I left work later than I intended to tonight, and this concerned me because I’m in the middle of a rather difficult move from one apartment to another here in Chocolate City. Moving. Ugh, right? Anyway, while worrying that I now had even LESS time to sort and pack my crap, I overheard something important on NPR. “Maybe I was meant to run late”, I mused to myself…maybe, indeed.
What I ended up listening to had me riveted to the news [though it wasn’t quite a driveway moment— that would be challenging here in the city :)]. NPR’s All Things Considered co-host Robert Siegel was interviewing a Michigan-based attorney named Kurt Haskell; Haskell was aboard Northwest flight 253, along with Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man who attempted to blow it up on Christmas day.
While all of you are aware of this horrifying incident, a few of you may be unaware of some disturbing additional information pertaining to that attack. On NPR, Haskell described a scene he witnessed with his wife prior to boarding that ill-fated flight home to Detroit. He recalled seeing terror suspect Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab escorted to the gate by a “well-dressed Indian man”, who tried to intervene on Abdulmutallab’s behalf and browbeat an airline employee in to overlooking the fact that the wanna-be martyr lacked a passport. WTF? Who gets to board anything without a passport, these days? And also, uh, INDIAN? I think he meant South Asian, because if Mr. Haskell is anything like me, he was born here and probably can’t tell the difference between a Pakistani and a Sri Lankan from a mere glance.
Let me perfectly clear: I did not come out of semi-hiding to write this post for the purpose of moaning that now “we” look “bad”, nor am I digging in my heels and protesting this “slur” against all good Yindians from Yindia. Aside: I think this incident illustrates a point I have long-made on this blog and it illustrates it very well; nuance and difference are lost on most people. While many of my first and a few of my second generation friends hotly protest being lumped in with “those” Pakistanis or “those” Indians (depending on whether they are the former or latter, mais oui), I roll my eyes for many reasons, including the fact that racists and other assholes just see curry. Brown. Apu. Outsourcing. Perhaps now, Jay Sean.
They sure as hell don’t assume that I’m a Christian or know where Kerala is– to most of the people with whom I interact, I’m Brown, most probably Hindu, and possibly on my way to an Arranged Marriage which I can then write about in poor chick-lit form, via a book with any combination of henna, mangoes, sari pallus and whatever else, flanked by an ersatz Indic font on the cover. Yay for predictable fiction! /aside
So why DID I write this post? Because.
a) Apparently everyone/everything really IS connected to someone Brown these days (!)
b) Haskell was so sure that the man ushering Abdulmutallab was Indian that he said as much a few times during the interview which I overheard, and NOT ONCE was he asked about this detail…not even via a tentative, “Well, you think the man was Indian, correct?”
c) Almost every article I’ve read since, including a post on ATC’s own blog omits this potent adjective. See for yourself:
As we reported earlier, Haskell (a Michigan lawyer) has been telling investigators and the news media about a conversation he says he heard before passengers boarded Northwest flight 253 to Detroit on Christmas Day.
According to Haskell, Abdulmutallab and an older, well-dressed man approached an airline employee. The older man said Abdulmutallab was Sudanese, had no passport, but needed to get on the flight. The airline employee directed them to a manager and the men went down a hallway. Haskell says he never saw the older man again, and didn’t see Abdulmutallab until the incident aboard the flight as it approached Detroit — when the Nigerian (the suspect is not Sudanese) allegedly tried to ignite some typeof explosive. [npr]
Interesting, right?
I haven’t found anything else which mentions the “Indian” mystery man who helped put an evil criminal on Flight 253, but whatever his ethnic origin, if he was aware of what he was participating in then I wish him a similarly painful, scorched-balls-sort of fate, and I fervently hope that he, too, fails at harming innocent people.
