I wrote a post this weekend which questioned certain commenters’ assertions regarding how “hot Desi girls seem to end up with White guysâ€. We discussed that misconception as well as…well, a few dozen other subjects, but that’s natural over the course of 1,349 comments. One sub-thread which I followed avidly involved I-bankers and their (for some) elusive prey: the skinny, hyper-maintained, hot brown girl with stick-straight hair.
Some of you compassionately responded to your banking brethren, when they plaintively admitted that they weren’t sure where to locate their loins’ fondest desire; instructions, right down to locations, days of the week and yes, auspicious times of day (yo, are we brown or are we BROWN) were offered and happily accepted. Much like the original exchange which inspired my post on interracial dating, which is where this comedy of heir-ers was going down, what I noticed was that these weren’t one-off sentiments. To me, that made them difficult to dismiss.
The one word which kept surfacing, repeatedly, insistently, was skinny.
Predictably, evolved mutineers were outraged and immediately broadcasted it; even more predictable than that, the obligatory, “I can’t help it, it’s just what ruins my boxersâ€- volley occurred, so that there was essentially a stalemate. Around skinny. While all of them pondered if it was okay to come out and say that “skinny†was a requirement, and whether such a requiring was nothing to be ashamed of, I was transfixed by something else which was related, but not discussed.
What did skinny mean in this context?
To some, Kate Moss defines skinny. To others, the woman who is pictured on our left qualifies.
I like to know exactly what I’m offended by, before I gift someone with a new orifice, so I couldn’t get my outrage-on– not until this question was answered. Yes, yes…we should all eschew superficial everything and it’s terrible that we’re judging female books by their covers, but it’s also a gross reality. And I wanted to know how realistic these I(yer) bankers were.
There was another snag—we were discussing Manhattan.
It’s a rarified world and understandably, the benchmarks are different. Everything is relative (and apparently, if you are an Iyengar reading SM, YOU are all relatives…oy, how I wish that I could actually link to relevant comments from MY OWN POST, which would make my attempts at wit successful vs. inscrutable).
In most cities, D.C. included, my 450 sq ft studio is tiny. In Manhattan, my friend is thrilled to have that much space for her ONE-BEDROOM. In most cities, making six figures is awesome. In Manhattan, it barely affords the afore-mentioned shoe-box, rent-wise and that’s if you limit your methods for self-intoxicating to PBR (note: life is too short for PBR, my darlinks). Anyway, if everything is tougher, better, more competitive, more expensive and more EVERYTHING in Manhattan, then…do brown guys expect brown girls to be skinnier, too? And does skinny mean fit? Or just skinny?
My guy friends (the unManhattanites, if you will…I’m not counting the Murray Hill dwellers et al for the purposes of this fluffy post) would line up giddily for a shot at the gorgeous girl above. Would our I(yengar) bankers? I think we have a bit of a vested interest in all this; the majority of the Desi vomen whom I am privileged to know are curvaceous, if they’re out of their teens. For most men, that’s a good thing. My male buddies don’t like straight lines—on the roads they’re about to break laws on or…uh…you know.
Curves are good. Right? Left? Those are definitely curves, on the left.
So, as I said memorably (and almost 1,700 comments ago!), out with it then. Let’s have the truth. What do you want? Is the woman I’ve wrapped this post around zaftig or is she just right? Err, left? You know what I mean. And this ain’t no heteronormative joint. I’ll be the first to tell you that she could inspire me to discover a love that dare not speak its naam. 😉 What about you?
::
isin’t that a picture of you ANNA?? or may be your sister?
While it easily could be, because my sister and I both have huge, bubble-like Malayalee kundis which resemble two coconuts attached to our lower back, and yes, apparently we also both have “thunder-thighs” like our helpful model above, no, it’s neither me nor my little sister.
I look exactly like that in jeans.
I am dismayed that some of you think that her thighs are ugly, but to each their own; we are attracted to what we are attracted to and that’s that. I bring this up not to call you out (S, you know you and labbie singh are my peeps), but to speak to the women who are lurking, who have body image issues. Because believe me, they are here and they are reading this. They inspired this.
