I left work later than I intended to tonight, and this concerned me because I’m in the middle of a rather difficult move from one apartment to another here in Chocolate City. Moving. Ugh, right? Anyway, while worrying that I now had even LESS time to sort and pack my crap, I overheard something important on NPR. “Maybe I was meant to run late”, I mused to myself…maybe, indeed.
What I ended up listening to had me riveted to the news [though it wasn’t quite a driveway moment— that would be challenging here in the city :)]. NPR’s All Things Considered co-host Robert Siegel was interviewing a Michigan-based attorney named Kurt Haskell; Haskell was aboard Northwest flight 253, along with Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man who attempted to blow it up on Christmas day.
While all of you are aware of this horrifying incident, a few of you may be unaware of some disturbing additional information pertaining to that attack. On NPR, Haskell described a scene he witnessed with his wife prior to boarding that ill-fated flight home to Detroit. He recalled seeing terror suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab escorted to the gate by a “well-dressed Indian man”, who tried to intervene on Abdulmutallab’s behalf and browbeat an airline employee in to overlooking the fact that the wanna-be martyr lacked a passport. WTF? Who gets to board anything without a passport, these days? And also, uh, INDIAN? I think he meant South Asian, because if Mr. Haskell is anything like me, he was born here and probably can’t tell the difference between a Pakistani and a Sri Lankan from a mere glance.
Let me perfectly clear: I did not come out of semi-hiding to write this post for the purpose of moaning that now “we” look “bad”, nor am I digging in my heels and protesting this “slur” against all good Yindians from Yindia. Aside: I think this incident illustrates a point I have long-made on this blog and it illustrates it very well; nuance and difference are lost on most people. While many of my first and a few of my second generation friends hotly protest being lumped in with “those” Pakistanis or “those” Indians (depending on whether they are the former or latter, mais oui), I roll my eyes for many reasons, including the fact that racists and other assholes just see curry. Brown. Apu. Outsourcing. Perhaps now, Jay Sean.
They sure as hell don’t assume that I’m a Christian or know where Kerala is– to most of the people with whom I interact, I’m Brown, most probably Hindu, and possibly on my way to an Arranged Marriage which I can then write about in poor chick-lit form, via a book with any combination of henna, mangoes, sari pallus and whatever else, flanked by an ersatz Indic font on the cover. Yay for predictable fiction! /aside
So why DID I write this post? Because.
a) Apparently everyone/everything really IS connected to someone Brown these days (!)
b) Haskell was so sure that the man ushering Abdulmutallab was Indian that he said as much a few times during the interview which I overheard, and NOT ONCE was he asked about this detail…not even via a tentative, “Well, you think the man was Indian, correct?”
c) Almost every article I’ve read since, including a post on ATC’s own blog omits this potent adjective. See for yourself:
As we reported earlier, Haskell (a Michigan lawyer) has been telling investigators and the news media about a conversation he says he heard before passengers boarded Northwest flight 253 to Detroit on Christmas Day.
According to Haskell, Abdulmutallab and an older, well-dressed man approached an airline employee. The older man said Abdulmutallab was Sudanese, had no passport, but needed to get on the flight. The airline employee directed them to a manager and the men went down a hallway. Haskell says he never saw the older man again, and didn’t see Abdulmutallab until the incident aboard the flight as it approached Detroit — when the Nigerian (the suspect is not Sudanese) allegedly tried to ignite some typeof explosive. [npr]
Interesting, right?
I haven’t found anything else which mentions the “Indian” mystery man who helped put an evil criminal on Flight 253, but whatever his ethnic origin, if he was aware of what he was participating in then I wish him a similarly painful, scorched-balls-sort of fate, and I fervently hope that he, too, fails at harming innocent people.
::
Because I am in the middle of moving during a holiday week, I hope you will take extra pains to be civil to each other in the comment thread below. I do not have internet access in my new home (yet) and even if I did, I do not have the time to wade through comment-drama. I want to thank you in advance for your sure-to-be thoughtful words; I hope I am not given a reason (or fifty) to regret posting this. 🙂
why is anti-muslim immediately a cause for indians to be simpatico? and what does pro hindu mean? also you should read nussbaum before having an opinion on her.
