I wrote a post this weekend which questioned certain commenters’ assertions regarding how “hot Desi girls seem to end up with White guysâ€. We discussed that misconception as well as…well, a few dozen other subjects, but that’s natural over the course of 1,349 comments. One sub-thread which I followed avidly involved I-bankers and their (for some) elusive prey: the skinny, hyper-maintained, hot brown girl with stick-straight hair.
Some of you compassionately responded to your banking brethren, when they plaintively admitted that they weren’t sure where to locate their loins’ fondest desire; instructions, right down to locations, days of the week and yes, auspicious times of day (yo, are we brown or are we BROWN) were offered and happily accepted. Much like the original exchange which inspired my post on interracial dating, which is where this comedy of heir-ers was going down, what I noticed was that these weren’t one-off sentiments. To me, that made them difficult to dismiss.
The one word which kept surfacing, repeatedly, insistently, was skinny.
Predictably, evolved mutineers were outraged and immediately broadcasted it; even more predictable than that, the obligatory, “I can’t help it, it’s just what ruins my boxersâ€- volley occurred, so that there was essentially a stalemate. Around skinny. While all of them pondered if it was okay to come out and say that “skinny†was a requirement, and whether such a requiring was nothing to be ashamed of, I was transfixed by something else which was related, but not discussed.
What did skinny mean in this context?
To some, Kate Moss defines skinny. To others, the woman who is pictured on our left qualifies.
I like to know exactly what I’m offended by, before I gift someone with a new orifice, so I couldn’t get my outrage-on– not until this question was answered. Yes, yes…we should all eschew superficial everything and it’s terrible that we’re judging female books by their covers, but it’s also a gross reality. And I wanted to know how realistic these I(yer) bankers were.
There was another snag—we were discussing Manhattan.
It’s a rarified world and understandably, the benchmarks are different. Everything is relative (and apparently, if you are an Iyengar reading SM, YOU are all relatives…oy, how I wish that I could actually link to relevant comments from MY OWN POST, which would make my attempts at wit successful vs. inscrutable).
In most cities, D.C. included, my 450 sq ft studio is tiny. In Manhattan, my friend is thrilled to have that much space for her ONE-BEDROOM. In most cities, making six figures is awesome. In Manhattan, it barely affords the afore-mentioned shoe-box, rent-wise and that’s if you limit your methods for self-intoxicating to PBR (note: life is too short for PBR, my darlinks). Anyway, if everything is tougher, better, more competitive, more expensive and more EVERYTHING in Manhattan, then…do brown guys expect brown girls to be skinnier, too? And does skinny mean fit? Or just skinny?
My guy friends (the unManhattanites, if you will…I’m not counting the Murray Hill dwellers et al for the purposes of this fluffy post) would line up giddily for a shot at the gorgeous girl above. Would our I(yengar) bankers? I think we have a bit of a vested interest in all this; the majority of the Desi vomen whom I am privileged to know are curvaceous, if they’re out of their teens. For most men, that’s a good thing. My male buddies don’t like straight lines—on the roads they’re about to break laws on or…uh…you know.
Curves are good. Right? Left? Those are definitely curves, on the left.
So, as I said memorably (and almost 1,700 comments ago!), out with it then. Let’s have the truth. What do you want? Is the woman I’ve wrapped this post around zaftig or is she just right? Err, left? You know what I mean. And this ain’t no heteronormative joint. I’ll be the first to tell you that she could inspire me to discover a love that dare not speak its naam. 😉 What about you?
::
isin’t that a picture of you ANNA?? or may be your sister?
While it easily could be, because my sister and I both have huge, bubble-like Malayalee kundis which resemble two coconuts attached to our lower back, and yes, apparently we also both have “thunder-thighs” like our helpful model above, no, it’s neither me nor my little sister.
I look exactly like that in jeans.
I am dismayed that some of you think that her thighs are ugly, but to each their own; we are attracted to what we are attracted to and that’s that. I bring this up not to call you out (S, you know you and labbie singh are my peeps), but to speak to the women who are lurking, who have body image issues. Because believe me, they are here and they are reading this. They inspired this.
I have no problems in NYC or SF or DC…guess my hatred-since-infancy of LA has protected me from an eating disorder, since I am a size 8, not a size 4, and that is too big for La-La land.
