As a shameless carnivore, I’m not a likely PETA supporter. The campaigns are needlessly provocative, silly, and substance-free. This is of course, my opinion only, and a lackluster one at that. Let those kooky morally righteous beautiful people have their fun, cavorting naked in advertisements. My shoulders barely cared enough to shrug.
But this incident is really so vile, I’m speechless:
Ashley Byrne, a Washington, D.C.-based campaign coordinator with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), talks with Memphis police officers during a recent demonstration outside City Hall that coincided with World Vegetarian Week. When officers inquired about the well-being of intern Shawn Herbold (bottom) and volunteer Thomas Olsen, a sweat-soaked Herbold replied that she was in pain and feeling nauseated from the heat after being wrapped in cellophane for 30 minutes, and also asked how much longer she needed to stay there. Byrne let her know it wouldn’t be much longer and left her under the hot afternoon sun for 30 minutes more while debating with the officers. link
Yeah, this holier-than-thou hag wrapped two kids in plastic and left then in the blazing sun for over an hour. To demonstrate (against? for? can you tell?) World Vegetarian Week. And by the way? The East Coast is experiencing a heat wave of unbearable magnitude right now. I can only image what PETA would say if someone wrapped cute kittens and puppies in plastic and let ’em bake in 100 degree heat. Hypocrite, much?
Larger version of this image (warning: close up is disturbing) and more on PETA’s activities in India, after the jump.
Respect for animals is an intrinsic part of most South Asian cultures, whether veg/non-veg or mono/polytheistic. We’ve talked about vegetarianism and the appropriation of Hindu iconography in previous posts, but what are we to make of PETA’s growing influence in India? While South Asian food and a pantheon of deities have been imported to the West (vegans and vegetarians flock to Indian restaurants, images of Ganesh appear on flip-flops and sofa cushions, etc.) do we really need Western PETA-style philosophies exported back East?
PETA has blog on the activities of its Indian affiliates, The PETA Files. Below, scenes from an anti-leather demonstration in Bangalore. Frankly, I’m about as confused as the cops.
Photo of Interns by Mike Brown / The Commercial Appeal
OF COURSE!
46 脗路 karuna said
Dear karuna, how’s your perch on that there high horse?
Did you read my comment #13? Did you click on the link to “shameless carnivore” (if you use quotes, get it right, btw) where I espoused a view (several years ago on Sepiamutiny) similar to that of Malathi’s comment 47.
What exactly is “a post of this kind”? That PETA’s propaganda clearly has no place for humans? That shrill moral righteousness has no room for thoughtful discussion or even a little humor? The kind of misbegotten logic that leads people to faithfully recycle plastic bottles even though they keep buying bottled water because sharing communal glassware or using water fountains would be gross?
Funny how you have to be rich to follow these rules and live well. And I find it pretty damn offensive that PETA’s now attempting to impose its moral values on a culture with a millennia of vegetarianism and respect for animals.
PETA’s tactics feed into binary argument: if you’re not with them, in the most totalitarian sense possible (forget fur, no milk? no gelatin?) then you’re with those wide belt-buckled, greedy heartless capitalist ranchers.
I eat meat because I’m grateful for having food. I eat anything that’s placed in front of me.
A far more effective and useful way of supporting World Vegetarian Week would be to introduce the joys of a myriad of vegetables that Americans know nothing about. Beetroot, snake gourd, bitter gourd, pumpkin curries, cashew curries, banana blossoms, plantains, fennel leaves, fennel root, a hundred and one things to do with eggplants and okra…
This definetly is a very weird way to protest. Another one I don’t get is hunger strikes. That only hurts one party, the guy protesting!
banana blossoms
Ahh, orgasmic. … with coconut milk and spices … with shrimp (fresh & dried)
AMEN TO THAT.
I even once had a pretty interesting debate with a certain Mutineer about this topic. I was told that “going with the gut” was a form of virtue, while I tried to espouse what I consider rational dispassionate analysis.
I think there’s a whole generation of people out there who think this way now. And the world will be a worse place for it, since many of them are finding positions of power, and will make decisions that impact the rest of us.
You’ve written exactly what I wanted to way. I’ll be joining you in bypassing Cicatrix’s posts.
