…because according to some commenters, apparently, it isn’t. Suddenly there are commentS about hot Desi girls choosing white guys over their own— and I emphasize the plural aspect of “comment”, because that’s what caught my attention– this wasn’t some one-off virtual rant. Frankly, Mr. Shankly, I’m shocked. While some of the people who are leaving the eyebrow-raising statements seem to be new, I’m fully aware that the normal pattern of Sepia engagement is:
Random Googling –> Sepia? What the-? –> Hmmm, interesting –> Lurking –> and then finally, posting.
If these anti-miscegenation fans have followed that tried-and-true process, then they’d be aware that there are more than a few members of the Mutiny community who are the products of interracial unions; I can’t imagine that they’d be so tactless as to disparage such pairings when they reflect someone like Siddhartha, Desidancer or SemiDesiMasala’s ancestry.
So, maybe these are just mischief-instigating trolls, having some wicked fun via drive-by hate-spewing.
Or are they?
I think there’s more to this– and that’s why I’m publishing this post. Let’s have it out, then. Some of you seem to be in the mood to REALLY tell us what you think, so here’s your deluxe chance. Almost everyone here is anonymous. 🙂 It’s safe to be honest.
The following comments were left on my post about a woman named Aarti being chosen as one of the cuter people on the Hill:
hillside: Also I’ve never dated an Indian girl either, probably partly because so many of the hot ones like the two on this list are into white dudes. [sm]
Sheetal: (referring to comment above)
I’ve noticed this too. What is up with that? [sm]
Sheetal followed that comment by excerpting the following portion of the Hill article, making sure to highlight certain significant words by “bolding” them.
Skipper is a native of Chicago but both parents are from India — something that had worried her when it came to the issue of marriage. The handsome man in church soon became her boyfriend, but he was American and Caucasian, far from what she thought her parents would ever accept.
Okay, loud and clear. Jamie Skipper is Desi and she married a Caucasian (never mind that Desis are Caucasian, too). Yet another commenter seemed to agree with hillside and Sheetal:
Kannan: its interesting that you bring this up..We have parallels with the asian community. I’ve heard/seen that before. Hot lil Korean spinner would rather hook up with tall lanky white dude than someone from her race and its kind of common because I know a lot of my asian brothers who want to date from their race gripe and bitch about it:) Its almost like an invisible social hierarchy And the same goes for desi guys, I have a lot of friends who date white girls just because they think it brings them more social value” Look at me FOB minority guy pulling from the majority race” However for me its never really been race, its whether I was attracted to the person or not and it so happens I have never gone brown 🙂 [sm]
Kannan, I think your final sentence encapsulates how most of us feel, but that doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t explore the other sentiments I’ve highlighted.
SM is at its best when we are honestly, openly and sometimes painfully hashing out the issues that our community/others refuse to acknowledge or discuss; I didn’t put this post up in order to invite you to pillory “hillside” and “Sheetal”. They weren’t abusive, they were blunt. I wrote this post because I wanted to know how the rest of you felt. The thing is, I am almost certain that they aren’t alone and that more of you agree with them than we realize. Maybe it’s time to call ourselves out.
To be brutally honest, I’ve been there. Years ago, I crushed on Desi guys who only seemed to “swing one way”; I’ve been let down gently by being told that:
If I did date Indian girls, you’d totally be my type.
I’m just not attracted to dark skin…I like pink nipples (!) (this from someone even darker than me)
and the best one, ever,
Um, I could never go out with you because it would be like dating my sister. White girls don’t remind me of relatives.
And what do black and Asian girls remind you of? It’s so telling that they almost never factor in to these cringe-inducing statements, it’s always white girls who are “preferred”, which invites doubt about the sincerity behind someone’s “type”.
Predictably, each of those instances left me feeling wounded. It didn’t help matters that every time my Mother came across some seemingly eligible, compatible (read: also raised-away-from-Mallus) ummarried boy, his mother would sorrowfully lament that
“He already has girlfriend. White. Enne chayum?”.
Mom would come home, grumpy. “The second they graduate from law or med school, they run after a vellambi. Chey!”
