Whoa– is dating White not right?

this is why i only date brown.JPG

…because according to some commenters, apparently, it isn’t. Suddenly there are commentS about hot Desi girls choosing white guys over their own— and I emphasize the plural aspect of “comment”, because that’s what caught my attention– this wasn’t some one-off virtual rant. Frankly, Mr. Shankly, I’m shocked. While some of the people who are leaving the eyebrow-raising statements seem to be new, I’m fully aware that the normal pattern of Sepia engagement is:

Random Googling –> Sepia? What the-? –> Hmmm, interesting –> Lurking –> and then finally, posting.

If these anti-miscegenation fans have followed that tried-and-true process, then they’d be aware that there are more than a few members of the Mutiny community who are the products of interracial unions; I can’t imagine that they’d be so tactless as to disparage such pairings when they reflect someone like Siddhartha, Desidancer or SemiDesiMasala’s ancestry.

So, maybe these are just mischief-instigating trolls, having some wicked fun via drive-by hate-spewing.

Or are they?

I think there’s more to this– and that’s why I’m publishing this post. Let’s have it out, then. Some of you seem to be in the mood to REALLY tell us what you think, so here’s your deluxe chance. Almost everyone here is anonymous. πŸ™‚ It’s safe to be honest.

The following comments were left on my post about a woman named Aarti being chosen as one of the cuter people on the Hill:

hillside: Also I’ve never dated an Indian girl either, probably partly because so many of the hot ones like the two on this list are into white dudes. [sm]
Sheetal: (referring to comment above)
I’ve noticed this too. What is up with that? [sm]

Sheetal followed that comment by excerpting the following portion of the Hill article, making sure to highlight certain significant words by “bolding” them.

Skipper is a native of Chicago but both parents are from India Ò€” something that had worried her when it came to the issue of marriage. The handsome man in church soon became her boyfriend, but he was American and Caucasian, far from what she thought her parents would ever accept.

Okay, loud and clear. Jamie Skipper is Desi and she married a Caucasian (never mind that Desis are Caucasian, too). Yet another commenter seemed to agree with hillside and Sheetal:

Kannan: its interesting that you bring this up..We have parallels with the asian community. I’ve heard/seen that before. Hot lil Korean spinner would rather hook up with tall lanky white dude than someone from her race and its kind of common because I know a lot of my asian brothers who want to date from their race gripe and bitch about it:) Its almost like an invisible social hierarchy And the same goes for desi guys, I have a lot of friends who date white girls just because they think it brings them more social value” Look at me FOB minority guy pulling from the majority race” However for me its never really been race, its whether I was attracted to the person or not and it so happens I have never gone brown πŸ™‚ [sm]

Kannan, I think your final sentence encapsulates how most of us feel, but that doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t explore the other sentiments I’ve highlighted.

SM is at its best when we are honestly, openly and sometimes painfully hashing out the issues that our community/others refuse to acknowledge or discuss; I didn’t put this post up in order to invite you to pillory “hillside” and “Sheetal”. They weren’t abusive, they were blunt. I wrote this post because I wanted to know how the rest of you felt. The thing is, I am almost certain that they aren’t alone and that more of you agree with them than we realize. Maybe it’s time to call ourselves out.

To be brutally honest, I’ve been there. Years ago, I crushed on Desi guys who only seemed to “swing one way”; I’ve been let down gently by being told that:

If I did date Indian girls, you’d totally be my type.

I’m just not attracted to dark skin…I like pink nipples (!) (this from someone even darker than me)

and the best one, ever,

Um, I could never go out with you because it would be like dating my sister. White girls don’t remind me of relatives.

And what do black and Asian girls remind you of? It’s so telling that they almost never factor in to these cringe-inducing statements, it’s always white girls who are “preferred”, which invites doubt about the sincerity behind someone’s “type”.