I like my body. I like it so much, I don’t give a shit about telling you the truth– I am 5’6″ and I weigh a whopping 148 lbs. I’ve gained weight, since hurting my leg, because I no longer get to walk the three miles home from work. To go from walking more than 20 miles a week to not being mobile at all…well, it takes a toll. I’ve gained eight pounds, which I can’t be fucked to cry over, because I’m more upset over losing lean mass and the ability to walk comfortably, without pain or this huge, heavy, unwieldy cast on my leg.
To the young woman whose email to me on Facebook inspired this entire post:
Please stop calling yourself “fat” and “ugly”. You look exactly like this picture, I know, because I went through your albums and found one taken at a similar angle. You don’t have luck with desi guys in NYC because of timing, circumstance or that nakshatram with the tree or whatever– NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE OBESE. When you kept reading about how guys like Puli et al want “skinny” desi girls, in the mega-thread, they were talking about you, my darling girl.
I proved this. I proved my point.
The majority of men on this thread think that the woman pictured above isn’t just beautiful but hot, gorgeous, attractive, ideal.
Please eat your lunch today. And your dinner. And work-out, but do so because your heart and lungs and future grandchildren deserve to be taken care of– you’re too precious to starve, especially at your own hands.
To quote you, “Shocker. Indian girls have eating disorders, too.”
Well, they shouldn’t have to– no human should. Eat. Be healthy. Fall in love with yourself. Life is too short for bullshit, and that goes for all of you.
Thunder thighed-Anna, over and out.
I’m going to start throwing Xanax at the lot of you– CHILL. Be nice to each other or I’ll hit you with the cane I’m about to borrow from one of you, who just recovered from HER ankle injury.
(As you prepare to flame me for the above statement, always keep in mind that comments are being deleted, some before you got to see them, possibly…)
🙂
apologize if somebody asked this question already, isin’t that a picture of you ANNA?? or may be your sister?
I saw 2 minutes of it. Sometimes I think the african American community overdo the whole ass thing. Sometimes a big ole ass is just a big ole ass and not “curvy”. More like lumpy and blobby. And fat women in general overdo the whole DIVA thing. If she feels good about herself , more power to her. It doesn’t change my mind that she would be gross to sleep with. There is nothing to be proud of when it comes to being obese. Though I am not against someone acknowledging it and doing the best with what you got.
wtf does it matter whether she looks skinny? especially BEYONCE? why? how does this really effect anyones life whatsoever except to make someone, and inevitably, everyone feel that they are too fat? sepia, please.
can we all just take a deep breath, look in the mirror, and say “i love myself just the way i am.”
on top of ocmpetition, part of that is also cultural. a lot of the guys that move t o nyc do so for “fun when theyre young”. they aint lookin for a long term relationship.
You know HMF when a girl likes and is attracted to a guy all those ridiculous (not always) rules that she makes up in her head about what she wants and doesn’t want go out the door. A guy who didn’t press the right button on her no matter what he does is doomed to fail. I had a wideass list of things I wanted in my perfect man. Not only did I get more than I asked for but I didn’t get half the things I originally asked for. Please that list went down the toilet the minute I realized he was the one. I spent my entire 20s in angst trying to come up with that fucking list and I broke all the rules of that stupid list when I got googly eyed.
How do you explain so many otherwise perfectly normal women dating complete jerks? It’s the buttons.
Shalu #446, I don’t understand.
PindaUSA, maybe you should go out with HMF, because he seems to be more on top of the drink exchange dynamics of society (a good wingman will refer you to other authorities on subjects outside their specialization). Me, I am the old fashioned bajji-kaapi type.
Well based on some of the comments in this thread, I am not alone in my thinking. If you’d like me to rephrase, I’d be happy to – her hips/ass are too wide for my tastes. This thread was to elicit personal opinions, right?
this is why i heart rahul. i’ll totally buy you a drink next time, if you make a feynman pact with me.
HMF is a he? my mental image of most of these people is completely off…
While it easily could be, because my sister and I both have huge, bubble-like Malayalee kundis which resemble two coconuts attached to our lower back, and yes, apparently we also both have “thunder-thighs” like our helpful model above, no, it’s neither me nor my little sister.
I look exactly like that in jeans.
I am dismayed that some of you think that her thighs are ugly, but to each their own; we are attracted to what we are attracted to and that’s that. I bring this up not to call you out (S, you know you and labbie singh are my peeps), but to speak to the women who are lurking, who have body image issues. Because believe me, they are here and they are reading this. They inspired this.