Martha Nussbaum and Paul Brass never say anything about the persecution of Hindu minorities in Pakistan, Bangladesh or the Indian state of Kashmir. All their ‘research’ has to do with maligning Hindus, particularly those of the Hindutva persuasion.
hindutva is not equivalent to hindu. as islamic terrorists are not equivalent to muslims.
“hindutva is not equivalent to hindu. as islamic terrorists are not equivalent to muslims.”
And Hindutva is positively not equivalent to Islamic terror. You can vote those parties into power, and vote them out if you don’t want them in office anymore. There is also no global threat of Hindutva groups blowing up airplanes, or hijacking fishing boats, landing on foreign shores, and massacring people in hotels, clubs and restaurants. Hindutva blends in with secular, democratic laws; it does not seek to subvert or counter them with its own version of Sharia( the Manusmriti?) . No country outside of India, is the least bit concerned about the activities of these Hindu groups on their soil, as far as violence, dogmatism, archaic laws, position of women, opposition to democracy and secularism goes. It’s pure slander to equate the Hindutva organisations with Al Qaeda, the Taliban or the Lashkar-E-Toiba.
who said it is? dont get your chuddies in a bunch. but you still didnt address the central contention: “hindutva is not equivalent to hindu. as islamic terrorists are not equivalent to muslims.”
no only intra country in india, that’s right.
no it doesn’t.
I am agreeing with Xeno on this one– Hindutva may not be global, but certainly is doing many many bad things inside of India. It does want to impose it’s hard-line view of Hinduism on India, and it wants Hindu state. This state would have no room for minorities in India.. Hindutva types are the ones saying all da Muselman should go to Pakistan where they belong and all that. The Hindutva is like the Hilter of India– they want to wipe anyone but the pure Hindus out.
Maya,
You seem really misinformed about what ‘hindutva’ is.. Establishing India as a “hindu’ state does not mean that there would be no room for minorities or that they want to ‘wipe’ them all out.. What they really want is to establish India as a hindu version of Pakistan or Bangladesh with respect to the role of religion in the workings of the State..
I am no fan of the movement, but if you are going to comment on them, at least try and learn what they are actually proposing.. And yes, they are nothing like Al Quaida or LET , but more like the mainstream Islamic organizations and political parties that exist.
The problem is groups like al qaeda aren’t exactly out of the mainstream in nations where the state is intertwined with islam. Many beliefs associated with radical islam, like say Israel being responsible for 911, are to the non-Islamic mind radical, but in the context of Islamic states actually mainstream, as various pols have demonstrated.. thus the relationship between Pakistan, her religious parties, and al quaeda is somewhat analogous to the relationship between the US, Dixiecrat’s, and the KKK. The latter group may be considered extreme, but its just a product of the racism within the larger community, one enabled by mainstream politicians…indeed the KKK itself was once considered a mainstream organization, playing a role in US politics somewhat analogous to that of hezbollah (a mix of right-wing terroism and progressive politics).
Hindus are misguided to use these asshats as models.
Since I have not been in U.S. too long, I am still often feeling shocked at the amount of Hindus in U.S. who are supporting the Hindutva people. In India sure there are some, but most people steer clear of this thing as they know it is not good. There is Hindutva type political group on campus in India, but also many other groups. These Hindutva type’s do not have good intentions in mind. Maybe if you are in U.S. too long, you are feeling that you are missing this Hindu part of life, and so go to extreme right and join this groups. But you are isolated from this group and it’s talk on the ground. This group is not just “pro” Hindu but very hateful towards all the other peoples of India. I am some very good friends from my graduation days who are Muselman, and in these Hindutva minds these friends of mine are not deserving of Indian citizenship even when they grew up beside me, go to same schools and have same love of the country India. The Hindutwa will tell them to go to Pakistan, and that this is not their country. This is just wrong and hateful. Hindutva wanna wipe out all the other cultural groups in our country and wipe out all da cultural contributions from non-Hindus in the nation. They want to make state like Taliban in Afghanistan– wipe out and ignore anything but the religion they prescribe.
Don’t get me wrong, Hinduism is a great religion and I am proud of it– but we don’t have one book or one way to live– it is open for people to do puja as they see fit. This Hindutva crowd wants to wipe this out of Hinduism and try to make us follow their rules. This is not what Hinduism is and is putting bad name on Hinduism.
