The Arranged Marriage World … is Flat

For those of us who are so wishing that the public’s fascination with arranged marriages was over, well … it’s not. Back in 2005, there was a lot of buzz [including here] around financial writer Anita Jain’s New York magazine article “Is Arranged Marriage Really Any Worse Than Craigslist?” So much so that she got a book deal out of it.

Next month, her memoir Marrying Anita: A Quest for Love in the New India will be published in the UK, US, and India by Bloomsbury. anitaj.pg.jpg The book is being pitched as a “witty, confessional memoir” that simultaneously records Jain’s romantic quest and the story of “a country modernizing at breakneck speed.” The big question it asks: Is the new urban Indian culture in which she’s searching for a husband really all that different from America? Has globalization changed the face of arranged marriage

I want to groan, but I’m trying to be openminded and wait till I’ve actually read the book. I can’t help it though. The red flags go up in my mind when I hear about another arranged marriage book. And, now, this one combines that with another buzz word “globalization.” Is this the chick lit version of Thomas Friedman’s “The World is Flat”?

[Below the fold, glimpses of an excerpt which appeared at the Guardian last weekend.] At the Guardian is “The Marrying Kind,” an excerpt from the book. In the following section, Anita decides to move to India to find a husband.

In my three years in New York, I didn’t come close to even one romantic relationship. Dating felt like an absurd cat-and-mouse game, where people were more concerned about what they could get away with than with settling down. Despairing of another summer of Sunday brunches with the stodgy and unresponsive company of the New York Times, I knew I had to leave New York, but where could I go?
That was when I began to think of going to India. There are more men in India than women, around 930 women to every 1,000 men, according to recent census data, the discrepancy a disturbing result of infanticide and sex-segregated abortion. So I figured my options were simply more plentiful in India. In cities such as Delhi and Mumbai, the vast majority of marriages were still arranged, but I’d also heard that a culture of dating and sleeping around was gaining ground. Nonetheless, in India, a desire to be married wasn’t at loggerheads with the advances for which feminists had struggled.
People commonly go to India to find themselves or find God, but I went to find a husband. I would give myself a year, which I figured was ample time in such a marriage-oriented society. I wondered if I’d be able to find someone modern enough in his thinking to be comfortable with a wife making decisions for the household and having a full life outside the marriage – one that included going out with friends, drinking and smoking. A woman who has had sex in the past – and not just with long-term boyfriends.

So, how, the Guardian editors ask in the story’s head, “Would Delhi men cope with a Harvard-educated working woman? And what happened when her father placed an advert seeking a ‘broad-minded groom’?”

Anita’s dad, we discover, apparently has too-high expectations of sealing the deal during his six-week trip to India. His optimistism yields to a trickle of responses which are followed by disappointing in-person meetings. At an encounter with a corporate lawyer, the following ensues:

My father wants to see if there is more to the fellow. He believes only one question is required to take the measure of a man. Leaning in, he carefully chooses his words in Hindi: “If my daughter Anita is sick and cannot cook, who would cook dinner?”
Waving his hand as if shooing away a fly, Vinod answers, “I have a maid.”
Knowing how decisive the question is, Papa gives him another chance. “The maid is sick. Who cooks?”
“I have two maids,” he says, notching up his attitude of arrogant dismissiveness.
“Your other maid is sick, too. Who cooks?” my father says, relentlessly.
“I’d hire a third,” Vinod says, unblinkingly.
Neither is backing down. It is a face-off. “Forget the bloody maids! What do you do?” Papa bellows.

Gulp, at the end of all these examples, wouldn’t the average reader be left with the feeling that there are no broadminded men in India? Or is this just the excerpt that was chosen because it was deemed “juicy” enough to boost sales? (I know many progressive and broadminded desi men, my husband included, so am really hoping that this book is more than your stereotypical arranged marriage kahani. My copy of the book is on the way so stay tuned.)

For those in the NY area, the author will be reading with Sandeep Jauhar at the Asian American Writers Workshop on August 7. Details here.

275 thoughts on “The Arranged Marriage World … is Flat

  1. Therefore it’s best to marry someone who is on the same page as you, and that is what Jain was looking for. Smart woman.

    “You need to find someone with common interest, a relationship can’t be like,

    “I’m going to church, where you going honey?”