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Because I am in the middle of moving during a holiday week, I hope you will take extra pains to be civil to each other in the comment thread below. I do not have internet access in my new home (yet) and even if I did, I do not have the time to wade through comment-drama. I want to thank you in advance for your sure-to-be thoughtful words; I hope I am not given a reason (or fifty) to regret posting this. 🙂
Maya, Please stop with the McVeigh thing. It has been discussed several times before. A random anarchist is very different from organised ideological warfare aimed at global religious domination. To equate the two is sheer hypocrisy. It is a very tattered fig leaf. As an Indian, being hatefully called a ‘Paki’ is a not a very uncommon occurrence. We share in the popularity of our cousins worldwide much against our will. After 7/7 and many other similar plots, traveling has become such a pleasure for brown people. There have been NO terrorist plots hatched in India against western targets. Popularity ratings of the US remain very high in India, compared to, say, Pakistan. In this changed geo-political climate, western nations need to take a more nuanced view of ‘brown’ countries and people, and educate their citizens likewise. This is analogous to a white lout pissing on the freedom monument in Riga, and being automatically labeled an American, even though statistically and culturally, he is most likely a Brit.
I’ll take a look to the
“This is not a time to start getting abstract about the possibility of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad being a suspect in the attempted bombing. What would the motive be, the goal?”
I’m sorry, I forgot there is not religion but Hinduism in India.
Adding: Obviously since the attempted suicide bomber is a muslem, then it is likely that person could also be from same group helping him. This person could be Indian. It is not so automatic that Indian man will be Hindu. Also he could be Indian man living in Africa or from so many other places. Or maybe he could be Pakistani or Middle Eastern or who knows what.
I am just saying it is silly to attack these eyewitnesses for saying it was an “Indian”. Why is it assumed everyone have malice in their words? They are just describing the scene they saw to the best of their abilities. If you saw this scene, as they did, what would you say? “I saw a brown man with black straight hair who was well dressed and could be from India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, Jordan, West Bank, Syria, Yemen, or [more and more list].” It is easier to describe person with quick description. In this case, the person looked typically Indian to them. How many times in your life will you say “I saw this Indian aunty in the airport with a sweet little baby” or something like that. Will someone start questioning you “How do you know she is Indian. Maybe she could be Pakistani, or Sri Lankan or Nepali??? Did you know for sure Aunty is Indian?” No, you will say “how sweet”. That will be the end of the conversation.
You are only upset because this “Indian” is making you feel bad. But not all Indians are good people. Some are criminals, gangstars, paedeophile, or terrorists. Maybe he was Indian, maybe not. But why be so angry for this only?
euro wrote:
Perhaps we’ll grant you license to abuse the tongue when that doesn’t have any consequences. At other times, such as here, stick to a simple rule: unless you’ve checked someone’s passport and know he’s Indian, don’t use the term.
The question is not whether the term ‘South Asian’ is more appropriate – that term certainly has its uses, but not in the context of describing someone’s appearance.
When describing someone’s appearance, use unambiguous terms of description – brown skinned, straight hair, six feet tall, whatever. Don’t use shorthand that can be misunderstood, or be misleading if not be altogether wrong.
This is so elementary that I spell it out only because, clearly, you’re neither a master of the language nor of logic.
See here
where it is discussed how not felling left out in our youth creates how we view things in our adulthood.
Anyway, what I find amusing is how we accept and tolerate racist and/or prejudiced comments from our Desi relatives regarding non-Desis, or even Desis from other regions, religions and castes, but when someone non-Desi so much as generalizes a “South Asian” — it’s considered no-holds-barred assholery.
Someone explain?
Should read:
where it is discussed how feeling left out in our youth creates how we view things in our adulthood.
OR
where it is discussed how not feeling accepted in our youth creates how we view things in our adulthood.
“When describing someone’s appearance, use unambiguous terms of description – brown skinned, straight hair, six feet tall, whatever. Don’t use shorthand that can be misunderstood, or be misleading if not be altogether wrong.”
This pure example of over “P.C.” I bet many of you same people boast you can tell what is natal place of someone by their looks or some other such thing. Maybe you look at a picture and guess “This is Ethiopian, not Kenyan” or some other thing. So these people are guessing he is Indian. Eye-witness is guess. It is just observations. When I am in airport I look at people and automatically my mind will make ideas as to who they are– “this looks like dada-dadi coming to U.S. to visit son” “that looks like Japanese tourists who are headed home” “This little girl is looking sooo much like my best friend when she was that age– is she from my place?” This is a natural way for the brain to work, what is so wrong of that? It is not like now they will go out and arrest all Indians because of this eye witness– no they will look for this man who matches description they saw from this situation. Maybe eyewitness account will be wrong anyways, but they observed this and came forward with their best idea– shouldn’t we be happy they have come forward to share this information, rather then scream at them for their description. If these eyewitness people were Indians saying they say a “French man” doing this thing, or saying “a Nepali” would you also be up in arms? This is my question to you. Please think about it. Please think– are you feeling upset because this bad man who might be Indian will make you feel bad (to be connected to this man by country or ethnic group)? Would you really be saying differently in the same situation?