I knew why my Mother said something so annoyingly ignorant. Encounters with unavailable, suitable boys combined with input from her coworkers, a good portion of whom are African-American, to create an explosive cocktail of hurt; soon, my Mother absorbed that odious complex about “successful POC going white”, especially after the cutest brown resident at her hospital took up with some “white nurse who wasn’t even pretty” instead of someone Indian/Pinay/Chinese/Black (all of whom were/are allegedly gorgeous, in comparison). When they heard about the brown and white coupling, my Mother’s African American office mate snorted, “typical” while Ma shook her head and sighed. She told me all about it, bitterly.
“Mommy, maybe they’re in love?”
“Podi, penne. Stop being blonde.”
“Mom you’re being unreasonable.”
“You are never going to find a boy. There are no educated Malayalee boys with three degrees. If there are, they are only interested in the white girls.”
“I don’t care how many degrees…remember? I like engineers. They usually have just one.”
“Chinammamma is right. That’s a recipe for disaster. Boy should have more degrees than girl-“
“- and be three years older, and three inches taller and blah blah blah. Spare me, Ma.”
“Make fun all you want, those things are accepted for a reason- they work. You want your husband to resent you?”
“I thought you didn’t care if I got married?”
“I don’t. It would save me money. I’d rather travel than waste all that, or put the down-payment on a house for you. I have nothing to prove to your Father’s friends and I’ve never been interested in outdoing them. I just…saw Mercy’s son and thought he was so cute. My grandchildren would have been so cute!”
All right-y, then. What’s hilarious is that my Mother had to alter her theory a year later, when “Mercy’s son” got engaged to a Punjabi girl he met in law school:
“Sho! Anyone but a Malayalee penne, eh?”
“What, Ma…now there’s a hierarchy? White, then North Indian, then South?” 😀
I didn’t really make peace with any of this until I met an adorable white guy who confessed that he liked me…only to hear me gracefully blurt out that I only date brown boys. It’s true, I can’t help it. I always have gone brown and probably always will. It’s just what I am attracted to– black hair, dark eyes, tan skin (fur optional).
The epiphany I had at that moment, while staring in to wounded blue eyes and rapidly batting blonde lashes, brought me closure and a bit of enlightenment; duh, no one has to justify whom they are attracted to, but hopefully they are acting out of their purest feelings– we can’t help whom we fall for, but we can call ourselves out if we’re nursing some bizarre colonial hangover or other therapy-requiring-issue (full disclosure: I have a family member who ONLY dates white guys, because they are the polar opposite of her strict, very Desi Dad).
There are other aspects to the complicated issue of human mixology, too– one of my dearest friends is finally in a blissful relationship. With a black man. After being repeatedly rejected by Desi guys for her tan skin and curves, she has given up on making her parents’ dreams of an Indian son-in-law come true. Instead, she found someone who will accept her just as she is; she has decided to do what makes her happy– and I am thrilled for her. I’m also broken-hearted that essentially, she has to keep her love closeted. Additionally, I would enjoy beating the fecal matter out of the last Desi she went on a blind date with, who brilliantly said, “you’d be so pretty if you weren’t so dark!”, while recoiling from her. But I’m protective and furious like that.
Look. This stuff is real. It happens. Let’s talk about it, if you are in the mood. I’m opening a safe space for exploration, if you are so inclined. You don’t have to be P.C. or fake, you just have to be respectful and courteous; controversial topics are impossible to fisk if we’re not, right?
My sweet tooth is utterly, delightfully, fantastically satiated.
I think I’ve just had the kindest let down. (running away now to drown all my misery in Morrissey land)
I should have clarified–i meant performing. Nobody came to see me practice in a banyan and dhoti–the performances, however, as they require male dancers to bare all from the waist-up, did catch the odd eye.
I don’t rememember all of the gori details (pun prize please?), but I do recall that a certain happy trail served to enhance the dancing-brown-man-appeal. (perhaps the only time that being hirsute was an advantage)
could probably have a whole ‘nother post on the politics/history/dynamics of what constitutes ‘manly’ and “womanly” dancing in BN (especially in Kalakshetra-sourced styles), but I was often commended for exemplifying some mythical male ‘ideal’ by experienced observers–however it left me with hips unsuited to dancehall ragga, an exaggerated s-curve in my back, and serious trapezius/deltoid inferiority issues (could never keep em down in natyarumbhe).
good to know that BN opened up other dance styles to you, though!
yikes. i havent heard of any of the cool kids resturaunts, or the pretty brand of girls lingere. i must be a real dork….