Predictably, each of those instances left me feeling wounded. It didn’t help matters that every time my Mother came across some seemingly eligible, compatible (read: also raised-away-from-Mallus) ummarried boy, his mother would sorrowfully lament that

“He already has girlfriend. White. Enne chayum?”.

Mom would come home, grumpy. “The second they graduate from law or med school, they run after a vellambi. Chey!”

I knew why my Mother said something so annoyingly ignorant. Encounters with unavailable, suitable boys combined with input from her coworkers, a good portion of whom are African-American, to create an explosive cocktail of hurt; soon, my Mother absorbed that odious complex about “successful POC going white”, especially after the cutest brown resident at her hospital took up with some “white nurse who wasn’t even pretty” instead of someone Indian/Pinay/Chinese/Black (all of whom were/are allegedly gorgeous, in comparison). When they heard about the brown and white coupling, my Mother’s African American office mate snorted, “typical” while Ma shook her head and sighed. She told me all about it, bitterly.

“Mommy, maybe they’re in love?”

“Podi, penne. Stop being blonde.”

“Mom you’re being unreasonable.”

“You are never going to find a boy. There are no educated Malayalee boys with three degrees. If there are, they are only interested in the white girls.”

“I don’t care how many degrees…remember? I like engineers. They usually have just one.”

“Chinammamma is right. That’s a recipe for disaster. Boy should have more degrees than girl-“

“- and be three years older, and three inches taller and blah blah blah. Spare me, Ma.”

“Make fun all you want, those things are accepted for a reason- they work. You want your husband to resent you?”

“I thought you didn’t care if I got married?”

“I don’t. It would save me money. I’d rather travel than waste all that, or put the down-payment on a house for you. I have nothing to prove to your Father’s friends and I’ve never been interested in outdoing them. I just…saw Mercy’s son and thought he was so cute. My grandchildren would have been so cute!”

All right-y, then. What’s hilarious is that my Mother had to alter her theory a year later, when “Mercy’s son” got engaged to a Punjabi girl he met in law school:

“Sho! Anyone but a Malayalee penne, eh?”

“What, Ma…now there’s a hierarchy? White, then North Indian, then South?” πŸ˜€

I didn’t really make peace with any of this until I met an adorable white guy who confessed that he liked me…only to hear me gracefully blurt out that I only date brown boys. It’s true, I can’t help it. I always have gone brown and probably always will. It’s just what I am attracted to– black hair, dark eyes, tan skin (fur optional).

The epiphany I had at that moment, while staring in to wounded blue eyes and rapidly batting blonde lashes, brought me closure and a bit of enlightenment; duh, no one has to justify whom they are attracted to, but hopefully they are acting out of their purest feelings– we can’t help whom we fall for, but we can call ourselves out if we’re nursing some bizarre colonial hangover or other therapy-requiring-issue (full disclosure: I have a family member who ONLY dates white guys, because they are the polar opposite of her strict, very Desi Dad).

There are other aspects to the complicated issue of human mixology, too– one of my dearest friends is finally in a blissful relationship. With a black man. After being repeatedly rejected by Desi guys for her tan skin and curves, she has given up on making her parents’ dreams of an Indian son-in-law come true. Instead, she found someone who will accept her just as she is; she has decided to do what makes her happy– and I am thrilled for her. I’m also broken-hearted that essentially, she has to keep her love closeted. Additionally, I would enjoy beating the fecal matter out of the last Desi she went on a blind date with, who brilliantly said, “you’d be so pretty if you weren’t so dark!”, while recoiling from her. But I’m protective and furious like that.

Look. This stuff is real. It happens. Let’s talk about it, if you are in the mood. I’m opening a safe space for exploration, if you are so inclined. You don’t have to be P.C. or fake, you just have to be respectful and courteous; controversial topics are impossible to fisk if we’re not, right?

1,347 thoughts on “Whoa– is dating White not right?

  1. All right. Hair post coming. And for once, it won’t be about removing it. πŸ˜€

  2. i am surprised that a more explicit discussion re: the portrayal of desi men as nerdy, sexist, violent, yet passive, sexually deprived,accented and foreign has not come up.

