It seems that Burger King decided that Carl’s Jr had a good thing going using (Padma) Lakshmi to advertise hamburgers, so they ran an ad in Spain using Padma Lakshmi to advertise … Ham Burgers with the tag line “The Snack is Sacred.”
I don’t know about you, but even as a non-Hindu I found this pretty offensive. Lakshmi is the Goddess of wealth and learning, and they’re using her image in an ignorant way to promote a pretty cheap foodstuff. I mean, if you’re going to be offensive and use a Hindu Goddess to sell a meat product, why not go all the way and get your forbidden foodstuffs right? Hindus are most offended by beef and Muslims are most offended by pork. It’s like they couldn’t even be bothered to tell their non-Christian religions apart, even though Spain was ruled by Muslims for hundreds of years.
Of course, when news got out, a holy ruckus was raised, and BK issued a rare apology:
“We are apologising because it wasn’t our intent to offend anyone,” said spokeswoman Denise T Wilson. “Burger King Corporation values and respects all of its guests as well as the communities we serve. This in-store advertisement was running to support only local promotion for three restaurants in Spain and was not intended to offend anyone. “Out of respect for the Hindu community, the limited-time advertisement has been removed from the restaurants,” she added. [link]
At BK, we offend you our way.
So, what I was wondering was: if the burger is really that awesome, wouldn’t Lakshmi be holding it in one of her 23 hands, instead of sitting on it?
Umm… where’s yours? Your vehemence didn’t seem the need to provide any either. There is a lot of scholarship on the influence of Buddhism on the Gita.
Trying to ascribe ownership of these philosophical concepts is a pretty futile exercise. Best to just ascribe them to Indic or Dharmic religions and leave it at that. Unless you belonged to one of the formalized institutions vying for royal patronage, it would not have mattered to our forbears so why should it to us. We can proud that the these metaphysical issues did not usually lead to the spilling of blood (though I’m sure there was a lot of kudimi/topknot tugging)
can someone please censure rahul? he’s going after the gita and i thought the consensus of informed opinion here is that going after religious icons is bigotry. at this pace he’s liable to libel muhammed, jesus, and chopra.
The ad is in bad taste but at least whoever views it will get darshan of Sri Laxmi Devi and thus purified. I think the gods planned it this way.
Umm, because you were the one trying to refute, so the burden of proof lies on you. Historically, Gita has been dated to be composed around or before the birth of Sri Buddha (See the references in this post, even if you don’t agree with post, but the references here are valid, including that by Zaehner). Personally, I wouldn’t have any problem if Buddhism had influenced B. Gita, but it is chronologically wrong.
Its always hilarious when people who eat in non-veg restaurants still call themselves “vegetarian”.
Erroneous. Gita between 500-200 BC. Buddhism around 450 BC.
I’m not a Burger King goer myself, but I’m offended that Lakshmi didn’t order fries with that.
Again, where are your references ? You haven’t provided a single one until now, except your word.
You can look at wiki for both Bhagavad Gita and Buddhism, for one. Here’s another.
The references in Wiki actually says otherwise. Please read the wiki it carefully (unless you have changed the texts minutes back).
Touchy, touchy. Won’t intrude on your sacred cows further.
Agreed, the birth and life of Siddhartha (Buddha) should answer the chronological question. Born : c. 563 BCE; died: c. 483 BCE (wiki Buddha).
Its Sunday, time to go to temple.
Must’ve been you that changed the wiki then? 🙂 And, given that the Gita is dated to be between 500-200 BC, chronology definitely is in the right direction.
All the major schools of South Asian philosophical thought overlap and influence each other.
Bas.
End of story.
Unconvincing.
The date suggested, 500 BC or later, is only an estimate. It could well have been 540BC, around the time that Buddha was starting to seek enlightenment. In which case, perhaps, Buddha could well have been a co-discoverer, as often happens in modern science. Perhaps the Gita was itself the original and Buddha was the plagiarist.
