150 Days for a Hate Crime

The Mutiny has been following closely the case of the Satendar Singh’s murder. He is the 26 year old Fijian national who died after he was fatally injured in a public park in Sacramento last summer. Singh was attacked by two men who made racial and homophobic slurs before assaulting him.

Though Andrey Vusik had fled the country, there has been an ongoing trial against his accomplice Aleksander Shevchenko. The trial has been going on this past June. The big debate amongst the jury? Was this or wasn’t it a hate crime.

After more than four days of tense deliberations, the jury of seven women and five men could not agree on whether the defendant was involved in the confrontation because he believed Singh was gay. The panel emerged before noon and told Judge Gary S. Mullen that they were “irrevocably deadlocked” on the hate- crime allegation that Aleksandr Shevchenko, 22, faced for his role in last year’s fight. The Sacramento man was found guilty on two misdemeanor counts: disturbing the peace and simple assault for throwing a bottle. [SacBee]

Reading Anna’s post on the case from last summer, it’s hard to imagine this case could be considered anything BUT a hate crime. They returned to court July 11th.

A 22-year-old Sacramento man has been sentenced to 150 days in jail for his role in the death of a Fijian immigrant...Shevchenko was convicted in June of disturbing the peace and simple assault for throwing a bottle during a confrontation last summer between two groups at Lake Natoma, about 15 miles east of Sacramento.[GLT]

150 days for killing a man, huh? Seems like we haven’t come that far since the Vincent Chin case. Words escape me.

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About Taz

Taz is an activist, organizer and writer based in California. She is the founder of South Asian American Voting Youth (SAAVY), curates MutinousMindState.tumblr.com and blogs at TazzyStar.blogspot.com. Follow her at twitter.com/tazzystar

93 thoughts on “150 Days for a Hate Crime

  1. Question. Do we know what happened to Vusik? Did anything come out at the trial? I wouldn’t necessarily rail against this sentence if he wasn’t the guy who threw the punch that led to Singh’s death, though I agree 150 days sure seems paltry. TANJ.

  2. Its a pity that hate crimes against people (other than blacks) never make NEWS in this country. Katie holmes new hairdo is making headlines at CNN but this story never will……..

  3. The problem is that the notion of a “hate crime” itself is repulsive. What makes a murder more grissly and worthy of more punishment because “hate” towards a race or sexual identity is involved?

    A crime is a crime is a crime.

  4. OK — let’s pre-empt this “crime is a crime” crap (see mallu at #3). The justice system treats all sorts of crimes differently — pre-medidated murder is different from manslaughter. Intent matters.

    Mallu, and others, may think that race-hate is not an appropriate “intent” to consider (and are free to try to convince lawmakers of that), but you can’t argue that intent isn’t considered in trials all the time.

  5. 4 · Mallu-watcher said

    OK — let’s pre-empt this “crime is a crime” crap (see mallu at #3). The justice system treats all sorts of crimes differently — pre-medidated murder is different from manslaughter. Intent matters. Mallu, and others, may think that race-hate is not an appropriate “intent” to consider (and are free to try to convince lawmakers of that), but you can’t argue that intent isn’t considered in trials all the time.

    You are confusing “intent” with “motive”. Intent pertains to whether a person killed another person accidentally, out of rage, negligence or premeditation. Motive pertains to what incentives and rationales the murderer had in killing someone.

    Intent has always been considered but its only recently that people have been given extra punishments for motives.

    I agree with #3, a “crime is a crime”. The intent should matter but the motive should not. Singling out particular motives veers towards criminalizing thoughts. I don’t see why those that commit hate crimes deserve more punishment than those that do honor killings, crimes for money, crimes to inspire terror, crimes done out sadism, etc.

  6. Are there South Asian associations helping these victims.

    In the past five days, three Indian store clerks have been killed around the U.S. And in two of the cases, it is definitely Black hatred of Asian immigrants. One of the people interviewed said of the victim that he had an attitude, justifying, in many ways, the brutal crime. Watch the video clips for a better sense of the hate involved.

    http://www.sajaforum.org/2008/08/crime-indian-ca.html?cid=125699176#comment-125699176

    Here are the cases: CRIME: Inder Jit Jassal, cashier killed inside a Phoenix 7-Eleven Store

    Authorities in Phoenix have arrested a man who walked into a 7-Eleven store with his two young sons, holding one in his arm, and shot the clerk in front of his kids. Although the police has not released the clerk’s name, the Arizona Republic says that a nephew of the victim named the clerk as 62-year-old Inder Jit Jassal.