It is funny how so many here are getting their panties in a twist just because witnesses (more than one) in this case described someone as “indian”. Just because there are some ignoramuses in America who think Obama or the punjabi guy at the gas station is an arab, doesn’t change the fact that there is such a thing as an “indian color, phenotype, accent and behavior” which anyone with a clue can use to correctly identify persons from the Indian Subcontinent. These witnesses are all well traveled and can be expected to recognize the race of the individuals in question correctly.
NPR addressed this issue on today’s (December 29) “All Things Considered” during the letters segment. Robert Siegel read a thoughtful letter (from a South Asian man) decrying this sort of racial profiling:
http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=122018484&m=122018473
Exactly. Hence my point above (comment number 1) regarding the head shake thingy.
OK, that is so ridiculous that it’s self-deconstructing. Indian means so much more than just the for diplomatic and tax purposes nationality of the 60-year old Republic of India (not that the latter in unimportant!). Nobody is going to follow your silly prescriptive grammar other than you and maybe a few score weird friends. Honestly, I’m not even sure what weird ideological box to put you in–maybe Absurditarian?
My fellow commentors seem to be missing the OBVIOUS:
Being an attorney and all, I would assume that this guy Haskelll would know more than anyone else the liability incurred while assigning a NATIONALITY to the supposed terrorists, not once but twice .
He seems to be absolutely sure that the guy who supposedly assisted the terrorist and then again got picked up with a bomb (wow, so far he seems to be the only one claiming to have seen any such incident). I mean, he does not even have any doubt if the person(s0 are of any other south asian descent. Indian, it has to be.
Well, I have to tell you, this Haskell sure seems to be one totally worldly and sharp-eyed Amru. I know as a desi from India, I sure cannot tell between an Indian, Pakistani, Srilankan, etc etc. Heck I have been mistaken for a Hispanic guy several times by people of hispanic origin themselves. So there.
So, the question then is, does this Haskell guy have some personal hatred for Indians from INDIA? is he simply using this to spread some hatred against Indians? Did his son, newly graduated with a degree in CS, say, ended up moving back with him because the son could not find a job as all the jobs are being taken by Indians? Did some legal outsourcing cut into some of his document review work?
Who knows?
Still, got to love the way a comment, left on a blog page, becomes verified, corroborated NEWS. Looks like this Haskell went home and started working on the story after he realized the possibilities. How can we protect this country effectively when people like him are using serious incidents like this to advance their personal hatred, a hatred he perhaps cannot release in any other manner because of the anti-hate laws?
Good satire, first because there is no liability for falsely assigning a nationality (good on you Anglos for enshrining free speech) and second because “Indian” does not just mean a nationality in the English language (it also encompasses, however crudely–it is being compared at this broad level to, for example, Central Asian or South-East Asian groups) but also an ethnic/cultural grouping.
Dear Maya:
Let’s say Haskell succeeds and getting the word ‘Indian’ synonymous with ‘terrorist helper’, thanks to his many interviews, and Indians come under a nice watchful eye of the Masters (Haskells). Every time you open your samosa, it brings the bomb sniffing hounds out of the woodwork, and you have to justify to armed crowds why the samosa is just a snack..
Let’s say, one of those days, when you (as in you, Maya) are asked for your papers (assuming you are of south asian descent), and pulled off for questioning by the friends of Haskells, just as you are rushing to catch a flight, train, cab, etc etc. Let’s say some cop makes a comment like “Oh she’s from India, apparently. That’s one country which has been under islamo-terrorist attacks for a while, so let’s give her some benefit of doubt and not pre-suppose that she could be a terrorist thoguth she has the same brown skin..”
Then, you know what you should do? You know, right?
