…because according to some commenters, apparently, it isn’t. Suddenly there are commentS about hot Desi girls choosing white guys over their own— and I emphasize the plural aspect of “comment”, because that’s what caught my attention– this wasn’t some one-off virtual rant. Frankly, Mr. Shankly, I’m shocked. While some of the people who are leaving the eyebrow-raising statements seem to be new, I’m fully aware that the normal pattern of Sepia engagement is:
Random Googling –> Sepia? What the-? –> Hmmm, interesting –> Lurking –> and then finally, posting.
If these anti-miscegenation fans have followed that tried-and-true process, then they’d be aware that there are more than a few members of the Mutiny community who are the products of interracial unions; I can’t imagine that they’d be so tactless as to disparage such pairings when they reflect someone like Siddhartha, Desidancer or SemiDesiMasala’s ancestry.
So, maybe these are just mischief-instigating trolls, having some wicked fun via drive-by hate-spewing.
Or are they?
I think there’s more to this– and that’s why I’m publishing this post. Let’s have it out, then. Some of you seem to be in the mood to REALLY tell us what you think, so here’s your deluxe chance. Almost everyone here is anonymous. 🙂 It’s safe to be honest.
The following comments were left on my post about a woman named Aarti being chosen as one of the cuter people on the Hill:
hillside: Also I’ve never dated an Indian girl either, probably partly because so many of the hot ones like the two on this list are into white dudes. [sm]
Sheetal: (referring to comment above)
I’ve noticed this too. What is up with that? [sm]
Sheetal followed that comment by excerpting the following portion of the Hill article, making sure to highlight certain significant words by “bolding” them.
Skipper is a native of Chicago but both parents are from India — something that had worried her when it came to the issue of marriage. The handsome man in church soon became her boyfriend, but he was American and Caucasian, far from what she thought her parents would ever accept.
Okay, loud and clear. Jamie Skipper is Desi and she married a Caucasian (never mind that Desis are Caucasian, too). Yet another commenter seemed to agree with hillside and Sheetal:
Kannan: its interesting that you bring this up..We have parallels with the asian community. I’ve heard/seen that before. Hot lil Korean spinner would rather hook up with tall lanky white dude than someone from her race and its kind of common because I know a lot of my asian brothers who want to date from their race gripe and bitch about it:) Its almost like an invisible social hierarchy And the same goes for desi guys, I have a lot of friends who date white girls just because they think it brings them more social value” Look at me FOB minority guy pulling from the majority race” However for me its never really been race, its whether I was attracted to the person or not and it so happens I have never gone brown 🙂 [sm]
Kannan, I think your final sentence encapsulates how most of us feel, but that doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t explore the other sentiments I’ve highlighted.
SM is at its best when we are honestly, openly and sometimes painfully hashing out the issues that our community/others refuse to acknowledge or discuss; I didn’t put this post up in order to invite you to pillory “hillside” and “Sheetal”. They weren’t abusive, they were blunt. I wrote this post because I wanted to know how the rest of you felt. The thing is, I am almost certain that they aren’t alone and that more of you agree with them than we realize. Maybe it’s time to call ourselves out.
To be brutally honest, I’ve been there. Years ago, I crushed on Desi guys who only seemed to “swing one way”; I’ve been let down gently by being told that:
If I did date Indian girls, you’d totally be my type.
I’m just not attracted to dark skin…I like pink nipples (!) (this from someone even darker than me)
and the best one, ever,
Um, I could never go out with you because it would be like dating my sister. White girls don’t remind me of relatives.
And what do black and Asian girls remind you of? It’s so telling that they almost never factor in to these cringe-inducing statements, it’s always white girls who are “preferred”, which invites doubt about the sincerity behind someone’s “type”.
Predictably, each of those instances left me feeling wounded. It didn’t help matters that every time my Mother came across some seemingly eligible, compatible (read: also raised-away-from-Mallus) ummarried boy, his mother would sorrowfully lament that
“He already has girlfriend. White. Enne chayum?”.
Mom would come home, grumpy. “The second they graduate from law or med school, they run after a vellambi. Chey!”
