150 Days for a Hate Crime

The Mutiny has been following closely the case of the Satendar Singh’s murder. He is the 26 year old Fijian national who died after he was fatally injured in a public park in Sacramento last summer. Singh was attacked by two men who made racial and homophobic slurs before assaulting him.

Though Andrey Vusik had fled the country, there has been an ongoing trial against his accomplice Aleksander Shevchenko. The trial has been going on this past June. The big debate amongst the jury? Was this or wasn’t it a hate crime.

After more than four days of tense deliberations, the jury of seven women and five men could not agree on whether the defendant was involved in the confrontation because he believed Singh was gay. The panel emerged before noon and told Judge Gary S. Mullen that they were “irrevocably deadlocked” on the hate- crime allegation that Aleksandr Shevchenko, 22, faced for his role in last year’s fight. The Sacramento man was found guilty on two misdemeanor counts: disturbing the peace and simple assault for throwing a bottle. [SacBee]

Reading Anna’s post on the case from last summer, it’s hard to imagine this case could be considered anything BUT a hate crime. They returned to court July 11th.

A 22-year-old Sacramento man has been sentenced to 150 days in jail for his role in the death of a Fijian immigrant...Shevchenko was convicted in June of disturbing the peace and simple assault for throwing a bottle during a confrontation last summer between two groups at Lake Natoma, about 15 miles east of Sacramento.[GLT]

150 days for killing a man, huh? Seems like we haven’t come that far since the Vincent Chin case. Words escape me.

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About Taz

Taz is an activist, organizer and writer based in California. She is the founder of South Asian American Voting Youth (SAAVY), curates MutinousMindState.tumblr.com and blogs at TazzyStar.blogspot.com. Follow her at twitter.com/tazzystar

93 thoughts on “150 Days for a Hate Crime

  1. I want to be vey careful here because I don’t want to associate myself with some of the hateful things people have said against African-Americans. I do find the PTR approach of appealing to some common victimhood bogus. Our problems are not the same. Not all of the prejudices are formed in the old country or as an attempt to cozy up to the “Man”. Anyone who takes public transportation on a regular basis will be the target of racist absue from our fellow PoC. I agree that this is not the place to discuss this, but failing to address this type of news is also telling

    It’s a relief to have a legitimate conversation about race :) I agree with you that the ways in which race and citizenship and the criminal justice system and society interact are complex and that different people, different races, different sexualities experience these things differently. What they have in common is: overly punitive approaches to certain groups (Black people, immigrants, etc.); lack of adequate provision of services to certain people (Black people, limited English speakers, poor people, etc.); lack of attention to these issues to all affected groups (which is where I was attempting to draw the commonality). But yes, obviously there are Black people who are racist against desis, desis who are racist against Black people, Puerto Ricans who hate Mexicans, etc. etc. etc. – without this, the overall system wouldn’t be able to survive, in the name of the “common good.”

    btw, there isn’t a single “ptr approach”…we’re just people :)

  2. Desis went all batsh*t over Apu and Simpsons handing racists a stick. I put that all on Gandhi & that infernal biopic. People expect passivity from us and boy do we deliver

  3. Desis went all batsh*t over Apu and Simpsons handing racists a stick.

    I find Apu funny – in the context of the Simpsons who make fun of everyone, I think it’s a strength of our community that we can laugh at ourselves.

    After the Macaca incident, it was cool, how that young desi boy and organizations like SAALT handled such racism. Put Mr. noose in his place.

