…because according to some commenters, apparently, it isn’t. Suddenly there are commentS about hot Desi girls choosing white guys over their own— and I emphasize the plural aspect of “comment”, because that’s what caught my attention– this wasn’t some one-off virtual rant. Frankly, Mr. Shankly, I’m shocked. While some of the people who are leaving the eyebrow-raising statements seem to be new, I’m fully aware that the normal pattern of Sepia engagement is:
Random Googling –> Sepia? What the-? –> Hmmm, interesting –> Lurking –> and then finally, posting.
If these anti-miscegenation fans have followed that tried-and-true process, then they’d be aware that there are more than a few members of the Mutiny community who are the products of interracial unions; I can’t imagine that they’d be so tactless as to disparage such pairings when they reflect someone like Siddhartha, Desidancer or SemiDesiMasala’s ancestry.
So, maybe these are just mischief-instigating trolls, having some wicked fun via drive-by hate-spewing.
Or are they?
I think there’s more to this– and that’s why I’m publishing this post. Let’s have it out, then. Some of you seem to be in the mood to REALLY tell us what you think, so here’s your deluxe chance. Almost everyone here is anonymous. 🙂 It’s safe to be honest.
The following comments were left on my post about a woman named Aarti being chosen as one of the cuter people on the Hill:
hillside: Also I’ve never dated an Indian girl either, probably partly because so many of the hot ones like the two on this list are into white dudes. [sm]
Sheetal: (referring to comment above)
I’ve noticed this too. What is up with that? [sm]
Sheetal followed that comment by excerpting the following portion of the Hill article, making sure to highlight certain significant words by “bolding” them.
Skipper is a native of Chicago but both parents are from India — something that had worried her when it came to the issue of marriage. The handsome man in church soon became her boyfriend, but he was American and Caucasian, far from what she thought her parents would ever accept.
Okay, loud and clear. Jamie Skipper is Desi and she married a Caucasian (never mind that Desis are Caucasian, too). Yet another commenter seemed to agree with hillside and Sheetal:
Kannan: its interesting that you bring this up..We have parallels with the asian community. I’ve heard/seen that before. Hot lil Korean spinner would rather hook up with tall lanky white dude than someone from her race and its kind of common because I know a lot of my asian brothers who want to date from their race gripe and bitch about it:) Its almost like an invisible social hierarchy And the same goes for desi guys, I have a lot of friends who date white girls just because they think it brings them more social value” Look at me FOB minority guy pulling from the majority race” However for me its never really been race, its whether I was attracted to the person or not and it so happens I have never gone brown 🙂 [sm]
Kannan, I think your final sentence encapsulates how most of us feel, but that doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t explore the other sentiments I’ve highlighted.
SM is at its best when we are honestly, openly and sometimes painfully hashing out the issues that our community/others refuse to acknowledge or discuss; I didn’t put this post up in order to invite you to pillory “hillside” and “Sheetal”. They weren’t abusive, they were blunt. I wrote this post because I wanted to know how the rest of you felt. The thing is, I am almost certain that they aren’t alone and that more of you agree with them than we realize. Maybe it’s time to call ourselves out.
To be brutally honest, I’ve been there. Years ago, I crushed on Desi guys who only seemed to “swing one way”; I’ve been let down gently by being told that:
If I did date Indian girls, you’d totally be my type.
I’m just not attracted to dark skin…I like pink nipples (!) (this from someone even darker than me)
and the best one, ever,
Um, I could never go out with you because it would be like dating my sister. White girls don’t remind me of relatives.
And what do black and Asian girls remind you of? It’s so telling that they almost never factor in to these cringe-inducing statements, it’s always white girls who are “preferred”, which invites doubt about the sincerity behind someone’s “type”.
Predictably, each of those instances left me feeling wounded. It didn’t help matters that every time my Mother came across some seemingly eligible, compatible (read: also raised-away-from-Mallus) ummarried boy, his mother would sorrowfully lament that
“He already has girlfriend. White. Enne chayum?”.
Mom would come home, grumpy. “The second they graduate from law or med school, they run after a vellambi. Chey!”