I knew why my Mother said something so annoyingly ignorant. Encounters with unavailable, suitable boys combined with input from her coworkers, a good portion of whom are African-American, to create an explosive cocktail of hurt; soon, my Mother absorbed that odious complex about “successful POC going white”, especially after the cutest brown resident at her hospital took up with some “white nurse who wasn’t even pretty” instead of someone Indian/Pinay/Chinese/Black (all of whom were/are allegedly gorgeous, in comparison). When they heard about the brown and white coupling, my Mother’s African American office mate snorted, “typical” while Ma shook her head and sighed. She told me all about it, bitterly.
“Mommy, maybe they’re in love?”
“Podi, penne. Stop being blonde.”
“Mom you’re being unreasonable.”
“You are never going to find a boy. There are no educated Malayalee boys with three degrees. If there are, they are only interested in the white girls.”
“I don’t care how many degrees…remember? I like engineers. They usually have just one.”
“Chinammamma is right. That’s a recipe for disaster. Boy should have more degrees than girl-“
“- and be three years older, and three inches taller and blah blah blah. Spare me, Ma.”
“Make fun all you want, those things are accepted for a reason- they work. You want your husband to resent you?”
“I thought you didn’t care if I got married?”
“I don’t. It would save me money. I’d rather travel than waste all that, or put the down-payment on a house for you. I have nothing to prove to your Father’s friends and I’ve never been interested in outdoing them. I just…saw Mercy’s son and thought he was so cute. My grandchildren would have been so cute!”
All right-y, then. What’s hilarious is that my Mother had to alter her theory a year later, when “Mercy’s son” got engaged to a Punjabi girl he met in law school:
“Sho! Anyone but a Malayalee penne, eh?”
“What, Ma…now there’s a hierarchy? White, then North Indian, then South?” 😀
I didn’t really make peace with any of this until I met an adorable white guy who confessed that he liked me…only to hear me gracefully blurt out that I only date brown boys. It’s true, I can’t help it. I always have gone brown and probably always will. It’s just what I am attracted to– black hair, dark eyes, tan skin (fur optional).
The epiphany I had at that moment, while staring in to wounded blue eyes and rapidly batting blonde lashes, brought me closure and a bit of enlightenment; duh, no one has to justify whom they are attracted to, but hopefully they are acting out of their purest feelings– we can’t help whom we fall for, but we can call ourselves out if we’re nursing some bizarre colonial hangover or other therapy-requiring-issue (full disclosure: I have a family member who ONLY dates white guys, because they are the polar opposite of her strict, very Desi Dad).
There are other aspects to the complicated issue of human mixology, too– one of my dearest friends is finally in a blissful relationship. With a black man. After being repeatedly rejected by Desi guys for her tan skin and curves, she has given up on making her parents’ dreams of an Indian son-in-law come true. Instead, she found someone who will accept her just as she is; she has decided to do what makes her happy– and I am thrilled for her. I’m also broken-hearted that essentially, she has to keep her love closeted. Additionally, I would enjoy beating the fecal matter out of the last Desi she went on a blind date with, who brilliantly said, “you’d be so pretty if you weren’t so dark!”, while recoiling from her. But I’m protective and furious like that.
Look. This stuff is real. It happens. Let’s talk about it, if you are in the mood. I’m opening a safe space for exploration, if you are so inclined. You don’t have to be P.C. or fake, you just have to be respectful and courteous; controversial topics are impossible to fisk if we’re not, right?
401!
Vinod, you conservative pundit, you. 😉
be careful about taking v-man’s advice about the impending “bear market.”
I just reread my comments and realized I had either a) mistyped, or b) fragmented quite a few of the points I was trying to make. I think the idea of multiethnic in-des dating is interesting. I think desi women DO have a harder time integrating with the American dating structure because of within-community pressure and double-standards.