  4. Desis have a long tradition of violence and nonviolence. Embracing the nonviolence part has shown our strength, not maniacal rulers. Emperors like Ashoka showed that warfare is actually cowardly and weak and he tried to embrace other types of thinking that is in our culture. India’s got a long way to go, particularly b/c of the economic policies we had embraced for so long, that was just hurting us, but throwing away a long, strong tradition of nonviolence isn’t going to get us anywhere, unless we want to go the route of Afghanistan, etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka_the_Great

  5. Ascetics and Tatas can all exist together.

    Yeah, in fact they were pretty mutually supportive:

    In the Indian Opinion, dated December 17, 1910, under the heading Tata and Satyagrahis, Gandhi wrote: “By donating another sum of Rs 25,000 for the Satyagraha Campaign, Mr Ratan Tata has demonstrated that he has utmost sympathy for us and that he fully appreciates its value. Including his earlier donations, a total of Rs 125,000 has been offered in India.”
    Though he emphasized the plight of peasants, Gandhi’s attitude towards their class demands was not unlike his attitude towards workers’ struggles. When the Moplah uprising in Malabar occurred back in 1921, Congress was downright hostile. Some of the peasant strikes hit tea plantations owned by Congress members, who did everything possible to stop the revolt. Gandhi gave a speech in which he declared that the objective was to “turn zamindars into friends.”45 He made it clear that he deprecated all attempts to create discord between landlords and tenants and advised all the tenants to suffer rather than fight, for they had to join forces against the most powerful zamindar, namely the Government.46 He went so far as to reassure the landlords that, I shall be no party to dispossessing propertied classes of their private property without just cause. My objective is to reach your hearts and convert you so that you may hold all your private property in trust for your tenants and use it primarily for their welfare. But supposing that there is an attempt unjustly to deprive you of your property, you will find me fighting on your side.47 Peasants, who were becoming increasingly radical, felt betrayed. In one village, the same people who had showered him with garlands later refused him food. Gandhi was always trying to reconcile class divisions, and his commitment to nonviolence was one way to keep the struggle reigned in. The refusal to endorse selective use of physical force virtually ruled out strikes as a method of struggle. As one Bombay mill owner remarked about strikes in 1929, “peaceful picketing does not really exist,” since the point of picketing is to prevent scab workers from getting into the mill.48

    There was always a tension in Gandhiian mass mobilization and more generally in Congress’s work that authors like Francine Frankel have nicely outlined – the nationalist struggle was led by zamindars, high caste Hindus, the small capitalist elite, and others, but it needed the bulk of the people to support the nationalist movement without demanding too much on class grounds. Here is where Gandhi and non-violence came in handy.

  6. the nationalist struggle was led by zamindars, high caste Hindus, the small capitalist elite, and others, but it needed the bulk of the people to support the nationalist movement without demanding too much on class grounds. Here is where Gandhi and non-violence came in handy.

    Wow. Do you agree with the following summary? the civil rights struggle was led by black lawyers, pastors, the small capitalist elite, and others, but it needed the bulk of the people to support the civil rights movement without demanding too much on class grounds. Here is where MLK and non-violence came in handy.

  7. 56 · amaun said

    the nationalist struggle was led by zamindars, high caste Hindus, the small capitalist elite, and others, but it needed the bulk of the people to support the nationalist movement without demanding too much on class grounds. Here is where Gandhi and non-violence came in handy. Wow. Do you agree with the following summary? the civil rights struggle was led by black lawyers, pastors, the small capitalist elite, and others, but it needed the bulk of the people to support the civil rights movement without demanding too much on class grounds. Here is where MLK and non-violence came in handy.

    This is annoying. Say what you want to say or go away. If you disagree with my assessment of the Indian nationalist movement, just say so and how (it’s a pretty strong current consensus among academics, to the extent that I’ve been exposed to things). My opinion of the Civil Rights movement in the U.S. won’t shed any light on anything, but I’m happy to have that (separate) conversation if you start just expressing yourself more forthrightly. And you still haven’t answered my question about what you meant above when you flamed me.

  8. I don’t agree that desis are willing to give up everything to kiss THE MAN’S ass. Yes, India was conquered several times by videsis, however, Indian cultures of various kinds and degrees are some of the oldest living cultures on the planet right now. Many other temples and other ancient sites around the world have been abandoned by their worshippers and people centuries if not thousands of years ago, whereas in India, the ancient temples are still used for worship in much the same way they were hundreds or thousands of years ago.