  3. milli – funny how people prefer your straight hair. No, no, just those desi boys! And my parents πŸ™‚ Of course, my parents’ version of good hair is …

    “amla-oil soaked, slicked-back ponytails! actually, i don’t knock the oil. i use exactly 4 drops of biotique oil in my hair with no other product, and i think i have pretty wonderful wavy hair — as wonderful as it’s gonna get without the assist from the curling iron to have perfect celebrity waves. naturallycurly.com transformed my whole view on my hair, i must say. i stopped the daily straightening 5 years ago (mostly because it was so time consuming), threw away my flat iron 2 yrs ago, and never looked back. i remember when i’d never, ever dream of going to something “important” (invertview, class reunion, first date, etc.) with curly hair; now i feel the same way about straight hair!

    milli, if i were a guy, i would date you in a second. fuck all those people who dare(d) to judge you that’s very flattering, ak, however since i do believe in marriage, it would never work. now, you may be out there in OppositeLand with your minority view, but i’ll see you and raise with aversion to monogamy. i second the naturallycurly.com recommendation and am also a walking encyclopedia on hair products (for all types of hair).

    All right. Hair post coming. oh, DAMN IT. backing away from computer … now!

    aaaand back to the post at hand. πŸ™‚

  4. Milli, the oil is good in moderation, actually. Recently I went back to coconut oil and it’s like a leave-in conditioner–it leaves my hair silky and defined…that is, when I don’t use the whole bottle. I think I was indoctrinated by my mama when I was younger and she used dumped bottles of amla in my hair to take the snarls outta my hair. When I was a teenager, I thought that using more oil would make my hair straighter–it only made it greasy, though.

  5. i am surprised that a more explicit discussion re: the portrayal of desi men as nerdy, sexist, violent, yet passive, sexually deprived,accented and foreign has not come up.

    It’s come up– almost everything has, after 200 comments– but it hasn’t been the main focus.

    Razib surprised me early on in the thread, with the following info (via comments #5 & 8):

    i don’t think the emasculation of brown guys is as extreme or pronounced as east asian guys. there was an article in the UC berkeley paper i think about a professor talking to asian american female students who offered that they preferred whites and brown guys over other east asians. the latter angle was something that surprised the professor.
    Girls the class I taught generally gave me two answers to this question. The most obvious one being White men, as people around Berkeley and other cultural areas can most recognizably notice. The second most common answer from the girls was Indian men (South Asians). When I asked the girls why the preferred these two ethnic groups of men, their responses centered around two areas: economic status and physical attractiveness.
  6. Manju: Going by Anands comment, if it really is about power, then his comment should have said, powerful men get all the women that they want. Following that trend we can derive that popular men also get all the women they want and we all know neither of those two categories comprise of only white people. If you need examples, think sports stars

    Not really. The theory is that sexual attraction is greatly influenced by human relations of domination, like those underlying colonialism. It’s that whiteness, because of the social construction of racism, in and off itself conveys power and privilege upon the individual who posses this quality. The existence of other such qualities (money, education, etc) does not negate this phenomenon. Now I understand Anand did not exactly phrase it this way, that he used crude language that made his argument unpalatable to some, that he oversimplified his case by not using qualifiers, and that his analysis was devoid of the obligatory moral condemnation or desire to de-colonize sexuality (as Fanon would want to do), but I think this was essentially what he was saying.

    Manju: I’m not so sure that you or Anand or I or anybody else can apply Marxist analysis in trying to understand something so complex as attraction–there’s too many variables involved

    Very true Harbeer. And you’re right to bring up Marx, who along with Freud, was really responsible for this line of thinking.

  7. Thats because he wanted to tap that ass.

    i cannot deny. it was a huge issue between us during the entire three years of law school.