    What happened in the ensuing moments was a brief conversation between the man and the store clerk that ended with the man pulling out a gun and, in front of the kids, fatally shooting the clerk, authorities said.
    
    Seven hours after the slaying, acting on a call from a citizen who saw a TV news report, police took Jermaine Canada into custody as he walked along the area of 26th Avenue and Camelback Road. Police say Canada was wearing the same bright orange pair of shorts the gunman was seen wearing in the video.
    
    "He went in, had a brief conversation, and shot the clerk," said Phoenix Detective Stacie Derge, a department spokeswoman. "Based on the video, it did not appear to be an argument."
    

    And in Florida: http://www.mysuncoast.com/Global/story.asp?S=8764840&nav=menu577_2_1

    and in Georgia http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=8763575&nav=menu37_3


    A hate crime is a specifically designated crime in which someone is targeted for his race, religion, or sexual preference.

  7. 150 days for killing a man is outrageously lenient. This guy ought to have received at least 30-40 years.

  8. “150 days for killing a man, huh?”

    With respect, that’s not what this fellow, Aleksander Shevchenko, did. It does not honor the memory of the victim to have a “hang every man involved” attitude. If Shevchenko did not deliver the fatal blow, then he simply cannot be charged with murder.

  9. SO, this is the frigging country that all of us yearn to get in so much, beg to be considered second or third class citizens of, and then again plead to be citizens of.

    I had heard of the Vincent Chin case before, but was under the impression that the perps got punished properly after the initial set of trials. It is eyeopening to know that they were eventually cleared of all charges. I have to tell you, blacks or whites, these people know how to clear their own and make it look like justice.

    Yeah, I found some black kids trying to sneak into my garage for whatever they can steal – this in a majority desi community. School is out and these kids (probably 7-8 graders) were out getting some vocational training I guess. I would assume that the white kids would be out in packs bullying some desi kids.

  10. If Shevchenko did not deliver the fatal blow, then he simply cannot be charged with murder

    I am curious why he was not charged with accomplice to murder with malice (which could have had him spending the rest of his life in jail)

  11. 11 · DizzyDesi said

    I am curious why he was not charged with accomplice to murder with malice (which could have had him spending the rest of his life in jail)

    Probably because there is no such charge as “accomplice to murder with malice” in CA?

  12. 10 · another mallu said

    Yeah, I found some black kids trying to sneak into my garage for whatever they can steal – this in a majority desi community. School is out and these kids (probably 7-8 graders) were out getting some vocational training I guess. I would assume that the white kids would be out in packs bullying some desi kids.

    Besides being trollerific, what does this even mean?

  13. Atlanta Desi dad found guilty of getting his black daughter-in-law killed

    That is one nasty desi family. They did not even keep the 6 month old half-desi daughter of this innocent woman the father-in-law killed so cold bloodedly.

  14. As with the Vincent Chin case, I certainly hope the family of the departed takes up civil action and sues those involved down to their last pennies.

  15. 10 · another mallu said

    SO, this is the frigging country that all of us yearn to get in so much, beg to be considered second or third class citizens of, and then again plead to be citizens of.

    I think the central problem is the lack of cohesiveness of South Asian or Asian communities. After the Vincent Chen case there were concerted efforts to create a lobbying force, but compared with Black, Hispanic, or White groups, we are basically without any support. To each his own is basically it.

    Sadly it is the most disenfranchised that get abused–the people who have to live in inner cities. Many have come here illegally, or if they are of legal status, have little to none understanding of their rights. It is really sad to see.

    Many second or third generation desis I have met (note my caveat–I am not trying to generalize) are so busy rejecting their ethnic heritage and fitting in with mainstream culture that even though they are some of the most successful and highest paid strata of American society, they refuse to even acknowledge the horrendous conditions in which their less fortunate desis. I understand the urge to blend in, but it doesn’t lead to any kind of community.

    Also, the story about the Indian man who hired to kill his daughter-in-law got huge publicity, but the killings of store clerks or the abuses in the inner cities of immigrants are just not noticed.

    Anyway, Taz, thank you for posting this. Are their groups or organizations we can petition to take this case–and others like these taking place around the nation?