Heard of halal meat? animal has to be bled to death to be considered halal. Majority of meat consumed in south asia is halal.
firstly, this is an opinion, not a fact, and as such it is not imperative that everybody agrees with you. secondly, the sense of morality is, arguably, one thing that distinguishes humans from other animals, so the argument for the natural food chain is less applicable to us than to other animals. and again, the morality aspect of eating meat is an opinion, not a fact for which there is only one answer.
fried in a vadai!
i’m really surprised nobody has mentioned Petey Singer yet. Perhaps later when SM posts on an infanticide-related story…
58 脗路 ak said
I think it’s pretty deductible from molars etc that humans evolved to be omnivores. But I’m rather perturbed that you don’t see any difference between ethical treatment of animals slaughtered for meat and the torture they are put through in factory farming.
i’m playing a bit of devil’s advocate. i think both are wrong – i was just pointing out that i don’t buy that paying attention to how the animals live somehow makes one more ethical when they plan on eating the animal anyway. at best, these animals should be treated well and allowed to live. at worst, they should be treated well even if they are being killed for meat, but i don’t think that treating them well while they are alive should somehow make people feel better when these animals are being raised to be killed.
I interned with PETA one summer back when I was an idealist college student. The tactics that people comment on are 1/10th of the work that PETA does. They have cruelty case workers, a large spay & neuter campaign and undercover whistleblowers who document illegal animal abuse. Their legal team works to prosecute abusers and to strengthen legislation. They spend a LOT of time working with companies like Burget King, KFC and McDonalds to enforce more humane slaughterhouses. You never hear about this stuff b/c the media doesn’t care to report on it. PETA has to do some sensationalist tactics to keep their name out there but it is NOT all they do.
By the way, there is no need to hate PETA b/c they do some things you don’t agree with. I’m voting for Obama — I don’t agree with everything he believes in but I support his general views. The ultimate aim of PETA is to reduce animal suffering. It is a noble cause, even if you don’t agree with the tactics.
ak: ‘killing in one blow is better than torture?’
You could probably know more on that from a terminally ill person – if s/he would have rather died without suffering for months or years 馃檪
50 脗路 amaun said
I agree with this. As a vegetarian, I never make comments to others about their food of choice. But oftentimes, meat eaters feel compelled to make comments and pass judgment about my meals. Why don’t I eat fish and chicken? How can I NOT miss meat (often followed with some obnoxious comment about how delicious steak is)? What if you become anemic? I just want to tell them to STFU and let me enjoy my meatless meal.
ETA: I would pity an injured animal that may cross in front of Cicatrix. she’s probably kick him and keep walking.
This is a weak argument. Those interns are not enslaved. as someone else said, they could have gotten up and left if they wanted. a pig in a slaughterhouse doesn’t have that choice.
ak, you are usually a little bit more nuanced than this:
and this:
Please don’t allow yourself to fall into the trap of homogenizing 6 billion+ people, their geographies, ecological histories (e.g., Tibetans and their main source of protein: yak meat), agricultural histories, social and nutritional customs. Let us not impose our ethical desires on others whose ancestors came from a terrain that looked nothing like our ancestors’. Local problems, local solutions and justifications (or arguements of self-preservation). Also, I have seen firsthand that a traditional farmer’s (physical and emotional) well-being is intricately tied to the well-being of the animals in his care, yes, even if (s)he raises them purely for slaughter. You can choose to either be cynical or be respectful of the sentiment and belief.
In general, I am fascinated that so many emotions are shed over companion, farm and food and fur animals, whom I see as renewable resource, but not enough emotions are shed over extinct and endangered farm and wild animals (whom I see as non-renewable resource).
Tayeb @57:
I have witnessed the halal method too in addition to the modern methods employed in slaughter houses and abattoirs. In my opinion, reacting purely to the visual picture, the halal method comes across as less dramatic, more peaceful and more calm for all concerned including the animal.
Karuna and ava, I am merely curious: what if cicatricx had described herself as a shameless beneficiary of the wonders of the vaccine era or the era of the overflowing river of milk. Would you react this strongly?
Ok, this it from me. I have been on this thread a little too much.
Aw, you’re too kind!! I’m more likely to club it, skin it, and eat it.
Look, now that I’ve been painted into the Ann Coulter corner of this animal rights argument, let me freely say that I thought it would be obvious that my distaste was for the methods, not the cause. Clearly it wasn’t, and needed a much longer explanation in the post itself. My clarifying comments were apparently not read, and a lack of protein seems to have left some without a sense of humor.
(that was a joke, please don’t throw your plastic shoes at me.)