  8. asian american female students who offered that they preferred whites and brown guys

    I’d like to see this paper, the white preference is understandable, and it depends on what you mean by ‘brown’ guys, if you mean latino/hispanic, then sure I’d agree as evidenced by your own statistics,

  9. milli, i said i would date you – not commit for life! as to marriage, you know from that other that it’s definitely a possibility. and did i not state that i believe in monogamy? on the other hand, i always thought that it would be rather cool to date a series of men, none of whom were commitment-worthy, just to experience different types of relationships. kind of like a relationship version of that show, 30 Days.

    ANNA, i highly recommend adding a small bit in the hair post about desi hair care ways – your own kerala has a great product!

  10. Anna, if you’re in the mood for post requests, could you do one on virginity. I’m a 31 year-old virgin and want to know what the record is for Mutineers. Thanks

  11. ANNA, I just read this priceless bon mot from your post:

    IÒ€ℒm just not attracted to dark skinÒ€¦I like pink nipples (!) (this from someone even darker than me)

    Holy shit–that’s equal parts hilarious and disturbing. The guy actually had the gall to mention his nippular preference? I, for one, don’t understand the fixation on pink nipples. Mebbe it’s due to porn’s all-pervasive influence? I like dark nipples–they remind me of Hershey’s kisses. πŸ™‚

  12. A lot of white, latina, black, asian, etc. (non-desi) girls I know have told me, to my surprise, that they find desi men really attractive. Which is usually followed by another comment on how desi guys lack in “game” – viz. desi men don’t make the first move, are passive physically, send confusing signals, etc. Which I agree with them on πŸ™‚ But I always end up also pointing out that a lot of non-desi IT and enginerds also lack in game – fancy that! All that time studying instead of working on playa-skills…

    So desi guys are considered physically attractive a lot of times but maybe many don’t have skills or luck to tap into this potential. Whereas white guys, for example, will know how to act and move things along in a relationship.

    And yes desi women also have undeveloped romantic suaveness. Maybe if one person can have that intuitive sense of how to move things along and get over the little hurdles and challenges that come up as you develop a relationship, helps actually develop that relationship? Where white guys may have the upper hand being part of a culture which encourages healthy, open relationships more. Or maybe the intercultural factor cancels that out. Just some thoughts…

  13. So desi guys are considered physically attractive a lot of times but maybe many don’t have skills or luck to tap into this potential. Whereas white guys, for example, will know how to act and move things along in a relationship.

    It certainly helps to not have tufts of ear, finger and toe fur in your future.

    desi men don’t make the first move, are passive physically, send confusing signals, etc.

    Again, the wolfman-style face fur obstructs quite alot of our facial expressions and sometimes, can contribute to suddenly-sweaty-palms-and-pits-when-in-close-proximity-girls syndrome.

  14. Oh, kannan in 190 seems to bring up some similar points? I’m calling it romantic skills, chemistry is another angle to it… basically to have success in relationships, just being “valuable” or attractive to the opposite sex in terms of looks or money isn’t enough. You need to actually be able to translate those factors into dates/relationships/marriage.

    Although I agree that working on yourself and rest will follow is the way to go. Just work on how you relate to potential mates too, including the mindset you bring to any potential relationship and how you act and react in one.

  15. 214 – haha!

    it always comes back to the hair doesn’t it πŸ˜‰

  16. Although I agree that working on yourself and rest will follow is the way to go.

    I think the safest strategy is concentrating on acheiving sub-10% bodyfat, attempting to stay non-ashy and not do convincing halitosis impressions–appealing to the bod-centered desires of the opposite sex is much more of a sure thing than putting some brylcream in your game.

  17. Its late at night and I am kind of tired. So I will keep it short. I am a brown mallu, who was born , raised and a few other things I myself don’t know about in India, mostly in mallu heartland. Up until I came to the US for grad school (surprise!), I didn’t find non brown people attractive (Ok, may be I could tolerate and occasional Afganistani(sp?) woman). I didn’t think it was the lack of exposur. I went to school in Pondicherry for five years and there were a quite a few westerners with fairly pale skin and definitely wearing skimpier dresses.