  16. Its a pity that hate crimes against people (other than blacks) never make NEWS in this country. Katie holmes new hairdo is making headlines at CNN but this story never will……..
    Atlanta Desi dad found guilty of getting his black daughter-in-law killed

    Really? We’re going to use this as an opportunity to drive a wedge between Black people and South Asian people? When Black people and South Asian people (especially noncitizens) are both bearing the brunt of a really f@#ked up criminal justice system?

  17. 7 · Tina said

    Are there South Asian associations helping these victims. In the past five days, three Indian store clerks have been killed around the U.S. And in two of the cases, it is definitely Black hatred of Asian immigrants. One of the people interviewed said of the victim that he had an attitude, justifying, in many ways, the brutal crime. Watch the video clips for a better sense of the hate involved. http://www.sajaforum.org/2008/08/crime-indian-ca.html?cid=125699176#comment-125699176 Here are the cases: CRIME: Inder Jit Jassal, cashier killed inside a Phoenix 7-Eleven Store Authorities in Phoenix have arrested a man who walked into a 7-Eleven store with his two young sons, holding one in his arm, and shot the clerk in front of his kids. Although the police has not released the clerk’s name, the Arizona Republic says that a nephew of the victim named the clerk as 62-year-old Inder Jit Jassal. What happened in the ensuing moments was a brief conversation between the man and the store clerk that ended with the man pulling out a gun and, in front of the kids, fatally shooting the clerk, authorities said. Seven hours after the slaying, acting on a call from a citizen who saw a TV news report, police took Jermaine Canada into custody as he walked along the area of 26th Avenue and Camelback Road. Police say Canada was wearing the same bright orange pair of shorts the gunman was seen wearing in the video. “He went in, had a brief conversation, and shot the clerk,” said Phoenix Detective Stacie Derge, a department spokeswoman. “Based on the video, it did not appear to be an argument.” And in Florida: http://www.mysuncoast.com/Global/story.asp?S=8764840&nav=menu577_2_1 and in Georgia http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=8763575&nav=menu37_3 — A hate crime is a specifically designated crime in which someone is targeted for his race, religion, or sexual preference.

    Black hatred of Desi’s generalize much hell a criminal will kill anybody to get what they want. I could be a ass and say that the girl murdered in Atlanta was a case of Desi hatred against blacks but that would be generalizing.

  18. 17 · Dr AmNonymous said

    Really? We’re going to use this as an opportunity to drive a wedge between Black people and South Asian people? When Black people and South Asian people (especially noncitizens) are both bearing the brunt of a really f@#ked up criminal justice system?

    True, but in terms of national hate-crime reportage it’s probably not too far from the set of priorities that a revenue-minded editor/producer might be forced to follow in the hopes of staying in business (local coverage, of course, is a different animal). Things like the Duke lacrosse debacle are flogged mercilessly while a far more sensational story languishes at the local level.

  19. This is not about driving a wedge between anything or anybody. It is about recognizing that black on brown hate crimes are under reported. Ignoring the antipathy felt towards the most vulnerable of our immigrants is not helping matters. When three desis are killed within a few days, and in one case, the victim is blamed for having an attitude (watch the video tape and see what the people interviewed say), we should not be tip toeing around out of political correctness.

  20. If all crimes are equal then I assume Punching a infant in the face should be considered the same thing as punching an adult in the face? “Okay here is your warning for fighting. Next time just walk away from the infant.”

    A guy murders a drug dealer who he thinks is moving in on his turf

    A guy murders a random black person because he is black.

    Which one is more of a threat on society if he is let out of prison for parole? If it is up to me they would never get out, but if I am letting one guy out then it is the drug dealer and not the guy who wants to murder every single person on the planet of a certain race.

    A guy beats up another man over a girl

    A guy beats up a brown person because his brown skin reminds him of 3rd world countries and doesnt want America to turn into one.

    Which one is more likely to be a bigger burdon on society and thus requires more time out of socitey?

  21. Also, the story about the Indian man who hired to kill his daughter-in-law got huge publicity, but the killings of store clerks or the abuses in the inner cities of immigrants are just not noticed.

    Yes, I know. And I’ve already said I disagreed with how one news account put it – saying that that horrible murderer came from a caste conscious society. I think I was just like, why bring “caste” into this – the desi man seemed to have hatred for black people – Many people people have committed crimes b/c of hatred for a particular race/ethnic group – and they deservedly should be punished for their disgusting attitude – by why say something about this man’s hatred and caste?

    Anyways that’s my perspective.