I have no problems in NYC or SF or DC…guess my hatred-since-infancy of LA has protected me from an eating disorder, since I am a size 8, not a size 4, and that is too big for La-La land.
I like my body. I like it so much, I don’t give a shit about telling you the truth– I am 5’6″ and I weigh a whopping 148 lbs. I’ve gained weight, since hurting my leg, because I no longer get to walk the three miles home from work. To go from walking more than 20 miles a week to not being mobile at all…well, it takes a toll. I’ve gained eight pounds, which I can’t be fucked to cry over, because I’m more upset over losing lean mass and the ability to walk comfortably, without pain or this huge, heavy, unwieldy cast on my leg.
To the young woman whose email to me on Facebook inspired this entire post:
Please stop calling yourself “fat” and “ugly”. You look exactly like this picture, I know, because I went through your albums and found one taken at a similar angle. You don’t have luck with desi guys in NYC because of timing, circumstance or that nakshatram with the tree or whatever– NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE OBESE. When you kept reading about how guys like Puli et al want “skinny” desi girls, in the mega-thread, they were talking about you, my darling girl.
I proved this. I proved my point.
The majority of men on this thread think that the woman pictured above isn’t just beautiful but hot, gorgeous, attractive, ideal.
Please eat your lunch today. And your dinner. And work-out, but do so because your heart and lungs and future grandchildren deserve to be taken care of– you’re too precious to starve, especially at your own hands.
To quote you, “Shocker. Indian girls have eating disorders, too.”
Well, they shouldn’t have to– no human should. Eat. Be healthy. Fall in love with yourself. Life is too short for bullshit, and that goes for all of you.
Thunder thighed-Anna, over and out.
Wow — when did this site get so anti-iBanking– haha some of us are normal 🙂
I thought so, but after this, who knows?
it’s hard! it’s usually.. yeah i love myself. fug i need to drop a few pounds.
yes 🙂
but they still don’t think it’s odd to be with a woman whose body type is wholly dissimilar to theirs. i.e. slim/lean build guys do not necessarily go for woman of similar, or smaller, build.
Rahul said:
Sorry Rahul, “BWAH!!” is the sound I make when I laugh so hard it all comes out as one big sound.
=)
I thought that was obvious, I mean, I do make sense once in a while. heh.
Exactly, but lets be honest, “what a girl is attracted to” is a time varying function, as you corroborated. And yes there is no one save-all combination guaranteed to work all the time, but there are trends. Same was ther are for women, for example, most women will wear lipstick and not staple a dead hyena to their armpits, for the purposes of looking attractive. Same way for guys, there are certain things a guy can do, if he’s not a naturally “hottie” to make women open up to them more.
Surely you’re joking, Ms. Portmanteau? But do drinks come with tarts?
I’m a little confused by this post. It’s bothering people that men are saying they have particular types of women that they like (skinny) and women are finding it disturbing to feel judged and inadequate based on these men’s opinions? So, the solution is to post a headless picture of a woman’s body and then invite evaluations of her – very definitely objectifying her and spawning a discussion of the relative attractiveness of her parts? Also, no offense, but who cares what “I-bankers” think? Are they the arbiters of all that is tasteful and attractive in the world. Never stress yourself out over why you don’t fit someone else’s stereotype of “beauty”. Just find the guy that thinks you’re hot. No one else’s opinion matters in the end.
you had me at bubble…..
Then read my last comment, because I’m sick of explaining it and my decision to write it.
BTW, this is your assumption!
thats cause they want to breath deep while someone else loves them. not that breathing deep while they love them selves is nessicarily bad….
Right on Anna. I second that with all my heart. When I watch mom’s fussing over how much their daughters are eating (only seen this in India) it breaks my heart because our girls are malnourished and need love and attention and food just as our boys.
To what you wrote I’d add this. If you love your body, respect it, treat it well and keep it healthy without getting fixated on a size you will find a man who will love it too. I promise you.
And please for crying out loud I’d kill for your thighs and more importantly those damn unending legs.
I’ve read every entry in this post and the consensus seems to be that men like all different types of women, and women just need to find the type of men that love them for who they are.
Hmm…guess mom had it right all along. 😉
You people can have your revenge when they try and go public.
Anna,
Your latest post nearly had me in tears. You’re absolutely right.