    But after living in the melting pot of almost all the races, I started finding women of all color rather attractive and now I am married to a woman amongst many other amazing things is also white. So may be there is something about opening one’s eyes long enough to adjust to the whole world? Looks like I lost my chain of thought. Hopefully a mutineer will complete it soon.

  18. ‘Nite all–thanks (esp. to Anna, but also to all the commentators) for such an interesting read. Again in the sake of candor, I do wonder how many ABD women posters want to assert their independence (which is cool in principle) but actually do prefer a Desi guy (in practice)–otherwise, I may have to give in to my moms and go with a marriage to a woman back in India, which I don’t oppose in principle, just in practice (i.e, the ones I’ve met on recent trips “home”). But, maybe she could come up with a Stephanian or something. Better cut my losses here–‘nite.

    ..

  19. Jamie Skipper is Desi and she married a Caucasian (never mind that Desis are Caucasian, too).

    Anna, I THINK you are technically and factually wrong in the bracketed statement. I don’t think Dravidians are Caucasians. And not all Desis are Aryans who are probably more closely linked to Caucasians. I may be wrong on this so if anyone wants to leap in to correct are welcome. I also don’t want this thread to degenerate to race controversies of desis but to the extent the bracketed statement is factually correct I think my statement is correct too.

  20. Oh, wow.

    Brij, I THINK you are wrong, and dealing with some ancient and toxic misinformation, but I’ll defer to my betters, especially Razib.

  21. I should call it a night as well… but Rob –

    With DBDs there are some interesting intercultural issues that come in to play as well as you probably have already experienced. For example, I’m in an ABD… a couple of some really great DBD guys I’ve been set up with have made comments that I would consider horribly ignorant, racist and judgemental about black people. Offhanded comments like, “An African restaurant, yuck! I’d never go there.” Or, “Blacks are just lazy. And it’s genetic. Africa has the world’s poorest countries if they were smart they wouldn’t be in the bottom 10%.” HORRIBLE comments in my opinion.

    And these are from supposedly brilliant IITian, Ivy League graduate students, even ‘Stephenians’ (I think you meant Stephens College at DU?). Yet they hold these types of beliefs. I don’t think these DBDs are particularly hateful or bad people. I just think they’ve grown up with these beliefs all around them and haven’t really heard good challenges to them. And they themselves don’t happen to be the types to challenge social convention – people who challenge convention in India may not always be the ones to do well in the conventional sense and therefore be the types I’d encounter here in the US.

    But it’s definitely an issue and dealbreaker – even though these guys may be progressive in many other ways.

    Anyway, enough of my random babble… I’m probably just adding to the comment count not much else by way of the discussion. πŸ˜‰ Good night all!

  22. Anna, I THINK you are technically and factually wrong in the bracketed statement. I don’t think Dravidians are Caucasians. And not all Desis are Aryans who are probably more closely linked to Caucasians.

    For the love of…again?! So soon? SCYTHIAN ALERT! EMERGENCY!!

    thumbs frantically through tirukural

  23. thumbs frantically through tirukural

    oh man the only thing I can remember is the couplet about how when the priest farts it’s not really a fart.

  24. Accidental Enlightenment:

    I don’t disagree with anything you said–thanks. G’nite (for real now).

  25. Hello mutineers, very interesting read. Kudos to Anna! Well, I’m 19 yrs old and seeing the mutineer demographic is mainly in their mid-20’s to mid-30’s…I hope I dont end up bitter when I get to that age. I won’t comment on who i’ve dated and what not. ; )

    In terms of dating, my personal preference based off 1)physical attractiveness 2)personality 3)intelligence 4)compatibility:

    1)Spanish (Spain, Argentina, Venezuela, Brazil only) & Italian (Italy, Brazil only) 2)Axis of beauty – Lebanese, Persian & Turkish 3)Swedish Blonde 4)UK Desi girls (London is insane, innit?) ; ) . . . . . . 11)Indian American 12)White American

    Before I get flamed on here, please keep in mind that I’m 19 yrs old.