Oh, girl, don’t we all know it! I would seriously like to take a poll of how many [straight] guys TRULY want and appreciate their women au naturel. If they only knew how much work goes into looking “naturally” clean-cut, I have a feeling they would curb their complaints a bit!
razib, I notice the community-level tension most when it comes to dating non-Punjabis. I think religion is a bit more moot for my family because of the number of cross-religious marriages (mostly Sikh-Hindu), and the growing number of interracial (mostly Sikh-Jewish or Sikh-Christian) marriages in the U.S. That said, the (racist) joke the younger generation makes about our parents is, “Better to bring home a black guy than a Muslim!” Of course we don’t mean it seriously, but the compounded levels of racism and religious frenzy seem to really delineate and define what is considered acceptable. Sometimes I wonder if my elders (not so much my parents and nanas — they’re pretty open) would prefer that someone date inter-racially before dating, oh, say a TamBram 🙂
I’ve also noticed that among my (older) uncles who married white women there is a general tension between the fam and those spouses. As if these were the women who “tricked” my uncles into marrying them (which is of course cruel and untrue). I think it harkens back to the “white girls are for practicing on” idea, which is horrific and equally racist/sexist.
Sorry, none of this had a point, I’m just reflecting/thinking “out loud.”
Camille, right here in Boston. 🙂
I agree that different criteria exist for men and women when it comes to sex, but I try not to play by those rules and don’t get bothered if the girl is um .. more experienced than me. Reading Susie Bright at an early age helps too. 😉
this is nice to hear. i used to lift weights and stopped, but i just picked it up again, and i’m aiming for some nice muscle tone.you can always tell when women work out by strength training – to me, it almost always looks hot.
during my ‘heavier’ days, i was actually at a desi party getting a drink when this guy next to me leaned over to his friend and whispered, ‘dude, that girl is so fat – did you see how big her ass was?’ i don’t attribute this to being desi, but in reality, desi guys (and only desi guys, in desi social settings) have called me fat to my face (and most of them were downright nasty about it). i couldn’t believe it then, and i still cannot believe that anybody would be so low to do something like that.
Having had to remove kinds of bodyhair for Bharatanatyam performances, I can say with confidence that I’m in the au natural-is-okay camp.
razib, I notice the community-level tension most when it comes to dating non-Punjabis.
well, to be explicit about this (and i don’t want to turn this into punjabi bashing, seriously!), could some of it be that punjabis (“scythians”) just don’t want to debase their blood with the typical run of the mill dark-skinned indian? i mean, in any “pairing” there will be vertical dynamics at work. here are ones i can think of or glean from the conversations on SM, with the “better” end of the spectrum first:
1) north to south (really northwest to southeast, i don’t think most would count bengalis as northern, but i’m not sure) 2) high caste to non-high caste 3) high SES to lower SES 4) own group to non-own group 5) light skin to dark skin 6) sharp features to non-sharp features
then, there are the dynamics which aren’t as vertical as horizontal:
1) religion 2) language 3) cusine 4) nationality
i recall reading that indira gandhi’s family were skeptical of her marriage to feroze gandhi, not because he was a non-hindu (parsi), but because he was middle class while indira came form a privileged upper class background.
I totally attribute this thing to be desi. I have in various social settings seen desi men diss women (desi or otherwise, while people from other culture were also present). I have also caught slack for being comfortable with doing things like opening doors or allowing a girl to enter exit first. I have been told to my face that it is unnecessary and that I make them look bad.
Personally I have always felt that a lot of desi men fall on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to respecting women and treating them as equals.
not just a north-south thing. just the other day, my mother, well-entrenched in tamilian society, was saying how marrying a tambram would be a bit of a ‘problem.’ obviously, this has a bit to do with the specific culture and history of TN brahmins, but it’s an issue even intra-regionally.
I totally attribute this thing to be desi. I have in various social settings seen desi men diss women (desi or otherwise, while people from other culture were also present).
i have noticed my family in bangladesh say some real rude things about each to each other’s faces. (e.g., “your teeth are looking yellow, have you not brushed much lately?” or, “your cousin is so much prettier than your sister! so much fairer!”) i have wondered whether there is a difference in terms of what you have to be polite about in the USA vs. brownland, and sometimes americo-brownz “code switch” in brown social contexts. that is, in many countries (not just brown ones) people will tell you that you look fatter than last time. obviously that’s a no-no in the USA.
We’re cruelest to our own.
The double-standard extends to many things and desi parties are a special level of hell.