    “Hit the pipe”

    Two crackheads can do it though…”

    -Chris Rock.

    Ms Jain needed her “crackhead”

  2. Ms Jain needed her “crackhead”

    No, she just needed a smoker, a drinker, a socializer and someone with a sexual history like her own. And hello! That constitutes most people.

    How many people do you know that do not smoke or drink or socialize or have sex?

    They are a dime a dozen. Not hard to find at all. What is hard to find is the opposite of that. Holistic people.

  3. No, she just needed a smoker, a drinker, a socializer and someone with a sexual history like her own. And hello! That constitutes most people.

    She needed someone who tapped that ass, just like she did.

  4. International Enquirer,

    I get that Ms. Jain wants someone on the same page as her and tolerant/in agreement with her lifestyle. I’m not saying that in a marriage, one party has to give up his/her interests, lifestyles, etc.

    But, I do find it rude, even offensive, that she and many other American-Indian women equate “broadminded” to tolerance & acceptance of promiscuity, alcohol/cigarette/drug use and a socially “free” lifestyle.

    To me, inherent in her definition of that term, is the flip-side that men in India, who have been raised in a completely different culture, particularly one in which women are seen as the pride (izzat) of a household and are expected to act accordingly and therefore do NOT tolerate such behaviors, are likely to be automatically considered “narrow/close-minded”.

    It’s like she’s setting forth this challenge: hey, this the kind of woman I am and I’m looking for a man in India, and if he’s not OK with this stuff, well then, clearly he’s not “modern-thinking” or comfortable with a “strong” woman. And that’s where I call BS.

  5. She needed someone who tapped that ass, just like she did.

    That’s my point, son. Most adults are tapping ass.

    Opinionated, “broadminded” is a relative term. In India I can see how smoking, drinking, having an active social life and healthy sex life would be considered “broadminded” for that place. On the otherhand, if you are living in a place where these things are, well, just normal, like I am, then “broadminded” would be someone living a holistic lifestlye – vegan, non-smoker, non-drinker, non-caffienated, non-club-scene – yogi, new age type.

    However when it comes to sexuality, even the holistic people here recognize the very basic human need for healthy sexual outlets, married or not. While I would not be comfortable dating or marrying a “player”, it does not bother me to date or marry someone who has had a safe and healthy sexual past.

    Can we really expect normal adults in their 30s to be virgins?

  6. I cannot accept her logic in this, especially when she prefaces her reasoning with “I wondered if I’d be able to find someone modern enough in his thinking…”

    Even as someone raised in the U.S., where promiscuity & other such lifestyle choices are extremely common & never given a second thought, I do not accept that these factors are the markers for a “modern” culture or person.

    Again, it’s not that she’s looking for a partner who shares her lifestyle because that is important. My disagreement is that she is doing so in a culture and country that does NOT share or support those types of lifestyle choices as a whole. And, what’s more, she’s actually using the reasoning that men in that culture who accept/tolerate such behavior are modern and broadminded, whereas those who don’t are simply intolerant and closed-minded. Even if she doesn’t come out & say that, that’s the inherent implication by the way she repeatedly words things.

    Also, International Enquirer, while I do agree that “broadminded” might be a relative term, I do not buy your argument that it can go the other way as well, where someone can say “broadminded” and mean a very holistic lifestyle where such a lifestyle is not common. I can guarantee that if a man/woman from India came to the U.S. to look for a partner, and said they were looking for someone who was “modern-thinking” and “broadminded”, I don’t think most people would automatically here think traditional, holistic, lifestyle.

  7. “broadminded” to tolerance & acceptance of promiscuity, alcohol/cigarette/drug use and a socially “free” lifestyle

    exactly, broadminded is a value judgement on one’s ability to accept different ideas.

    Repeatedly tapping that ass is one different idea, but not all. Seriously, if men in the US find her too slutty, would men in India think any different, when being from America itself already assumes a degree of having repeated sexual encounters?

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

    That’s my point, son.

    Don’t call me son. save that for your boyfriend 15 years younger than you.

  8. Even if she doesn’t come out & say that, that’s the inherent implication by the way she repeatedly words things.

    Again, spot on, she’s putting a value judgement as if only the “true free thinkers” in India will really accept and understand her.