Maya et al, Hindutva at most seeks a primacy for Sanskrit, the Vedas, the epics, and the pre-Moslem, pre-Christian history of India. It asks that all Indians accept this position as well. Someone like a Kalam( former president) or a Yesudas( Christian, who sings Hindu devotional music) is highly regarded among the Hindutva group( and non-Hindutva as well) , and neither of those figures has been compelled to give up their religion. Lots of Indian Hindus, not just supporters of Hindutva, think that Islamic invasions and rule were atrocious. And by all accounts, it was.
Your accusation of the Hindutva people wanting to make India like the Taliban is simply false. The Taliban has banned music, movies, painting, women working outside the home, the very expression of other religions. Again, you can vote in, or vote out, the BJP or any other Hindu organisation.
Moslem separatism and terrorism is a serious problem in India today, and it is with that background that a few aggressive Hindus demand that some or most Moslems ‘go to Pakistan’. It’s not right to do that, but look at India’s current environment and history. You are going to to have people expressing those sentiments. Let the US go through what India has been, then see the result.
Maya,
I am not a supporter of hindutva, and I’m sure there are people in the movement who are bigots as you describe, but I think the comparisions to Hitler are overblown. They really are much closer to the muslim league of the pre-independance era or many other political groups in islamic countries than the Nazis.. You honestly believe that the hindu nationalist parties are actively planning on ‘wiping out’ the 200 million non-hindus from India ? Or that they could even attempt such a thing even if they wanted to ? Describing hindutva in such hyperbolic terms doesn’t do much to actually tackle the issues that create these movements or understand where they get their support.
Going back to the article, I think Haskell’s insistence that the guy was Indian is a little suspect, as there’s no way he could have been certain of the nationality.. In any case, I understand that the authoriites are confirming that the terrorist did have a passport and visa, which makes the entire account a little curious, especially as no airline is going to let anyone board an international flight without a passport.
what is terrorizing minorities by vhp. bajrang dal etc.? and not just evil muslim minorities. (i know evil is a redundancy).
turn back the clock to a nativist hinduism for all. and tack on victorian morality due to their poor grasp of history. to create one narrow version of “hindu culture” for all
ding. ding. ding. its a late entry but wehave a winner for understatement of the decade.
Everyone: thank you so much for keeping things civil– Comcast flaked on me again, so I still have no internet at home and thus moderating is a challenge. If I can make one request though: can we please close the Hindutva portion of this discussion? Instead, I’d love to hear more about your own reactions to this story (some of you mentioned on FB that you were listening to ATC too, and that you, too, noticed this segment). If we could get back on-topic, I’d appreciate it. 🙂 Thank you!
“Instead, I’d love to hear more about your own reactions to this story”
Aghast at the ignorance and lack of awareness that Americans, even educated ones like Haskell, display. There’s also a possibility that Haskell feels a degree of hostility toward Indians( for whatever reason) so he dragged them into this issue, without a qualifying statement such as “The guy could have been Pakistani, if the intent was to bomb the airplane. Or an Indian Moslem radical” Just leaving it open-ended strikes you as irresponsible or motivated- I hope not the latter.
it’s good thing you have no hostility to anybody 🙂
ANNA, my apology. Did not see your request until I sent comment and refreshed page. Please delete if you would like. Thank you.
~Maya
As a Pakistani Canadian reading posts on sepiamutiny, it makes me really sad to see all the anti pakistan and anti muslim comments. Being pro- hindu doesn’t mean being anti- muslim (well, I’m Muslim, so I’m sure I’m biased). Yes there have been people from Pakistan that have been terrorists, and there have been people who call themselves muslim who have been terrorists but that doesn’t mean you have to be prejudiced against all muslims. The majority of us haven’t done anything wrong and hate being racially profiled as much as the rest of the you. It’s not like if you’re from Pakistan, you deserve to be racially profiled as opposed to being Indian. They should improved their screening at airports, and like the news outlets have said, Umar really should have been caught earlier. Racial profiling because of skin color doesn’t help anyone, especially as most of you have noted, many people could pass as being from many different countries. Also, obviously totally agree that the word “Indian” should not have used if they did not know what country he was from.
not in varun’s or
euro’srob’s books. you are guilty until proven innocent.@ Maya #102: “Don’t get me wrong, Hinduism is a great religion and I am proud of it– but we don’t have one book or one way to live– it is open for people to do puja as they see fit. This Hindutva crowd wants to wipe this out of Hinduism and try to make us follow their rules. This is not what Hinduism is and is putting bad name on Hinduism.”