    Also I’m from NC and was really saddened by the young president of the senior class who was killed. My sister was a senior at the time, had classes with the murdered student and knew her socially. My sis was really devastated.

    But the same murderer who killed the young UNC student also had killed an Indian student at Duke. Two Indian students were also murdered at LSU (or another university in Lousiana). Did any of this get any publicity- outside of lovely SM? I don’t know if any of these murders are hate crimes, but the fascination with that disgusting Atlanta murderer and his “apparent caste conscious” society got so much play but I just didn’t see anything on those other young indian students getting killed. Maybe it didn’t generate much news b/c it wasn’t considered a hate crime or the students weren’t presidents?

    Anyways these murders are all really sad – 150 days, what a joke.

  22. This is not about driving a wedge between anything or anybody. It is about recognizing that black on brown hate crimes are under reported. Ignoring the antipathy felt towards the most vulnerable of our immigrants is not helping matters. When three desis are killed within a few days, and in one case, the victim is blamed for having an attitude (watch the video tape and see what the people interviewed say), we should not be tip toeing around out of political correctness.

    We shouldn’t tip toe around anything, ever, out of political correctness. Which is why I’m going to tell you that I think it’s basically racist to introduce and focus on the idea of black on brown hate crime in a story about two White Russian people killing a desi guy using racial and homophobic slurs. How did we even get to this point in the conversation? Stop. Please.

  23. True, but in terms of national hate-crime reportage it’s probably not too far from the set of priorities that a revenue-minded editor/producer might be forced to follow in the hopes of staying in business (local coverage, of course, is a different animal). Things like the Duke lacrosse debacle are flogged mercilessly while a far more sensational story languishes at the local level.

    As a sometime journalist, let me tell you that if you’re looking to these people for justice, you might as well just hang up your shoes now 🙂 You identified one of the main issues – which is that the content is tied to the market. Hegemony sucks, doesn’t it? 🙂

  24. 23 · Dr AmNonymous said

    <

    blockquote>

    Which is why I’m going to tell you that I think it’s basically racist to introduce and focus on the idea of black on brown hate crime in a story about two White Russian people killing a desi guy using racial and homophobic slurs. How did we even get to this point in the conversation? Stop. Please.

    I am referring to the incidents of the Indian store clerks gunned down in Florida, Georgia, and Arizona. Crime against Asians are generally under reported, and hate crimes against Asians even more so, and hate crimes against Asians by other minorities even more, more so.

    Cases like the one in this post are possible because there is no national outcry over the systematic lack of justice for Asian victims of crime.

  25. 23 · Dr AmNonymous said

    We shouldn’t tip toe around anything, ever, out of political correctness. Which is why I’m going to tell you that I think it’s basically racist to introduce and focus on the idea of black on brown hate crime in a story about two White Russian people killing a desi guy using racial and homophobic slurs. How did we even get to this point in the conversation? Stop. Please.

    First of all, Taz, thanks for posting this, and keeping up with what’s happening. But Dr. Anomnymous, I think both: the issue that Taz brings up, and the ‘black on brown’ crimes are worth discussing, and if there is a qualitative difference of the type you suggest, that should be brought out in the discussion, instead of merely saying that it is ‘racist’.

    Ultimately it’s Taz’s call, but to my mind, these incidents are also relevant to the topic of the post and can therefore be brought up in context without derailing the thread.

    It is possible that the race of the desi was not relevant in the ‘black on brown’ crimes. But if so, that must be shown, or argued, because prima facie it is not obvious that it wasn’t. And if it might be relevant, then those incidents are in the same class as the one which Taz’s blogpost is mostly about.

  26. I am referring to the incidents of the Indian store clerks gunned down in Florida, Georgia, and Arizona. Crime against Asians are generally under reported, and hate crimes against Asians even more so, and hate crimes against Asians by other minorities even more, more so. Cases like the one in this post are possible because there is no national outcry over the systematic lack of justice for Asian victims of crime.

    I respectfully disagree. I think there are many more factors at play, and there is indeed a systematic lack of justice for people at the bottom rungs of social hierarchies (which includes some/many Asians), but also includes immigrants, poor people, convicted criminals, people who like drugs, Black people, Latinos, victims, and many others. The criminal justice system in the U.S. as a whole is f@#ked up and to take that point and then extract it to “Black on brown crime is underreported” is fundamentally irresponsible and racist.