I knew why my Mother said something so annoyingly ignorant. Encounters with unavailable, suitable boys combined with input from her coworkers, a good portion of whom are African-American, to create an explosive cocktail of hurt; soon, my Mother absorbed that odious complex about “successful POC going white”, especially after the cutest brown resident at her hospital took up with some “white nurse who wasn’t even pretty” instead of someone Indian/Pinay/Chinese/Black (all of whom were/are allegedly gorgeous, in comparison). When they heard about the brown and white coupling, my Mother’s African American office mate snorted, “typical” while Ma shook her head and sighed. She told me all about it, bitterly.
“Mommy, maybe they’re in love?”
“Podi, penne. Stop being blonde.”
“Mom you’re being unreasonable.”
“You are never going to find a boy. There are no educated Malayalee boys with three degrees. If there are, they are only interested in the white girls.”
“I don’t care how many degrees…remember? I like engineers. They usually have just one.”
“Chinammamma is right. That’s a recipe for disaster. Boy should have more degrees than girl-“
“- and be three years older, and three inches taller and blah blah blah. Spare me, Ma.”
“Make fun all you want, those things are accepted for a reason- they work. You want your husband to resent you?”
“I thought you didn’t care if I got married?”
“I don’t. It would save me money. I’d rather travel than waste all that, or put the down-payment on a house for you. I have nothing to prove to your Father’s friends and I’ve never been interested in outdoing them. I just…saw Mercy’s son and thought he was so cute. My grandchildren would have been so cute!”
All right-y, then. What’s hilarious is that my Mother had to alter her theory a year later, when “Mercy’s son” got engaged to a Punjabi girl he met in law school:
“Sho! Anyone but a Malayalee penne, eh?”
“What, Ma…now there’s a hierarchy? White, then North Indian, then South?” 😀
I didn’t really make peace with any of this until I met an adorable white guy who confessed that he liked me…only to hear me gracefully blurt out that I only date brown boys. It’s true, I can’t help it. I always have gone brown and probably always will. It’s just what I am attracted to– black hair, dark eyes, tan skin (fur optional).
The epiphany I had at that moment, while staring in to wounded blue eyes and rapidly batting blonde lashes, brought me closure and a bit of enlightenment; duh, no one has to justify whom they are attracted to, but hopefully they are acting out of their purest feelings– we can’t help whom we fall for, but we can call ourselves out if we’re nursing some bizarre colonial hangover or other therapy-requiring-issue (full disclosure: I have a family member who ONLY dates white guys, because they are the polar opposite of her strict, very Desi Dad).
There are other aspects to the complicated issue of human mixology, too– one of my dearest friends is finally in a blissful relationship. With a black man. After being repeatedly rejected by Desi guys for her tan skin and curves, she has given up on making her parents’ dreams of an Indian son-in-law come true. Instead, she found someone who will accept her just as she is; she has decided to do what makes her happy– and I am thrilled for her. I’m also broken-hearted that essentially, she has to keep her love closeted. Additionally, I would enjoy beating the fecal matter out of the last Desi she went on a blind date with, who brilliantly said, “you’d be so pretty if you weren’t so dark!”, while recoiling from her. But I’m protective and furious like that.
Look. This stuff is real. It happens. Let’s talk about it, if you are in the mood. I’m opening a safe space for exploration, if you are so inclined. You don’t have to be P.C. or fake, you just have to be respectful and courteous; controversial topics are impossible to fisk if we’re not, right?
To my fellow desi men out there: deal with it. No matter if it is 1307, 1807 or 2007, dominant men get to control females sexually. In general, there seems to be higher proportion of attarctive whites as compared to desis, but that mild advantage is magnified by the fact that white men run America. They created it, they developed it, and America is basically an extension of Europe. That’s why most compare and contrast arguments are between America and Europe and not America and Japan or America and India. When the Mongols overran Europe it was common for Mongolian military officer, despite being short and squat, to bed Germanic princesses. That’s why Genghis Khan has the most prolific bloodline on earth today with descendants all over the world. White men largely created the modern world; they are very obviously still in charge. Thats why Indian women are often desperate to, ahem..open their legs for them. However, like all imbalances this too will pass with the generations. Already whiteness of the US and even Europe is being diluted so in a few generations the man in charge may be a brown person of mixed background; predictably this individual will them have success with the ladies. It’s power and dominance guys, just the way it has always been.
anand – I’m just delurking so I don’t know if this is a joke/sarcasm. Because otherwise…aside from being ridiculously offensive and just plain wrong, your theory ignores basic relationship criterion like, you know, attraction. As for this notion of ‘White men [being] obviously in charge’ – call me naive, but I don’t see how this (misrepresented and inaccurate) fact comes into play in a relationship at all – regardless of race. I don’t think life is a giant casting couch.
