…because according to some commenters, apparently, it isn’t. Suddenly there are commentS about hot Desi girls choosing white guys over their own— and I emphasize the plural aspect of “comment”, because that’s what caught my attention– this wasn’t some one-off virtual rant. Frankly, Mr. Shankly, I’m shocked. While some of the people who are leaving the eyebrow-raising statements seem to be new, I’m fully aware that the normal pattern of Sepia engagement is:
Random Googling –> Sepia? What the-? –> Hmmm, interesting –> Lurking –> and then finally, posting.
If these anti-miscegenation fans have followed that tried-and-true process, then they’d be aware that there are more than a few members of the Mutiny community who are the products of interracial unions; I can’t imagine that they’d be so tactless as to disparage such pairings when they reflect someone like Siddhartha, Desidancer or SemiDesiMasala’s ancestry.
So, maybe these are just mischief-instigating trolls, having some wicked fun via drive-by hate-spewing.
Or are they?
I think there’s more to this– and that’s why I’m publishing this post. Let’s have it out, then. Some of you seem to be in the mood to REALLY tell us what you think, so here’s your deluxe chance. Almost everyone here is anonymous. 🙂 It’s safe to be honest.
The following comments were left on my post about a woman named Aarti being chosen as one of the cuter people on the Hill:
hillside: Also I’ve never dated an Indian girl either, probably partly because so many of the hot ones like the two on this list are into white dudes. [sm]
Sheetal: (referring to comment above)
I’ve noticed this too. What is up with that? [sm]
Sheetal followed that comment by excerpting the following portion of the Hill article, making sure to highlight certain significant words by “bolding” them.
Skipper is a native of Chicago but both parents are from India — something that had worried her when it came to the issue of marriage. The handsome man in church soon became her boyfriend, but he was American and Caucasian, far from what she thought her parents would ever accept.
Okay, loud and clear. Jamie Skipper is Desi and she married a Caucasian (never mind that Desis are Caucasian, too). Yet another commenter seemed to agree with hillside and Sheetal:
Kannan: its interesting that you bring this up..We have parallels with the asian community. I’ve heard/seen that before. Hot lil Korean spinner would rather hook up with tall lanky white dude than someone from her race and its kind of common because I know a lot of my asian brothers who want to date from their race gripe and bitch about it:) Its almost like an invisible social hierarchy And the same goes for desi guys, I have a lot of friends who date white girls just because they think it brings them more social value” Look at me FOB minority guy pulling from the majority race” However for me its never really been race, its whether I was attracted to the person or not and it so happens I have never gone brown 🙂 [sm]
Kannan, I think your final sentence encapsulates how most of us feel, but that doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t explore the other sentiments I’ve highlighted.
SM is at its best when we are honestly, openly and sometimes painfully hashing out the issues that our community/others refuse to acknowledge or discuss; I didn’t put this post up in order to invite you to pillory “hillside” and “Sheetal”. They weren’t abusive, they were blunt. I wrote this post because I wanted to know how the rest of you felt. The thing is, I am almost certain that they aren’t alone and that more of you agree with them than we realize. Maybe it’s time to call ourselves out.
To be brutally honest, I’ve been there. Years ago, I crushed on Desi guys who only seemed to “swing one way”; I’ve been let down gently by being told that:
If I did date Indian girls, you’d totally be my type.
I’m just not attracted to dark skin…I like pink nipples (!) (this from someone even darker than me)
and the best one, ever,
Um, I could never go out with you because it would be like dating my sister. White girls don’t remind me of relatives.
And what do black and Asian girls remind you of? It’s so telling that they almost never factor in to these cringe-inducing statements, it’s always white girls who are “preferred”, which invites doubt about the sincerity behind someone’s “type”.
Predictably, each of those instances left me feeling wounded. It didn’t help matters that every time my Mother came across some seemingly eligible, compatible (read: also raised-away-from-Mallus) ummarried boy, his mother would sorrowfully lament that
“He already has girlfriend. White. Enne chayum?”.
Mom would come home, grumpy. “The second they graduate from law or med school, they run after a vellambi. Chey!”