I’d love to have a reasonable debate on this issue, but my attempts (please see comments #13 and #52) aren’t engaged really. Instead we’ve one person reinforcing pro-PETA views under different handles. That’s kinda obnoxious, Pallavi/Naveen/Obnoxious Desi.
As I said before, these binary arguments are useless. There needn’t be two sides only to this issue, and we don’t all have to end up feeling demonized/victimized.
64 脗路 naveen said
59 脗路 Nayagan said
wow, this topic really brings out the best of the douchebags…
easy for you to say as a well-rounded meat eater.
didn’t you once say that bambi was self-obsessed and enjoyed her parents’ death?
69 脗路 veggie might said
HEY! WHo’re you calling fat!! Monitoring the comment threads isn’t the same as sitting on my ass, is it?
(dammit, so busted. Now I have to go for that run.)
Be good while I’m gone, kids.
This should read:
…but not enough emotions are shed over extinct and endangered farm animal breeds and wild animal species (whom I see as non-renewable resource).
Anyone else find it hypocritical that harming pets in US is a crime but eating other animals is ok. Some animals have rights, others don芒鈧劉t.
Someone mentioned 芒鈧渢hey are raised for slaughter芒鈧劉. I wonder how they feel about cloning humans for organs as in The Island.
for all that its worth, i don’t think the demonstration was too much. I don’t think they were being hypocritical, the people were there because they wanted to be there and they can leave, drink water, hold an umbrella, take a break, walk out or do whatever whenever they want. The intern supervisor might be disappointed or might be understanding;;;however disappointed, i’m sure they won’t kill the interns if they leave for shade. People need to need to be informed about where their food is coming from, the decision is then theirs. Most people aren’t even aware of the kind of torture the animals go through to get to their plate.
i don’t diagree with their tactics to get attention and keep people informed…but this,, i think is funny. i was looking over their website a couple of days ago and i came across this: http://www.peta.org/about/i-faq.asp
“Out of respect for animals and the work that PETA does, all interns are required to be vegan while on PETA property. This includes diet (no meat, dairy products, eggs, honey, or other animal byproducts), personal care items (cruelty-free and no animal byproducts), and clothing (no fur, leather, silk, or wool).”
hmm..maybe its just i who finds it funny…they seem quite strict!! do they have a clothing inspectors in the gates?? Will people in PETA property (which i think includes the dorm interns stay in) violating these rules be put to shame???
Anyone would feel terrible about cloning for humans as in the Island — but then again everyone knows that Michael Bay sucks and butchers the storyline in any of his movies.
(on a related note: vegetarians eat vegetables..so vegetarians who also think of themselves as humanitarians terrify me !)
That is not what I have seen. I have seen chickens jumping around with their slit throats, goats trying to get up or roll around crazily after their throats were slit. In halal slaughter animal should be conscious while its blood gets drained, think about that.
61 脗路 ak said
That’s a highly deontological argument isn’t it? It’s the thought that counts, not the means? I think treating them well while still eating the meat is perfectly fine – we’re omnivores after all, I think that’s pretty much an undisputed fact, esp. if you look at the build of our guts(no multiple stomachs like herbivores to digest the grasses, but long intestines unlike carnivores). Killing quick and (almost) painlessly is more merciful than killing by a slow and tortuous death, right?
Oh another note, vCJD was spread not just by feeding cows ground meat and bones which also contained slivers of brain, but also by the method of slaughtering which(after the cow was dead) involved cleaving the carcass from head to toe with the same blade, which was used again and again without proper cleaning.(Prions are extremely hardy and not biodegradable)
Malathi
Yes, yes, yes. I feel that SM and a lot of other blogs on the whole pay far too little attention to the emergency that is happening in our ancestral country. The tiger is on the verge of extinction but most people only care about “India shining” and the new cheap TATA car is generally seen as a good development. I’m sorry if I’m coming across too harshly but this topic is very dear to me.
Top ten Desi debates:
62 脗路 Pallavi said
67 脗路 cicatrix said
Don’t think the confluence of these three is a coincidence.
These comments are getting silly, but I do think there are a lot of salient points in this conversation:
I think PETA has, at times, done laudable work. That said, I have found their ad campaigns incredibly insensitive and ill-thought out (the Holocaust ad? the Slavery ad?) enough times to discontinue any tacit or active support for their organization.