  9. Again, it’s not that she’s looking for a partner who shares her lifestyle because that is important. My disagreement is that she is doing so in a culture and country that does NOT share or support those types of lifestyle choices as a whole. And, what’s more, she’s actually using the reasoning that men in that culture who accept/tolerate such behavior are modern and broadminded, whereas those who don’t are simply intolerant and closed-minded. Even if she doesn’t come out & say that, that’s the inherent implication by the way she repeatedly words things. Also, International Enquirer, while I do agree that “broadminded” might be a relative term, I do not buy your argument that it can go the other way as well, where someone can say “broadminded” and mean a very holistic lifestyle where such a lifestyle is not common. I can guarantee that if a man/woman from India came to the U.S. to look for a partner, and said they were looking for someone who was “modern-thinking” and “broadminded”, I don’t think most people would automatically here think traditional, holistic, lifestyle.

    Well, “broadminded” is relative in terms of both individual and culture.

    As a non-smoking, non-drinking, non-clubbing, vegetarian into things like natual healthy living, raw foods, meditation, yoga, international travel, multi-languages, etc, for me>, a modern, broad-minded man would be into the same. Not your typical beer drinking, TV watching, porn surfing American guy, the types I consider ignorant and backwards.

    However, in an Indian village, perhaps your typical beer drinking, TV watching, porn surfing American man would be considered “modern” and “broadminded”???

    And maybe to the typcial beer drinking, TV watching, porn surfing American man I am considered “conservative” because I don’t drink or smoke or club, while as perhaps to the typical small town Indian I am considered “modern” “broadminded” or “loose” because I am not married but have and advocate safe and healthy sexual activity???

    It’s all relative.

    Anyway, Jain found her man, is happy, and here we are with enough time on our hands to discuss her personal life… a woman we never met! She must be laughing all the way to the bank.

  10. Repeatedly tapping that ass is one different idea, but not all. Seriously, if men in the US find her too slutty, would men in India think any different, when being from America itself already assumes a degree of having repeated sexual encounters?

    Where did she state that American men find her “slutty”?

    Remember, when it came to spouse-finding, she limited her pool to the desi gene one.

  11. 196 · HMF said

    thats my point the 3rd column provides a level playing field, and is probably why the numbers are as low as 30%

    well, this column doesn’t even allow for desis to marry to foreign born, so obviously its skewed toward interrraiacl relationships, with the percentage of indians marrying those from all racial groups nearly doubling.

    but the point, even if we where to go with your favorite column, a whopping 30% of desis in your peer group (US raised males) are marrying white and, assuming your own argument is true, the number is even higher as you get younger, presumably toward your age…but yet you never noticed this huge percentage, instead focusing exclusively on the women. observer bias?

  12. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

    Appearantly Jain did have her cake and eat it too, and this appears to be what irks you. (besides, what is the point of having a cake if you can’t eat it?)

    For good-looking, smart and successful women like Jain (what to speak she is an author to boot!) there is no dirth of similar men who will be happy to get her.

    Now for the rest of us mortals, finding a quality mate may be slightly more difficult, and my intuition tells me that this is what irks HMF and probably alot of other guys (and girls) too.

  13. well, this column doesn’t even allow for desis to marry to foreign born,

    I believe the number shifts so drastically when allowing for foreign borns, because the age cutoff is too high.

    a whopping 30% of desis in your peer group (US raised males) are marrying white and, assuming your own argument is true, the number is even higher as you get younger,

    but not as high as the female number would get. The spread would increase.

  14. Appearantly Jain did have her cake and eat it too

    Errr, if she did , then why go to India with all kinds of “broadminded” restrictions?

  15. 198 · Opinionated said

    As a U.S. raised woman who married someone from India, this is my MAJOR issue with this whole idea of Indian women from the U.S. looking for, and eventually marrying, a groom from India. For many of us born/raised in the U.S., “broadmindedness” includes a whole list of things: equality in household chores, child raising, AND social freedoms. See, it’s that last item–social freedoms–that often causes problems. [...] Truth is, that’s NOT what most men in India believe and are not OK with that. Yeah, that’s what Indian guys in America, or American men, are alright with. But, I really HATE the notion that in order for a man in India to be considered “broadminded” by a girl from the U.S., he has to be accepting and even cool with the fact that his wife slept around before marriage, that she drinks/smokes, and that she has a busy social life and plan on maintaining her own busy social calendar apart from the marriage. I hate to break it to you, but that is NOT the stuff marriages are made of. [...] If this is what U.S.-born/raised women are looking for in men from India, I think its pathetic. Ms. Jain, and women of her mindset, are better of staying in the U.S. and living in different states to satisfy their requirements.