Anand, I think your attitude may be one reason why desi and other women seek out white American men over their own kind; they are believed to be less about male dominance and more about partnership, equal exchange and pleasing women sexually rather than dominating them sexually.
In fact, why don’t perform an experiment and change that attitude of yours and perhaps you will have more luck with the ladies.
Interesting conversation… I personally don’t spend a lot of time taking the cultural “big picture” into account when I’m becoming besotted with someone and have a hard time believing that other people do…I am usually just wandering around minding my own business and some guy – Indian, Irish or Martian (hey, I’m open minded) will say something clever or funny or witty (or all three!) and all of a sudden BAM! I discover that this ordinary fellow is actually pretty dang dishy…
The idea of culture is interesting to me – many people talk about this culture or that culture as if it is something static when, in fact, cultures are constantly evolving. That is just the way it works – a “culture” is organic – it grows and changes. It is a just a reflection of the people that make it up. I recently got into a rather heated discussion with my mother who lives in FL about language. She feels very strongly that anyone coming over to the US needs to learn English because this is “part of the culture”. My take was that the culture’s language is dictated by what the people speak (English, French, German, Spanish, Hindi, whatever), not the other way around. By the mere act of coming to the US and by being absorbed into it, new residents have changed the culture a bit. This isn’t new – it has always been this way. Personally, I think that this makes the culture even richer.
Cultures can stretch to include couples of all shades – and their children…and, of course, this is what is happening and what has always happened.
For anyone keeping score: I’m a US born woman of Irish/German/Cherokee extract who found this site because an Indian man DID say something funny, clever and witty and…BAM! :0)
anand = bliss bliss = ingnorance ergo…anand = ignorance
Keep talking buddy. You’re making the rest of look even better.
Harbeer & Mera dil ke paas:
Although he choses not to use the language of a white studies professor, isn’t anand making essentially a “white privilege” argument…that what looks like simple attracton is really about relations of power?
Maybe you have some african ancestry then? Bengal was ruled by african muslim warlords (the Habshis) a few centuries ago, and they must have liberally spread their genes around in the native population
well, quantitatively it might be much, but genealogically the probability that most bengalis have some african ancestry is high. but that’s true for all indians (the genealogical calculus is pretty overwhelming).
Manju: I’m not so sure that you or Anand or I or anybody else can apply Marxist analysis in trying to understand something so complex as attraction–there’s too many variables involved. Sure, some people make dating/marriage choices based on the status that those choices may afford them, but this not true of everybody. Anand’s comment implies that we all value money (or political power) equally, which is just a false assumption. For example, think of the stock “rich girl” character who seeks a “bad boy” to piss her daddy off–the “rich girl” clearly values the “bad boy”‘s rebellious image more than she values his (lack of) money.
Aside from the tactless and offensive language, Anand’s response is simplistic and wrong. He also seems to be extolling “virtues” in Genghis Khan which would be defined as “rape” according to contemporary mores.
btw Mera dil ke paas: shouldn’t you be Mere Dil ke Paas. Each time I read your name my mind gets discomfited and has to internally change it to Mere Dil ke Paas. It is very exhausting.
Just to put some “ghee” to stoke the fire of conversation amongst mutineers about parental perspectives –
Assuming that most ABDs who are in the dating/marriage scene today are from parents who came to US in the 70s-80s when India was closed/inward looking/socialist and hence the parents were probably more conservative wrt to race of their children’s gf/bf/spouse. In abt 5-10 yrs the new parents are going to be from a different kind of India, would they ever care what their kids do ? Also note that US embassies are very selective in giving visas..they allow only educated and/or financially well of Indians to come here in the first place. So more and more Indians settling down here are probably going to be globally integrated. Or is it that educated, being financially well off, globally integrated etc. does not necessarily mean more liberal in thinking ?
To #128 Not all black men have a rampant lust for white women please get your facts straight before you generalize all black men. Most of the black men I know are married to black women. So I will deny that black men have a rampant lust for white women that sounds like some KKK type thinking.
I have noticed that quite a few desi babes with nice features but pucca skin (Deep tanned) go for white boys. The desi boys may still harbor some prejudice about the dark skin color, and the girls may not get the best of the desi bunch. The whites just look at the features and darkie gal may get a better deal looks wise by being with a gora. Some of it could be that they want their offsprings to be lighter than them, as they always had to face snide remarks on skin color by aunties etc. There are too many issues at work besides the conventional ones in desi world.