Interns != Animals Because They Have Choice Are you nuts??? If you are wrapped in saran wrap to a piece of cardboard, it’s pretty hard to get up and walk away. Is it really necessary to stoop so low as to say that because the interns had a choice in spreading awareness that they asked or deserved to be treated insanely?
Ethical Treatment != Abstention ak, I’m amazed that you argue there is no moral delineation between how an animal is raised and slaughtered so long as it is being raised to be slaughtered. As cicatrix mentioned, there are many moral and personal philosophies that argue just that and that eschew brutalization of animals. I don’t have anything wrong with raising meat to be killed, per se, but I do think that the current system of factory farming, paired with an over-reliance on eating meat (spurred by how cheap it is, relatively speaking), has created a brutal, unhealthy, and environmentally devastating system. It’s this same rationale that also leads some individuals in non-veg faiths to abstain from eating meat under the current U.S. meat system.
Personally I don’t go in for the “we are a higher moral being and thus must refrain from our omnivore tendencies.” Maybe I am just too animalistic and think that humans have an overly high opinion of themselves, though 馃檪
I don’t see what’s wrong with cicatrix offering the disclaimer that she’s an omnivore. How is this offensive? Is there a tacit assumption that all desis are veg, or ought to be?
You’re right that this is my opinion. I wasn’t trying to push it across as fact. I’m not so sure about the morality aspect that you bring into this, it’s more complex than sayng somebody is corrupt morally because they eat meat.
Malathi well said. Your comment about how a farmer’s well being is tied to the animals under his care reminds me of an uncle of mine, who has a pig sty and sells meat. It is amazing to see how much he cares about them at the risk of his own physical health. Last time i saw him, he was spending sleepless nights because one of the pigs wasn’t eating right. He would wake up every night – sometime a few times – to make sure everything was alright with them. This personal anecdote isn’t meant to be anything more than what it is – a personal anecdote.
I’m an Indian vegetarian but what kills me about how we do vegetarianism and animal rights in India is that we put go-seva, go-raksha (cow service and cow protection), before the service and protection of human women.
The cow is go-mata but human-matas are fit to be burned, beaten and harrassed non-stop.
Not disagreeing w/ you Veggie Feminist (and hope I’m not feeding the artist formerly known as PG), but you might want to take a look at the ultradouche faction of PETA.
I have no objection to nudity.
14 脗路 DesiInNJ said
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blockquote>12 脗路 tevadi said
Plants are living organisms too. Talk to a passionate botanist.
Plants are living, that is obvious. They do not however, have the developed nervous system as do animals. They feel something, but not to the extent that animals do. Similarly, humans are higher up on the chain than animals, otherwise the argument for homicide could be made.
For Tayeb @ 77:
Be my guest–visit a mechanized slaughterhouse and, when (or if) you wake up from the nightmare of watching tens of cows being unloaded of their body parts in a passionless ‘dis-assembly chain’ manner within a matter of an hour, come and tell us all what you think of traditional methods in a comparative context.
All traditional methods be they kosher or halal or a plain, well-experienced stab to the heart of a piglet instill a one-on-one relationship and connectivity to the animal being killed, to the extent that the human is usually grateful and honors the life that is being killed to nourish his/her own species/family/self. Where uninformed people see a lack of ‘humanity’ in the actual act of killing, I see the essence of humanity. When condescending, sanctimonious (hardly non-beneficiaries in the absolute sense) people use unimaginative, facile words such as the ‘guilt’ of meat-eaters, I am inspired to write poetry that captures a whole range of complex, delicate thoughts and feelings unique to man. After all, as far as I know, the human being is the only species that is capable of empathizing with its own dinner. I’d rather experience that subtle contradiction than pretend to raise myself above all reproach.
go back and read my response to meena, camille. i said no such thing. i clearly stated that in my mind, even the worse case scenario include ethical treatment of animals that are being raised for meat. but back to the statement with which everybody is so shocked – it’s a thought that crosses my mind every single time this debate of ethical treatment of animals that are being raised for meat comes up. clearly, i am in the minority here, but most of those who disagree in this thread are also those who eat meat, so i can see how it would be hard to admit that eating meat is wrong. again, i have clearly said that i am for the humane treatment of animals – but it seems hypocritical to state that a person is so concerned about the welfare of these animals when he/she is not opposed to eating them. that was my basic point, and i still stand by it. yet, most commenters chose to understand this as being against humane treatment of the animals – apparently, even after i stated that i wasn’t. i have clearly touched a nerve here, and it makes me wonder why. however, seeing as few, or no, commenters agree with me, i shall not speak further on this topic.