You should get all annoyed at the cop and say, “Wait– what? Indians can’t be terrorists? Does that mean white guys can’t be terrorists either. It is only those crazy Muselmans, right?”
and follow it up with “I, maya, forbid you from letting me go! I can be a terrorist too! I demand to be taken to Gitmo!”.
Please do so then, will you? After all, The Haskell types are never wrong, per many commentors here including you.
PS. one advice: please try not to be more jewish than the rabbi.
“second because “Indian” does not just mean a nationality in the English language (it also encompasses, however crudely–it is being compared at this broad level to, for example, Central Asian or South-East Asian groups) but also an ethnic/cultural grouping.”
Euro,
going overboard trying to defend/justify Haskell, aren’t we here? What’s the matter?
Last I checked, ‘Indian’ companies did not quite mean ‘Central Asian or South-East Asian’ etc, the same for people.
PS: same advice: please try not to be more jewish than the rabbi.
Come on people, it’s not that big of a deal. He probably works with, lives near to, or has Indian friends or possible in-laws and is thus clued in on generally tendencies of Indian looks and behaviours. Based on his personal experience with Indians, he took an educated guess.
If he’s wrong, it will come out in the wash.
If he’s right, we all look like fools here debating this.
Oruvan, i think you are giving satire, yes? In my natal country (Belgium–I work in London now) the Hindu immigrants are giving good informations on how to restrict immigrations from the Muslim peoples–the Hindus are not a problem–they are integrating well and we like them.
Reality Check, wrote:
“It is funny how so many here are getting their panties in a twist just because witnesses (more than one) in this case described someone as “indian”. “
euro wrote: “Oruvan, i think you are giving satire, yes? In my natal country (Belgium–I work in London now) the Hindu immigrants are giving good informations on how to restrict immigrations from the Muslim peoples–the Hindus are not a problem–they are integrating well and we like them.”
Is that what you wanted, euro? Nice job trying to pose as a Belgian or whatever, and the suddenly suspect grammar. Let’s end it for today, shall we? Sheesh.
AVATAR wrote:
“Come on people, it’s not that big of a deal. He probably works with, lives near to, or has Indian friends or possible in-laws and is thus clued in on generally tendencies of Indian looks and behaviours. Based on his personal experience with Indians, he took an educated guess.”
PS: same advice: please try not to be more jewish than the rabbi.
Oruvan, who or what are you? Why are you hiding your facts but judging me? I am a European, and I am telling you what I think of the characterization of this guy as “Indian.” It’s “OK” in the English I learned as a second language, and not meant as any more than it would be offensive to call some guy I hear talking German in London a “German” even if he is from Austria or Switzerland (or even in my country of Belgium you have a few native German speakers). You have failed radically to convince me otherwise. Sorry if it offends you that we do make distinctions between Indians we like (most of them), and Indians we are suspicious of (Muslims, especially the British Pakistani type) even if some of them are “OK.”
How did an illogical, over-emotional bloke like you become an attorney? You are lying right?
You keep ranting against the Haskells ignoring the fact that they were not the only ones to mention seeing indian (as in race/ethnicity). You also stupidly assume that all indians are non-muslims, and that only “musselmans” can be terrorists. Heard of the Tamil Tigers, the original suicide bombers?
it is ridiculous. Even if we were to consider Haskells’ story, so far he is the only person, other than his wife, to have even reported anything like this. Maybe he has the singular bad fortune of being next to terrorist ‘Indians’ always?
Every false lead, and more so for deliberate false lead, wastes valuable time and resources required for keeping this country safe. If the Haskell is so concerned, he should have gone to authorities with the story, and giving them the ‘facts’ not his possibly prejudiced opinions, and also not seek his 15 min fame deriding ‘Indians’ on every two-bit newspaper site and TV station. I would believe that the authorities have a better shot at putting together a better picture of this supposed helper than this Haskell guy has.
yes, reality check–tamil tiger people are a big problem in London–not so much in Belgium, luckily.
Sorry to be so scientific and statistical, but we would do much better to check the Muslim boys in their 20’s and 30’s (of whatever race or nationality). To be otherwise is to be anti-progress/European/Science. Sorry to Communists/Islamists.
oops. misplaced sentence fragment, I meant Haskell being an attorney. Btw, reality, no need to get all twisted up for it. Still waiting for your answers to my questions, guess I will never have them.
yeah there are tigers and the like, but they are not from India. also In this scenario, do they have a motive for helping this guy against the uSA? Use some logic dude.
end of discussion. cant really argue with the haskell fanclub here.