(Taken from #12)
This is certainly true for me, I don’t mean to sound proud about it, it’s just the way I am – born with, my preference. Like me my girlfriend is Indian 1st gen and tall, unlike me she’s skinny and hence very attractive to me, with long black hair. That TYPE of girl I find is attractive to many Indian guys I know, tall, thin, long (usually straight) black hair. Perfection 😉 I’m just glad #12 accepts this and moves on, its better than staying bitter about it, well done.
The desi boys may still harbor some prejudice about the dark skin color
or how about the fam?
I don’t mean to sound proud about it
i don’t mean to sound about my 10 inch cock either 😉 LOL.
is dating White not right?/i>
For some people, no. As a Hindu, I would find it most discomfiting having to accede to some ersatz universalism in my religio-cultural outlook, and prefer continuing in the cultural framework I was born in, because it was the way of my forefathers, who were blessed for it. But to each his own. As the Chinese are fond of saying –its three generations to mlecchadom.
Meh?? Being one of the “darkie” gal you’s referring to, I can honestly say that I would love my baby to be sepia-colored and beautiful, despite the fact that her daddy’s gonna be white. Sure, I may have been regarded by my Indian brothers as not that attractive in comparison to my tan-skinned, straight-haired sistas, but I can honestly say it hasn’t afflicted my own innate conjecture that I’m pretty damn hawt. (And I’m not a hater either–I also appreciate the opposite end of the spectrum.) The fucked-up thing I tend to notice, however, is that it’s the “darkies” that seem to perpetuate the egregious idea that “white is right” and that light skin is inherently better. I can definitely say that my melanin-challenged love, and lotsa others too, would beg to differ, as do I–in the words of Black Star, my skin is the inspiration for cocoa butter, and I wouldn’t change that for the world.
I’m not sure that India’s economic policies at the time of emigration has much bearing on the way that people raise their children. However, I agree with Rushdie that the “home culture” (not his phrase) freezes in the emigrants mind at the moment that s/he leaves the home country. Thus, my sisters and I were raised in wierd hybrid of 1972 Amritsar and 1970s-90s Houston. In some regards, my parents (who are relatively liberal) were more strict in raising us than their friends back home.
Well, yes, because most parents care about what their kids do. As many above comments have stated–not even all white and black and latino families are crazy about their kids dating/marrying into other cultures.
Furthermore, each and every single one of my parents’ siblings (and there are a lot of them) emigrated to the US in the 1980s, and each and every single one of them is more conservative than my parents. This has more to do with their lower level of education, I think, than when they emigrated.
As I said, they also give visas to the families of US citizens. Both my parents are the eldest and best educated in their respective families. It’s more complicated than you’re making it out to be.
And in the end, after debating your points, I’m going to…agree with your conclusion. Although there are always exceptions.
You know who else is a pretty liberal bunch? People who come from (Indian) military families. For obvious reasons, they seem to have a lot less of the regional prejudices and biases which are so prevalent among the more provincial desis, in my experience.
straight-haired sistas
so do a lot of brownz straighten their hair?
I got out for dinner and you go and hit 150!
Aw, hellz yeah. I forgot about that commercial.
I actually had to go back and see what I wrote because I forgot. Actually, I am a bit bitter, but only because it will be SO difficult to explain to Mom and Dad – they’ll say I should have tried harder, wore makeup, borrowed that salwar-kameez and joined SASA already. They won’t believe me when I say that the guys weren’t interested in me.
And I didn’t close myself off to Desi guys either. Ask and you could have had the sweet sweet jalebis I had to offer (I’m not sure what that means, but the wine is hitting me hard).
The fucked-up thing I tend to notice, however, is that it’s the “darkies” that seem to perpetuate the egregious idea that “white is right” and that light skin is inherently better.
the most conventional way to accentuate your own “status” is to “put down” someone who isn’t that different, but marginally “inferior.” e.g., lighter skinned brownz take pride in their color to denigrate dark skinned brownz, but of course lighter skinned brownz are considered “swarthy” “sand niggers” by whites, and to some extent even middle easterners. there is no point in talking about how black someone is if your skin is as pale as snow. on the other hand, if you’re a lighter shade of chocolate it might behoove you to point this out to everyone, especially to your aesthetic superiors.