    Indians kept their traditions alive all this time and even well into the present, they are still going strong.

    Foriegners may have conquered the bodies of desis but they could not conquer the minds and hearts.

    Also, here in the West you see desis keep their cultural traditions alive and thriving with temples and community events celebrating various holidays. I don’t agree that desis in the West let their community and cultural concerns dwindle in service to the MAN and the US dollar.

    Desis in the West service the system as well as themselves and their culture, simultaneously.

  9. “Krish: Desi Al Sharpton? Umm… I think if there was a desi Wayne Brady, he would get shouted down by people like Mills for being a menace to white people.”

    Not intending to offend anyone, but why does most people here assume that anyone who doesn’t go with the mainstream opinion is white? I am not white (and oh yes, I was born and raised in India), but I don’t judge people by their skin color. What I was stating was just facts. In fact, I omitted the bit in my previous post that the victim threw an empty beer bottle which landed near some little kid’s feet. I don’t care what color or race the victims/accused are. I have sympathy that this guy died that way, but I am human enough not to jump to color/race prejudices. As much as I have sympathy for him, I cannot omit the fact that he was drinking alcohol in a public place (which is illegal in CA). Plus, even without that, he should have had enough decency not throw a beer bottle at others when there are kids nearby. Being a mother myself, I would not want anyone behaving like that in front of my four year old. If I have to form all opinions on the basis of skin color alone, or if I am to be targetted for not agreeing with the mainstream, them I’m sorry I posted here in the first place. I thought people here were more fair, educated, and welcoming of diversity in thoughts and opinions. Certainly, I was wrong in that presumption. Anyway, don’t worry, I won’t be posting here anymore, and good day.

  10. Mills, I didn’t call you white, I called you a white lap-dog.

    People on this site seem to be less capable of handling nuanced arguments.

    As for making Gandhi more relevant to the youth of today…. louiecypher, do you think it would be possible to get Gandhi into a routine at the gym with Hrithik as his workout buddy? I’ve found that nothing connects with the youth of today like ‘nice abs’.

    Satendar Singh did not deserve to die like this. Whatever the boisterous behavior of his crew might have been, the appropriate reaction by the Russian party should have been to contact the deputies who patrol these parks and make their grievances heard.

    You are deluding yourself if you think race and Mr. Singh’s perceived homosexuality were not factors in the attack that led to his death.

    Neither tigers nor Russians seem to be able to stomach Indian antics.

  11. Wow!! As someone who was born and spent my childhood in North East India, I had always heard stories about Indian racism on NE-ers in main Indian cities like Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore etc. But since I had never been to any of those Indian cities, I always thought those stories might be false. Now, I am having my doubts. Judging from your remarks here, Krish, I am sorry that inspite of being born/raised in the US, you still have so much pre-occupation with this “white” thing like it’s the only thing on your mind. I haven’t been in this country long, just a little bit over seven years. When I was a student on F1, I never had this big thing about distinctions between “white”, “black”, “brown”, “purple”, “green”, “yellow”…or whatever hues you can bring in. And inspite of being married to what you would a “whitie” or WASP for the past five years, I have never thought for even a minute that we are so different cos he he is white and I am not. and mother of a half “whitie” kid, I have never thought for a minute that he is white and so we are of different species like you do. My 4 year old doesn’t even know what skin color is except that Barney is purple. Seriously, you need to get over this “white”, “white lap dog”, “brownie” and the other racist attitudes of yours.

    FYI, Krish, you don’t hsve to worry about any white posting here. You might not have thought of it, but most don’t even know this website. Among the hundreds of countries to choose from, think for a minute why they would zone in to India, and esp to this SP site. They have better things to do than. And happy baking, Krish. And don’t forget the milk.

    Sepia Munity, and its moderators, for all I care, can ban me forever or delete my posts. Have a glorious time spending precious time on hate tirades.

  12. 61 · mills said

    Sepia Munity, and its moderators, for all I care, can ban me forever or delete my posts. Have a glorious time spending precious time on hate tirades.