Well, I don’t know about USA, but we Euros have little incentive to cooperate with India while India is coddling Islamists (which India is, ind of like Yemen). Look for more restrictions on India-EU flights, not fewer.
euro = rob messing around.
“but we Euros have little incentive to cooperate with India while India is coddling Islamists (which India is, ind of like Yemen). Look for more restrictions on India-EU flights, not fewer.”
India also has a large muslim population, who were quite born in india, and who are also very much loyal Indians. If having them live in their country of birth is what you consider ‘coddling’, yeah. There are extremists, and INdia is trying, with a fair bit of success, to deal with them. As a race/nation, Indians and India are not exactly used to internment camps and racial profiling etc. India will manage its affairs the way they can, and you can manage your affairs the way you want. if India wants belgium’s advice in this matter, I am sure India will ask for it, with congo providing references.
looks like it, but let’s humor him anyway.
Oruvan, OK, but I don’t endorse any of Belgium’s history in Congo It was bad and wrong. Ask any Muslim about their engagement in India–they will tell you it’s OK b/c they were dealing with primitive idol-worshipers. So the difference between a Euro and a Muslim is huge, on the intellectual side. Euros are open to liberal peoples-Hindus/Sikhs are OK–hell, so are reasonable Muslims. Look at EU immigration figures for 2009–we are learning our lessons.
interesting assertion. have you, rob?
what is your opinion about reparations for the harms caused to african american slaves even more recently than the muslim engagement? or is mere lip service an adequate expression of regret?
also what is your take on something more recent, and in a supposedly more civilized society and time than the centuries old grudges you hold – the 2002 gujarat pogrom? what conclusion should i draw about “liberal peoples” based on the unapologetic view several of those peoples hold about that engagement?
and as an aside, how do the brits, the people in your supposed work place, view their engagement in india?
The tamil tiger terrorists, who introduced suicide bombing, are ethnic indians from the Indian subcontinent. You are stupidly obsessing over indian as a nationality and getting all confused. There are people of indian ethnicity all over the world carrying passports from numerous nations.
That’s a fair point about former slaves getting reparations in the “New World”–yeah, why not? I’m not trying to sterilize Euro-historical involvement in Asia. I’m saying we have to be careful of too much immigration by groups that don’t like us–why take them in? I’m with Denmark about limiting marriage–>immigration. If you don’t like us, go back, don’t bring in a spouse. This is getting weird–I was initially just interested in Indian people after watching Bend it Like Beckham–sorry.
FWIW, they ran a letter during today’s show which echoes this post.
rob, you didnt answer a couple of the other questions in my comment. I am curious what opinion I should have of “liberal peoples”.
Besides the tamil tigers of Sri Lanka and the Pakistani terrorists, there were also the khalistani terrorists from India who committed the worst terrorist act in Canada’s history. So the indian subcontinent has produced terrorists from the hindu, muslim, sikh and christian communities (the tamil tigers included christians).
What interests me most is the quote “the Indian man said, ‘He is from Sudan, we do this all the time,” Who is/are «WE»? – There are no lawyers working at that part of the airport. – Non travellers (like shop keepers) being there are only allowed after being checked by custom/security and must carry a clearly visible badge. So the Haskells should have noticed if the man was staff/official.
And on the “indian”: Holland has largest community of ppl with roots in the former British Empire on mainland Europe. (that’s why we hosted the 2005 IIFA Awards) So if there has been someone “indian” it might have been a Dutch citizen.
Euro, that bomber was most likely radicalized in BRITAIN http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34628317/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times
This is one of the dumbest things I have seen. You probably don’t even realize how prejudice this sounds. We are real people, a vastly diverse people (go check out the number of communities, languages, customs, religions etc…). We don’t fit your one movie image and don’t agree with everything you say so you are no longer interested in an entire 1 billion people? Good thing I don’t base my interest or appreciation of the good things in Europe based on people like you.