(think of someone from a lower middle class or middle class british background taking on pretentious airs around the blood nobility and emphasizing how graceless all their peers are)
I can honestly say that I would love my baby to be sepia-colored and beautiful, despite the fact that her daddy’s gonna be white.
you can probably calculate the expectation and the expected variance of your offspring in terms of skin color from family pedigrees. i’ve done the sums for myself 😉 (if have 3 siblings and 2 parents, so i had enough data to not need genomic sequencing to infer the genetic architecture. the rest was simply playing with binomial distributions)
Razib, what I meant is that from what I’ve noticed–particularly in my own family–it’s the darker-skinned people who tend to unconsciously denigrate their own selves by assenting to the idea that lighter skin is better, whereas I haven’t really gotten that sort of attitude from relatives who are shades lighter than me. Weird, eh? For instance, my father–who is fairly dark-skinned–used to always say awful, un-p.c. things about African Americans, particularly the women, based on their dark skin, despite the fact that he’s usually the same shade as those he’s shit-talking.
As for the straight hair, I don’t know if it’s altogether natural. I know a lot of Indian women tend to have wavy hair that they flat-iron. I, for one, have unrepentantly curly hair, another factor that I think sets me apart and perhaps decreases my appeal among the desi boys.
I am happy that we made it to 150 comments before someone had to say something crazy.
Manju: Going by Anands comment, if it really is about power, then his comment should have said, powerful men get all the women that they want. Following that trend we can derive that popular men also get all the women they want and we all know neither of those two categories comprise of only white people. If you need examples, think sports stars.
Even if he were making that argument (which he is not), it would not be true. There is a big difference between dating / being in love and doing whatever it was that Genghis Khan apparently did. I think everyone here is old enough to understand that. We have had comments in this very post that talk about how successful (and in certain ways powerful) men want a particular type of woman and not everyone makes the cut.
If you compare apples with apples, what you will find is that the above described people are more liberal when compared to their peers. You cannot compare them with the model liberals from a different background, if that makes sense.
Being educated, having a decent financial standing etc. open you up to more opportunities to question the system and to understand people and cultures. The effect of the influence is limited only by your company and your beliefs.
Interestingly I would have thought ABD guys would have got rid of this prejudice that their DBD brethren suffer from. In India there there is a lot of social prejudice coming from families etc and nothing to counter that. But here with multiple races and all that good stuff, the prejudice at home is there but there is also the ‘skin color does not matter’ school of thought being blasted at a person from all directions and that should help.
i have been dating a “white” boy the past 2 years and I plan on marrying him. Desi guys are exactly taught how to treat a girl. Parents usually spend more time telling them to stay away from girls then teaching them how to treat a woman and be a gentlemen. At least that how it been in my life since I have dated my share of desi guys also.
-it’s the darker-skinned people who tend to unconsciously denigrate their own selves by assenting to the idea that lighter skin is better, whereas I haven’t really gotten that sort of attitude from relatives who are shades lighter than me. Weird, eh? For instance, my father–who is fairly dark-skinned–used to always say awful, un-p.c. things about African Americans, particularly the women, based on their dark skin, despite the fact that he’s usually the same shade as those he’s shit-talking.
hm. interesting. well, to be frank, dark brown people have strong reasons to denigrate blacks, if they are pretty dark they are easily confused for blacks if they have “non-sharp features” and “curly hair.” and perhaps they verbalize their skin color issues more because they’ve had to deal with it their whole life. if you are the apple of your mother’s eye you probably aren’t particularly conscious of it. i have 6 uncles, and of them is rather dark, and his father would abuse him on account of that. that left him with more color/appearance issues than my fairer-skinned uncles, who seem more comfortable in their skin. (my dark uncle too refuge in religion, where at least he could be assured people wouldn’t be explicit about their prejudices because appearance shouldn’t matter)
Ardy, I think that although ABD guys may be a little more progressive than DBDs, and wouldn’t outright admit to having a preference for lighter-skinned women, that preference is indubitably hard-wired into them by relatives. And I may be wrong, but the onus usually seems to be on the female to be light-skinned and live up to a specific standard of beauty. At least in my family, the women in generations prior to mine were light-skinned and married darker-skinned men but simply hoped their kids would take after them.