I have no problems in NYC or SF or DC…guess my hatred-since-infancy of LA has protected me from an eating disorder, since I am a size 8, not a size 4, and that is too big for La-La land.
I like my body. I like it so much, I don’t give a shit about telling you the truth– I am 5’6″ and I weigh a whopping 148 lbs. I’ve gained weight, since hurting my leg, because I no longer get to walk the three miles home from work. To go from walking more than 20 miles a week to not being mobile at all…well, it takes a toll. I’ve gained eight pounds, which I can’t be fucked to cry over, because I’m more upset over losing lean mass and the ability to walk comfortably, without pain or this huge, heavy, unwieldy cast on my leg.
To the young woman whose email to me on Facebook inspired this entire post:
Please stop calling yourself “fat” and “ugly”. You look exactly like this picture, I know, because I went through your albums and found one taken at a similar angle. You don’t have luck with desi guys in NYC because of timing, circumstance or that nakshatram with the tree or whatever– NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE OBESE. When you kept reading about how guys like Puli et al want “skinny” desi girls, in the mega-thread, they were talking about you, my darling girl.
I proved this. I proved my point.
The majority of men on this thread think that the woman pictured above isn’t just beautiful but hot, gorgeous, attractive, ideal.
Please eat your lunch today. And your dinner. And work-out, but do so because your heart and lungs and future grandchildren deserve to be taken care of– you’re too precious to starve, especially at your own hands.
To quote you, “Shocker. Indian girls have eating disorders, too.”
Well, they shouldn’t have to– no human should. Eat. Be healthy. Fall in love with yourself. Life is too short for bullshit, and that goes for all of you.
Thunder thighed-Anna, over and out.
I never said that. I was just giving my opinion. And yes, when it comes to Monique level fatness, I do think sometimes if self worth gets mixed up with healthy attitudes. As far as your analogy, I would not go to Monique’s face and tell it to her face. But this thread is to elicit opinions and I gave mine. Besides, I would be afraid Monique would roll over me and crush me in anger if I did say something. And I did say more power to her if she can feel good about it. I gained weight in recent years and I am not proud of it. But at the same time, I will not be depressed by it so much that it interferes with my attitude towards life. And I will understand if my dating success goes down a little during this period. So more power to me if I can maintain a positive attitude while I am overweight. Similarly, more power to Monique if she can be happy. THat is what I meant. It doesn’t mean I can’t express my opinion in a blog.
Then how about we just agree no one buys drinks for anyone, after all they have no meaning, right, why make the alcohol manufacturers rich? Everyone should just go up and talk to each other to see if there’s any spark. All these “its just a drink” responses overlooks the manipulative aspect (however small it may be) behind it.
got it…dont buy drinks…check.
Totally. I always split, or at least offer to, until I know the person well enough to be confident that they don’t think it entitles them to anything. I’ve had guys throw that sort of thing in my face before and it sucks.
Fair enough, HMF, but when you’re in a bar that really is the accepted way of introducing yourself to someone. That’s just bar culture. If it really drives you crazy, why not look for other places to meet women? You can get into a great conversation at a used bookstore without feeling at all obligated to buy anyone a book…
See, but that statement right there just negates all the otherwise perfectly reasonable things you just said. Why did you feel the need to include it?
Hahahahah that just made me laugh out loud.
By the way you realize the money and power thing is such bullshit when you end up with the right person. Then it sort of doesn’t matter which pot it came from. Fucking rules.
Again: why? I’m actually asking out of curiosity. Why does it matter to you? Why is that person more noteworthy than everyone else on the street?
geez. maybe im too simple a guy. i dont think ive thought of any of these things when paying/not paying.
the same psychology that promps a whole classroom of elementary school students from pointing out the one kid thats diffrent than everyone else and laugh at them…
PindaUSA, I never thought the day would come when I would have to remind an Iyengar-banker of these three little letters/words: R O I.
As for drink buying, hedge your bets. Don’t put all your stock in one strategy.