A decade ago, when one of my physically smaller (I love how being 5’6″/having a BMI of 21 made me “the guy” among my gfs) friends was getting mauled at some SF bhangra party by a beast who didn’t care that she kept saying, “leave me alone, please”. I intervened and got between them, since she didn’t look like she was enjoying being pinned against the wall and dry-humped violently (wtf, right?).
I got called a “fat dyke bitch”, for my efforts.
The most awesome part of this story happened two weeks later, when I was at the infamous “Sol y Luna” and I recognized sleazebag-asshole a few feet away, trying similar with a white girl…whose white gf immediately did exactly what I did, and threw a drink in his face for good measure. He quietly slunk off, without a peep.
My inner cynic says that your beauty-pageant-judges wouldn’t have pulled that shit with a white girl. 🙁
razib, these were all ABDs – i guess the PC-ness only applies so far as voicing the thought – or not even, as the case has been with me – but not to the thought itself. when DBDs say it, sometimes i take it more in stride – though i’ve definitely called out a cousin or two who, having their own physical insecurities, have criticised my appearance.
karthik – this is the case with many desi men i have met. i used to think it was just generational – i.e. this is so in my parents’ relationship(s) – but even with some of my ABD and DBD friends/relatives, there seem to be more defined notions of gender relations that give women, even slightly so, a less equal position.
razib, I wouldn’t be surprised if skin color was a major factor (I never hear the end of how “dark” I am relative to my cousins), but I also think a huge element is language. It’s easier to converse with someone whose family speaks Hindi/Urdu than Telegu/Malayalee (if you’re trying to communicate in your first language, that is).
ak, that is awful, but I’m unfortunately not surprised. I feel you on the strength training. I hate doing it at the gym (mostly b/c of all the huge guys walking around rolling their eyes and wondering if I actually know how to use the weight equipment), but it’s the part of my workout that makes me feel the most “powerful,” if that makes sense.
ANNA, I also feel you on that double standard, although to be fair it seems that guys in the Bay have no problem threatening women of all colors/sizes/shapes for cockblocking.
razib, these were all ABDs – i guess the PC-ness only applies so far as voicing the thought – or not even, as the case has been with me – but not to the thought itself.
ak, well, when i say “code switch,” i just mean that even ABDs can out unusual for the typical american given the proper social context. if they are at a brown party and what not perhaps they are more likely to exhibit the biases and mores which their parents express. in a regular “american” context they might never behave in such a manner because they’re in a different cognitive state.
Amit, who is Susie Bright?
I’ve noticed that there’s definitely a different standard for politeness in India (and in Kenya, also), but I’m with ak that it’s usual ABDs who are the snarkiest. Everytime someone says something nasty I have a moment of “what were you? born in a barn!?”
reminder for the future – never underestimate the volume of dating angst in browntown 😉 I stand quite humbled.
It’s easier to converse with someone whose family speaks Hindi/Urdu than Telegu/Malayalee
i hear that. though bengali is far more distinct from hindi/urdu than punjabi or gujarati, bengali speakers can usually make out the general gist of what’s going on or attain a basic level of fluency (the urdu or punjabi speakers in “mixed” marriages never really seem to feel they need to learn bengali, which among muslims is perceived as a more “hindu” language than urdu, so usually there’s a tacit agreement to raise the kids speaking urdu). on the the other hand i do have some cognitive dissonance when i hear south indian languages because the accent is so familiar but no matter how closely i listen i can’t extract an iota of intelligibility. i recall a family from hyderabad, urdu speakers, who were irritated that their relative had married a tamil speaking muslim because the language issue was a big problem. on the other hand, there were no objections when their daughter married a pakistani punjabi because language wasn’t an issue (though hyderabad is in southern india).
see, not just healthy but empowering!
Finding a true 24-hour gym is key–you can avoid the crowds and the muscle-bound intimidators.
Camille, she writes about sexual issues in US society, and it was easy to identify self-prejudices after reading some of her books.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susie_Bright
Even at a 24-hour gym I don’t think I’ll be going any earlier than I already do (6:30-7ish) 🙂 Part of this was just investing in sound-proof headphones so I can listen while I lift and ignore the pointed humph*sigh*s in my vicinity. I may look stupid, but at least I get to be in my own world of musical oblivion.
amit, i remember her column about ‘bend over boyfriend’ videos. 😉
‘cockblocking’ is a terrible term–I prefer to think of it as a random act of kindness not just for the molested party but also for the molester as you’re saving them from a lot of guilt, perhaps jail-time and loads of regret(assuming that that they have some sort of moral compass).