But this isn’t at all unique to the Indian community. Even among Latino, East Asian and African American communities, there’s a cultural preference for lighter skin and less “ethnic” features, if that makes any sense.
On my part, I do feel a little wistful that I never got a chance with a hawt, progressive, funny smart and socially conscious desi dude, if only for some of the shared cultural understanding, which is difficult to convey to non-brown people. I’m a little more passive in my approach to dating, I suppose–I’d prefer someone to make their intentions known to me rather than strike up a conversation and express my own interest, perhaps because in the past this has led to the perception that I’m overly forward and a wee bit sluttish.
Sigh…maybe in my next life.
Parents usually spend more time telling them to stay away from girls then teaching them how to treat a woman and be a gentlemen
😉 that’s my momma. she was like that with my brother too. and we’ve both “gone white.”
Even among Latino, East Asian and African American communities
latin america and the african american culture have had racial caste systems for a while (“if your white, that’s alright, if you’re brown hang around, if you’re black stay back!”). the east asian fad for “european” features is relatively new (japanese women used to dye their hair black if it was brown, now they dye it brown and get eyelid surgery when epicanthic folds used to be considered deal).
so do a lot of brownz straighten their hair?
YES. haven’t you ever noticed packs of desi girls with the exact same stick-straight-moving-somewhat-unnaturally hair? naturally straight hair just moves and feels differently; i don’t care how amazing or expensive a girl’s flat iron or magic perm is, i can always pick the fakers out. and on a related note, the majority of the indian guys i know won’t hesitate to profess their love for straight hair or compliment you (ok, me) only when your hair is straight. some of my desi male friends have even told me, while i was wearing it wavy, that it looks better straight. although, come to think of it, everyone but desi males and my own parents says it looks better curly. more sigh.
I actually had to go back and see what I wrote because I forgot. Actually, I am a bit bitter, but only because it will be SO difficult to explain to Mom and Dad – they’ll say I should have tried harder, wore makeup, borrowed that salwar-kameez and joined SASA already. They won’t believe me when I say that the guys weren’t interested in me.
And I didn’t close myself off to Desi guys either. Ask and you could have had the sweet sweet jalebis I had to offer (I’m not sure what that means, but the wine is hitting me hard).
chicagodesidiva, I don’t know you of course but from your posts you sound like a nice person – I really think that you’ve just been unlucky with your encounters with Indian guys, yes most seem to like the super skinnies but as you say and as I know from people around me thats not always the case. If you look reasonably good but aren’t so thin and you’re a decent and good person like you sound I honestly believe a lot of Indian guys will appreciate that more than anything if they spend some time with you. I plan to marry my gf soon and its not because she’s just skinny it is becasue she is a great person and that truly is the most important thing. I’m punjabi like you too by the way and so is my girlfriend, my gfs just got lucky with genes, her sister’s not like her and neither am I, although I’m no Jabba from Star Wars 🙂
What you say about explaining yourself to parents is precisely the reasons I have never seriously considered dating a white or any other girl from another race (and why it was so easy to let my parents know I would like to marry mine). Yes I can ultimately do whatever I choose if I assert myself strongly but at what cost I think to myself? I would like to be happy but I also want my parents to be happy too. I have no problems at all with Indian girls or guys who choose to date / marry people of other races but I just know that I don’t have the energy or the inclination to make people around me understand or accept that with me! It seems like so much hassle and potential hurting of peoples sentiments, and as well as that I have a nagging feeling that some of the things they would be worried about such as a clash of culture / ways may be true down the road. For all these reasons I have always decided that I’d try to date an Indian girls only (it helped that my personal preference physically happens to be the same!). A lot of people will think I’m being narrow minded I’m sure and they may be right, but I know what’s right for me, I know that things are just simpler this way, it’s all so much easier so I understand the predicament you are in. If you are ever serious about being with the man you are with now long term and need to tell your parents I hope it all goes well for you, if you are like me and can’t stomach doing that though, I’m sure you can find a great Indian guy too. Good luck with whatever you choose.
Milli, I wish I had curly hair. So does my Mom– she thinks I’m more attractive with curls. Meanwhile, she and my sister have to be talked out of getting PERMS.