ak, Please don’t not speak on this topic–it’s a really interesting one, I think, one that we still haven’t really “figured out” in a satisfying way–unlike many topics, on which there is now more or less either a consensus, or two or three plausible positions. This one is still very much up in the air, in terms of hard-core analysis. Personally, I, for example, hold the (I’m sure idiosyncratic) view that given high human populations, it’s a bit odd to oppose factory farming, in the sense that then only the rich could eat meat. But, I do recognize the (very real!) concerns about factory farming–so–I don’t really have a good answer. I grew up in a veg. family, and I don’t cook meat at home (though I cert. don’t deprive myself of the cornucopia of culinary delights (!) available at restaurants, and would even confess to (don’t tell moms!) serving my guests prosciutto with melon). 馃槈
My girlfriend wants me to eat her. Is that ethical?
Yup.
Thank you.
Signed, Jeffrey Dahmer
68 脗路 veggie might said
I see no connection between feminine hygiene products and arguments concerning animal welfare (outside of Ira Isaac’s portolio, i guess). I don’t agree with Singer and was surprised that no one had brought up his arguments in the context of this discussion.
truly it is brutal (and you get a better picture of this from reading anti-intensive farming books, especially if you are a meat-eater) but brutality is present in non-intensive farming as well. What is objectionable is the attitude that because the animal is being killed for food, and is the product of non-intensive farming methods, that the brutality (by subjective measure) disappears. It doesn’t. Every single method devised to quickly dispatch a food animal, involves some level of violence or cruel dynamic that some person would find excessive.
IMO, we no longer have rituals or even strong offal cuisine traditions to account for this ever-present brutality( unless you’re a snout-tail foodie or live outside the US)
ak, your tone suggests you are hurt. I don’t see why you should be hurt considering that people, including me, are giving you credit for usually being able to see nuances and all sides of the issue. I agree with your friend: there will be no universally-acceptable answers, especially since … well, I can write a series of academic papers on the complexities that include historical, political, economical, technological, anthropological, developmental issues, among others. On my part there is only a plea to understand the all-inclusive idea of our dependence on animals as a natural resource for the benefit of human development and, no one living on earth today can claim to be on higher moral grounds.
Let me help you feel less troubled about eating that chicken your mom cooked, the one you think was raised just for the benefit of your consumption. Well, think about it: if it weren’t for your need and ability to pay for it, that particular chicken would not even have had its brief, insignificant existence on this planet. Your consumption pattern resulted in its life. It is bizarre to think of it that way, but…You are troubled that an Angus is raised mainly for beef production? Well, “the average herd life of US Holsteins is today fewer than 3 lactations.” Let that milk-guzzling vegetarian see blood on his late-night ice cream snack (absolutely non-essential for human health). Where do you think the dairy cow ends up, after being raised solely to produce 9000kg of milk per year (essentially, a single unit milk factory) only for human consumption? But hey, despite heading for the knacker indiviually, the Holsteins collectively are in a better shape than the milking Devons and the Nandi dairy cows.
Do you have all the answers now? I don’t think so. But do you have more questions than before? I hope so.
i never really understood them. i don’t want someone telling me to eat meat (which happens all the time here), so why should i tell others to be vegetarian? respect me, i respect you. none of their demonstrations do anything but label veggies as crazy exhibitionists. blah!
Melbourne Desi: I’m Tamil “non-Brahmin” Hindu and can vouch for the fact that we have traditionally consumed meat (mostly chicken, fish, goat) even though we recognize the superior moral position of vegetarianism (a legacy of Jainism which was once quite popular in TN). But I have never heard of beef eating oustide of very Westernized wealthy Hindu families in TN…is this something that is traditional in the communities where you have seen it or a recent development?
Malathi, I read up on the links you provided about disappearing breeds…truly sad and alarming…such short-sighted policies on everyone’s part…
I also agree that the chicken that people are concerned about wouldn’t even be alive if it wasn’t for human consumption…there are only a few hundred thousand wolves (at most) in the world and millions upon millions of dogs…that’s the same analogy.. something humans value has reached enormous preponderance.
Anyway, I love ‘non-veg’ as the Indians say.
96 脗路 Malathi said
see: wrongful life and the repugnant conclusion.