A big true dat, JOAT. Although, if someone brought me a gift on the first date (and I’d never met them before), I would be a bit uncomfortable.
chutney, absolutely not. If I get the impression that a guy is buying me a drink to buy my time (and such an advance is not welcome), I politely decline the drink. That said, if he just wants to say hello, why not? No harm in chatting with someone. That said, I don’t feel obligated to spend an unordinary amount of time with someone because of it.
Thank you!
and i can think of at least 20 that would. when i was in college, i was overweight (absolutely, and relative to my frame) and desi guys wouldn’t even give me the time of day. and in many cases, it was very clear that my weight was the issue. once i lost that weight, those exact same guys were all of a sudden telling me how great/pretty i looked, and the only thing that had changed was my weight. in fact, i thought my weight ‘issue’ was actually an issue amongst the desi community, and most of the girls in my college were ultra-skinny; there was an explicit image that girls in that group had to conform to to be considered even attractive, much less hot, and much of that had to do with size. perhaps it depends on the social circles we inhabit, but i don’t think my situation was atypical.
HMF @ #487, yes.
Yeah, I know. I get uncomfortable when I am too reasonable. Sorry. but then this sense of humor runs in my family. We were out bowling and I was frustrating him with my directives to stay in control in the bowling alley. I had a lil nephew who told me that he would cut off my buzzed head and use it during his turn . Instead of getting pissed, I had to laugh at such a comment because I thought it was creative.
thast really the trick. i dont really view women as commodities im buying and selling…..although dynamic hedging girls is a nice idea now that i think about it…
Haven’t seen too many thin straight haired hot i banker chasing women hang out there.
Well, a lot of times people don’t really meet the rightest person in the world and so they start throwing in the practicalities. Thus the BS does become a factor. Sigh!
Jeez. A guy can’t catch a break around here 🙂 The strategy is drink buying, and the hedging is for the strategy. You’re as thick as … well, pick your favorite example from the comments above.
although dynamic hedging girls is a nice idea now that i think about it…
? are you serious? LOTS OF GUYS have very specific optimizing strategies, and i’ve seen how quick the yield can be in “payoff.” it’s shocking. if you don’t get in the game you’ll be left behind my friend.
(the optimizing strategies are necessary for the nerdy cases, my manifestly good looking male friends with height, toning and a non-loser career never have to make recourse to such “tricks.” but perhaps you are one of the latter case)
sarah, this was hilarious. I’m imagining all the locations where I’ve met someone (not a bar) and what they would “buy” to say hello. Like going to the grocery store and someone buying you brown rice or something.
Oh, and chutney, I always offer to split, especially in the beginning. Just like with my friends, I’m more comfortable letting someone pick up the bill because I know it will even out in the end (usually someone buys coffee one time, another person buys movie tix, etc.). I’m also a big fan of finding “affordable” alternatives (i.e. not super expensive, pricey, difficult dates). I don’t think the calculus is all that important, but I don’t like feeling like someone is paying to hang out with me.
Me too, ak. really it’s about finding someone who clicks with you regardless of this. I think the experience you described would just reemphasize why I hadn’t engaged in dating with those guys earlier.
Please, I’m glad you’re ‘not against’ women buying guys drinks. Haley’s comet will zip around earth 200 times before it actually happens to the same extent though. Until then, a male buying a female a drink in a bar, will always come with it connotations that exceed “just introducing oneself”
You’re preaching to the choir. Go forth and instruct your female minions.
Now that is funny.
I will actually take back that comment because it did not come out the way I meant it. I do not make it a habit to comment on most fat strangers I see in public. It’s only if she is trying to make a move on one of us, and doesn’t take the hint, and maybe then, if she annoys us, then we start looking at superficial things to comment on. And even then, it is not right at her. Now even this may not be good behavior, but at least it is what I really meant by that reckless statement I made earlier. I just wanted to make it clear that I do not make fun of fat people because they exist for my visual comedy entertainment. Unless she wears a thong that is exposed in public or clothes that are too tight for her own good. THen maybe I misbehave and will snicker behind her back with my friends.
After analyzing that pic..pixel by pixel, I here by declare.. she is HOT with extra T
Hee hee! Hell, I’m a food blogger, that’d probably work on me!