  26. do you think there are more emasculating stereotypes in popular media of East Asian men as opposed to South Asians?

    yes. quantitatively for sure. brown guys blow up airplanes. if i let my facial hair grow i look like i’m going to go ‘sleeper.’ if an east asian guy does that he looks like a dirty dork πŸ˜‰

  27. 211 · Shalini on July 29, 2007 12:45 AM · Direct link Anna, if you’re in the mood for post requests, could you do one on virginity. I’m a 31 year-old virgin and want to know what the record is for Mutineers. Thanks

    I agree with Shalini. I’m wondering this as well.

  28. Brij, I THINK you are wrong, and dealing with some ancient and toxic misinformation, but I’ll defer to my betters, especially Razib.

    as i’ve said before. on average

    1) any gene in a brown person is more likely to be related to another brown person than a non-brown person. this includes punjabis too, they are more likely to have a gene ‘identical by descent’ with a tamil than a persian, though to be fair a large minority of punjabi genes are identical by descent with persians to a nearer degree than with tamils.

    2) if you cluster populations as ‘macro-races’ brown (south asians) are closer to west eurasians (middle eastern & europeans) than they are east eurasians.

    3) so you can draw the line where you want to. old school physical anthropologists considered brown people caucasoid/australoid admixtures to various degrees, with more caucasoid than austaloid (especially in the NW). that is why brown people were classified as ‘caucasian.’ but in today’s america ‘caucasian’ has become synonymous with white. e.g., i’ve seen middl easterners described as ‘non-caucasian,’ when genetically they are closer to genuine caucasians (from georgia & armenia) than most europeans.

    peace out.

  29. 230:

    I’m hoping from that list that you’re a female! Turkish women–not so much–and this isn’t just a Desi view (see, e.g., Dalrymple’s “In Xanadu: A Quest” for an Oxbridge view!).

    ‘nite for sure now!

  30. Uhh–I see from your #4 that you’re either a male or a lesbian, so are apparently into the Turkish women either way–my bad–chacun a son gout!

  31. a couple of some really great DBD guys I’ve been set up with have made comments that I would consider horribly ignorant, racist and judgemental about black people

    You did not have to be that politically correct. Here let me help you.

    As a DBD I attest to the fact that I have seen a fair share of my peeps being horribly ignorant, racist and judgmental about almost everything. I guess it comes from the fact that they hardly used logic or got called out back home.

    Ahh that explains why I always get his voice mail…

    ‘nite for sure now!

    Rob: Keep this up and you will make the to-be-snuffed list at the meetup.

  32. @223, @224 and with the disclaimers from 222 remaining in effect –

    dude, she used the word “desi”…not “dravidian” they’re not equivalant, “desi” is far broader in application than “dravidian” I THINK you are wrong, and dealing with some ancient and toxic misinformation

    I understand that terms Desi in the context of Indian-Americans is far more broader term than the term dravidian in the sense that it may include people from different races white, black, latino, etc. etc. with some degree of Indian ancestry. But from a purely Indian context ( read aryan, dravidian and mix aryan-dravidian) I am not sure whether “Desis are Caucasian” is a completely true statement. Also once when I inadvertently blurted out white folks while discussing politics with my white female colleague (Berkeley product) she interjected/corrected me with the term “caucasian” folks as opposed to “white” folks.

    I would appreciate if somebody enlightened me with these tricky race issues

  33. Spicy Brown Munda wrote: In terms of dating, my personal preference based off 1)physical attractiveness 2)personality 3)intelligence 4)compatibility: 1)Spanish (Spain, Argentina, Venezuela, Brazil only) & Italian (Italy, Brazil only) 2)Axis of beauty – Lebanese, Persian & Turkish 3)Swedish Blonde 4)UK Desi girls (London is insane, innit?) ; ) . . . . . . 11)Indian American 12)White American

    That’s pretty amusing, really. You’ve prioritized the desirability of women of various geographic and ethnic backgrounds based on, among other things, intelligence and personality?