    Hey Mills, I don’t know how much you frequent Sepia, but I don’t know why every other comment of yours imputes evil motives to the SM moderators or the entire commentariat, despite the fact that your disagreements are with a single commenter – who probably is on the more, let’s say, vehement, end of the opinion scale in the group.

    As a commenter who doesn’t disagree with some of what you say (although, given the history of the conservative Christian community in that area, and its homophobia, I am inclined to believe that hate definitely was a contributor), I still don’t see why you need to leap to comments such as “I thought people here were more fair, educated, and welcoming of diversity in thoughts and opinions. Certainly, I was wrong in that presumption.” based on the remarks of one commenter.

  13. 61 · mills said

    My 4 year old doesn’t even know what skin color is except that Barney is purple.

    Once she goes yellow, She’ll be shaking like Jello.

  14. As someone who was born and spent my childhood in North East India, I had always heard stories about Indian racism on NE-ers in main Indian cities like Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore etc. But since I had never been to any of those Indian cities, I always thought those stories might be false.

    Nope. And it’s really really sad. But you’re from the Northeast and it took you until you read an anonymous person writing on a blog to start doubting this? Someone was telling me today about a student from the Northeast a few decades ago who went to school in Calcutta because he would face anti-NE racism IN Assam from Bengalis. Methinks me smells a credibility gap in your bio/views or you simply don’t pay any attention to race (which is mind-boggling to me, particularly since you’ve lived in the U.S. for seven years).

  15. Hi “to mills”, “spongebob” et al

    The hate never stops…the assumptions never end…no wonder you have so much time in the world to focus most of your energy on calling others “kala”, “ghetto dwellers”, Whities” …prep boy mentality”…….

    It’s funny how quick “to mills” is to jump to the conclusion that I’m X’tian. I have all the respect for the X’tian faith, but I am not one, and never been one. Besides, my presumed religion is none of your business.Have spine to use your name or your regular forum name. Even a white lap dog like me have enough spine to use my real name, while you “brown mongreals” with all your bark have to hide behind sponge bobs.

    I’m sorry to say this but I am glad none of my friends, neighbors, co-workers are brown mongreals. It would have given me a perpetual migraine if I had to hear any of your “brown”, “whitey”, “ghetto”, talk in real life.

  16. 66 · mills said

    It’s funny how quick “to mills” is to jump to the conclusion that I’m X’tian.

    Where in the word did I say you are xtian?

    Have spine to use your name or your regular forum name.

    I am glad you are keeping things polite, like you’re asking others to.

  17. To Mills, If you are wondering how much I frequent this site, you don’t have to wonder long. I only found this last week, not that I intend to post here and remain on forever (but yeah, as a human being I couldn’t help commenting on the only two posts I have seen…this, and the one where some guy was saying U.S laws should take into consideration local Indian cultures when sentencing the 21st century Indian slave owners. I forgot the actual title of that thread, but yeah, I did post one there supporting someone who was shouted down by the others for pitying Indian children who work as bonded slaves. And FYI, I only stumbled to this site when I was googling about gay rights. As someone who actively supports gay marriages, I am interested in reading about it. I only pointed out here that Satender Singh’s death was not a hate crime, not my assumption, not my opinion, but which has been so deemed by a jury of his own county’s people. Now, I hope you won’t jump at me saying the entire Sac county was biased. This is California, you won’t find another state whose residents and public officials are more gay accepting. I’m sure many gay rights supporters like me would have wished this was a gay hate crime, but the truth is the truth. The Russians had no idea he was gay, this was a public drunken fight that went bad. In fact, in CA, for racial words or names, most people don’t even do jail time, they only get a probation and a fine. The guy in question here (the one who didn’t deliver that single lethal blow) at least got 150 days because the victim was gay. Had the victim been a hetero, he would have gotten only probation. End of the story. If you don’t wanna take my word, ask a lawyer in CA. The actual guy who hit the punch flew back to Russia. Bottomline is, he got 150 days not because the victim was brown, but because he was gay. If we bring in minorities and all that “racism” s–t, then both Fijians and E. Europeans are minorities. It’s very easy to cry racism, subjugation etc, and it might be valid in some cases, but this one certainly isn’t.