You are the least of my concerns, when it comes to people who derail things, kiddo. 🙂
Awww, no, you’re more than fine. I couldn’t believe that La Perla got name-dropped here. 🙂 And as for me + hillside, we’re blathering about D.C…aren’t you in NYC?
yeah…i guess im just used to being surrounded by slick wall street salesmen that can tell you about the cool places in every town from here to dushambe…really sweet of you to prop up my self esteem. i guess thats what that commenter was talking about getting “grounding”….
For the past year, I’ve enjoyed my non-status as a lurker and held no interest in posting a comment. Especially since I’ve learned heaps by reading others’ comments alone. While, I’ve found this whole discussion interesting in the way it explores how racial identity has such an enormous effect on our love lives, I question the motivation behind the rants against African-American women by mera dil ke paas (mere dil ke paas?). Considering this post centered upon brown/white relationships, I do not see the need to make such ill-conceived and harsh statements against Black-American women. What’s up with that?
Whee! ANNA likes me. 🙂
srsly, tho, y’all, I gots to get some work done before 6. Maybe it’ll hit 1000 by the time I check in again?
If Amitabh, T-Hype and I are correct, “MDKP” is actually Pardesi Gori, a controversial figure who has commented here for quite a while. She has been banned over and over again, but rather than accept that, she chooses different names/handles, switches IPs and comes back. Her tone/complaints never change, which is how we can tell it’s her. Many of us take issue with her blanket condemnations of Indian men, certain aspects of Indian culture and her tendency (though now somewhat muted?) to try and “out-brown” actual brown people/constantly prove she knows more than we do, etc.
She’s dating/engaged to an African American man and she’s white, so that might provide context for her harsh statements…
We should just set up a wiki-type thing, where the entire cast of commenters can be found. 😉
If being attracted to a group of people for reasons that they can not control is racism (a specific gender, younger than your grandma?) then what do people call real racism. And how are people supposed to take racism as a serious problem if it is placed on the same basis as preferring Coke over Pepsi.
BTW, exogamy between populations increases the diversity of allelic combinations and is good for the overall health of the human population.
As a second BTW, the girl in the photo kissing the stunned white guy is turbo hot! Is that the author?
see anna? you don’t even have to attend meet-ups to find admirers. Although this wasn’t exactly Cyrano-level amor here.
What does that mean?
Also, it’s 2007. Kind of depressing to read, “is dating white (or replace with any color) not right?”, in this day and age.
By now aren’t we supposed to be over prejudices and tribal warfare?
Camille wrote:
So far based on this thread, that makes 1 guy, 3 girls. If I was a betting man… 😉
ak wrote:
Totally agree with you here. Having kids is, whether one wants to admit it or not, recreating something in their own image to provide some form of entertainment, security, etc. At least my male and female friends with kids are open enough to admit that.
Oh, I’m certainly in no rush nor am I all that concerned. There are worse things than being responsible for only your own life and not having to constantly think of someone else and how they would react to things, etc.
make that 4 girls!
I cannot believe how many comments have been posted in under 6 hours. Jeeeeeeeeez.
Hell yeah, SFGirl! The Bay Area is one of the worst places for the straight single girl, compounded for suckiness when you take into account our bizarre “dating culture” (i.e. half the time you have no idea if you’re dating, “kickin’ it,” or just getting some on the side). I hate it I hate it I hate it. I think it’s been voted one of the 10 worst cities for singles.
Haha, because we are hiding from our La Perla sistren!
I really don’t think this is possible. I know that’s an awful thing to say, but all the fun/prog and attractive desi guys seem to be off the market. Instead, we are stuck with the male equivalent of the high powered Kate Spade/LV-bagged desi female i-banker.
As far as I’m concerned, it is not a shaadi worth attending! I’m just kidding. But seriously, ak, hearing that folks don’t dance as much “for fun” really breaks my heart.
Rahul, where have you gone/are you going? I was just thinking about how much I missed your comments today, but maybe I missed the advisory?
If you’re counting the number of people who are “not necessarily set on kids,” you can add another man to the total. (And being the only male offspring in the family sure adds a lot of pressure, tell you what!)