I knew why my Mother said something so annoyingly ignorant. Encounters with unavailable, suitable boys combined with input from her coworkers, a good portion of whom are African-American, to create an explosive cocktail of hurt; soon, my Mother absorbed that odious complex about “successful POC going white”, especially after the cutest brown resident at her hospital took up with some “white nurse who wasn’t even pretty” instead of someone Indian/Pinay/Chinese/Black (all of whom were/are allegedly gorgeous, in comparison). When they heard about the brown and white coupling, my Mother’s African American office mate snorted, “typical” while Ma shook her head and sighed. She told me all about it, bitterly.
“Mommy, maybe they’re in love?”
“Podi, penne. Stop being blonde.”
“Mom you’re being unreasonable.”
“You are never going to find a boy. There are no educated Malayalee boys with three degrees. If there are, they are only interested in the white girls.”
“I don’t care how many degrees…remember? I like engineers. They usually have just one.”
“Chinammamma is right. That’s a recipe for disaster. Boy should have more degrees than girl-“
“- and be three years older, and three inches taller and blah blah blah. Spare me, Ma.”
“Make fun all you want, those things are accepted for a reason- they work. You want your husband to resent you?”
“I thought you didn’t care if I got married?”
“I don’t. It would save me money. I’d rather travel than waste all that, or put the down-payment on a house for you. I have nothing to prove to your Father’s friends and I’ve never been interested in outdoing them. I just…saw Mercy’s son and thought he was so cute. My grandchildren would have been so cute!”
All right-y, then. What’s hilarious is that my Mother had to alter her theory a year later, when “Mercy’s son” got engaged to a Punjabi girl he met in law school:
“Sho! Anyone but a Malayalee penne, eh?”
“What, Ma…now there’s a hierarchy? White, then North Indian, then South?” 😀
I didn’t really make peace with any of this until I met an adorable white guy who confessed that he liked me…only to hear me gracefully blurt out that I only date brown boys. It’s true, I can’t help it. I always have gone brown and probably always will. It’s just what I am attracted to– black hair, dark eyes, tan skin (fur optional).
The epiphany I had at that moment, while staring in to wounded blue eyes and rapidly batting blonde lashes, brought me closure and a bit of enlightenment; duh, no one has to justify whom they are attracted to, but hopefully they are acting out of their purest feelings– we can’t help whom we fall for, but we can call ourselves out if we’re nursing some bizarre colonial hangover or other therapy-requiring-issue (full disclosure: I have a family member who ONLY dates white guys, because they are the polar opposite of her strict, very Desi Dad).
There are other aspects to the complicated issue of human mixology, too– one of my dearest friends is finally in a blissful relationship. With a black man. After being repeatedly rejected by Desi guys for her tan skin and curves, she has given up on making her parents’ dreams of an Indian son-in-law come true. Instead, she found someone who will accept her just as she is; she has decided to do what makes her happy– and I am thrilled for her. I’m also broken-hearted that essentially, she has to keep her love closeted. Additionally, I would enjoy beating the fecal matter out of the last Desi she went on a blind date with, who brilliantly said, “you’d be so pretty if you weren’t so dark!”, while recoiling from her. But I’m protective and furious like that.
Look. This stuff is real. It happens. Let’s talk about it, if you are in the mood. I’m opening a safe space for exploration, if you are so inclined. You don’t have to be P.C. or fake, you just have to be respectful and courteous; controversial topics are impossible to fisk if we’re not, right?
1000!
damn it missed by 1
i left for a few hours, but the conversation has come down to cut vs uncut, e-panties, and mil high clubs? sheesh
well, I am the one or…not
Personally, I like shorty. Then, when she runs away, I can yell to passers by to Get Shorty! Yes, I know that was bad.
i know as i type, someone else has the lock on 1000 …
Its hard finding a good indian Man these days, cause in my eyes all they want is skinny indian chicks, when I have curves and some cushion 🙂 Yet, it is not hard for me to find a nice black man ! I actually have one guy that wants to be with me, but I cant be with him, cause my folks would never accept him, so then what is a girl to do in these situations ? I could never imagine getting married without my parents blessing, when we are such a close family !!!
I truly believe that black men appreciate our bodies more and make us feel like a Goddess !! To me indian guys are superficial, okay not all of them, but they truly go for the looks on the outside !!! Yes i have dated indian men here and there, but it just seemed to never work out (mutual separation) but still….
