…because according to some commenters, apparently, it isn’t. Suddenly there are commentS about hot Desi girls choosing white guys over their own— and I emphasize the plural aspect of “comment”, because that’s what caught my attention– this wasn’t some one-off virtual rant. Frankly, Mr. Shankly, I’m shocked. While some of the people who are leaving the eyebrow-raising statements seem to be new, I’m fully aware that the normal pattern of Sepia engagement is:
Random Googling –> Sepia? What the-? –> Hmmm, interesting –> Lurking –> and then finally, posting.
If these anti-miscegenation fans have followed that tried-and-true process, then they’d be aware that there are more than a few members of the Mutiny community who are the products of interracial unions; I can’t imagine that they’d be so tactless as to disparage such pairings when they reflect someone like Siddhartha, Desidancer or SemiDesiMasala’s ancestry.
So, maybe these are just mischief-instigating trolls, having some wicked fun via drive-by hate-spewing.
Or are they?
I think there’s more to this– and that’s why I’m publishing this post. Let’s have it out, then. Some of you seem to be in the mood to REALLY tell us what you think, so here’s your deluxe chance. Almost everyone here is anonymous. 🙂 It’s safe to be honest.
The following comments were left on my post about a woman named Aarti being chosen as one of the cuter people on the Hill:
hillside: Also I’ve never dated an Indian girl either, probably partly because so many of the hot ones like the two on this list are into white dudes. [sm]
Sheetal: (referring to comment above)
I’ve noticed this too. What is up with that? [sm]
Sheetal followed that comment by excerpting the following portion of the Hill article, making sure to highlight certain significant words by “bolding” them.
Skipper is a native of Chicago but both parents are from India — something that had worried her when it came to the issue of marriage. The handsome man in church soon became her boyfriend, but he was American and Caucasian, far from what she thought her parents would ever accept.
Okay, loud and clear. Jamie Skipper is Desi and she married a Caucasian (never mind that Desis are Caucasian, too). Yet another commenter seemed to agree with hillside and Sheetal:
Kannan: its interesting that you bring this up..We have parallels with the asian community. I’ve heard/seen that before. Hot lil Korean spinner would rather hook up with tall lanky white dude than someone from her race and its kind of common because I know a lot of my asian brothers who want to date from their race gripe and bitch about it:) Its almost like an invisible social hierarchy And the same goes for desi guys, I have a lot of friends who date white girls just because they think it brings them more social value” Look at me FOB minority guy pulling from the majority race” However for me its never really been race, its whether I was attracted to the person or not and it so happens I have never gone brown 🙂 [sm]
Kannan, I think your final sentence encapsulates how most of us feel, but that doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t explore the other sentiments I’ve highlighted.
SM is at its best when we are honestly, openly and sometimes painfully hashing out the issues that our community/others refuse to acknowledge or discuss; I didn’t put this post up in order to invite you to pillory “hillside” and “Sheetal”. They weren’t abusive, they were blunt. I wrote this post because I wanted to know how the rest of you felt. The thing is, I am almost certain that they aren’t alone and that more of you agree with them than we realize. Maybe it’s time to call ourselves out.
To be brutally honest, I’ve been there. Years ago, I crushed on Desi guys who only seemed to “swing one way”; I’ve been let down gently by being told that:
If I did date Indian girls, you’d totally be my type.
I’m just not attracted to dark skin…I like pink nipples (!) (this from someone even darker than me)
and the best one, ever,
Um, I could never go out with you because it would be like dating my sister. White girls don’t remind me of relatives.
And what do black and Asian girls remind you of? It’s so telling that they almost never factor in to these cringe-inducing statements, it’s always white girls who are “preferred”, which invites doubt about the sincerity behind someone’s “type”.
Predictably, each of those instances left me feeling wounded. It didn’t help matters that every time my Mother came across some seemingly eligible, compatible (read: also raised-away-from-Mallus) ummarried boy, his mother would sorrowfully lament that
“He already has girlfriend. White. Enne chayum?”.
Mom would come home, grumpy. “The second they graduate from law or med school, they run after a vellambi. Chey!”
I knew why my Mother said something so annoyingly ignorant. Encounters with unavailable, suitable boys combined with input from her coworkers, a good portion of whom are African-American, to create an explosive cocktail of hurt; soon, my Mother absorbed that odious complex about “successful POC going white”, especially after the cutest brown resident at her hospital took up with some “white nurse who wasn’t even pretty” instead of someone Indian/Pinay/Chinese/Black (all of whom were/are allegedly gorgeous, in comparison). When they heard about the brown and white coupling, my Mother’s African American office mate snorted, “typical” while Ma shook her head and sighed. She told me all about it, bitterly.
“Mommy, maybe they’re in love?”
“Podi, penne. Stop being blonde.”
“Mom you’re being unreasonable.”
“You are never going to find a boy. There are no educated Malayalee boys with three degrees. If there are, they are only interested in the white girls.”
“I don’t care how many degrees…remember? I like engineers. They usually have just one.”
“Chinammamma is right. That’s a recipe for disaster. Boy should have more degrees than girl-“
“- and be three years older, and three inches taller and blah blah blah. Spare me, Ma.”