This is a remark I agree with very much. Hinduism is about acceptance (sanathan dharma), let not the Hindutvadis claim it to be something else. At the same time, 4 am loudspeaker namaz everyday is not something that is very secular, so the muselmans also need to learn some courtesy and tolerance.
I’m going to have to agree with Oruvan’s comment (#56) regarding Haskell’s use of the word “Indian”. Based on my experiences, I haven’t met very many Americans who can tell the difference between Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, and Sri Lankans. Therefore, it’s entirely possible that Haskell is using this incident as an opportunity to vent some sort of anti-Indian screed (after all, outsourcing continues to be a major issue for many American workers).
That being said, I wouldn’t have felt any better if he had said “Middle Easterner” or “South Asian” instead, since Hindus can also be the targets of anti-Arab or anti-Muslim prejudice.
Jodha at Langar Hall has an interesting take on this issue:
“At the same time, 4 am loudspeaker namaz everyday is not something that is very secular, so the muselmans also need to learn some courtesy and tolerance.”
Hahaha! This is true.. but also in my natal place a temple near by is always blasting loud kirtan from before sunrise… once some families request they not play since their children where studies for exams and they got upset and refused, saying it is God’s blessings, so they should enjoy this and it will give blessing to their children for exams!
I’m saying this not as a brown guy or as an Indian, but as a tax-payer annoyed by yet more ineffective non-solutions from the TSA and State Department. All that has happened so far is this:
Someone who should have been on a no-fly list was issued a visa, while my DBD friends (IITians included) have been denied or delayed their visas because “Ooh! You know technology! Who’s to say you won’t use it against me?”. It’s gratifying to see the State Department live up to its stereotyped reputation as a group of supine incompetents who could not recognize technology if it rickrolled them.
Someone carrying explosives who slipped through an airport that was not under the TSA’s remit has now, for reasons unknown, provoked the TSA into deploying its pointy object police in full force against US-based pen-wielders and shampoo-users and making everyone scared of laps, laptops, pillows, and pillow-humpers. That’s the TSA, traffickers in irrational and disproportionate misresponses, and experts in closing the barn door since 2001.
The disquieting part is that instead of demanding greater (some, any) accountability, we’re not only giving credence to some delusional dipshit who claims to have seen someone fly internationally without a passport (!), we’re also arguing about his geographical expertise in distinguishing Indians from Pakistanis. Why?
“pillow-humpers”
Can you please explain this?
cio – you noticed the “anti pakistan and anti muslim” comments but not the scores of comments severely criticizing those offending comments? at least on an indian run forum there are many who will take on those unfairly targetting islam and pakistan, but were one to go to a pakistani or muslim run forum, the utterly irrational type of hindu/india/jew/israel/america bashing that goes on there makes me ashamed to be from pakistan.
cio – i refer you, among others to comment number 109; if you socialize amongst pakistanis, you would have a really, really tough time finding someone expressing such opinions about hindus. such as how much the hindu culture contributed to not only south asian islam but even islam beyond.
I wrote:
I probably should elaborate on this. According to CNN, a Hindu temple in Matawan, NJ was firebombed during the week after 9/11.
Should we really be paying attention to the comments by Haskell ? I find it very hard to believe that a person could just board a flight without a passport.. Haskell is also being interviewed by Alex Jones who’s a well known conspiracy theorist, and who is building this whole bomb plot up as a ‘false flag’ operation alleging that this “indian” guy was some kind of us govt agent .
Jay – you have a point. i remember that news reports did mention that he recieved a visa to enter america, where he had visited before [houston, i think]. and wouldn’t travelling without a passport only increase scrutiny and more likely bring a pre mature ending to his plane downing wet dream.
Sam
Yeah, the whole story as recounted by Haskell seems a little fishy.. If he had a valid visa then there’s no need for him to be at the gate without a passport, to arouse any sort of suspicion. Either there is some sort of govt conspiracy/cover up going on or more likely, someone is looking for their 15 mins of fame..
The nightly news today reported that he had a valid Nigerian passport with a U.S. Visa.