    I think broad-minded means accepting a person for who they are – not what they did, unless it is against the law of course. Everybody has their own boundaries, fine. I agree in general with your sentiment that Ms. Jain shouldn’t have the same expectations of DBD men as of American men. It’s the number one reason why I most likely won’t marry a DBD – the cultural difference is just too big, and I was raised with values that don’t coincide with the values of most men in India. I have a problem, however, with your second paragraph, and especially the last statement. I hate to break it to you, but that is NOT the stuff marriages are made of. So now having a social life outside of your husband is incongruous with the concept of marriage? I suppose the same doesn’t apply to men? It sounds like you are not according equal rights to men and women, though I hope that’s just a misunderstanding on my part. By the way, I was in India last December and most of the girls of my age from a certain social circle drank, smoked and had boyfriends(with whom I’m sure matters didn’t just extend to hand holding). I’m not saying whether it’s a good or bad thing, but that’s just how it is even in India nowadays.

  16. Appearantly Jain did have her cake and eat it too
    Errr, if she did , then why go to India with all kinds of “broadminded” restrictions?

    Cake = men.

    Eating it = getting men she wants and having relationships with them.

    She did just that.

    When she was younger and wanted to play the field with a wide variety, she did.

    When she got older and wanted to settle down with a desi man who accepted her, she did.

    The woman got plenty of cake and ate it. She got everything she wanted actually.

    OK I’m going to stop before I start getting jealous.

  17. Women's sexual value naturally declines as they ages - it serves an older woman's purpose if she can redefine sexuality as her conditions change through life, and convince herself and society that she's correct and genuine. Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore may epitomize this fantasy, but in reality, there are thousands of women filling gyms across the country for every Demi Moore convinced that they "still got it" while every year a new crop of 22-24 y.o. hotties commands the attention of the same men they're competing for. This is just the natural extension of the 'Have It All" lie that women have been sold for the last 50 years. Men only too eagerly buy this convention as well because it facilitates a Buffer for them and (presumedly) presents an easier route to getting laid. Therefore it is also in their interest that the myth and the Buffer be reinforced.
    
  18. Cake = men.

    Eating it = getting men she wants and having relationships with them.

    Well you can redefine the phrase however you want it.

    Since I used it, how about you ask me what I meant by it you crazy person, you.

    First of all, the expression having your cake and eating it to refers to , wanting to be in possession of the baked product and consume it, ie two contradictory things.

    Having her cake = having sex with more men than paris hilton and madonna combined.

    Eating it too = wanting to go back to India and find someone who’s more “long term relationship” centered, but ignores the fact that she wasn’t for so long.

    I think broad-minded means accepting a person for who they are

    err no. she meant it in a very specific sense to mean they’re open to her having tons of sex, while they may not have.

    and I was raised with values that don’t coincide with the values of most men in India.

    like what? A woman should be equal to a man, except when the inequalities benefit the women ?

  19. 174 · HMF said

    <

    blockquote>

    Exactly for that reason, the ‘leg up’ he has in that respect is what MAKES him Beta! That really doesn’t make any sense. Why would that make him beta if it’s an advantage?

    ugh. no its not, Because its a decision that’s usually made (not the life partner part, but the initial attraction part) in a fraction of a second. Read ‘blink’ But that is just fleeting attraction – which is important but the ultimate decision to spend a lifetime with a person is based on more than that! Anyway since you’re talking about the subconcious it doesn’t make any evolutionary sense to pick the ugly overweight ‘alpha’ white male over the hot & healthy ‘beta’ desi male, so your point is kind of lost there.

    NO! it’s absolutely not! It’s the biggest insult! It’s saying, I had to get my sexual needs fulfilled elsewhere, and I’ll settle for you for all the beta characteristics you have! It’s not a compliment for a woman to treat me like an ATM machine! You think married couples don’t have sex with each other or sexual needs? And why are you seeing yourself as an ATM machine? Do you have low self-esteem or something. Maybe she wants some more common background, something more substantial that what the average white man has to offer. It’s the most probably reason for choosing a desi mate. She could’ve settled for some rich fat white guy if she just wanted an ATM. I don’t really understand her reasons for going to India to seek a mate, but that’s a whole ‘nuther can of worms I guess. Look at it like this – those other guys were good for sex and fun, but the desi fellow is the one she wants to spend her life with, because he can offer her more than just superficialities.