Heh… as an SF guy, this humors me to no end…. Once again, I call “observer bias” 😉 The dating scene – even after you subtract out gay guys – favors straight Desi women here over straight desi dudes…
Answering an earlier commenters question: Ries & Trout – Al Ries and Jack Trout wrote the definitive book on positioning. Look it up on Amazon. Digest it and integrate it into your life. Guaranteed to get you game. eg. My niche speciality is the librarian or atleast women who frequent libraries 😉
Spicy munda- thanks mate.
OMG Camille yes.. I HATE this too!
Cool! Will definetly check that out. But just wondering – are they looking for greencards? Or is it south asian men who are already settled outside of India?
Vinod, I think it depends on your dating demographic. I think desi (female) i-banking types are doing fine in terms of the odds being stacked their way. However, for the rest of us “alternadesis,” the pickings are SLIM, both within and “without” the desi community.
Seriously, there are days when I say to myself, “Man, it would be easier to be queer in the Bay, because at least I would meet amazing women.” I know that’s a really f*** up hetero thing to say (there are clear oppressions, drawbacks, and danger around being openly queer), but honestly, that is how stacked the numbers are when it comes to women v. men.
I really don’t think this is possible. I know that’s an awful thing to say, but all the fun/prog and attractive desi guys seem to be off the market.
Noooo!!! 🙁
Anyhoo, I concur that dating in SF blows — and forget about trying to date desi. There are barely enough desis IN the city to constitute a real dating scene, and I am not driving my ass to the South Bay just for a brown date, nuh-uh. (Perhaps I need to start reconsidering, though, given the sad state of affairs).
I find that in between filtering out the slackers/stoners and personality-less i-banking LV types, I am left with … my friends. My ridiculously hot, smart, desi friends … who are all gay. Le sigh.
SFGirl, don’t know if you’re interested, but every now and then, I meet hawt U.K. desi guys at the Rickshaw Stop when they do their Non-Stop Bhangra nights once a month. I’m not sure why this is, but from my experience, U.K. desi guys are just more friendly, approachable, and down to earth than the American desi guys in the Bay. Don’t know if this is due to a considerable class chasm or what (the U.K. guys aren’t usually as snooty and have a better understanding of societal ills in general, perhaps ’cause race relations are a little more brutal once you cross the Atlantic). Having worked my arse off at a nonprofit for years (alas, no moolah for La Perla underpants), I find it little wonder that I’ve found the desi dating scene kinda dismal–the guys are just as materialistic, vainglorious, and scornful as the girls, if not more.
camille – what’s the single biggest thing you’re looking for that rules out the huge pool of desi dudes here in SF from your consideration? if it’s “progressive-ness” or “alternative-ness”, SF’s gotta be in the top 2-3 US cities for that.
Why is that even okay or logical to ask? Yes, they just want you for your citizenship-bestowing powers, PG. Do you have any idea how annoying your comments are? Why do you persist in leaving them, better yet– why do you insist on being somewhere where you are not welcome (and for good reason)? Can’t you find some other online space for your warped, loathe/hate deal with brown men and culture?
Oh, and for those single and pining SF desis looking for other desis, apparently there is an event/fundraiser/mixer happening Aug 9, 6:30PM at Bissap Baobab in the City.
Jeez.. what are we? twins?.. I have wondered that out loud too.
haha I was thinking of checking that place out after I saw the non stop bhangra collective at Stern Grove!
There is a South Asian Comedy showcase in San Francisco tonight. Come say hi to the radical leftist motorcycle boys, or even better, feel free to practice gender role subversion by buying this one a drink. Dr. Alternagirl–I promise, it’s just research for my novel…which is being killed by my obsession with this thread.
I think we’ve pretty much established that the answer to that is a big NEGATIVE!
I blame it on saffron balls.
Thanks, Camille 🙂 I am just entering an extremely busy phase in work, which is why I think my appearances on SM, such as they are, will be few and far between. Or at least they should be. You didn’t miss anything, I think the only event deserving a warning/advisory is my coming.