    Not only that, it’s counterproductive. The only way you’re going to get a national outcry is with a national movement. It doesn’t work if you play divide and rule.

    First of all, Taz, thanks for posting this, and keeping up with what’s happening. But Dr. Anomnymous, I think both: the issue that Taz brings up, and the ‘black on brown’ crimes are worth discussing, and if there is a qualitative difference of the type you suggest, that should be brought out in the discussion, instead of merely saying that it is ‘racist’. Ultimately it’s Taz’s call, but to my mind, these incidents are also relevant to the topic of the post and can therefore be brought up in context without derailing the thread.

    Chachaji, respectfully, they are relevant, but I think my label was accurate for the how and why of why those stories started coming up in this conversation. What anyone chooses to do about that is their business–I hope nothing other than to be a little more conscious of what they say and why.

  27. Ultimately it’s Taz’s call

    ::shrugging shoulders::

    Ultimately, it’s friday. And I prefer letting conversations go where they may. Though I think personally this isn’t an issue of black on brown crimes, or white on brown crimes – but rather why was a hate crime able to get away without being a hate crime in the legal system when there was so much evidence? Hate is hate, no matter what race inflicts it.

  28. I think it’s basically racist to introduce and focus on the idea of black on brown hate crime in a story about two White Russian people killing a desi guy using racial and homophobic slurs.

    True dat. I think many if not most desis much prefer to be seen as victims of black hate crimes than white (or latino) hate crimes. There are many stories of latino hate crimes against desis that do not get traction here.

  29. Well it seems to me that even black people are brought up on this site way too much even if the situation does not involve them. I think you should be focusing on the asshats that killed this Desi fijan and peep this they are white get that out of the way first. Like I stated in the earlier post criminals kill because they want to steal does not matter what color you are so enough of the blacks just want to kill browns because of the color.

  30. An attempt to put my hopefully-soon-to-be-minted law license to good use:

    What crime Shevchenko is actually guilty is highly fact-dependent. One poster stated earlier something to the effect of “if Shevchenko didn’t throw the punch that killed Singh, he is not guilty of murder.” That isn’t strictly true: if Shevchenko had confronted Singh with Vusik (i.e. if they had ganged up on him) he would be guilty as an accomplice of second-degree murder even if Vusik landed the the killing blow.

    From what I could gather from the newspaper accounts, though, Shevchenko was not involved in the actual confrontation that led to Singh’s death; that was the work of Vusik alone. It appears that Shevchenko was involved in the name-calling, and throwing a bottle at Singh’s companions, but did not participate meaningfully in Vusik’s attack on Singh. Therefore, Shevchenko is not, legally speaking, guilty of murder, as he possessed neither the intent to kill nor did he actually participate in killing Singh. I’m not familiar enough with California law to know exactly what Shevchenko should be charged with, but assuming the newspaper accounts are correct his conduct does not reach the threshold of murder (or manslaughter).

    Departing from the strict legal aspects of the case to my personal opinion, the “hate crime” thing is problematic. As someone pointed out, there is a difference between intent and motive. Someone else pointed out that the law treats a man who kills an unfaithful wife differently from one who kills another for money. Yes and no. A man who actually catches his wife in bed with her lover and kills them both “in the heat of passion” is guilty of manslaughter, provided he had no time to soberly reflect on what he was doing. On the other hand, a man who catches his wife in bed with his lover, storms out, and returns to kill her a week later is guilty of first-degree murder, since it was done “purposefully and knowingly.” In distinguishing between between degrees of murder, and between murder and manslaughter, the degree to which the perpetrator was able to form intent, or “malice aforethought” is important. But this refers to the perpetrators state of mind at the time of killing, not to the underlying reason why the killing took place.

    Distinguishing between the two is a tricky question it might be better to leave alone. For example, consider the two statements:

    Defendant A: I killed my wife’s lover. Defendant B: I killed my wife’s lesbian lover.

    Is Defendant B guilty of a more heinous crime? Or does it depend on whether Defendant B killed his victim because she was his wife’s lover or because his wife’s lover was a woman? How are we supposed to distinguish between the two?

    I tend to come down on the “crime is a crime” side and punish A and B equally. But I think reasonable people could disagree on this.

    Speedy

  31. I think many if not most desis much prefer to be seen as victims of black hate crimes than white (or latino) hate crimes. There are many stories of latino hate crimes against desis that do not get traction here.