    It has nothing to do with math and all in perception. In south africa you’d find the same thing , where blacks out number whites.

    Besides, the generalisations are drawn much stronger on desi guys in India… whre the population is 500,000 approximtely.

    so the numbers, in this regard, are moot.

    but nice try. Being a science major, I am of the school that needs numbers and facts, otherwise your point is worthless. And I suppose you also have the direct experience to back up that statement about South Africa?

  20. That really doesn’t make any sense. Why would that make him beta if it’s an advantage?

    Because it’s an advantage only for what woman want beta men for : security, stability, long term emotional support.

    Did you read vikrams link?

    You think married couples don’t have sex with each other or sexual needs? < ?i>

    Haven’t you heard the joke:

    “I’m celibate.” “Joined the monestary?” “No, married”

    Have you seen Chris Rock’s movie “I think I love my wife”? Arent you aware of the desexualized nature of marriages? Do you live on planet earth?

    You think married couples don’t have sex with each other or sexual needs? And why are you seeing yourself as an ATM machine?

    Nice reversal. but I don’t see myself that way, I just recognize when someone else does.

    . Look at it like this – those other guys were good for sex and fun, but the desi fellow is the one she wants to spend her life with, because he can offer her more than just superficialities.

    Again, nice attempt at a reframe. It’s because the desi doesn’t offer excitement of sex, and fun. He offers stability, money, and yes that includes emotional, but that translates to an ear to yak into and complain.

    Sorry, I dont like being someones backup, second string, I’ll take sex and fun any day over that.

  21. The problem is Rohit, that most young women are not into balding, out-of-shape, out-of-touch old men.

    I see the opposite around me. Because women do not bald and are able to maintain a nice head of hair throughout their lives, they look better than men at the age of say 45-55. I know quite a few good-looking, intelligent, confident, sexy 50 year old women with younger partners, sometimes up to 10 years or more younger.

    The reason why quality men in their 30s go for women in their 40s and sometimes above is because women actually become more confident as they grow older, more comfortable with who they are and more sexually experimental, in general. There are girls and there are women, and of course, there are ladies.

    There are boys, there are men and of course there are gentleman.

    Young women in their 20s generally date young men in their 20s, not bald guys going through mid life crises.

    However, I see alot of men in their 30s with women anywhere between 2 and 10 years older than them.

    Women reach their sexual peaks in their 30s and early 40s while men reach their’s in their late teens and 20s, not their 40s.

    From the perspective of a woman in her thirties, I would much prefer a man either my own age or up to 6-8 years young than me, than a man in his 40s. And a man in his 50s is totally out of the question. No way.

    And all of my friends feel the same way. Fortunately there are some quality men in their late 20s to mid 30s who are on us like white on rice. And of course there are always alot of sleazy guys on us too, they are not holistic enough for our tastes though and therefore we don’t make biryani.

    So the old man/young woman scenario, I am not seeing anywhere, not in my circles at least. My assumption is that it happens amongst what I would consider “non-progressive” circles.

  22. but not as high as the female number would get. The spread would increase.

    lets for the sake of argument assume your correct. if the trendlines continue, the spread would increase but so would the absolute percentage points. so men who are marrying whites at a 30% rate would presumably be going up, just not at the same rate as women.

    but in order for your gender disparity to be correct you need a complete reversal of the trend, which btw, raises the possibility that the spread might reverse as well. in order for “nearly all” desi interracial couples to be white male/desi female women would have to increse and men would need a magical reversal.

    so, given where the stats are, the mathematical probability of your theory being right is close to nill.

  23. Being a science major, I am of the school that needs numbers and facts, otherwise your point is worthless.

    Fine, let’s do a survey, if anyone here disagrees that there are certain strong conclusions drawn on Indian males from India (DBDs) that are not flattering, and in fact very prevalent in the US born/raised Indian female, speak up now.

    Here’s one person that agrees:

    “the number one reason why I most likely won’t marry a DBD – the cultural difference is just too big, and I was raised with values that don’t coincide with the values of most men in India.”

    hmm, I wonder who said that.