  34. Uhh–I see from your #4 that you’re either a male or a lesbian, so are apparently into the Turkish women either way–my bad–chacun a son gout!

    munda (punjabi) = male

    LOL @ chacun a son gout

  35. Also once when I inadvertently blurted out white folks while discussing politics with my white female colleague (Berkeley product) she interjected/corrected me with the term “caucasian” folks as opposed to “white” folks.

    i think it is the new PC way to say white. i’ve gotten into arguments with my liberal white girlfriends about the term because i just prefer the more accurate ‘white’ or ‘european.’ ‘caucasian’ to me means people from the caucasus, in whom i have a non-trivial interest.

  36. Way to put an interesting topic out there, Anna!

    I was involved with guy from the South for over four years, and it was not easy going, at least when we went back to India. I joined him at a friends wedding and from the time we landed (on our separate flights; I was staying in a hotel, not with him at his parents) he was odd. First, he told his friends I had actually continued on somewhere else in Asia (this being a big Indian wedding, it’s not like they’d be overly surprised at one guest out the hundreds going AWOL). Then he must have felt guilty and told them I was here, so I was produced for the mehndi party. You shoulda’ seen the reax I got at the wedding events, especially from the women; halfway between what-are-you-doing-here looks-of-death and jaws hanging open. And what does the Big Man do? Disappear to chat with anyone and everyone but me, as I made conversation with his friends. Then, just before I return home, I was begrudgingly invited over for a meal with the folks. You could have heard a pin drop in between the monosyllabic answers to my trying-to-keep-the-conversation going questions.

    Why did I put up with his behavior? Because he was the sweetest guy when we were together in the US. He started out as a skinny, plaid-wearing socially awkward guy, but as we were together he morphed into a sculpted, well-dressed hero type, and oh, did the aunties love him. He was the Pefect Boy.

    We originally met online, in a discussion space that had nothing to do with dating, and I had been happy to leave it at that after months and months of emailing back and forth, until he made the fateful “Want to meet for coffee?” question. Funny enough, I was actually a little disppointed by his looks when we first met, but that changed as I grew to know him and love him.

    Even I thought he was perfect (he cooked! he cleaned! he was superclose to his mother, so he must understand women, right?), and agreed to move in with him, in spite of both families disapproval. Little did I know he was being pursued and kissed (and not trying to hard to dissuade) by the Italian-American office girl whose mafioso husband was in jail, and another co-worker, a black woman who was about 20 years his senior, who we socialized with. (To echo someone else’s question, where is the sisterly unity among us women??)

    Shortly after we moved in together, his behind-my-back activities got worse. I discovered a year after the fact that he had put his profile up on an Indian dating site (describing himself as someone I barely recognized, and his ideal date as my polar opposite). Through all this time, I was ignorant of his activities and happy that his was the first and last face I saw every day, and couldn’t quite understand why he was often critical of me. And I bent myself out of shape to be nice to his parents, who ignored every holiday greeting card, and occasional gift, I sent. Way to go, Amma and Appa.

    It got worse and worse, as you could imagine. He’d use any excuse to pick a fight. After several years living together he declared one night he wanted out. At the same time, he’d become obviously too chummy with a girl in his office who was also white, and unlike me, British.

    And it ended. In our last few days and weeks together before he moved into his new place, he got up to all sorts of stuff (and left all sorts of incriminating SMS messages on his phone, dumb a$$), and has just recently married a British girl (same one he was unfaithful with? don’t know….) with a ceremony there and here in the US.

    I always knew he’d marry before me. In a strange way, it’s been a liberating drop of the other shoe and validation that I guessed right. After reading Vic’s comments and seeing how much they openly abhorred me, I wonder what sort of a relationship this girl will have with his folks. I think by now they were under so much pressure from their community about him still being single, they’re probably relieved he didn’t declare himself gay at some point (though some of his friends did ask me after we split). My parting advice to her would be to keep an eye on his cel phone and his email records, not now, but a few years down the line, or when she becomes pregnant.