Large is relative; Spain actually has a huge immigrant community of which Indians (which is what we are talking about, not ‘South Asians’ per se) are a very small proportion. Compared to other European countries, the number of NRIs is tiny, Portgual next door has more than 100,000 people of Indian origin for example.
What is stupid actually is to equate Europe with the EU; they are two very different things; the British would definitely consider themselves to be more European than American or anything else; and the drift towards Europe is only a matter of time. Also depends on what you mean by a “non-white PM” the UK has already had a Jewish PM in the same period you talk about. It is easy to cherry pick media examples selectively and try to present them as represenative; one could just as easily do the reverse as many Europeans do and see the US as shot through with endemic racism and a largely racist police force, criminal justice system and massive racial disparities on host of indicators, especially for African-Americans. I don’t think that is any more accurate than the examples you cite.
At the end of the day it comes down to personal experience; I have lived in 3 different European countries, Spain not being one of them so I can’t comment about that, and the experience has been varied from the good to the bad depending on which country is taken. Of course other people would have had different experiences but from my limited experience of the US, I am sceptical to the idea that somehow the US is any better than the UK on race matters. The largest difference is that the US being an immigrant society and having a much larger non-White population is structured differently in a way which gives minorities greater power due to their numbers and concentration.
The fact that the US is an immigrant society is what makes it different. And it is a big difference. As someone said upthread, the Continent is far less accepting of diversity than Alabama.
Yes, that is how I think they see themselves. However, I see them as more American than European. It’s the common Anglo-saxon culture they share. When I feel like I’ve had enough of Europe I go to the UK, which is the closest thing to America that I can find. I don’t know all that much about the UK and their complicated race relations but the vibe I get is that they are far more open and a lot like America.
that is debatable imo, parts of the US still seem to suffer from the legacy of lynching and other forms of institutionalised violence even after the Civil Rights era. Part of the problem is that most of Europe is less diverse than the US, but it isn’t as stratified. Diverse societies which are ‘accepting’ can be very stratified by race, Brazil is a good example.
No, I think this is quite wrong. There is a common language and strong relationship but English culture is very different from American culture; there isn’t a class system in the US for a start, while the one in England still very much exists and this shapes key aspects like educational attainment and career paths; the US has much more social mobility. Race relations are a little better but not that much different from other major European countries; the main difference was that Britain had a large multi-racial Empire and the Commonwealth linkage gives it a relationship with former colonies and the people from there that doesn’t exist to the same degree in Europe. There are of course still large problems; I beleive the situation has changed a lot over the last 20 years.
for me a lot depends on the relative numbers involved; the sheer size of the minorities in the US puts them in a stronger position in laying a claim to the public space and consciousness; it isn’t down to anything intrinsically accepting about American culture per se (you only need to look at recent American history to see how minorities were treated). In Europe many are much smaller and so don’t exert the same influence, populations are also more static.
But I think a lot comes down to personal experience in the end, I am always surprised since I haven’t faced the kind of problems that some people clearly have; but as I said, I think this depends on which country and which region one is talking about. Generalisations about “Europe” are unhelpful imo.
world values survey.
Disraeli was a Christian from a Jewish background. Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are considered white by most everyone except believers in nazi/”Christian Identity” racial theory. Jewish people in British colonies lived in white cantonments and could enter “white only” establishments. The US almost elected Goldwater, another Christian from a Jewish background. Call me when a European country elects someone descended from someone whose ancestors hail from a colony. Just because the Dutch are very enthusiastic about interracial live sex shows doesn’t mean that they will have a Surinamese head of state or even CEO of Philips anytime soon.
Yes. People jumped to pick up a new religion that promised the same as the old religion 🙂
Sure there is, have you tried to enter a country club?
The US has a large landmass so it is possible to go some place else and try your luck when you run into the hierarchy in your ‘burg. Besides the land is so vast you never get to see the fatcats on your way to work or while you are out shopping. The rich in the US inhabit a separate universe with private everything, beaches, ski resorts, islands, clubs, schools etc.