“Make fun all you want, those things are accepted for a reason- they work. You want your husband to resent you?”
“I thought you didn’t care if I got married?”
“I don’t. It would save me money. I’d rather travel than waste all that, or put the down-payment on a house for you. I have nothing to prove to your Father’s friends and I’ve never been interested in outdoing them. I just…saw Mercy’s son and thought he was so cute. My grandchildren would have been so cute!”
All right-y, then. What’s hilarious is that my Mother had to alter her theory a year later, when “Mercy’s son” got engaged to a Punjabi girl he met in law school:
“Sho! Anyone but a Malayalee penne, eh?”
“What, Ma…now there’s a hierarchy? White, then North Indian, then South?” 😀
I didn’t really make peace with any of this until I met an adorable white guy who confessed that he liked me…only to hear me gracefully blurt out that I only date brown boys. It’s true, I can’t help it. I always have gone brown and probably always will. It’s just what I am attracted to– black hair, dark eyes, tan skin (fur optional).
The epiphany I had at that moment, while staring in to wounded blue eyes and rapidly batting blonde lashes, brought me closure and a bit of enlightenment; duh, no one has to justify whom they are attracted to, but hopefully they are acting out of their purest feelings– we can’t help whom we fall for, but we can call ourselves out if we’re nursing some bizarre colonial hangover or other therapy-requiring-issue (full disclosure: I have a family member who ONLY dates white guys, because they are the polar opposite of her strict, very Desi Dad).
There are other aspects to the complicated issue of human mixology, too– one of my dearest friends is finally in a blissful relationship. With a black man. After being repeatedly rejected by Desi guys for her tan skin and curves, she has given up on making her parents’ dreams of an Indian son-in-law come true. Instead, she found someone who will accept her just as she is; she has decided to do what makes her happy– and I am thrilled for her. I’m also broken-hearted that essentially, she has to keep her love closeted. Additionally, I would enjoy beating the fecal matter out of the last Desi she went on a blind date with, who brilliantly said, “you’d be so pretty if you weren’t so dark!”, while recoiling from her. But I’m protective and furious like that.
Look. This stuff is real. It happens. Let’s talk about it, if you are in the mood. I’m opening a safe space for exploration, if you are so inclined. You don’t have to be P.C. or fake, you just have to be respectful and courteous; controversial topics are impossible to fisk if we’re not, right?
Sorry for my impact on this post. I have written only seldomly but feel very passionately about this issue. can someone explain to me what a troll is?
Don’t worry, Camille, I doubt you’d be missing too much…mainly, it would be me silently envying Milli’s La Perla-buying proclivities and lots of inconsequential talk about hair products, white guys, and uncut cocks. 🙂 Just another happy hour with the SM girl’s crew.
Are you blond, british, and buxom? Although, I think laws will be the least of the troubles on this front.
brown sugar — i think i need to invite more folks to the OBPD project once i get back to SF 😉
milli, I love Absinthe! I’m just rarely there 🙁
There was also a club I went to in Mission Bay that I really liked — it was newish and on Utah and 10th, I think. I wish I could remember the name!
Satya, what would be funny is if we actually DO know each other 🙂
pankaj, no worries.
Also, Rahul, I am always AWED by the number of times you decline the wanton advances cast your way on the SM comments. Left and right, women are dropping their e-panties for you 🙂
Don’t worry, Camille, I doubt you’d be missing too much…mainly, it would be me silently envying Milli’s La Perla-buying proclivities and lots of inconsequential talk about hair products, white guys, and uncut cocks. 🙂 Just another happy hour with the SM girl’s crew.
omg! like, 4 of my favorite topics!! well i’m glad this thread has enabled some potential for connection between desis 😉
and sorry for the unclosed tag earlier 🙁
The Force is strong in this thread.
I have to go to the gym before they close…I don’t think I’ll be #1000. It’s all you, Razib.
I have to say that it is much better than the days when I had to give my credit card number to Russian sites for the same thing.
a 6’3 guy and a 5’0 girl… does someone think that would be too weird?
That would absolutely, positively never work. I am sure someone would think that would be too weird. And that would be that.
I dated a guy who was 6’7″ (I am 5’3″) and I swear that EVERY single time we were out together in public, some random passerby asked us how the hell we were together. It was pretty hilarious. One time a guy didn’t even say anything, just kept moving his hand up and down making imaginary height marks in the air. Heh. Height was not the issue behind our split, though.
camille, i am jezebel herself :), if not blonde, british, and buxom. rahul, sweets, you don’t speak in an english accent yourself and i doubt that you dance with wolves.
Well, I hope that doesn’t force you to go in some kind of disguise!
portmanteau, we are made for each other. I love AW, and I particularly love that single off Frank 🙂
I don’t speak for anybody but myself, and I certainly didn’t say anything about most ladies. I went to college in NYC; the longest I stayed at any single job was at a Jewish non-profit in SF; and I even managed to date one of the two Jewish girls at my high school in Texas. I have a special place in my heart for teh chosen people.