Aparna
How do you explain so many otherwise perfectly normal women dating complete jerks? It’s the buttons.
8 inches?
Firstly, Pondatti, I love you. Secondly, I disagree with Saira. A pencil kitten heel can make your thighs look heavier, but a pencil stiletto looks great on most women if you make sure the heel is high enough (2″ or taller), especially if you pair it with a more “contained” or classic style (e.g. the pump/peeptoe). Conversely, an overly clunky high heel can weigh down (the appearance of) your leg as well.
My fam is pretty good at doing this for Gujarat on up 🙂 That said, I think there’s a lot of internal variation, so it’s usually a game of “guess the region” instead of “guess the state.”
ak, (this was ak’s question, right?), we have a curled hard “R.” Sometimes it sounds like an “L” depending on the dialect. I’m not sure if this is like the sound that folks described b/c I’ve never heard it in Tamil.
Please! We are fun whether you’re dancing or not. The best part is that no one will judge you for being a bad dancer, either, and if they do they shouldn’t be at the party 🙂
Rahul, totally agreed. There is such a thing as over-analyzation, folks.
Lastly, Puli, I’m sorry someone posted your profile, but I don’t think many folks saw it. I was going to say, if you are actually really excited about the dating thing, you should consider putting out an APB to your (married) friends. They’ve gotta have single friends, right?
ANNA, i think she looks fine (in both senses of the word), but i also don’t think those jeans are doing her much justice. if this is who i think it is, she puts a huge emphasis on muscle tone – and she looks hotter, at this same size, in a bikini because her muscle tone is obvious. thanks (to camille, as well) for the emphasis on muscle mass; i hate it when i can’t see or feel my muscles..
silly rahul, tarts come for drinks!
HMF, i see your point about the misperceptions (or not) about those initial stages. even though i never think much of it, it complicates things when the other does.
You give women no credit.
Nor yourself
I love living in O.L. because it’s nothing like the world you describe and subscribe to.
Thanks, Rupadi. 🙂
That’s my point. We’re putting down a lot of women when we put down thighs like these– and some of them are going to deny themselves food or throw it back up, because of it. I’m sick of the airbrushing, the manipulation, the unrealistic standards…all of it.
And for what? You like my thighs, I like my thighs. They’re good thighs. They take me places and they lift this heavy cast so I can trudge very slowly. They do what they’re supposed to, even if they are what some consider big. We need to recalibrate this shit. Healthy and normal does not = “big” or “fat” or “thunder”.
in regards to DRINK BUYING, as a girl, yes its awesome when guys buy you a draank (other than akon), however do other girls feel obligated to spend your time w/ that guy, b/c i sure as hell do. When you’re at a club, i understand ‘buying a drink’ is basically a way for guys to introduce themselves to girls, but at the same time, when someone buys me a drink, i feel responsible enough to buy them a drink back…making it fairly even. “i dont want to feel obligated to talk to u just b/c u bought me a drink.” perhaps i’m the type of person who’s very independent…even when inebriated. =}
yup, all guys need something to hang on too while….
ANNA said:
Word.
thanks for answering. can you give me an example of a few words?
Then you prove my point, drink buying is unnecessary at best, and extremely supplicant at worst. And no one ever “thinks of it” in a consciouss-sense, its usually instantaenous, the same way a male’s reaction to a fems body is instantaenous
It’s unfortunate what we find pleasing to the touch and pleasing to the eye are seldom the same.
the drink-buying can also go hand-in hand w/ buying dinner. Do girls every offer to pay for dinner on dates? or perhaps even split it? Maybe i just dont like being indebted to someone else. anyone in the same boat w/ me?
i find it attractive if a grl offers to split.
Are you familiar with the concept of exaggeration.
I think you missed something, I don’t buy drinks, because indeed I do think of myself as someone worth spending time around without spending money.
I think it’s just asking for a few moments of conversation to see if there’s any spark. What’s wrong with that? And for the record, I’m all for women buying men drinks as well.
This is really… ugh. Wait, so African Americans should rethink their cultural beauty standards because you think it’s gross? No. Also, if you aren’t attracted to someone, why not keep it to yourself? Men seem to LOVE to tell big women exactly why they are much too gross and disgusting to ever sleep with. Now, I’m pretty grossed out by the idea of sleeping with, say, an 80-year-old man, but I don’t feel the need to walk up to 80-year-old men and TELL them they’re unattractive to me. He doesn’t exist for my pleasure any more than fat women (or any women) exist for yours. You’re saying ‘more power to her’ and also propagating the attitude that robs such women of power… what gives?