Jay – you have a point. i remember that news reports did mention that he recieved a visa to enter america, where he had visited before [houston, i think]. and wouldn’t travelling without a passport only increase scrutiny and more likely bring a pre mature ending to his plane downing wet dream.Sam – Yeah, the whole story as recounted by Haskell seems a little fishy.. If he had a valid visa then there’s no need for him to be at the gate without a passport, to arouse any sort of suspicion. Either there is some sort of govt conspiracy/cover up going on or more likely, someone is looking for their 15 mins of fame..
Finally, 2 + 2 = 4 after 100 odd comments.
Haskell was probably smoking a lot of cannabis in Holland, and so is lot of commenter @ SM except Jay, pingpong and few others. Watch TV or read the newspaper.
In extreme rare cases (refugee, political asylum), you cannot do overseas air travel without passport and visa (even Canada wants passport or similar identification for Americans these days, no more driver’s license only), airlines will never do it (boarding anyone without visa and passport), they get fined upwards of $20,000 per case. Only, the destination country (USA in this case) has to OK before at the highest levels. Even countries with no tourist visa arrangement require passport.
Umar had a visa to US, visa is in most cases (so that it cannot be transferred to someone else) is stamped on a passport. So visas and passport are joined at the hip. He had a multiple entry visa to USA for a while, and had visited US before.
Umar was never on “no fly” list, he was another watch list that has half a million names on it.
Even if Umar visa was to be revoked (if they had acted on his father’s warning), how do you informed all the airlines, other than putting him on a “no fly” list. The only common list all the airlines and the US govt. share for US travel is the “no fly” list.
Terrorists (lone, or amateur, or belonging to a group) as a rule blend in, and do not bring attention to themselves which would get them apprehended before the act. Why would he try to travel without a passport, and bring attention to himself.
Who cares Haskell is babbling about an “Indian” or should have said “South Asian” instead? Sure, when nearly 300 poeple are boarded, they are some cases without visa and passport, attempting to board without success but I do not think it was Umar in this case. I can credit Haskell is confusing him to another African he had seen on Amsterdam airport.
Or maybe, it is a conspiracy with the Indian man as a US agent. Or was he a South Asian American secret agent……because there is no way a Nigerian can board a plane to US without passport and visa.
This is not a newspaper, it’s a group blog. To me (call me a curmudgeon and call it a day), blogs are usually personal, not professional spaces. At our best, we discuss common issues and experiences and enjoy “Hey, it’s not just me!”- moments with each other.
I was not on the plane. I did not see the “Indian” man, the terrorist or either of their passports. I was in my car, listening to NPR like a few million other people do, when I overheard this story and thought it was interesting enough to try and blog. I never asserted or insisted that this man lacked a passport; my post contains my own reaction to the possibility that he flew without a passport. My reaction was “WTF?” To those who think I’m “stupid” for disseminating “lies” (thanks for the emails!), I have to ask: was NPR (and everyone else) stupid for reporting it? Let’s take the snide-factor down a few notches, shall we? It’s exactly what I didn’t miss about blogging here.
To those who have contributed great comments and useful links- thank you. To those who have wished me well or expressed happiness that I wrote– I am not worthy of such sweetness and affection. Thank you, too. 🙂
“it’s good thing you have no hostility to anybody :)”
It’s simple common sense that an Indian, specifically an Indian Hindu( or Parsee, Jain, Christian, Jew) has no reason to blow up an American plane, or assist in that task. Whereas a Pakistani is likely to do that. Or perhaps an Islamic radical from India, belonging to Islamic terror groups like SIMI, the Indian Mujahadeen or the various Indian cells of Pakistani terror outfits like the Lashkar-E-Toiba, the Jash-E-Mohammed and the Harkat-Ul-Ansar.
Indian Hindus have no history, no ideology, no end-goal for destroying American or international passenger airplanes. If someone is making an accusation that an Indian could be involved in some way, there should be an explanation of sorts as to what the motive could be. Is the VHP upset with the US, because Narendra Modi was not allowed in the country, and hence blowing up an American airplane is their way of getting back at the US? Incidentally, this line of thinking is so ridiculous, I feel silly even mentioning it.
Hello there, I am from Sri Lanka living in Michigan. I was also thrown out of my chair when I saw on TV Haskell uttering the word “Indian” at least three times.
The problem is that without knowing for sure attaching a nationality or race to a terrorist who almost killed 253 or more is quiet different than saying “I assume that gold medal went to an Indian”. We saw this kind of ignorance lead to shoot and kill a Sikh man working in a gas station (I believed it was in Texas) just after 9-11 since he looked liked a Taliban. Then the London Police pumped several bullets in to the head and killed a Brazilian youth just after train bombing in London assuming he was a terrorist from Pakistan.