I feel the same way when in the midst of hindi-speaking crowd, but also when I’m in the middle of a Singhala-speaking crowd.
Lankans have somewhat ameliorated the effect of this cognitive dissonance by leading the way in Anglophilic living–English, Englishness and being ‘cosmopolitan’ has enabled many a happy, long-lasting Singhala-Tamil union in my family.
Lankans have somewhat ameliorated the effect of this cognitive dissonance by leading the way in Anglophilic living–English, Englishness and being ‘cosmopolitan’ has enabled many a happy, long-lasting Singhala-Tamil union in my family.
well, when i had an interest in philology of south asia (a 1 or 2 book interest 😉 i did note that some researchers have claimed that indo-aryan languages seem like they picked up their accents from dravidian languages (because the languages spread through elite cultural emulation). and obviously there are indian words which are shared across the chasm of language families (or, indo-aryan languages had neologisms, like the word for elephant, which is translated as “the animal with a hand” [bengali = hathi]). but in any case, while generalization about browns, it is important to note that we’re talking about a region equivalent to europe. one would wonder at the tensions/confusions that might emerge from the marriage of a basque citizen of spain with a finn, even though both are white and christian (at least nominally usually). so it should be no surprise that there are issues which will crop up with americo-brownz marry across intra-brown cleavages.
well, if you learn the proper form for whatever you’re doing you can openly laugh at all the meatheads doing irreparable damage to the connective tissues in their joints.
sometimes you’ll find that the most off-putting of gym royalty can be kind, gracious and accomodating individuals. But if you see chalk on their hands, or hear some sort of animalistic bellowing, your chances of finding such an individual are markedly lower.
Camille:
I disagree, while I agree double standards exist, they’re not pronounced as much for dating. That is, how many parents will be completely free with their sons dating and their daughters not? From the people I’ve been in touch with, dating is one of those no-no’s or ‘chee chee’ things that are American and therefore “bad.”
And my disparity is not based on community pressure or double standards, rather based on the intrinsic nature of what the American dating structure is, that is, men jumping through hoops trying to impress, woo, and interest women.
razib, I haven’t seen that video, but yes, something like that would be right up her alley. 🙂
My favorite books are “Sexual State of the Union” and “Full Exposure” – both non-fiction.
thanks. though everytime i hear something nasty, my thought is, ‘darling, you’re not so fucking hot yourself’ (not that that should matter but, it’s the logic that would most make sense to the bastard).
razib, hyderabad is very different fronm the rest of AP in that pretty much everybody knows urdu, but the same cannot be said for telugu. also, i also meant a code switch – but from a different perspective – with mainstream americans, the PC-ness does not prevent the thought, but only its vocalisation; whereas with desis, they feel free to suppress neither.
ha ha – what an ass. the most awesome part of my story is that some years later, one of these very some guys had the nerve to hit on me. of course, i turned him down, but not before telling him why.
razib, hyderabad is very different fronm the rest of AP in that pretty much everybody knows urdu, but the same cannot be said for telugu.
yeah, just wanting to get across the relevance of language.
btw, there have been a few comments about interracial relationships here, and some have mentioned how things can be harder, etc. i would like to “witness” that i’m with the person i want to be with for the rest of my life, and we are pretty much lined up on all our major values (she is probably more of an atheist than i am, if one can say such a thing, for example). i get alone with her family rather well (i see her dad every day pretty much since he retired to the town we live in), and see them far more often than my own family. in many ways i have much more in common with my gf than with my parents. the point isn’t that this is typical, it probably isn’t. most americo-brownz have more than a residual attachment to their ancestral religion, which is usually going to be non-christian, and so forth. but, it does go to show that difficulties have to be framed within the prior conditions, it isn’t just a matter of brown & white, it is the bundle of parameters that come along with being brown & white. since i’m not close to my family, don’t adhere to any religion, am generally “western” in my outlook and identification and so forth, many of the fissures have never cropped up. that doesn’t mean that being interracial is never going to be difficult, but the poitn is a lot of difficulties aren’t necessarily about race.