Euro as for your ignorance of terrorism in India, go look at this site and learn how much and for how long India has been the target of terrorism and been fighting it (far more than any European country): South Asia Terrorism Portal http://www.satp.org
Very few if any Europeans cared while it was just happening in places like India. Well some of those same terrorist groups are now targeting Europe.
One thing, besides Haskell assuming that the brown person was “Indian,” he doesn’t know the motivation of this man who helped him board. Abdulmutallab’s family is very wealthy and well educated. It could just as well be someone getting a rich kid on a plane. Class obnoxiousness more than terrorist network.
As of now you have 85-86 reasons to regret posting this. You posted this because you just love attention. The person who helped could very well be Indian, oh wait, he could also be from your home state.
By the way, in terms of the other post about the influential desi women where almost all happened to be Indian (and others were whining about at Taz), here is what one Indian has shown after reaching the top. (7% dip for pepsi vs 28% gain for coke). Oh No, Pepsi shares are losing because of Indian and one billion Yindians.. oh noo..
“that’s one country which has been under islamo-terrorist attacks for a while, so let’s give her some benefit of doubt and not pre-suppose that she could be a terrorist thoguth she has the same brown skin..”
This would be a highly elevated sentiment, and one that should really should be widely expressed. Alas, it is not! The average( parochial, insular) American still has difficulty identifying India as a country that has suffered the most Islamist terrorism of any democracy on earth. It’s only among a select, or correct me if I’m wrong, group of intellectuals and journalists where this fact is recognized.
Why are some posters getting down on this “Euro” guy? He’s nice, he’s pro Hindu and pro Indian, sympathetic to India’s experience with terror, sees the difference between Indians and Pakistanis, and is not being racist toward Indians. So what if he’s a little inaccurate about the ethnic composition of India. His India-and Indian-friendly remarks are to be appreciated and encouraged, not denigrated.
I said this thing yesterday, but I will repeat once more since I was asked this question:
I said I don’t think that just because the Haskills reported this one man as Indian that the whole world will start fingering Indians across the globe. From things I have heard, there was much backlash against Sikhs and Indians in general after 9-11 because some of these bigoted people in the U.S. wanted to be bigoted against Arabs but did not know the difference– they saw turban and though “Muselman” and all that.
My point is that these duffers will be duffers and find a reason to make certain peoples lives miserable, no? If someone wants to fine excuse to shoot down Sikhs they will do.
But you would think in the wake of this attempted bombing, whether people are so much focused on this possible “Indian” in airport, or maybe more focused on NIgerians? I mean, who commited this act, well-dressed possible Indian-man, or Nigerian young man? We all know the answer to this question. Nigerian young man. This “Indian” man is purely an eye-witness observation. No one even knows if he was involved. Maybe he was airport employee trying to help Nigerian man who he thought was Sudanese actually. Maybe he was part of the terrorist plot. We do not know and we will not know. But I bet if I go to my campus and ask my colleagues who are not Indians about this attack, they will say “It was a Nigeran” not “You are terrorist, and one of your people was helping him in the airport! Stay away from me!”. (Let us also hope they will not say this to Nigerians. no?)
Yes, I understand people are feeling afraid because of possible backlash, but should that mean this Haskill person should change their observations to make us feel better? I am sure all the Nigerian people are feeling much more scared now about this than Indians. They are the ones who had young man trying to blow up his trousers. “Indian” man is pure speculation at this point, and I don’t see anyone discussing it but Indians!
i guess from your comment that other kinds of -ists are just a-ok by you.
euro is actually an indian pretending to be a belgian.
Euro stated: ‘In my natal country (Belgium–I work in London now) the Hindu immigrants are giving good informations on how to restrict immigrations from the Muslim peoples’
Euro: You might want to ask those ‘Hindu immigrants’ about their views on whether Hitler was a strong leader and good for his country.
actually indian american. usual handle is rob.
Indians should trust their instincts when people like “Euro” appear. The guy is pro-Hindu, and that should at least cause Indians to be sympathetic. There are very few pro-Hindu voices in the media, and among non-Indians( I’m assuming he’s non-Indian) . Usually Indians and Hindus are subjected to pompous, condescending, arrogant stuff from the likes of Martha Nussbaum, Paul Brass and the NY Times editorial board. When someone departs from this pernicious behaviour, Indians should applaud them.