    But you can go on crying racism ….and can go on using your brain cells wondering about every random “non-Indian” visitor here and their motives.

  18. Dr. Annon

    Assam is me is like West Bengal, ie same people, almost same lingo, same cultures, almost same everything. If your knowledge about the NE comprises only about Assam, then I respectfully ask you to at least inform yourself about the other states before commenting. Thanks.

    Last time, I read in the Times of India that NE students in Delhi were forced to wear Indian clothes to classes at D.U while the same dress code wasn’t imposed on the rest of mainstream Indians.

  19. Doc Annon,

    I am well aware of tensions between NE ppl and mainstream Indians in the North East, what I said was I wasn’t sure if outside the NE, like say in capital cities like DElhi, Mumabi etc, that racism actively took place on minorities by majority civilians. I have heard of black students in India being called names in public, made to pay overcharged housing rent and all that stuff. And yeah, who hasn’t heard of the usual “chinkie” names hurled at NE people but what I was wondering if universities like DU also imposes dress codes on certain student population when it doesn’t do for the entire student population.

    And back in the NE region, I am well aware of the multiple rapes and murders of innocent women, little kids by Indian military personnel deployed there for so called “law and security” purposes. But all along, I had always been of the view that it was done only by the Indian Armed Forces, and not by civilians. But this is not the topic here…. And no, I did not come here to post hate on Indians…I replied back only when I was referred to as a white lap dog only for saying this particular crime wasn’t a hate crime, which wasn’t anything I had expected anywhere. I will honestly say that I don’t feel a part of mainstream India, saying that would be dishonest on my part. But at the same time, I haven’t hated it as some of you here presume. To me, it has just been a country like Vietnam, or Mexico, or Australia, ie, I have just been indifferent.

  20. 68 · Mills said

    But you can go on crying racism ….and can go on using your brain cells wondering about every random “non-Indian” visitor here and their motives.

    Where did I cry racism? Or wonder if you were non-Indian or otherwise? Or say anything about your motives.

    I’m still being polite inspite of your comments. See how easy?

  21. “And no, I did not come here to post hate on Indians…I replied back only when I was referred to as a white lap dog and the ref. to the “yellow sponge bob” thing only for saying this particular crime wasn’t a hate crime, which wasn’t anything I had expected anywhere. I will honestly say that I don’t feel a part of mainstream India, saying that would be dishonest on my part. But at the same time, I haven’t hated it as some of you here presume. To me, it has just been a country like Vietnam, or Mexico, or Australia, ie, I have just been indifferent. “

    This part was addressed to “to mills”, not to Doc annon. Sorry about this, but I tend to type rather fast. My apologies.

  22. 72 · Mills said

    And no, I did not come here to post hate on Indians…

    Where did I say you came here to hate post on Indians? Or even ask if you felt part of India?

    I am all for attributing motives to me based on a few comments, but I would love for them to be based in reality.

  23. 72 · Mills said

    And no, I did not come here to post hate on Indians…I replied back only when I was referred to as a white lap dog and the ref. to the “yellow sponge bob” thing

    Oh yeah, whattabout Sponges then, you Purple-Power Yellow-hater. Do you even allow your kid to watch SpongeBob? I doubt it! Its Barney 24/7 for your type. Notice how you otherize us by calling us “thing.”

  24. Mills, chill. We couldn’t say it better than this:

    Hey Mills, I don’t know how much you frequent Sepia, but I don’t know why every other comment of yours imputes evil motives to the SM moderators or the entire commentariat, despite the fact that your disagreements are with a single commenter – who probably is on the more, let’s say, vehement, end of the opinion scale in the group.
    As a commenter who doesn’t disagree with some of what you say…I still don’t see why you need to leap to comments such as “I thought people here were more fair, educated, and welcoming of diversity in thoughts and opinions. Certainly, I was wrong in that presumption.” based on the remarks of one commenter.