However, we should also be offended That many Indian vegetarians own a Subways franchise or even a liquid store even though TN and Gujarat are dry.
UK is FAR more racist than is USA. Even when compared Against our southern states.
Oh yeah, most of my Hindu friends eat beef, and I don’t understand why they would be offended.
Regarding meat eating: Vedic Hindus ate beef but they stopped after Buddhas message of benevolence spread After 500 BC. This is ironic because Buddhas last meal was boar!
Shouldn’t BK have called it the Omburger?
??? Bad example. Quite often, subways provide a healthy veg option that is not easy to find otherwise. Subway certainly made my life easier in the midwest when the cafeteria often did not have any veg meal options other than pizza.
is the new black, it seems. a fitting response to those who got their dhotis in knots about this.
This thread completely encapsulates exactly how much I have come to loathe the vast majority of the Mutiny commenting culture. This is now the exact opposite of a safe space for someone like me to have a desi-diaspora identity, and is completely devoid of any new friend making opportunities. I love how besides Razib not a single other person on this thread has the guts to comment with their true name connecting to a named web page. I officially declare an end to any attempt of mine to try and get the “old” Mutiny out of the current one. Much respect to the Mutineers themselves, who struggle on despite this crowd—I could not do it. Ennis, your endurance at posting in particular amazes me. Razib, amigo, good to see you trying. I give up. Someone let me know when they rework this thing as a Google Wave and I can automatically only read the comments of the reasonable people.
Wow, what a brutal diss of ennis and his participation in the mutiny!!!
At least in the South, it is Saraswati who is the goddess of learning, and Lakshmi is our lady of wealth. But, in any case, even as a non-classist, I found this statement pretty offensive. Can rich people not shop at Walmart?
argh. That was not a diss at Ennis at all. He knows quite well that I don’t think that. Most of the friends I have made here are anonymous. But that’s because they—like Ennis–are capable of have respectful, kind, thoughtful adult conversations even when anonymity allows them not to. Most people, however, seem not to be so capable. I was actually singularly saluting him, because unlike most of the other Mutineers, he could walk away, even hand the mask to someone else. But he struggles on despite the incredibly unencouraging comment threads.
Anyway, I cam back specifically to tell Ennis not to take my ire personally. I couldn’t slep and somewhat randomly fired up the Mutiny thinking it might amuse me and to be so completely disappointed me set off wrath, but the post, of course, was fine.
Just rubbish advert. Bean burgers are well good though 😉
Manju, I hope you can excuse my impertinence. It is just that we scientologists have been off-balance ever since the public tarring and feathering of our True Leader, Tom Cruise. Hath not a scientologist feelings? Hath not a scientologist maniacal stares, insanely high heels, and Stepford wives? If he jumps on couches, does he not bounce? Talk about psychiatry, does he not laugh? The villainy you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.
I don’t know abotu the dates of the Gita and the founding of Buddhism, but doctrines of Buddhism clearly have more resemblance to the Upanishads that are more philosophical and abstract in nature (the ones that cover atman = brahman and whatnot) than the Gita does, which takes these ideas and personalises them in the form of Krishna (and then tells you that you will be overwhelmed by his magnificence). This is based, however, on theo rder in which the materials were presented to me, not the dates.
But if you focus on the ideas, it’s quite clear that, regardless of the attempt to make the Gita the single Holy Writ of Hinduism, there is a lot of material out there, including, but not limited to Buddhist doctrine, which is much more helpful for some of us in exploring itneresting ideas. Not that the Gita doesn’t have interesting ideas in it (like that not all people are the same or the idea of duty vs. personal feeligns) – but it could be argued that it’s a move away from a more philosophical and abstract version of these ideas towards a more personalised and anthropomorphic-god version of these.
But then, we’re not allowed to talk abotu all that, right? 🙂
You’re allowed to talk about whatever you like, Dr. A. But you must allow us believers that privilege too. What I like about religion is that it starts with the premise that humans don’t have enough control over their lives to be cocky. Us believers feel that many of those writing in this blog–yourself, Abhi, Rahul, to name a few—have not had setbacks of the sort that strip you of self-confidence. So when you write about religion, it is disrespectful.