  24. “So the old man/young woman scenario, I am not seeing anywhere, not in my circles at least.”

    You mean your circles in the mental hospital Pardesi Gori?

  25. You think married couples don’t have sex with each other or sexual needs?

    I wont even get into the myriad of comics that joke about married sex life being stagnant, dead, and lifeless.

    And why are you seeing yourself as an ATM machine? Do you have low self-esteem or something.

    I don’t see myself as one, I just recognize when someone else does.

    Maybe she wants some more common background, something more substantial that what the average white man has to offer. It’s the most probably reason for choosing a desi mate.

    a small fraction of indian women who have confronted their own internal biases, and recognized media effects, disneyfication, etc.. yes they are genuinely looking for substance.

    She could’ve settled for some rich fat white guy if she just wanted an ATM.

    The rich fat guy doesn’t offer social sanction. so a rich fat indian guy will do.

    Look at it like this – those other guys were good for sex and fun, but the desi fellow is the one she wants to spend her life with

    because he doesn’t bring that unpredictiblity, excitement, craziness, energy, he has stability, “niceness”, courtesy, all those things, things which I have had for years but have gotten me no place. That day is over now.

    because he can offer her more than just superficialities.

    Many people woudl rather have sex and fun instead of a lifetime of nagging and complaining. Seriously, it’s not a compliment at all.

  26. Having her cake = having sex with more men than paris hilton and madonna combined. Eating it too = wanting to go back to India and find someone who’s more “long term relationship” centered, but ignores the fact that she wasn’t for so long.

    OK, so then we agree, the woman had her cake and she ate it too, because what you wrote above is exactly what she got.

  27. “Errr, if she did , then why go to India with all kinds of “broadminded” restrictions?”

    I’m with HMF on this one. Bottom line: Ms. Jain’s whole attitude of “well, I’ll just go to India and find a broadminded, modern guy who’ll just have to accept my strong, independent womanly ways” reeks of shadiness.

    It’s not that girls, or even guys for that matter, go to India to find partners. It’s that they put up these BS “modern-thinking, broadminded” restrictions. Well, if that’s what you’re looking for, I think these 50 states offer a large Desi selection. Don’t take our (i.e. U.S.) notions of normalcy & project them onto a significantly different population.

  28. You mean your circles in the mental hospital

    No, the holistic, health-conscious, vegan, yoga, hot guys with hot bods circles, thankyou very much! (I’m not complaining).

    wanting to go back to India and find someone who’s more “long term relationship” centered, but ignores the fact that she wasn’t for so long.

    For everything there is a season. Just because she wasn’t long term relationship centered in her 20s or early 30s does not mean that now she is not. Who is “long term relationship centered” in their 20s anyway???

    And she did not state that she expected her DBD pati to be a virgin, did she?

    Come on, fooling around is what your 20s are for. Just because one has a normal and healthy sexual appetite as a single 20 something does not mean they are incapable of committing to a long term relationship at some further point in their life. If it does, we are all screwed!

  29. Who is “long term relationship centered” in their 20s anyway???

    me

  30. Pardesi get some help before you end up babbling to yourself all your multiple personas….oh wait too late!

  31. “Just because she wasn’t long term relationship centered in her 20s or early 30s does not mean that now she is not. Who is “long term relationship centered” in their 20s anyway???”

    Again, International Enquirer, Ms. Jain, and other Indian-American women with her mentality, are not being judged (at least not by me) because of whatever sexual, social, etc. experiences they’ve had in the past.

    What pisses me off is that they then try to pin the blame or ignorance on those (in this case, men in India) from a different culture where the accepted norms of society and of women are completely different then of society & women in the U.S., like it’s their fault because by golly they just refuse to see these women for the strong, sexually-liberated, modern, creatures that they are.

    Don’t be like “well, I tried to find a partner in one city in the whole U.S., and that didn’t work so I’ll try India now. But, he must someone who has NO issues at all with my past lifestyle choices or how I choose to lead my life post-marriage because if he’s like that, then I’ll just know he’s not modern-thinking and broadminded and will therefore have to look for someone else.” Because you know what, then the problem is not with men/women they’re looking at in India, it’s with the person him/herself.