Sure. We live in an unequal society, and these sorts of things will change when society changes. Until then, though, why not keep trying to subvert the inequalities in pleasant little ways like buying a guy a drink? Usually, he’s either appalled by your forwardness or thinks you’re the coolest person he’s ever met– you learn a bit about him very quickly, you know?
one of the biggest problems with terming a woman like the one in the photo “fat” is that it totally takes the spotlight of genuine obesity, and the fact that most people aren’t fans nor is it the healthiest. there’s a reason that my friends from asian countries in college would rudely snap photos of “fat americans” when they went to disneyland (along with pick up trucks, etc.). the level of morbid obesity in american society is incredible (though developing and asian nations are starting to catch up), though there are some differences by region and class and race. when i was in college the oldest building on campus was for math, and it had 5 floors. the stairs were too narrow for some fat people insofar as people going up or down would have to wait at one level as the fat person made it down. obviously when the building was built (late 1800s) this would have been rare enough an occurrence that no one considered it. but when i had a class on the 4th or 5th floor i probably had to wait at least every other day.
the emphasis on “skinny” is wrong on so many levels. but as a counter reaction we can’t forget the health and self esteem costs of obesity. our society is pretty messed up as we hurtle toward a larger & larger minority being obese while the “ideal weight” remains unattainable for most. who knows how many people have just “given up” because they couldn’t attained the ideal and become obese?
Oh man, I vote for that as the next blog topic — great food blogs online. I just found the Fat Free Vegan blog, and I love it. It definitely beats my “I am too lazy to make something good, so I will make a rice & beans mix thing” standby.
p.s. re: media. get rid of your TV 😉 it gives you much more power of the means of production.
oops..it should have been..she is HOT with an extra T
Razib, I think this is a really important question. There’s no doubt that obesity is a serious public health concern. I think the problem is that we as a society are handling it by shaming individual obese people and putting an unhealthy emphasis on skinniness, rather than questioning what’s happening to our food supply and our foodways that is causing so many people to develop weight problems and related illnesses like diabetes. Instead of ragging on fat people, we should be demanding foods made without unnecessary high fructose corn syrup, and asking why poor neighborhoods don’t have access to fresh produce!
Hmm, I feel a blog post coming on…
I’m all for it. Godspeed.
Amen, sister! A friend of mine just recently cut out processed sugar from her diet, and she said the difference in how she feels is amazing. When you start checking your food, it’s almost impossible to find something that hasn’t been supplemented, pumped with hormones, or filled with high fructose corn syrup. For me this has meant prepping and making a much larger proportion of my food from scratch, but realistically there isn’t always time for that. It just seems crazy that we can’t get decent, nutritious food without putting in an above-ordinary effort.
I think the problem is that we as a society are handling it by shaming individual obese people and putting an unhealthy emphasis on skinniness, rather than questioning what’s happening to our food supply and our foodways that is causing so many people to develop weight problems and related illnesses like diabetes.
well, this is a complex question. but one thing i really have to ask: who is doing the shaming in classes where most of the kids are fat? when i was kid in the 80s there was the fat kid, or the fat kids (mebee 2 or 3) in a class. but today i’ve seen grade schoolers and you have enormous clusters of fatitude.
there’s a lot of schizophrenic attitudes and it is really hard to tease apart.
It just seems crazy that we can’t get decent, nutritious food without putting in an above-ordinary effort.
or $$$. economies of scale work with the cheap processed manufactured foods, so if you want volume that’s what you get. but yeah, cooking takes time. and if you don’t want crap food, you better be willing to pay for it.
sarah, I completely agree with the food supply problems, but the very recent study seems to have the fundamentally troubling (to us non judgmental liberal PC folks) implication that social engineering plays a big part. Now this absolutely does not mean mocking or demeaning fat people, but it also means that fighting obesity might require a greater emphasis on personal will and, let’s face it, a little bit of “judgment” about fatness.