    And truthfully, I don’t know that we would have been as patient as they were. You are comment-fighting with ONE person and you are projecting that interaction on to hundreds of other mutineers. How is that fair? Or educated? Or Welcoming?

  25. Spongebob, nope, I don’t let my kid watch spongebob and neither does he want to watch it himself cos Spongebob is not appropriate for 4 year olds. And about you worrying about him turning jello when he turns yellow, save your time. His mom is yellow, so he already is. We have other things to do rather tahn pick TV shows based on color (rather than on substance, age appropriateness) unlike you apparently do.

    To Mills, It’s not just one person and you know it and I know it. Besides, I don’t fall for red herrings. Funny thing is when other posters here group the whole Indian diaspora as one and no one says anything about it, you don’t like it when I do the same. And nope, I am not educated. I don’t equate some univ degrees or Phds to education. This is not India where people use fake univ degrees as a passport to social acceptance/matrimonial ads or whatever they can think of.

  26. 76 · Mills said

    His mom is yellow, so he already is. We have other things to do rather tahn pick TV shows based on color

    Ah, but notice how you claim to not see color but slyly slip into the conversation the fact that you are “yellow.” You’re secretly proud of your yellowness, like I am. embrace youe inner yellowness, mills. once you go yellow, there’s no other fellow.

  27. 76 · Mills said

    Funny thing is when other posters here group the whole Indian diaspora as one and no one says anything about it, you don’t like it when I do the same.

    I just don’t like incorrect generalizations. Generalize all you want, but make reality your friend.

    It’s not just one person and you know it and I know it. Besides, I don’t fall for red herrings.

    Ok, since you say you just showed up very recently on Sepia, let’s play a simple counting game. How many people on this thread called you derogatory names? What red herrings are you talking about? I mean, apart, from the questions I asked you about what you said to me…

  28. This is not India where people use fake univ degrees as a passport to social acceptance/matrimonial ads or whatever they can think of.

    The huge swings in the tone of mills’ comments make me think that he/she/it is a troll just making trouble on this post.

  29. My dear spongebob, I actually don’t have any interest in wasting precious time talking to the likes of you. But I was thinking you apparenlty may have kids, or might in the future, so I am commenting. Why just stop at spongebob, or is that the only one you know. FYI, spongebob is meant for kids in the age group of 6-9. Will you let your kids watch Little Bill (a black 5 year old), Dora/Diego (Hispanics), Kai-lan (Chinese) for that matter? I don’t think so. I’m sure you will be first looking at their colors, rather than what the stories are about, or even whether your kids like them. Rather, I’m sure you will force your 3-5 year olds to watch half naked men/women danacing or singing some Indian langauge songs in some Indian movie. I pity your kids.

    I am neither ashamed to be yellow, or proud of it. It’s immaterial. I don’t see my color as the only identifying thing in my life.

    If you’re so unhappy of your color, I suggest you should just go back to india where you will be happy.

  30. It’s hilarious reading some of the comments here!! I agree with Mills completely. With the kind of attitude most desis have (including so called “educated” folks), it’s no surprise that we have heard of so many desi crimes in the recent past….desi prof. killing son’s black wife, the Long Is. desi slave traders (and many more of their kind not yet caught), now this desi actor arrested on attempted murder, countless “honor” killings of wives, daughters, daughters-in-law esp around Chicago, illegal desi hitting cop in NJ, and of course, the less reported and unheard of public nuinsances like conducting India day parades on streets and not even hiring someone to clean up their mess but leaving it for the city.

    Just some months ago, I personally witnessed a group of young desi parents verbally abusing a little Mexican girl in a park. Her crime?? The 3 (or 4 year old girl) had the audacity to push one of their kids when those future desi gangsters were ganging up on her and not allowing her to use the park’s slide. And instead of chiding their kids for their behavior, these apparently good desis from good families, educated, blah blah turned on the little girl instead. Thankfully, someone at the park (not desi, no way) called the cops for child harassment.