  32. Opinionated, HMF, the world;

    There is a time in life when we are all “short-term-relationship-centered”. Then, as we mature, we become “long-term-relationship-centered”.

    When we are in the short-term mindset we look for others in that mindset. When we are in the long-term mindset we then seek a partner in that same mindset. That goes for all of us – men, women, desi or not.

    I don’t see how we can fault Jain for doing what we all do!

  33. because he can offer her more than just superficialities.

    ok let me clarify here, when you feel that someone went some place else to “have fun” but comes back to you for support and long term stability, it makes you feel like a parent. a provider. not a partner.

    Let me flip the question on you?

    If the sex/fun people are truly not good and provide only short term fulfillment, why go to them in the first place? surely , intelligent, proffessional, level=headed desi women are smart enough to understand when a truly good thing (as you’re claiming) comes along their way? Rather than just a short term fun?

  34. You think married couples don’t have sex with each other or sexual needs?
    I wont even get into the myriad of comics that joke about married sex life being stagnant, dead, and lifeless.

    This gives us more of a glimpse into your family than anything else.

    I don’t know about your’s, but my parents are in love and romantic with each other even after several decades of marriage. Sorry that you didn’t have the fortune of such a good example. It leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth regarding the topic of marriage. And I would feel sorry for the woman who ever marries you.

  35. This gives us more of a glimpse into your family than anything else.

    Holy fucking shit. Every time you speak we get a glimpse into your family, what species of baboons were they again?

    Look Im glad you have a direct peephole into your mothers bedroom, and can speak intelligently about their fucking technique, size, frequency, duration, angular momentum, torque, etc..

    but try and save what modicum of dignity you have and not bring people’s personal life into the discussion

    I feel sorry for any guy within a 10 foot radius of you.

  36. 223 · HMF said

    “the number one reason why I most likely won’t marry a DBD – the cultural difference is just too big, and I was raised with values that don’t coincide with the values of most men in India.” hmm, I wonder who said that.

    What’s your point? My statement, which I stand by, has nothing to do with desi males being ‘beta’ or otherwise – it’s not a reflection on the value of desi men themselves, but rather on the cultural differences between a desi who is raised in Western Europe and a desi who is raised in India. I will consider ABD’s, Canadian, Aussie/NZ or UK desis as potential partners.

  37. It is clear that you are a deeply disturbed individual with an incredibly pessimistic view of life, love and women.

    I have not read one positive statement from you about anything – life, love, marriage, women. So it’s obvious that something or someone has very seriously hurt you.

    Salam.

  38. 233 · HMF said

    because he can offer her more than just superficialities. ok let me clarify here, when you feel that someone went some place else to “have fun” but comes back to you for support and long term stability, it makes you feel like a parent. a provider. not a partner. Let me flip the question on you? If the sex/fun people are truly not good and provide only short term fulfillment, why go to them in the first place? surely , intelligent, proffessional, level=headed desi women are smart enough to understand when a truly good thing (as you’re claiming) comes along their way? Rather than just a short term fun?

    I didn’t say sex and fun weren’t good – I said a good long-term partner provides ALL of those things. Why do you insist on seeing the world in dichtomies? Some people are amusing but have no long term potential due to a variety of factors. Some people are amusing and don’t lack that.

  39. International Enquirer,

    Ok, I really don’t think what I’m saying is all that complicated, and yet you still seem to be stuck on one point. I’m not, nor do I think I’ve ever faulted, Jain for going through different relationship stages at different ages. So please, stop saying that over & over again.

    My problem is with the way she, and many women here, states things when looking for a partner in India. First and foremost, she uses the “modern enough” in a condescending way. Yes, it is condescending, because what she implies is that for a man in India to be “modern” and broadminded he has to be down with his wife’s past promiscuities and social excesses. And by default, even without saying it, she implies that if he is not accepting of the woman making all household decisions, drinking, smoking, and having an extensive past sexual database, he is narrow-minded. Do you get that?

    Furthermore, she is condescending toward the same population from where she hopes to find a suitable partner. If these are the qualities she, or other women in her position, are looking for in a partner, there are plenty of Desi options here in the U.S., and she wouldn’t even have to try so hard to find a “modern” Indian man because many here would be likely to have the same background as her.