All I know is this: Well, first I want to say that I’m not trying to make myself out to be some kind of uber-mack, I’m not even interested in being that person. So here’s what I know, based on conversations I’ve had with women who I have and have not gotten naked with: some women are very vocal in their preference for uncut members. I’ve even heard the phrase, “Once you go uncut, you’ll never…ask what?” I don’t want to extrapolate too much based on this; I’m just asking you to question these assumptions you’ve apparently based on nothing.
I agree with you there. When I was a boy growing up, if some man stuck his average uncut indian penis in my face, I totally would have been anxious about it. To put it mildly.
what the fuck is this?
I wish I was… Harbeer Sandhu
Sittin all alone at home, I thought to call Michal the phone rang once she said “hello” and started wailing like the wall “Harbeer,” she cried, “I’ve tried and tried to find a Jewish boy…” I said “Ahoy! I¹ll be your toy! If you¹ll accept a goy.”
Alas, it seems, girls of my dreams, since I have been a tyke Are in the clan of Abraham I’d rather be a kyke!
Refuse my passes ’cause I don’t wear payises and call myself a Jew, I even bought YENTL to save on rental (SUCH A SENSIBLE BOY I AM!) but still can’t get a screw I’d get a bris just for a kiss light candles during Hannukah, Eat gefilte fish with Manischewitz I’d even sport a yarmulke.
I’d banish yeast for the Pesach feast and fast on Yom Kippur, Help you recoup with matzo ball soup when your health is poor. I’d give up lobster to make your roster I’d even give up bacon, I’d ditch my grocer, turn my kitchen kosher, ’cause you plus me is a filet minyan.
At last I found some common ground with a honey that I like But she won¹t have boys, kykes or goys, alas the girl’s a dyke!
…8 inches & cut baby….
just sayin’
No worries, I’ll show up in all my repellent splendor 😉
It’s called a poem, ol’ chum. A parody, to be precise, of a poem written by a Jewish friend. His was “I Wanna Be A Dyke.” Get out much?
now that you’re on the east coast, a zenanafest may be possible 🙂
you call that poetry, if you were a singer you would spanky from the little rascals. Do I go out much? you actually spent your time to write that. Yeah you sound like a real mack. I bet you show your uncut penis to girls at the jewish house for the dumb blind and deaf.
hey now, letz keep it classy and crackin’ 😉
Hey, guys, can we chill a bit, or if not, take it offline? I, for one, would like to hit 1000 by staying classy 😉
portmanteau, sounds like such a ‘fest is in order =)
I agree, let’s keep it classy.
razib, that was eerie!
razib, that was eerie!
minds are one.
Talking about taking things offline, Camille, was there something you wanted to ask me ? 🙂
Well, I made it back from Lupa in time to see 1000 hit. No Desi “barbie dolls” tonite–sorry to Puliogre for the bum steer.
Me finks downtownbrown needs a bird
Like this one? I love this song, such upbeat music and the trumpet going on cheerfully, and the lyrics are darker than a black steer’s tookus on a moonless prairie night.
i’m going to have to strangle the intern at the meet up if comments are closed at 999 😉
Don’t worry we can snap that lock with the sword of Gryffindor.
Uh oh, Chachiji, has Camille come around in the “space” of this thread”
😉
Oh, it’s ok 🙂 I may send an email in a day or two 🙂
I am still waiting for someone to explain to me what a troll is.
Pankaj–a troll is a commentor who is there to cause trouble, not to share interesting insights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
i am not a troll, this is an issue i spent a long time thinking about. In fact I even e-mailed anna a short time ago, beseaching her that this issue needs to be explored. i am not a troll.
I might be called a shitty writer though.
pankaj, that’s fine. Stick around, get to know folks, and keep commenting. That way we can differentiate you from your comments in the context of this isolated post.
Man, like piranhas to blood, the comments just keep rolling as we approach M 🙂
Pankaj, As you know, I liked your insights/theory. But, I did go “huh” when you mentioned your enriching experiences with white women! But, no, you’re no troll!!
Theres a 12 step program for that. step 2 is denial, Im on step 6, ice cream.
Well, I dated a girl who was 5’0″ (I am 5’9″) and every time we were together, she used call herself midget and my response was always “but height doesnt matter when we are horizontal” 😐
Pankaj – Wikipedia’s explanation of a troll.
In years to come, what will you tell your grandkids (only those who want to have/adopt kids, of course) when they ask you, “Where were you when comments hit 1000 for the first time on SM?” And sadly for the few who are hanging out here, it will be, “In front of a computer hoping I would be the one.”
thanks rob, I believe strongly in what I am writing about and only wish that I was better able to express myself. you have to walk on eggshells as you write these things, you know. thanks for being in my corner. do not be afraid to speak your mind on this issue. it is very important. must be discussed, and people must find out about the discussion.
At least you two were within 12″ of each other, although (according to razib), it seems like 8″ is the golden rule 😉
Vinod wrote:
I find it rather interesting that the woman/men “segregation” occurs at roughly the Mississippi River. I wonder what the socio-economic explanation is for that.
Cash rules everything around me
wheee 999
I have to take a shot at being 1000, so here I am. (It is sad If this actually becomes the 1000)