    That’s just about the most tarded thing I’ve ever heard. Black skinned bania store owners are inclined to give white/Latin perps a walk because they aspire to their skin tone ?!

  32. 30 · Valmiki: True dat. I think many if not most desis much prefer to be seen as victims of black hate crimes than white (or latino) hate crimes. There are many stories of latino hate crimes against desis that do not get traction here.

    I’m at a total loss of words to explain how impossible it is to find any rationale behind that logic.

  33. 30 · Valmiki said

    True dat. I think many if not most desis much prefer to be seen as victims of black hate crimes than white (or latino) hate crimes. There are many stories of latino hate crimes against desis that do not get traction here.

    I agree. Just last night, John and Jose beat me to a pulp in Brooklyn. But I didn’t flinch. I dusted myself up, took the #3 to Harlem, and did not give up till I found a Jamal willing to take the blame when I actually called the cops. Works every time!

  34. Defendant A: I killed my wife’s lover. Defendant B: I killed my wife’s lesbian lover.

    One is crime of passion and one is a hate crime… odd how things can be defined based on one’s point of view

  35. 25 · Nayagan said

    24 · Dr AmNonymous said Hegemony sucks, doesn’t it? 🙂 for those wedded to old media, yes.

    Didn’t we already cover how Youtube pulled the Delon video without even forcing UMG to go to court even though there seems to be a case to be made? Structures of control operate even in the new media (especially whose voices get heard loudest 🙂

    That’s why we need Obama. He will fix everything.

    😛

  36. We don’t get justice in our old country and we don’t get justice in our new country.

  37. I see nothing wrong with hate crime concept. It is nice and glib to just say all killings are the same. There are crimes of passion. Murder by Self defense. Assault not intending to murder, but accidentally killing(would that be manslaughter?). .

    A hate crime is viscious because a hate crime is done for no reason at all with respect to that specific individual. Hate Crimes also have the ability to evolve into mob violence or inspire unrelated people with prejudices into attacks on other people . A hate crime doesnt have to be just on minorities. I feel Reginald Denny was the victim of a hate crime. It is not an overreaction to a conflict between two people. It is unprovoked and forces potential victims to be on guard all the time because they can be the victims regardless of their actions. I believe this principle already exists in sentencing where cold blooded murderers with less remorse tend to get higher sentences.

    IN this case, if Satendar was white and straight, and engaged in the same conduct, I wonder, if the Russians would have even engaged in the fight. And when you look at the feedback in the Sacramento Bee, condoning a hate crime is only going to make more people condone future killings for no reason other than hate of a certain race. That lowers the bar for conflict. People fight too much over petty reasons as it is.

    As far as this guy, I agree, he probably should not be charge for manslaughter or something similar. But he did contribute to the tensions. And he was part of the escape from the scene of the crime.

    I think the real villains are the local law enforcement. The way they ignored the license plate info for so long, and used such indifferent police work on the case is more troubling than this guy’s case. Vusik should get manslaughter if he ever returns. If an amateur like Vusik can escape, good luck fighting terrorism under the guise of that big joke – Homeland Security.

    Anyway, enough rambling from me.

    I am open to removing hate crime from the charges leveled at defendents. But I do think hate crime concept can be used in sentencing guidelines.

  38. 150 days because it wasn’t a hate crime. It was just a fight gone bad. The Fiji group was drinking and dancing dity in a public park where families were there with their 2-6 year old kids. When asked politely to stop, the altercation started. He was punched only once, fell and hit his head and went into a coma, probably from the intoxication as well.

  39. 39 · Pravin said

    IN this case, if Satendar was white and straight, and engaged in the same conduct, I wonder, if the Russians would have even engaged in the fight. And when you look at the feedback in the Sacramento Bee, condoning a hate crime is only going to make more people condone future killings for no reason other than hate of a certain race. That lowers the bar for conflict. People fight too much over petty reasons as it is.

    using your logic, we should start prosecuting embezzlers of minority-owned businesses as perps of hate crimes because obviously they chose to swindle the business based on the race of ownership.

    If Satender’s attacker was desi and homophobic, would you halve the sentence as it was only half the hate? How about someone who was a quarter desi?

    Look, if someone goes to the dinah shore classic with an assault rifle and starts shooting, while screaming homophobic insults, the deterrence message sent to society by his/her sentence should not be, “don’t hate gays,” but, “don’t kill people.” Why is this so hard to understand? Didn’t anyone see Minority Report.