    Also, FYI, “broadminded”, “forward-thinking” and “modern” are also terms young men, women, and parents in India use as well. But, they use it in the negative context….when someone is called these things, you can be sure they’re likely regarded as sexually promiscuous, using alcohol/smoking, and a variety of other connotations that most people wouldn’t want to be associated with. Just a fun little tidbit….

  40. If the sex/fun people are truly not good and provide only short term fulfillment, why go to them in the first place?

    Who knew HMF was such a puritan?

  41. What’s your point? My statement, which I stand by, has nothing to do with desi males being ‘beta’ or otherwise – it’s not a reflection on the value of desi men themselves, but rather on the cultural differences between a desi who is raised in Western Europe and a desi who is raised in India. I will consider ABD’s, Canadian, Aussie/NZ or UK desis as potential partners.

    Then what data are you requesting?

    I said Indian men are generalized on more (whether it be beta or whatever), by Indian women, where as white men are not, and you responded “its because there are more white men and hence harder to generalise” and I said that’s bullshit, because look at half a million Indian men that are generalized on with out a flutter of an eye.

    Then you said, “without data the point is meaningless” and I provided you , your own statement of generalization on half a million people.

    Are you requesting data that shows Indian women find Indiam men beta? I thought you conceeded that, it’s just in your warped sense of reasoning, you are casting that into the highest complement in the world.

  42. Opinionated, I hear ya.

    Personally India is probably one of the last places on Earth I would go to for the purpose of finding a spouse, however, I would be open to the possibility of meeting someone there in an organic way, if it happens I will let it happen.

    I agree with you that we can’t expect people of very different cultures to conform to our expectations when we visit those cultures. I don’t do that. However, I do have to admit that I do expect to find people on my own wavelength right in America, even though my values often clash with the “typical Americans” that I’m meeting – flesh eating being one of those. While I don’t expect most people I meet to be vegetarians, I do purposely seek out vegetarian people and people who share other values of mine which are not commonplace in this country.

    I do not think it is hypocritical of me to do so. I also don’t think it’s hypocritical of me to maintain my values and NOT CONFORM to my larger culture in areas where the values are against mine, just because I was born and raised here in that culture.

    So in a sense I might be like Jain, expecting to meet people who conform to my values in a place where the wide majority of citizens do not think like me.

    And I would never be able to find people like me in this country/culture unless I purposely expressed what I was looking for and went out to find it.

  43. I said a good long-term partner provides ALL of those things.

    “For women, life is like one big sale, just get as much shit as you can before you die”

    it’s virtually impossible to have fun excitement unpredictability and stability, emotional support, the two contradict each other.

    Are you that dense, you dont’ understand the nice guy vs badboy dichotomy? this is such a well documented phenomenon, and it’s known to cause women pain, yet the behavior is repeated over and over, because the badboys trigger evolutionary attraction mechanisms.

  44. “For women, life is like one big sale, just get as much shit as you can before you die”

    Thus;

    It is clear that you are a deeply disturbed individual with an incredibly pessimistic view of life, love and women. I have not read one positive statement from you about anything – life, love, marriage, women

    Can we get just one positive statement? Just one?

  45. “For women, life is like one big sale, just get as much shit as you can before you die”

    -Chris Rock

  46. Can we get just one positive statement? Just one?

    Baskin Robbins has a day where each scoop is just 31 cents.

  47. HMF, have you ever heard of the LAW OF ATTRACTION? That you will have the experiences that you think and talk about? And then you will be self-confirmed, “see! I was right all along!”???

    How about surprising yourself by thinking postive for once and therefore attractive positive experiences into your life instead? Or do you thrive in misery?

  48. I’d have to say, it’s God’s big practical joke on men, and humanity in general, to create their in their brains, the chemical reaction of “getting horny” and physical attraction to women.

  49. I don’t have a problem with the way that Jain uses the word “broadminded”; to me, it just seems like one of those words like “homely” or “wheatish” that serves as a handy guidepost to a whole constellation of attitudes, values etc. At the very least, her use of that word clearly tells more traditional men that she isn’t interested, and that’s a good thing. Anyway, the excerpt from her book clearly showed that she restricted her quest to artsy-fartsy, bohemian DBDs. One guy even offer her hash; do you really think he’d be concerned with the occasional glass of wine or cigarette?

  50. Or do you thrive in misery?

    I call it like I see it. If you don’t like the answer, stop asking scary questions.