Let me ask this: Why did you write “you will be overwhelmed by his magnificence”? Why did you want to be disrepectful to Krishna? Because you associate Krishna with the RSS? The windmill you wanted to tilt at was the RSS, was it not? And why are you much more respectful to Buddha? Because Ambedkar preferred him? Because you want to prop him up as the sole source of good Indian thought?
Or consider these lines: “the ones that cover atman = brahman and whatnot)” and “more personalised and anthropomorphic-god version of these.” Now, Rajaji has spoken about this very thing as a prologue to M.S. Subalakshmi’s Bhaja Govindam as two paths, the jnana path and the bhakti path. According to Rajaji, Adi Sankara felt that both paths are equal. So it seems that you prefer the jnana path over the bhakti path. How do you fell now, to find yourself in agreement with two thinkers whom right-wingers are respectful to? Do you feel bad that you have lost two windmills to tilt at?
Does the believers’ club internationale have full access to the trajectory of my ostensibly charmed existence?
By this logic, so is writing about those personal injury lawyers who infest the airwaves past midnight.
What does this have to do with getting offended about meat stuck between the buns Lakshmi is sitting on?
Bah! That’s what they teach you in Gradient 4. But pony up the bucks for Gradient 5 and you learn he’s actually below Travolta; though rumor has it Gradient 6 teaches they are connected as one, even though Travolta is on top. Anyway, as you know from the Gradient 1 curriculum, Dianetics was the first book ever written and then Buddha and Vyasa just googled and cribbed the whole thing off wiki. So that settles that.
And don’t any of youse dare doubt this is how it all went down. This is a safe space, after all.
Is Will Smith a practitioner of the oral tradition in this gradient?
he was at one time…but he blew it.
hai ram, what will become of me?!
a comment on the chronology of buddhism and bhagavad gita.
Abu Ibrahim # 34 – You are right that the Kaaba is a large room/Mosque, however, there is a stone [likely a piece of meteroite, which 7th century Arabs deemed divine; something that came from heaven, thrown down by adam and eve] attached to a Kaaba wall, which Muslims revere and kiss when they circle the Kaaba seven time during the Hajj pilgrimage. [The seven times is interesting since Hindus also circle the holy fire seven times when getting married]
Yes, big surprise, ad men are completely bankrupt sociopaths. also though, religious restrictions on food-type consumptions is weaksauuuce.
93 · Zainab on July 13, 2009 01:44 PM · Abu Ibrahim # 34 – You are right that the Kaaba is a large room/Mosque, however, there is a stone [likely a piece of meteroite, which 7th century Arabs deemed divine; something that came from heaven, thrown down by adam and eve] attached to a Kaaba wall, which Muslims revere and kiss when they circle the Kaaba seven time during the Hajj pilgrimage. [The seven times is interesting since Hindus also circle the holy fire seven times when getting married]
Zainab, Hindus also baptise people in rivers, and they feel that this makes one sin-free. This is identical to what the Christians do. Hindus, like Muslims, circle something of significance x number of times like the Muslims. Prior to Buddhism/Jainism, Hindus were eating beef, but they copied the Buddhist/Jain’s compassion. I personally think that the Hindus copied these practices that you refer to.
Well, that’s an extremely idiosyncratic position, especially in light of the Kaaba’s originally having been a Hindu temple.
Rob – You are probably right. Due the fact that Hindu practices preceded Islam by several centuries, I assumed the seven circumambulations during Hajj were borrowed from Hinduism by Islam Btw, when Hindus bathe in the river Ganges, are they being baptized?
Zainab, Don’t count on my knowledge, but no, I don’t think it’s a similar practice–my understanding is that Christian baptism is a sort of initiation into the religion, not true of the (main) strands of Hinduism, as far as I know.
i like the kaaba trollery of rob.
muslims hindus