Cupid’s sweetly poisonous dart Has deftly pierced my dhadking heart In your presence, my recalcitrant dil Fevered and fervid, will not stay still
Insensible, guileless, and bereft of all my feminine art I swear liquor tantalizes better when sipped with this tart
😛
Camille, food blogs is a great idea. I like this one: Mahanandi’s blog. She’s got some cookbook reviews too.
510 · Rahul As for drink buying, hedge your bets. Don’t put all your stock in one strategy.
I will implement a radomized strategy and report back results in a week or so. The definition of “success” will be set low–getting (real) #.
Now this absolutely does not mean mocking or demeaning fat people, but it also means that fighting obesity might require a greater emphasis on personal will and, let’s face it, a little bit of “judgment” about fatness.
rule of thumb for me: if you aren’t hungry for an non-trivial portion of the day you’re eating too much. it isn’t “normal” to feel sated all day. anyway, that is my “biggest insight” over the years of swinging in weight.
Is there another 1st generation parent here? Can you hear me when I think is this what I have to worry about in 10, 15, 20 years from now? After everything I saw and lived and put up with or tried to run away from (in the 3rd world and personally, also in the 2nd world as well as in the 1st world visa/immigration offices) are body image issues going to be my children’s concerns? Yesterday, I was merely amused that I couldn’t relate to and understand the degree of importance given to hair, makeup, style, fashion, etc. But today, I am a little less amused and a little more alarmed.
Please someone tell me this is a biased sample. If not, at least tell me there is an upper age when concerns such as these will cease, because until such age I am outsourcing parenting or shipping all of us off to Timbuctoo. But if we stay in this part of the world, then my family is only going to socialize with large-animal/farm veterinarians–people who mostly wear baggy, green overalls to work and have only dairy cows and farmers to impress.
weather or not this becomes an issue for your kids at least partially depends on how you raise them. i think. it is something you need to bear in mind though.
although i am a second gen wise ass kid.
…if you aren’t hungry for an non-trivial portion of the day you’re…
whats non-trivial? 1 hour? 3 hours? 6 hours?
I will implement a radomized strategy and report back results in a week or so. Try picking the second-most exciting stock in any stock cluster.
As for drink buying, hedge your bets. Don’t put all your stock in one strategy. Invest early and invest often. Dollar cost averaging has been proven to return better results in the long-term.
And how does this drink buying thing work for people who are gay/lesbian?
I’m sure you’ve all seen this by now, but this one is generally good for healthy meals from scratch: http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F60F17FA3C550C7B8DDDAE0894DF404482 And once you start cooking on a regular basis, it can become deeply meditative and takes almost the same amount of time as ordering out. Of course, I don’t cook for a family or for fussy kids, so what do I know?
whats non-trivial? 1 hour? 3 hours? 6 hours?
my own exp. is what i get “hungry” it lasts for about and hour. then i fades and i generally don’t get hungry ’till before my next meal. i don’t drink juices or snack anymore, which i would do to sate little hunger. but people differ in terms of how much they can control their hunger or ignore it. it isn’t hard for me, but i know people who just can’t focus. so they have to eat, if they don’t want to enter into fatitude they better work out.
You might also want to start using organic ingredients to the level possible. Refined sugars and chemical additives are given you to you free of cost when you buy groceries at most places.
you need to worry that your kid ends up warped out like me. BE AFRAID….BE VERY AFRAID…
538 · malathi … are body image issues going to be my children’s concerns?
If my family is at all respresentative–yes.
Ive heard organic is better for the environment, not necessarily the person.
ive heard its worse for both. what do i know though….
Ive heard organic is better for the environment, not necessarily the person.
the bigger issue is that ‘organic’ products to be more likely to operate outside the food chain of manufactured/processed goods. whether it is qualitatively nutritionally better for you (most scientists are skeptical aside from cases like people who are hyper-allergenic and might have severe reactions to many additives) or the environment (sometimes organics need a lot more land to produce the same output, though the trade off is that they aren’t using chemical [petrol derived] fertilizers) is debatable. the main thing is that most people who i know can afford organic do purchase it for a variety of reasons (even republicans). but the cost issue is a major one for a lot of americans.