There’s hope. 😉
::
Hmmm, maybe I should do a separate “hair” post…didn’t realize that it was on so many female minds/so many males were unaware of follicular drama…
Yeah, I think there’s definitely unspoken shame in allying oneself with the group that isn’t in power. Personally, I’ve been mistakenly lumped in with a variety of different ethnicities in the past, by both desis and non-desis…Egyptian, Polynesian, Puerto Rican, Ethiopian…I actually like the freedom of being able to be a chameleon and navigate among a variety of other cultures. It’s certainly helped me out on my travels. But then again, I think this happens to lots of brown people, fair-skinned or not?
That was my mom during my formative years, too. (“They just want you for your money or your body!”) Since then, however, she has blamed every single one of my breakups on me (“Why did you have to break that poor girl’s heart?”) and has wanted me to marry any and every girl I ever mention or bring home to her. Lately she has taken an even more “extreme” stance by dropping the marriage pleas and urging me to (at my father’s consternation) “just have a baby, you don’t even have to get married.” Moms is getting desperate.
My sister has been disowned for marrying a Pakistani Scientologist because he’ll always be a “Mussla” to my folks, although they didn’t approve of husband number two (who was also a Sikh), either.
But now I am veering off-topic and getting into my mother’s sexist double-standard.
Three cheers for the curly-haired desi girls! Methinks we need some kind of online support group or some such forum to enlighten the rest of the world that we do indeed exist? (I don’t know how many times people have asked me if I’m mixed because of my tresses. “I didn’t think curly hair was common among Indian women?” Ah, the misconceptions that run rampant.)
I used to envy the flowing manes of other desi chicks but when I realized they were probably going to have severe tress damage by the time they hit 40 from all the flat-ironing, I learned to appreciate mine.
Yayyyy. Cubed. 😉
This is exactly why desi guys have the short end of the stick in an American dating sense. It’s megatrons easier to for women to transition into the American dating scene because their role is to sit back and field requests, and knock ’em down. Where as men have the onus of starting/initiating conversations and the onus of keeping her “interested” Secondly, non-Indian men aren’t necessarily taught how to be gentlemen or treat women, infact, being a gentlemen is about as useful in a dating scene as waxing a camel’s uvula. But what differs is they face no external (but eventually internalized) stigma for socializing and eventually being comfortable around women and perfecting their body language so it doesn’t set the woman off right away.
I love my curls. I never have to worry about having an interesting hairstyle and you can actually tell me apart from the other desi girls on campus.
Viva el pelo rizado!
Since I kindof feel responsible for starting the fire the first time around, I just thought I should bring in some gas and turn up the flame the second time ïŠ
Warning: I am a bad writer, I tend to generalize, be politically incorrect, and sometimes am just plain blunt but you have to realize that I am a FOB whose been in the US of A for a couple of years and see things as they are..like all in black or white (no pun intended ïŠ ) unlike my ABD cousins who are socially programmed being brought up in an American society that they tend to accept things a certain way. So please take my opinion with a grain of salt.
First off, mad props to Anna for opening up her personal life on a public board. All I can say is Respect..Ohh BTW your mom sounds just like mine, mine speaks fairly decent Malayalam though she was born and raised in Chennai
Before even inter racial dating, I just thought I should share my view on chemistry and dating in general. I have always been intrigued with what sparks attraction between two people when they first meet at say a bar, coffeeshop, house party, (Insert your favorite venue here). My experience has taught me this, that the opposite sex is always sizing you up (for lack of a better word) to see if you are dating material during the say first 15 minutes of conversation based on three things 1) Your looks and the way you dress 2) Your personality, charisma, your ability to carry a conversation, your ability to be NOT creepy etc etc 3) Race
Now, let me emphasize on 3). I believe we as humans (that is all of us Black, White, Yellow Brown..did I leave anyone out?) tend to stereotype people based on their race, this happens more on a subconscious level. We associate a person to a set of attributes his/her race is known for. For example a white (or a black) dude who looks like a jock might have a better chance scoring with blonde hottie than a nerdy looking asian kid, thanks to the media and zillion number of teen flicks which are churned out every year. IMO when it comes to desi dudes we are pretty much clamped with the asian kids, bless our math skills and being unbelievably good in spelling bee competitions. So anytime a FOB buddy of mine comes up with the “She wont date me because I’m Indian†excuse, I believe he has not done his homework on fighting the desi stereotype, he could also be lacking in other quarters (i.e 1 and 2). I am speaking from my personal experience and feel strongly about this because all the girls I have dated or been with (predominantly white) have consistently pointed out that I was the first Indian guy they ever dated and before me they wouldn’t have considered desis because they never thought they would be their type. So when Anna told whiteboy that she dates only brown men, what she actually meant (this is purely my opinion) is that she hasn’t come across a white guy who has been able to work # 3 in his favor and sweep her off her feet. However having said all this I have had some stray cases (like a girl from Podunk County, Iowa) who said she would have dated me if I was white because she was shit scared of facing the wrath of her conservative family. So in conclusion the key to all you boys and girls who crib how people of this particular ethnic background wont date you is to work on fighting the (negative) stereotype associated with your race.. WHEW I AM DONE !!!Comments/ criticism welcome!