    We desis love to project ourselves as one model minority, and talk of ourselves as one. But if anyone brings up anything we don’t wanna hear, we are so quick to condemn the poster. Look around here, anyone who has read a couple of threads here know that racist words are used heavily by almost everyone, and that’s enough to turn most visitors off.

  31. I will honestly say that I don’t feel a part of mainstream India, saying that would be dishonest on my part.

    Good for you! And thanks for being honest! I were from most parts of the Northeast, I wouldn’t either. I can’t believe the casualness with which well-educated and decent people would throw around racial slurs or fetishize Northeasterners or otherwise assume they were “different” and not “Indian” (setting aside the economics of it all, which is a big deal as well).

    The DU thing is extremely interesting – because you have gender, race, region, policing etc. all mixing together at once. I think the problem stems from the idiocy of the authorities in always trying to decide what’s best for other people (particularly women) – which applies here especially to women from the Northeast but in other contexts to women in general in India – without any democratic process. But I can understand why you see it differently from your position.

    Anyway, thanks for the conversation.

  32. We desis love to project ourselves as one model minority, and talk of ourselves as one. But if anyone brings up anything we don’t wanna hear, we are so quick to condemn the poster.

    This guy or girl brings up a great point.

  33. The 3 (or 4 year old girl) had the audacity to push one of their kids when those future desi gangsters

    Desi kids grow up to be gangsters?

  34. spongebob is meant for kids in the age group of 6-9. Will you let your kids watch Little Bill (a black 5 year old), Dora/Diego (Hispanics), Kai-lan (Chinese) for that matter?

    My 9 year old Daughter used to watch all those shows a couple of years ago, but now all she wants to do is play guitar hero and that another story.

    The only show I wish my daughter had not watched was Dora the Explorer. I just found that Dora and her best friends Boots are illegal immigrants. If you watched the show Dora would speak Spanish to make little kids learn spanish as the 1st part of major plans by the National Council of La Raza to take over the southern United States and claim it back for Mexico.

    Hopefully American border agent Swiper the Fox will be able to stop Dora, Diego and Boots.

  35. Y’know, there are a bunch of new commentators here spouting Premaisms, coming to his defense, while assuming the bloggers here–who are well known left wing subversives–are actually light-skin obsessed brahman fundamentalists, like myself. There’s absolutely no way more than one kimchi-eating tranny on the verge of a shooting spree exists. I suspect foul play.

  36. Yup, there is also absolutely no way more than one Kimveer Gill who is on the verge of a shooting spree exists!! :)

  37. Suki Dillon, Thanks for the input on Dora. I have never heard elsewhere of Dora being an illegal immigrant, but even if it were true, I couldn’t care less. For me, it’s enough that my son finds it entertaining and educational (it’s way easier for kids to pick up Spanish words that way), and I myself like the show and watch it often. In fact, I watch all the TV programs he watches. Besides, I wouldn’t want to subject a pre-schooler to ponder on issues of legal and illegal immigration. :) But that’s just me.

  38. There was always a tension in Gandhiian mass mobilization and more generally in Congress’s work that authors like Francine Frankel have nicely outlined – the nationalist struggle was led by zamindars, high caste Hindus, the small capitalist elite, and others, but it needed the bulk of the people to support the nationalist movement without demanding too much on class grounds. Here is where Gandhi and non-violence came in handy.

    I understand what your saying and it’s been awhile since I’ve read anything academic on Gandhi – Thanks for that link on Tata and Gandhi. When I said “ascetics and tatas can exist together” i didn’t realize how true that was.

    Gandhi was a spiritual leader and a politican to me. His politics involved not shaking the boat so to speak, among Indians until we get the Brits out. He certainly, at least from my understanding of history, didn’t have a problem with strikes against the Brits. But I can see how sometimes he had to compromise positions to unite Indians against the British. I don’t know what his ideas would have been had he lived.