Why shouldn’t women be proud of who they are? Should women who reach a certain weight/height ratio be publicly shamed instead of celebrated? Mo’Nique’s approach is empowering because fat women are doubly oppressed– as women, and as fat people. (And, of course, fat women of color get oppressed on a racist basis as well.) They are denied jobs (ever had a fat waitress? thought not), harassed on the streets, and constantly told that they are disgusting and gross and what’s wrong with America. (And no, it doesn’t matter if it’s because of a serious medical condition, just plain genetics, or your eating/exercise habits. People don’t bother getting to know you before they dismiss your mind, heart and body because of the shape of your ass.) The ‘diva’ attitude is a way of reclaiming pride, self-esteem and sexuality in the face of a culture that would deny it to you.
Thank you, ANNA!
I do not know what world many of you live in. Even those who find this lady the right size seem to know people who could find this woman fat. Seriously, while I took part in this thread in the spirit of the topic, one thing I did not bother to address was the actual picture in the entry. Why? Because it was so ridiculous to even discuss it. To think such a woman would elicit “fat” comments in real life if she walked by you. I do not know a single one of my friends who would look at her and think “she would be nice to go out with if she lost 20 pounds”. And I say this as someone who is not shy about pointing out how fat someone is with my friends when we spot a fat person. So I am no exactly Mr. PC. Even a friend of mine who is into skinnier chicks than that lady would not even think of making a fat comment about someone of that size.
I think it would have been better if Anna put a picture of someone actually chubby (but not fat) who would elicit a possible mixed response. Put up a picture of Sridevi in her younger days and tell me if she is too bottom heavy for some of you. http://www.bollywood501.com/classic_f/sridevi/pic/05.jpg
Chutney,
To address both your question. No relationship even if it’s with a stranger in a bar for 20 minutes while having a drink, should be based on “obligation”. If you feel obligated to return a favor it means you dislike the person but are pressuring yourself to do something you rather not. All the more reason to walk away.
Really it’s ok. A drink or a dinner doesn’t cost as much as hurt and anger from someone who continues to lead you on even when they aren’t interested.
Learn to say thank you and move on. Don’t feel obligated to talk to someone if you dislike them or don’t see any potential. And I always offered to pay and very rarely had a guy take that offer.
my 2 cents on the actual post… as per preferences fat/skinnny arent words that i really consider to be strong words in my vocab. instead i prefer healthy and unhealthy. TO MY EYE, the girl above is very healthy…more props to her! again, this is a personal preference and as we all can see, very subjective to ones’ own view. she’s got childbearing hips…and to a guy, that should be enough for anyone, as it was back in the day of Raja’s and Rani’s. childbearing hips –> lots of progeny–> marriage/ or straight to the pow-chicka-pow-wow.
1) i don’t think weight is a linear predictor of looks (in the eyes of others) and health (proportionally or inverse proportionally). there’s a “sweet spot” range i think for most people. obesity/fatness isn’t good for you, but neither is extreme skinniness. the major problem that the media and culture have is that their sweet spot is “shifted over.” a typical human probably has their own natural range of thinness to plumpness, but you don’t see the grotesque fatness that is common in the USA in pre-modern conditions, and the extreme skinniness associated with waifs is generally due to famine conditions. neither should be glorified.
2) people differ in their ‘ideal’ and ‘healthy’ optimum. i have a thin frame. my doctors think i’m fine because of my height and weight, but i know i should loose about 10 pounds. it doesn’t matter what my BMI is. i think most people intuitively know this. we’re all packaged and built differently. nurses always do a double take when they see my gf’s weight because she weighs in at higher than you would “expect,” but that has to be do to her density/packaging (i’m probably the reverse, i weigh in as a bit lighter than i should i think for my size).
3) it is easy to say that you should love yourself, but that is really hard when others won’t, right? being alone sucks for a lot of people.
i know a lot of guys whose anaconda dont want none unless you’ve got buns hun….
Dang, I just can’t seem to get it right! No wonder I have to settle for sitting in front of a computer all day giving out my credit card number to Russian sites.
thats how a civilized human would make the point i was trying to make earlier…
max_respeck!