In my opinion Haskell gave a full story that he had created in his mind (true or false we do not know yet). Haskell depicted it as the Terrorist acted like a poorly dressed refugee and the dressed up man there to help the terrorist who were there without a passport to get on board.” But, it has already proved the terrorist had a passport, a valid US visa and a return ticket that he used in Lagos to get into first leg of his journey on a KLM flight. Ticket agent at the Amsterdam airport could not be an immigration officer. Why the terrorist was scared to show his passport to the agent though it may have visas from Yemen or Sudan or whatever – something not clear yet if it was the case.
Meantime Dutch authority is saying, the terrorist used his passport at the Amsterdam airport questioning the credibility of Haskell’s story. If you read the news at this local Michigan site: http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/dutch_counter-terrorism_agency.html, the word “Indian” is missing now and only “a well-dressed man” appear. Also, Haskell is defending his story and saying he is not there to make money giving TV interviews or, to be on Reality TV shows or, from a book deal. So, it is still a mystery and we all should agree we also wanted to find whomever ”knowingly” helped this terrorist should be tracked down no matter what the nationality or race. Visited the site first time an enjoyed reading some of your comments. Cheers!
Last note: Profiling is good if it is based on facts and after proper research. Remember, what that economic terrorist Madoff did stabbing on the back of many families with a nice smile swindling 65 billions of dollars over a decade. Though Madoff made many many families to live in cars and shelters with their children, I believe he is still has a better life than of a murderer in the jail. Shame!
It doesnt help that Indians are the 1st ones to jump to play a middle eastern terrorist for a movie or tv show.
At least Indian actors have steady work now.
false
and i am not even including dhiren barot who was born in india and has a hindu name.
well, is he not indian then?
how about money?
hmm, i should tell my pakistani friends that it is my duty to prevent them from getting on a plane. guilty until proven innocent for being born in the wrong country.
anyway, varun shekhar, good luck in hoping that the world engages in your selective bigotry. i’ll eat my hat the day bigotry against pakistanis and bangladeshis and arabs and indian muslims, the way you’d like it, is so precise and fine that indian hindus escape unscathed. yours is a self-defeating approach, which you should discard purely from a pragmatic pov even without involving qualities like humanity, decency and morality that appear to be in severe short supply,
Can Desis tell the difference?
I mean, if said persons are not dressed or speaking in a manner that is giving away their ethnic/cultural/national/whatever identity?
Seriously? Can Desis tell the difference between other Desis?
I remember being in India and immediately recognizing some Ethiopian tourists. The other Desis with me thought they were Desi.
“b) Haskell was so sure that the man ushering Abdulmutallab was Indian that he said as much a few times during the interview which I overheard, and NOT ONCE was he asked about this detail…not even via a tentative, “Well, you think the man was Indian, correct?”
First, he didn’t say Abdulmutallab was Indian, he said the older man was. How do we know he wasn’t Indian? While it’s true, many, MANY people can’t tell the diference, even between a Korean and Mexican, but assuming that Haskell doesn’t recognize the differences is just as wrong. I can tell the difference, even what part of India a person is from, and I’m not nearly as well traveled as Haskell. As far as the difference between being Sudanese and Nigerian, they’re only 400 miles apart. One’s physical characteristics don’t change based on which side of a political border one lives. There are Mexicans that look more white than me (and I’m a ghost), and there are Americans that don’t even speak English, because they can get by in their community in the US by only speaking Spanish.
What’s my point? It’s just as bad to jump to the conclusion that someone is racist or ignorant without all of the information as it is to be racist or ignorant. Don’t try to use this as an example in how horrible the world is to “brown people”. I believe that doing so is racist and ignorant.
And if you RTFP, you’d realize that she never said he did. Actually, if you just read the part of the post which YOU quoted in your own comment, you wouldn’t have needed your “first” point. But you were probably in too much of a hurry to type this gem:
Well, look at you, on a brown website, schooling us dumb identity politickin’ types on how you can do what we can’t. Seriously, even if you could do what you claim to be able to, I wouldn’t brag about it, especially in a space like this. I believe doing so isn’t just ignorant, it’s presumptuous.
