom (two women and one man) are married to Christians. Is this statistically unlikely?

  45. Excuse me but who’s the troll you’re referring to?

    The senator.

  46. “As Razib has pointed out over and over there is no difference in the number of Indian men marrying out and indian women marrying out.”

    I’d be interested to know the equivalence for second-gen Muslims in the US, would be a good way to correct the perception “Muslim men marry out but not the women”.

    “Sikh men married muslim women iduring Ranjit Singh’s reign. You think Ranjit Singh should have married his women to Pathans and Punjabis muslims?”

    Didn’t know that; good to know actually.

    “Hmmm… I have about ten (both Desi and Iranian) Muslim workmates, three of whom (two women and one man) are married to Christians. Is this statistically unlikely?”

    Iranians tend to marry out.

  47. at least with Muslim cross-marriage the partner may “nominally convert”.

    Meaning the bigotry towards non Muslims is so entrenched they have to convert to be accepted into a family.

    Hindus and Sikhs not expecting people to convert to their faith is a sign of tolerance.