  40. There is no perfect law. There is discretion for various kind of killings in how they are assessed. If you are asking for a perfect system, don’t expect one. If the killers were desi, but the assault was started for strictly homophobic reasons and had nothing to do with a personality conflict gone bad, then I can see it being a hate crime of some sort. Like I said, I have no problem getting rid of hate crime as a charge. But I would definitely have no problem seeing it as part of sentencing recommendations.

  41. Multiple problems. One is that of perception of our community. Vivekananda referred to us as the “mild” Indians in his famous 1893 speech. Gandhi confirmed that with his non-violent independence protests. We’re not typically known as people willing to “fight” for our own rights, we’ve always made ourselves doormats and gloat in the praise we get for being ass-kissers. India suffered the tyranny of the British Raj for almost 2 centuries and 60 years after independence, the most powerful person in the country is a European woman. Our own politicians and pseudo-celebrities would rather become a name in the mainstream world rather than use their access to the media to help strengthen our community. They’d rather use their “celebrity” status to campaign for their pet political candidates instead of raising a voice when there’s injustice. People become “bundlers” for politicians because their name gets printed in the papers, they want that “celebrity” tag, or it serves their business purposes. You never see them “bundling” for community centers or our religious organizations. People pay outrageous ticket prices for the latest “Unforgettable” tour yet our charitable organizations all struggle to survive. What we need is our own version of Al Sharpton. What we need are people with access to the media to make some noise, show outrage, if it’s a miscarriage of justice, let that be known.

  42. Desi Al Sharpton? Umm… I think if there was a desi Wayne Brady, he would get shouted down by people like Mills for being a menace to white people.

  43. I think if there was a desi Wayne Brady, he would get shouted down by people like Mills for being a menace to white people.

    He would make the desi Bryant Gumbel look like desi Malcolm X.

    🙂

  44. Krish**** and Dr AmNonymous get a free pass at stereotyping desis since they commiserate with black injustice. Bring on the self-loathing.

  45. Assertive, feared if not respected…yes. Hopefully Gandhi is becoming increasingly irrelevant to young Indians. But Sharpton is a buffoon…does anyone remember the Tawana Brawley fiasco? Someone whose one thing is discrimination will turn up a lot of “false positives”. We’ve got to do things our own way

  46. Krish**** and Dr AmNonymous get a free pass at stereotyping desis since they commiserate with black injustice. Bring on the self-loathing.

    Care to elaborate since you’ve decided to flame me?

  47. I want to be vey careful here because I don’t want to associate myself with some of the hateful things people have said against African-Americans. I do find the PTR approach of appealing to some common victimhood bogus. Our problems are not the same. Not all of the prejudices are formed in the old country or as an attempt to cozy up to the “Man”. Anyone who takes public transportation on a regular basis will be the target of racist absue from our fellow PoC. I agree that this is not the place to discuss this, but failing to address this type of news is also telling

  48. Hopefully Gandhi is becoming increasingly irrelevant to young Indians.

    Multiple problems. One is that of perception of our community. Vivekananda referred to us as the “mild” Indians in his famous 1893 speech. Gandhi confirmed that with his non-violent independence protests.

    What’s with all this? Gandhi and nonviolence movement is based on strength – colonialization, imperialism, oppressing another group of people, castism and wars that kill innocent lives, and genocide, based on hate, all are weaknesses. India has both in it’s history. And Gandhi’s nonviolence movement is one of our pillars of strength, not a weakness. I don’t think in anyway Gandhi is becoming irrelevant. I don’t agree with Gandhi in many things – he was a man and not perfect. But India’s freedom movement was characterized by strength ; I think we realize that the ascetic life that Gandhi embraced doesn’t necessarily have to rule India’s future. Ascetics and Tatas can all exist together.

    I remember reading this one book – I think called “snakes and ladders” and it described that India, when newly independent, really embraced “poverty” – we took pride in it – lol! Well I think the India of today realizes that you don’t have to be poor to be moral; that said, just because we’ve embraced economic reforms that is all about investment and making money, doesn’t make India’s freedom movement, Gandhi’s Satyagraha, a movement of great strength and not the weakness that is part of continuous warfare and genocide – that has defined many developing nations and India hopefully will overcome its own weaknesses so it won’t be like that. Where Indians showed their weakness to me, was during partition, our religious fighting etc, storming the babri mosque, or killing innocent Hindus in a train -that’s what is weak and disgusting.