    I commented on the idea that to some commentators India is considered weak – we’ve had kingdoms and conquests as have most other parts of the world. So many parts of the Europe have been run over by one group or another, and sometimes, like what you see in the Balkans it can still lead to violence and destrucition- based on something that happend in the 13th century. There’s nothing weak to me about Ahimsa and satyagraha, and it’s much stronger ideas than all out killing at anyone. Was Gandhi a politican – yes and just like I see so many American politicans, he had to compromise (imo) his ideals for what was expediant to keep a united front, against something more sinister.

  39. It’s hilarious reading some of the comments here!! I agree with Mills completely. With the kind of attitude most desis have (including so called “educated” folks), it’s no surprise that we have heard of so many desi crimes in the recent past….desi prof. killing son’s black wife, the Long Is. desi slave traders (and many more of their kind not yet caught), now this desi actor arrested on attempted murder, countless “honor” killings of wives, daughters, daughters-in-law esp around Chicago, illegal desi hitting cop in NJ, and of course, the less reported and unheard of public nuinsances like conducting India day parades on streets and not even hiring someone to clean up their mess but leaving it for the city.

    I don’t know why I’m bothering to comment, but turn on any news shows or crime statistics in different ethinic groups and see the amount of violence against women, murders, rapes, public nuiances that nondesi groups commit…It’s stupid to sit here and compare but since you are trying to stereotype desis, I suggest you look at crime rates for other ethnic groups (including violence against women,( how many American nondesi women are killed every year while pregnant – there’s so many cases that are covered everyday in the news shows). YOu hear a couple of stories (and I’m not saying there isn’t more) and then stereotype south asians as a whole – that’s kindof weird, when I’m assuming you don’t stereotype other ethnicities based on their crimes both anecdotally or statistics. Those people were horrible that were involved in killing their daughter in law, or mistreating their maids, etc, but do you realize how many of those same types of crimes are committed by other ethnic groups, perhaps at a higher rate?

    Weird conclusions you draw.

  40. PS, okies got your point. No one was sterotyping anyone. But since you know so much about other racial groups killing their black daughters in law or indulging in slavery, why don’t you bring up some cases that has happened in the recent past (and I mean in the 21st century, not going 200 years back). Please do that, and we’ll dicsuss. Thanks.

  41. Satendar Singh-A homosexual who was killed in California 2007 & predictably the BTB sympathized with him. The man who killed him was convicted of lesser charge-assault&battery . But here’s what happened. Satendar Singh was drunk in a park, committing indecency by doing ‘dirty dancing’ & exposing himself where kids could see him. The Russian man with his friend were upset over Satendar Singh’s anti-social conduct & told him that they were going to teach him a lesson, so they hit him a few times. Satendar Singh died, but the men didn’t intend to kill him, only beat him up to teach him a lesson. Yes, the men should’ve called the cops. The jury concluded the man didn’t intend to kill him, & the man who killed Satendar Singh got 5 months in jail. Gay sites complained about the verdict & sentence, yet they didn’t care about Satendar Singh’s anti-social conduct before he was killed. Satendar Singh had no right to expose himself in a park. He should’ve been arrested for indecency. Satendar Singh died because the alcohol slowed down his reaction & the death was negligent but it wasn’t murder because the man didn’t intend to kill him. What I have to say regarding ‘gay bashings’ is that if a gay is going to be anti-social such as commit indecency as Satendar Singh did or grab a man’s butt or groin against will (assault&battery) after which the man reacts by bashing or killing the gay, then while the man reaction or overreaction is to a crime the gay 1st did & I can’t sympathize with the gay. I mean if a man were to grab a woman’s butt or boobs against her will after which the woman or woman’s husband or boyfriend bashes or even kills the man, many wouldn’t sympathize (sympathise) with the man on the grounds his anti-social conduct caused the overreaction. What happened to Satendar Singh was excessive force, however the man reacted to a crime that Satendar Singh 1st did which is why I don’t sympathize with Satendar Singh as he had no right to behave the way he did.