Hmmm, maybe I should do a separate “hair” post…didn’t realize that it was on so many female minds/so many males were unaware of follicular drama…
errr … yes … but then … what is merely a timepass would have to become a full-blown addiction! (or maybe it would be the ultimate sign of overcoming a past obsession if i ignored the whole thing!!)
there is always this: Naturally Curly for support in the meantime. 🙂
Habeer #168 – what are the obvious reasons about Indian military families being more liberal? Is it because the being close the frontlines, possibly dying any day makes them not sweat some of the smaller stuff?
And to add about straightended hair – I’d say most desi girls with straightened hair are unnaturally so. I’ve only know like a few Indian girls with stick straight hair… and they always wished it was more wavy and had more body.
milli – funny how people prefer your straight hair. I think straight looks better on me too. But when I’m lazy and my curls manage to come out well – I get a tonnn of attention, more than usual. Probably because so many girls straighten nowadays so it stands out…
Speaking of the appeal of curls, Kangana Ranaut’s hair is gorge.
I heart naturallycurly.com! After discovering that site years and years ago, I went from my sadly amla-oil soaked, slicked-back ponytails to shaking out my curls in all their boingy glory! For the record, I think men with curly hair are drool-worthy, too, especially if they know how to maintain it and have a good cut (think Adrian Grenier from Entourage–total hottie!).
wowza, only 5 minutes i took to write my post and like 5+ new posts in the meantime! so this is what an fresh n’ active SM thread is like 🙂
milli, if i were a guy, i would date you in a second. fuck all those people who dare(d) to judge you – that’s pretty much what got me through college, and most of my life – the attitude that i couldn’t care less for anybody who cares to judge me for the way i dress, look, speak, or act. the guy you want is the one who is less into the superficial – all the others who judge before they know you aren’t even worth it.
re inter-racial relations, i’ve noticed that despite my openness to dating all types of men (honestly, i really have no preference) the ones who are attracted to me are largely brown. i never take rejection (or have had reason to) as based in race, but one of my (white) friends noticed this dating pattern and took great offence to it – he was very upset with the fact that i only seemed to end up with desi guys.
neale, your system seems rather complicated – but i hope it’s working for you!
mfunnierthanyou – dispositional flaws are rather tough to deal with. though it seems like SM might be helping with that 🙂 as for the unavailable potential partners (desi or not) – you’re not alone.
curly-haired ladies – add me in, as well. i stopped the straightening a while ago, but the search is still on to tame those waves; so far, not much luck 🙁
According to this report, females are far more likely to consider race in their decisions, and white women are the most likely to prefer dating within their own race (49%)
At the risk of turning this into an unduly girlie post, I encourage you, ak, to check out naturallycurly.com. When you learn what your curly hair type is (3A, 3B, etc.), it becomes easier to pick the products that work. I used to think it was all about taming my hair ’cause I hated it, but now that I’ve got my arsenal of beauty products down pat, I can’t imagine myself sans ringlets.
Accidental Enlightenment: No, I don’t think it’s because of being anywhere near the front lines–I’ve observed this in military families no matter where they were stationed (and not just among the soldiers, themselves). The military is an institution that draws on Indians from diverse corners and strata of Indian society. They are forced to live in close proximity and interact with people from diverse backgrounds, of different religious and caste affiliations. They move around more than the average Indian, thus have exposure to multiple ways of doing things. They’re just more cosmopolitan than the average Indian whose family moved from the village to the nearest small town just one or two generations prior.
And my hair is so curly that people assume I’ve got a perm, which is kind of embarrassing for a macho guy like me. (I’m super macho, for the record.)
Thats because he wanted to tap that ass.
I wish I had curlier hair. I guess I am a faker in the other sense (and no, not that way gutter minds…well…) Thank God for Garnier curl-hold mousse for my bad hair days.