Vinod, that would be the straight + single requirement (for the “prog” guys, anyway), followed closely by the “is not a philandering asshole” requirement. My expectations and criteria are LOW, my friend, from 15+ years of Bay Area PAIN 🙂
Satya, I’m with you on the UK observation as well 🙂
There are other demographics who are reputed to “put out” much more “easily” than white American girls. I’ll let you all guess who they are since I know I won’t find it mentioned here, conspicuous by absence. I do realize though that whites still being the majority in North America, they are probably the demographic most readers here mix with the most, outside of their own, and in many cases, maybe more so than their own, so you’re let off the hook … this time.
But a tip to the guys, there are places and people you can mingle with to get laid even quicker! And their skills are supposedly more honed too.
As for the ladies, well, I guess we don’t have as many problems getting some because most guys of any background are usually willing. Aren’t they?
And yeah, as long as it’s consensual sex between two legal adults, no one is getting used, as long as both parties are up front about the nature of the union from the get-go.
I knew it! You’re starting a world-wide hugging campaign for world peace!
Oh, but to be fair, sometimes one of the “barrier” issues is age difference (mine, not his).
Who do you think I am? A melbourne desi? (desi = from the desh of Australia)
Well then, here’s looking forward to Tropical Storm Rahul 🙂
It’s very hard to find someone who fits one’s personality 100%. If one happens to be into a religion and goes to such religious/cultural events, the type of people there tend to be too conservative on certain matters. Then if one goes to clubs or art shows or whatever, the people you meet there tend to be too wild and open.
The dating samsar can be totally stressful, even suicidal, for some people. We waste time that could be spent on self-improvement, family bonding, environmental work, curing cancers, etc, on just trying to “hook up” with someone, and when we do, there is always the inevitable and stressful “break-up” which takes considerable time to recover from, and then we get right back on the merry-go-round again, until we find ourselves mid-30’s and desperate for love and stability like Sex And The City. That goes for both men and women.
In this regard I think the arranged or assisted marriage scheme works better for both men and women. It saves alot of time, heartache and stress and for those who are fortunate enough to have access to such a system, I say take advantage of it coz there are alot of frustrated and lonely 30 somethings out there that wished they had such an alternative to turn to when all else has failed.
Mera Dil Ke- enough. And since you can’t respect this community’s wishes, I’ve banned you, for the ninth time, to help you stay away.
I was thinking more along the lines of fish-mongerer-turned-spouter-of-meaningless-plattitudes-we-should-jolly-well-know but thanks for sparking some memories of study abroad!
This is insane..almost close to 900 comments don’t cha people have nothing else to do 😛
oi, that link should’ve been for the first part of my comment.
Is this too over the top? A musical, perhaps rigidly constructed, template of brown-brown, keep-out-the-others, dont-dare-deviate-from-saris dating ideal?
In terms of dating, my personal preference based off 1)physical attractiveness 2)personality 3)intelligence 4)compatibility:
1)Spanish (Spain, Argentina, Venezuela, Brazil only) & Italian (Italy, Brazil only) 2)Axis of beauty – Lebanese, Persian & Turkish 3)Swedish Blonde 4)UK Desi girls (London is insane, innit?) ; ) . . . . . . 11)Indian American 12)White American
Pardon me, there is a queue : p
I understand what you’re saying, but not everyone is looking for marriage. I think there’s something nice about meeting someone on your own terms, as well, even if it can be more difficult (in San Francisco — wink!).
Pardon you, but not for you. 😉
And vinod tells us that there are plenty of eligible single men in SF…heee
We are discussing jeevansaathiaa, Mr. Mister! What could be more important? 😉
I’m kidding, mostly, but I actually think that for as tired and played out as the desi-dating conversation gets, there is something kind of hopeful and awesome about relationships. I am a bit of the dopey romantic, though. I’m sure someone will very quickly disabuse me of my feelings with a witty commentary on how relationships are social productions to help ensure the propagation of the species. 🙂
On my part, I’ve always had success finding love in San Francisco, just not with the desi guys, so it’s largely been a matter of broadening my own criteria. I know women in their thirties who are still steadfastly holding out for their desi knight in shining armor and who cringe at the idea of going out with men from different ethnic backgrounds, but the cost of such fastidiousness and fault-finding is a little too high for me…which is not to say there’s anything wrong with wanting a brown-brown relationship. I just think it can be a bit limiting if your geographic odds are against it.