But I do understand when women go and marry outside their race, cause in the Indian culture its hard to find a genuine, educated, guy these days.
Well it should be interesting on what people have to say….
Have a good night….
Congrat’s to all–esp. Anna!
Rahul, not “Shorty swing my way“?
I can’t believe I missed 1000 by 2 posts. Congrats, HMF 😉
There was an “up” for the conversation to come “down” to this?
By the way, I feel like the last 30 minutes were all of us working up to some kind of frenetic fever pitch, and now we’re all in this sweaty, spent, post-climax mode. Or maybe I’m reading too much into things 😉
Do you know who Luis Sojo is?
He got the game winning hit in the 2000 world series,
It was the last year the yankees won.
He wasn’t a great player, actually I think a pinch hitter…
…but just a lucky #$@(#$ at the right place, at the right time.
pankaj @ 990 said:
Pshaw! What is this “might be?” I was called a shitty writer, and I liked it!
Thanks A N N A, and everybody else.
how did this conversation come to luis sojo. do i smell a yankee fan out there?
Yes, and I’m holding my nose 🙂
I have already talked about redsox/yankee relationships
bloody hell! how did I miss being 1000
HMF, you lucky biatch/bastard 😛
SM Intern/Anna, can you ppplllease delete 6 comments before mine and declare me the “lucky bastard”
perhaps not – sometimes it’s better to go straight down – in which case, the directions might/hopefully be reversed 😉
camille – it is very sad how our southern parents (and youngsters) don’t value dancing for happiness. i really want to go to a big fat punjabi wedding – have some kind of weird fantasy about how great (at least the dancing) would be.
For cryin out loud, i think it’s pretty damn clear what gender i am.
Uncut or cut
Considering we rarely see pornos with uncut, I assume to my dismay that the junta wants uncut. I also noticed that the apres 2000 pornos have guys all shaved. So thinking I would give someone a surprise…I got the scissors and razor, and got the job only half done before nicks and cuts put a stop to it. The shaved uncut look is not for the desi boys, and perhaps that is the reason some of our ‘influenced’desi gals go to other races. Not fair.
thank you vic!
Me fancy mediterranean goddesses,
~’Nefertiti to Aphrodite’~ …Mediterranean beauty has destroyed entire civilizations
From Albania to Cyprus, Egypt, Greece, the French riviera, Israelis to Italian bellas, the Lebanese (especially those that can bellydance) and red hot spaniards, to mention only a few. Everyone knows the finest ladies rise from the mediterranean seas, theres somethin in the water.
I LIKE, VERY NICE!
now you can see how much more painful it must be for the ladies. but did you really do this after watching porn, or after seeing kal penn do the same in harold&kumar? btw just to reassure you, vic, i don’t think even women who are vehement about their cut vs uncut preference or as, if at all, so when it comes to hair.
Folks, now that the sound barrier has been breached, I believe we may want to focus the brown spotlight on Shark Week. They need to profile Shark attacks in the Sundarbans, I demand a brown angle to Shark Week!
Unless y’all want to SR-71 Blackbird this and take it Mach 3. It may put strain on SM Intern though. That’s some serious stress the system needs to handle!
Vic,
Use blunt-ended scissors (like the kind used for bandages) for thinning out the bushes. Then try a “womans” razor for the finer details. I recommend the Soleil.
Just tryin’ to be helpful.
gujudude, is it shark week???? i always look forward to it, and then always miss it..
Not just any Shark week, it’s the 20th Anniversary of it. Although, the bait on this thread about brown dating discussion may be more alluring chum for the audience.
Thanks…Now I can try the chinstrap look that I always wanted down there
GujuDude, is that some sort of metaphorical allusion to prowling, hunting, and so on? Especially now that certain members have decided to hunt together in packs. I think I need to get on dry land and hide under strong shelters now.
Well, mine is 9″.. or is it 7″.. 😕 well I gotta measure it again, damn! … it better be 8″ 😉
gujudude – thanks for keying me in – i actually have cable during the most significant shark week yet 🙂 let the DVR roll
the southies you know must be pretty stiff.