This only makes sense to me if we’re talking about folks AFTER they’ve entered the dating pool. That said, entering to begin with is definitely more difficult and more frowned upon — in my opinion — for desi woman than desi men.
That DOES sound like sweet revenge.
muralimannered, I totally feel you. This was the same inner-gloat I had when I was an athlete in high school and the non-athletic guys would come to lift 🙂
razib, I totally feel you on the cognitive dissonance, although I do feel more “comfortable” with Bengali than Gujarati or Tamil (I guess because I can still understand/pick up 30-40% of the Bengali I hear, whereas I pick up 0% of the Tamil/Gujarati?).
Thread on outsourcing and racism: 42 comments
Thread on infant murder: 69 comments
Thread on dating and sex: 427 comments and counting
Commentary on relative priorities: priceless.
🙂
Speedy
Speedy @ # 430 said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you haven’t made a startlingly deep observation. This topic encapsulates many nuanced topics. How many people need to post “that’s horrible!” about a baby being stabbed before you’re satisfied?
it is ridiculous how much ‘easier’ it has been for me to be around desis from any part of the region since picking up hindi : my telugu covers kannada, tamil covers malayalam, and hindi covers almost all the rest. and it has also opened up totally new linguistic (specifically slang/idiomatic) worlds. on the other hand, one of my friends told me that she couldn’t be as close to me as she is if i didn’t understand hindi well – wtf?
Since we’re all talking about ladies doing some weightlifting, check this link out.
If that doesn’t inspire anyone (man or woman) I wouldn’t know what else to say. (By the way, free weights with compound movements is always the way to go, forget all the machines – your muscles work in coordination with others, not in isolation.) I picked the link up from a strongman forum, but the video is from Crossfit.
Overhead bodyweight squats at 15 reps.
First time I tried doing these with just the bar, I almost toppled over. It take some solid coordination of your core/body to do these. The girl even has perfect form, plus doing her bodyweight (looks like 135) and FIFTEEN reps.
one of my friends told me that she couldn’t be as close to me as she is if i didn’t understand hindi well
well, this blog is somewhat “hindnormative,” despite the fact that the primary posters are not from hindi-speaking backgrounds themselves in the generality. there are hindi/punjabi terms which i really didn’t understand that i had to email/ask SM regulars about. in some ways it seems that hindu is the english of the south asian world, if you know hindi you don’t need to know anything else. this sort of vertical relationship can manifest in other relationships, when my family hung out with a bunch of people from orissa it was hilarious that they could understand bengali, as generally our social circle of non-bengalis focused on hindi and urdu speakers who assumed we would know their language (to be fair, oriya is very close to bengali, or vice versa depending on how you look at it).
p.s. i don’t know hindi or urdu and so i have to disappoint brown people in big cities who occasionally will speak to me in those languages tentatively to check if i’m one of the peeps.
True, I am looking at it from a POV of people who are socially active, say a safe assumption for most men and women at .But I still think dating is one of those things thats frowned upon accross the board, because they disagree with the entire process, rather than potential dangers that may afflict a female specifically. I certainly felt I wasn’t allowed. If nothing for the pure illogicity of a widespread double standard. If desi parents encourage or turn a blind eye to their sons entering dating, who are they supposed to date – if they agree with putting the clamps on women from entering the same process?
correction – it’s 123lbs.
Wow, this baby’s going to hit 500 in no time. 🙂 I think it’s so universal everyone has something they want to say on it… as opposed to those other topics, where I may enjoy reading about it but may not have much to comment on. And alas, the topic of love and longing and relationships and marriage is one of the great mysteries of life we all deal with. 🙂
And I have to say, I’m one of the guilty in sometimes speaking to any brown-seeming person in Hindi. I’m just trying to connect to them… I’m pretty sure I come across as very ABD, so I always hope throwing in the homegrown language will get me some cred with them.
where I may enjoy reading about it but may not have much to comment on.
what? you never stabbed a baby and threw it in the trash?