    And me, would I date another desi guy? Hard to say. I had strong ties to and friends in the community years before I ever met him, and still do, and have been back to India a variety of times since he slithered out of our home. I know, of course, and not just intellectually but deep in my gut, that his bad behavior was not the result of his country of origin, but, in part, because he was less world-traveled and experienced than I was, and hey, there are just some bad folks out there. More than avoiding desi guys, it’s men in general I’ve kept away from. I still just can’t get my head around the fact that some one you love, and who allegedly loves you, would treat you that way and betray you so horribly, over and over, for such a long time.

    Oh, and vis-a-vis that condom study, sadly for me and his new bride, he skews true to the findings. πŸ˜‰

  37. That’s pretty amusing, really. You’ve prioritized the desirability of women of various geographic and ethnic backgrounds based on, among other things, intelligence and personality?

    Yeh, mate. That was my intent! : D

  38. Gori in Joisey

    Your story sounds familiar. Have you posted about it on SM before?

  39. yes, but i will attest to a positive skewness in the distribution πŸ˜‰ n = 1.

    lol, razib. I would attest to a positive skewness too. though I too could only lay claims to n=1

  40. 242:

    Thanks, and I’m truly glad you shared–it’s always enriching to read about something like that in 3 minutes rather than have to go through it in 3 years. . . . peace be upon you, etc.

    I dunno–I can’t sleep b/c, I guess, this post has taught me that I can’t necessarily expect to marry a “nice” (and I also see that “nice” involves my own (well, parents?) criteria, which are not necessarily objectively “nice,” though I do hold them, and no need to lie here) ABD girl–not to be weird, but my mother, who is DBD, would be–and I kid you not–shocked–to read this blog thread–this is not meant as a criticism of anyone–far from it–the points being made by some about culture as a living thing are well-taken by me, and well-educated people in general, I think–though it’s really more than education, b/c my moms does have a PhD from a US Univ.–time in “liberal” culture, perhaps?–but–this and other Sepia Mutiny posts have also shown me my own prejudices, at times, some of which I (hope) I can discard soon/ASAP, and others of which I hope I hope I can look on as (non-offensive) mere eccentricities.

  41. Tuskers (almost afraid to ask why you chose that handle?),

    No, ’twas not I.

    I think there’s probably more than a few of us out there, but with happier endings I hope. After my big break-up, I met a girl involved with a guy from a small town outside a smaller city down south, and his parents were also upset over his choice, but I think the couple were plodding on ahead (the difference there is these guys were happy to be committed to each other and “only” living together, but not marrying). Don’t know if they decided to tie the knot what would have happened.

    Funny someone ran that Little India link about the Irish guy; they also had a column years ago by some white girl who got involved with a desi guy who dumped her and, I think, turned around and married a girl from within his community. Her tone was “you Indian guys should think twice before you get involved with a white girl and not take it seriously” (that’s a very rough summary on my part).

    Speaking of Ireland, I wonder how similar situations of interracial marriage and dating are in England, and the whole ABD/DBD dynamic compared to here.

  42. inter-ethnic marriages in the UK: People from South Asian backgrounds were the least likely of the minority ethnic groups to be married to someone from a different ethnic group. Only 6 per cent of Indians, 4 per cent of Pakistanis, and 3 per cent of Bangladeshis had married someone outside the Asian group. As well as cultural and racial differences, people from South Asian backgrounds generally have different religions to people from other ethnic groups which may explain their relatively low inter-marriage rate. People who described their ethnicity as Γ’β‚¬ΛœOther AsianÒ€ℒ were more likely to have married a non-Asian person (18 per cent).

  43. Curley hair rocks, best feeling in the world when you can bury your face in a mountain of curls. Hard to breath sometimes. πŸ˜‰