SL Tams seem to get down whether bidden or unbidden. Then again, the arrak-soaked lurching and gyrating at SL tam/singhala weddings can be a bit frightening to the unseasoned observer…as will the lusty renditions of Suraaaaaaaaaaaangani
to #1009:
East Coast girl, I’m not saying you should defy your parents, but if the black guy who you’re dating is decent to you and also knowledgeable about your culture, I think Ma and Pa may have to learn to get along with their son-in-law-to-be, if he really is a great guy. I say go for it.
Camille wrote:
So what you are saying is that you are in the refractory period?
I have read every single comment.
Muralimannered… which city are you in? Because my heart goes pitterpat for you. 😉
And yes, I de-lurked after 1038 comments to ask that.
at this point after reading the post count I’d just like to shout out a big: OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn, are we still at it???? 1042????
I was thinking about the many comments left on this thread and it came to me. You know what you guys need?? A CHATROOM!!! Clearly everyone is more chatting than commenting on a thread like this, a chatroom would be quite fitting. Just a suggestion!
I was thinking about the many comments left on this thread and it came to me. You know what you guys need?? A CHATROOM!!! Clearly everyone is more chatting than commenting on a thread like this, a chatroom would be quite fitting. Just a suggestion!
i IMed this suggestion to ennis earlier today actually. i told him an AJAX app should be pretty easy.
Yeah–I think we’ve got enough peeps here addicted to Sepia Mutiny that a chatroom is feasible–but let’s make sure that’s OK w/ the founders, though–after all, they’ve built this up–it could be OK if the founders are cool with it–otherwise, though, I have to say no–it is their baby. And there are subtle but important differences between the written and spoken (which I would think includes chat-room, in a sense, although already that dicthotomy is breaking down).
‘nite, all.
How would we know if shark week jumped the shark? Would it be when the Discovery Channel is compelled to include footage of a shark doing a graceful leap over a floating human? Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water… Henry Winkler was thrown in!
Since i’m fond of easily solveable riddles, I’ll go with this:
“Where Stonewall Jackson stares down Arthur Ashe under the shade of stars ‘n bars, where travelers from major airline markets complain about the price of flying in and where Atticus Finch was laid to rest.”
that should be enough for any ex-lurker.
It’s also a place in which browns from big cities could not conceive of living–but many do, and thrive, not despite the contrary conditions but BECAUSE of it.
Although, the female plurality is highest in the NY/NJ metro area, neighborhoods here have their battle lines drawn pretty firmly, especially with public transport being the popular mode de transport. Crossing the Hudson makes crossing the Rubicon a walk in the park.
Hmmm. A chat room? Razib is someone whom I trust, so I promise that I’m not dismissing his/your suggestion, at all…
I respectfully disagree– there is more commenting vs. chatting, on this thread. In fact, I was answering someone last night, who knows me so well, who asked if this was actually still open, about why I HADN’T closed it.
“Yeah. Because people are still on-topic, which is something I’m proud of and kinda shocked by. Anyway, everyone should get to have their say.”
PA, are you thinking of that amusing burst of giddiness when we neared “1000”? Relative to the other 1000 comments, it’s a tiny portion of the overall conversation, no? 🙂
Despite what one asshole troll alleged, I’m not a comment whore. I don’t leave “mega-threads” open unless they are viable and valuable, for exactly this reason– to me, this is NOT a chat room. I hope I’m expressing myself well…I am in dire need of caffeine and am so tired, I can’t even see straight…but between someone suggesting putting ads up (which had me diving for my epi pen) and this, I’m so startled, I’ll risk sounding daft.
I’m not opposed to chat rooms, but I wouldn’t spend part of every waking hour of my day shepherding and watching over one…I’m devoted to the discussion, if that makes sense…
Heres a question…when I was yammering on about skinny grls, people assumed automatically that im not “progressive” (whatever that means). then in the same breath people talked about how they want a guy taller than 5 foot 10. isnt this just the female equivalent of the same thing? How is one right and the other wrong? wtf? good for grls to do but not guys?!
Good point. Plus I think chatrooms don’t allow for people to read & digest the comments in the same way. But chatrooms coexisting with the current system would be alright I guess, but would be more labor intensive for the mods.
PidUSA wrote:
To me, they are one in the same – some physical quantity you use to relay your preferences. IMHO, there’s nothing wrong with it. We all have our likes and dislikes. I think the hope is that there are standards beyond just the physical ones.