And I have to say, I’m one of the guilty in sometimes speaking to any brown-seeming person in Hindi. I’m just trying to connect to them
i want to be clear i don’t mind this sort of behavior from strangers. i understand they are trying to be friendly. 80-90% of the time the person is totally embarrassed and apologetic for the inadvertent presumption. in terms of the other 10-20% who act as if i’m not a real brown if i don’t know hindi or urdu, well, there are jerks in all sets of humans! i suspect most punjabi and gujarati origin brownz in the USA would know hindi, right? that hits the majority of americo-brownz, and add the minority from the “cowbelt” regions and you get some good conditional probabilities. that being said, a huge number of americo-brownz are south india or from eastern india where hindi isn’t as common as a lingua franca. (i saw numbers once which suggested half of americo-brownz might be gujarati, with the largest group in the balance being punjabi)
It’s certainly inspirational, but the crossfit community is not for people looking to get back into shape.
All those fancy pants movements where you stand on a medicine ball and squat, do dumbell-presses from a medicine ball or this over-head bar squat are examples of simple exercises made needlessly complex and injuries will be a good possibility–this is not true, however, if you’re a surfer, extreme-sports person (BMX, skate, etc.) or play a sport that requires ridiculous core stability.
If you want bigger/more toned muscles and/or visible separation/detail as well as muscle inserts, doing the standard power movements, where you are set up with more-than-sufficient leverage, is the way to go if you dislike joint injuries. Standard power movements have their own issues but it’s not wise to fling your bodyweight around, before you can move it in a simple arc or line.
I personally dislike any movements where you put a bar above your head while in a standing/seated position, given the incredible stress that is placed on your rotator cuff and the inside of your shoulder(most people who have lifted heavy for more than 2 years can attest to this), but if you’re feeling frisky..why not?
razib, your last post reminded me of something.
Many moons ago, when I was FOB, I was surprised by the friendliness of complete desi strangers who would approach me in public (bus, train, shops, street, anywhere) and ask about me. My enthusiasm would disappear in two minutes when they started their standard spiel on Amway/Quixtar and invited me to seminars. I learned to have a guarded approach to stranger desis approaching me after this became a pattern.
The latest thing seems to be asking me whether I’m married or not, right after introducing themselves!! I can’t help but be amused by it and wonder if this is some code for gay desis, or whether they are looking for a groom for their unmarried sister/sister-in-law etc. 🙂
?
since i’ve added a lot of commentary to this thread i thought i might add some data. i checked who the patels have been marrying on the new york times wedding pages. here is what i found
Sonali Dalsukh Madia and Nimesh Naresh Patel
Shilpa Patel and Christopher Larson (brown + white married by an episcopal priest in a hindu & christian themed ceremony)
Mira Patel and Fayez Muhtadie (hindu + muslim married in interfaith & hindu ceremony)
Nell Maloney, Manish Patel (hindu + white, catholic & hindu ceremony)
Payal Patel and Ravi Chatani
Sandhya Jain and Samir Patel
Sheevani Patel, Ruchir Raikundalia
Sonal Patel, Sachin Chaudhry
Bena Shah, Abhay Patel
Vinisha Patel, Saurabh Shah
Shefali Patel, David Shusterman (hindu + white, hindu & jewish ceremony)
Lisa George, Sarit Patel (hindu + white, catholic & hindu ceremonies)
Vihas Patel, Tejas Patel
Hemalee Patel, Unmesh Kher
Anil Patel and Clare Stephens (hindu + white, catholic & hindu ceremony)
Sheila Patel, Steven Benfield (half-brown + white, catholic ceremony)
Vidisha Dehejia And Ashvin Patel
Sanjay Patel Wed To Leslie Dickey (hindu + white, civil wedding)
Susan Patel to Marry R.M. Furlaud Jr. (half-brown + white, wedding announcement)
Eric Patel Weds Catherine Miller (brown/half-brown (?) + white, episcopal wedding)
i saw no patterns of fuglytude. the photographed pairs seemed to be “matched” no matter the race combination.