FWIW I think it is possible to visually differentiate between northern and southern Desis. This isn’t always true – but it is in many cases. Those that dont agree generally havent been around enough desis.
The FBI Director should immediately go before the American people and explain why the man that was seen by closed circuit security cameras at Amsterdam’s International Gate and by two creditable witness’s, one who is a US Attorney as sneaking the Nigerian Muslim butt-bomber past Amsterdam’s security checks and onto a International Flight to America without a passport, Is NOT on the FBI MOST WANTED FUGITIVES LIST.
America’s News Media from day ONE, should be demanding the photo of the Nigerian Muslim butt-bomber’s Passport among the items police collected when that man was treated for his burns and locked into jail.
World News Media from day ONE, should be demanding the security camera photo of the man who sneaked the Nigerian Muslim butt-bomber past Amsterdam’s security checks and onto a International Flight to America without a passport.
That man was either a US Diplomat, or a US Govt. Agent (CIA), no one else could waive the International law which prohibits passengers without passports from flying from Amsterdam to America without a passport.
That man obviously didn’t board the International Flight himself and that seriously suggests he knew the Nigerian man he was sneaking past the Amsterdam’s security check points had a bomb on him and was going to bomb that airliner.
I strongly disagree with this point (though I appreciate your commencing it with a “FWIW” and your sandwiched disclaimer). It may be possible, but I don’t think it’s true in “many cases”. I am especially disturbed by your last sentence, because it’s insulting. It’s a popular and offensive canard, the whole authenticity-insider-shtick. If someone doesn’t agree with your point, they haven’t been around enough Desis? It also begs the nonsensical question, how many Desis is enough? Enough for what? AFAIK, there is no underground manual of cataloged Brownness being maintained in Edison, NJ, filled with truths which are evident to people who have been around a suitable number of South Asians.
I assure you, I have been around “enough” Desis, and all that has done is convince me that while one may be able to generalize about things to a point, assuming anything about someone just by phenotype is, at best, an exercise in futility. I know 100% South Indian people who are mistaken for Pathans, Gujus and the like. I think I look completely Malayalee but my Bengali ex-bf’s mom swore I could’ve been related to her. Here in D.C., people assume I’m Ethiopian before Indian. The people doing the assuming are always Ethiopian. Shouldn’t they be able to differentiate between one of their own vs. a Desi? It’s amazing that people think they can accurately divine something like ethnicity. Personally, I’ve always thought that if someone is “great” at that dubious hobby, it has more to do with luck than skill.
A Smith
As far as I know the only evidence we have for this mystery man who helped the bomber board without a passport is Haskell’s story.. Either it is all some kind of govt conspiracy or Haskell is mistaken in what he thought he saw or is trying to gain some fame.. I haven’t seen any interviews with the gate agent and the airport has confirmed that the terrorist had a valid passport . If this was some kind of govt conspiracy, why would they risk creating a scene at the gate by not supplying the bomber with a passport ?
It’s kind of strange that we are debating the nationality of this mystery man, when we don’t really have any credible evidence that he even exists.
“FWIW I think it is possible to visually differentiate between northern and southern Desis. This isn’t always true – but it is in many cases. Those that dont agree generally havent been around enough desis.”
Now, I am sure I will be yelled at for some reason or other, but I just wanted to very meekly mention that looking at Indians, I can make an educated guess of where they are from from certain things–especially Rajastani, Punjabi (and no, I don’t just mean a Sikh in a turban), Gujurati, Bengali… I haven’t been to South India as much but South Indians looks a bit different (most of the time) from North.
Nigerian Muslim butt-bomber’s
Uhh, that’s underpants bomber to you, sir.
I’m not entirely sure what is at stake with my being confused with an Indian commenter; at any rate, we have had some Hindus at Vlaams Belang meetings in my natal city of Antwerp, and I said above they have provided useful information about limiting the sort of immigration that is not working for us.
This will also be true if the tourists were from Micronesia and a number of other places.
Your boyfriend looks like a south indian, or like the great majority of north indians. If Haskell or any other person who is not completely clueless saw your boyfriend/husband he would assume he was “indian”. Just as if you saw a blond person you would assume he was of european origin. Exceptions only prove the rule.
ANNACHECHY, You look completely malayalee .You know Bengalis and Malayalees have a lot of things in common.Looks are one of the many amongst it. Malayalees and Bengalis look alike.