Interesting thread.
despite having grown up surrounded by whites (and barely any other minorty, to include S. Asians) i would have preferred to end up with a desi chap. it just never worked out. in between making fun of my “non-desi” hobbies (whatever that means) such as outdoorsy sports and the fact that i did not have many desi friends (one or two close ones, the rest from all over the world – but why is that important, anyway?!) – i just never fit in to their world.
add to that their intense pre-occupation with occupations, salary and social standing. it was always about where you went to school, what kind of job you had, how much money you made. it was just so tiring to me. i don’t know why we, as a culture, are so obsessed. disclaimer: of course not every desi person is, but every desi guy i dated has been obsessed with these things.
i knew i never fit in – and this was made especially clear to me the day i met boyfriend #2’s friends (all ivy league sorts) and the first question was, “what do your parents do for a living?”. i knew i could never feel comfortable in that world.
in the end, i know i will miss out on some shared understanding, especially when it comes to dealing with my parents as a married woman – but i ended up with a great east asian guy who offers me some common cultural sensibilities…
(but it would have been great to have found him in s. asian form regardless).
Will not likely work..why not?? Surely you are smarter than basing your entire point of view on what a sole cousin of yours in NYC had to endure…right? Also, if you had actually read my post you’d have realised that I married the guy.
Sorry i’m late to the party, bit of IST happening. a few thoughts –
A post that is 400+ and Anna got flamed only twice i think and that was unintentional. Quite impressive.
Since most people are in their late 20s (is that right?), are these discussions around dating with an eye on settling down with the one or are people talking about the whole gamut – casual dating, hookups, friends with benefits etc etc?
The whole dry humping or performing pelvic thrusts on a girl from behind as a terrible excuse for dancing and game, just needs to stop across all races. However, all things aren’t equal and a decent looking black guy (along with white guys) may do just fine with the above method with white girls but too many mundes try the same thing on white and other races to not exactly the desired effect. And some of these guys are leeches and can’t take a hint (again across the board).
Camille @ 413, I think you are projecting when you think the muscleheads are rolling their eyes at you wondering if you know how to use the weights/machines in the gym. As a skinny lad, I started lifting weights for the first time in my mid 20s, and felt very conscious about being around uber muscled/ripped guys. Buy I got overmy discomfort and started talking to some of these guys and they were all really sweet and would give me tips on form etc.
I like women, all kinds and I find that meeting an indian girl in a bar/club scene is annoying cos they have 7 other girls with them and 8 other guys and they all circle dance. And it is so hard to tell who is fucking whom in the group to identify the single girl that one can talk to. So, I just meet them elsewhere. Coffee shops, gyms, restaurants, museums, everywhere where they are not expecting to get hit on 😉 As for the non-indian girls, through sheer numbers alone, you can’t not meet them or have relationships with them. Why would one go out of their way for a Malgova when an alphonso mango is readily available?
i’d like to ask the mutineers – mainly my sista’s – if they think being the daughter in law of a white family is easier than an indian one. being happily married for four years, i still struggle and chafe at the role bestowed upon me. caucasian americans families dont have these suffocating roles, are they still as close if there is no set of duties each one must perform?
hope i don’t sound too disjointed/silly, just musings after another tough weekend with the inlaws………
yes, this is tied in with the convo, maybe thats another reason some desi women prefer non desi guys.
32 – muralimannered
Has no one ever run into the religion factor? I found that to be an even stickier issue than my rakshasa-like complexion in the dating world. By ‘sticky’ I mean that if it is an issue, it can usually never be overcome by any amount of reason/logic.
–> I have had trouble with the ‘atheist’ connotation so much so my mom cannot understand why I should even volunteer that information. I have learnt my lessons and now use approximations of atheism(‘not particularly religious’ is my current favourite).
I have had trouble with the ‘atheist’ connotation so much so my mom cannot understand why I should even volunteer that information. I have learnt my lessons and now use approximations of atheism(‘not particularly religious’ is my current favourite).
well, the ratios are not in the male atheist’s favor, but all i can say is increase the size of your sample space….
I think its mostly a simplification, I know many female’s who’ve married into white families only to feel completely alienated by their in laws, who want no part of the “native culture”, especially after the hoopla of the actual wedding fades away.
Post with most comments (AFAIK):
An Adopting Mother Confronts the Complexion Gap – 651