…by which I mean ignorance and racism; I have nothing against ancient warriors who had little to do with the lush paradise in which my parents were born. I’ve largely refrained from the “Scythian”-drama on SM, which has now pindered out to the point where it’s almost an inside joke: “But is she SCYTHIAN??”, etcetera ad nauseum.
Behold, the stunning nescience below, which inspired this unexpected post:
Well not all Punjabis are Scythians, but some are. I don’t look like the small, dark and gumpy looking people there. I’m totally a 6’4″ tall, 220 lbs. White Scythian, not just in complection, but in those jagged Iranic/Germanic Scythian features. U.S. Born, and a U.S. Marine too. Not some unkempt, short darkie, goofy looking son of a bitch like most of those Indian fuckers are. Don’t forget about the Pashtunic, Scythian, White Hun, Magog descendents who decided to stay on the Indian side during 1947. And changed their names to Singh. I got nothing in common with most Singhs, I’m all-American here. My blood’s totally of White Hun/Scythian and Greek lineage. I should change my name back to our original Scythic/Hun and Greek surnames, before my ancestors made the hair brained idea to stay on the Indian side. When they should have fought hard to preserve their Princely States, which do not belong to India or Pakistan. I got nothing in common with Desis in appearance and culture. They’re as bad as the Muslims! The problem is, is that most here are NOT Scythians, so they won’t understand, but it’s foolish to claim that all are Scythic, or none are Scythic. However some are. Also a lot of pure Scythians left India in 1947 and the time after that to come to America. Since their high civilization of their Princely States were robbed and dissolved by the Desis. No worries, though, we’re florishing well here. Just I’m against the current immigration of all these undesirables who don’t belong in America. The immigration rules of the 1950’s, 1960’s were excellent in America. But not anymore, today. With the way things are going, America’s gonna be another 3rd World cesspool if they don’t close the doors to immigration. But it’s all Commie New World Order and the Bibilical End Times now. So go figure. [for shame]
Hmmm. I wonder if he realizes that most of our darkie desi parents came here during that “excellent” era for immigration, i.e. 1965.
Look.
I’m all for being proud of one’s roots and heritage. I’m certainly not ashamed of my undesirable, small, dark and gumpy (??) past. I’m also proud of the fact that like this commenter, my sister is active duty Air Force; I’m a total cheerleader for our troops, but that doesn’t mean I’ll overlook the egregious. You see, there’s being proud and then there’s being pejorative. One can be the former without resorting to the latter. Shocking concept, I know.
If you are someone Gujjar, Sindhi, Kashmiri or whatever and you have some logical right to claim Scythian ancestry, then bully for you. I was always taught that Scythians were blood-drinking, pot-headed, parent-devouring cannibals who didn’t even have a written language, but whatever floats your quasi-supremacist boat. 😉 I keed, I keed.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that you Scythians are unique and special. Just like everyone else. You’re no better or worse. Just like everyone else. So why this fixation on differentiating yourself from us when you quite probably have some of our small, darkie genes too, even if they haven’t expressed themselves in your tall, broad-shouldered, Aryan phenotype? What is up with the proto-racism?
And if you are excessively proud of your purported background, why come to a site populated by inferior darkies to crow about it? People who own Ferraris are fine with obeying the speed limit/staying out of the extreme left lane, I’ve seen it myself. It’s the poser in the uber-modded ________ who has something to prove– and behaves deplorably.
Since I commenced this post because of a comment, let me end with one, too. This was Chachaji’s response to CinnamonRani, over on the Skin Color Matters thread:
I think discrimination based on skin color(or for that matter discrimination based on any visible markers of difference) is an innately human behavior. It takes a lot of conscious effort to see beyond the visible marker at an individual level. This requires training, sensitization, consciousness raising, and it has to happen all the time, in every generation. Although one makes distinctions precisely because one is human, it is also because one is human that one can become aware that one is doing so, and learn not to base significant decisions on these markers. People who claim they are not racists are often being not so much dishonest as ignorant of their own psychological processes. [link]
Better yet, have a cup of Possibly Scythian-descended Camille:
…Honestly, when people say this, I wonder if folks recognize that this is just another way of playing into ideas of white supremacy and a “white on top” racial hierarchy? PARTICULARLY when they start throwing in color (e.g. “Oh I’m much more like (fair-skinned) Aryans than (dark) south Indians.” It’s racist and stupid, through and through…[link].
What do you think? Be respectful, please. I’d love to have a discussion where we hash this out, for once and all, but that won’t happen if this thread gets shut down. Scythe away at each other accordingly. 😉
36
My Sooper Dravidian.BC compiler is throwing “Scythax Error” on that Code..I need to upgrade.Maybe ill feed it some Fair_nd_lovely.sys and complan_makes_you_taller.bat file to get it to speed..
“in my own relatives I have seen people equate beauty with fair skin”
Iranians are probably the best looking people on earth.
On average, lighter skinned people are more attractive than browner ones, I believe light skin was sexually selected for when dark skin became unnecessary in northern climates.
Iranians are probably the best looking people on earth.
well, if you like ‘natural’ sweaters.
i find this interesting, as i do think a lot of south indians in general – from all 4 regions – exhibit what are known as ‘dravidian characteristics.’ my family is telugu, but well-planted in tamil nadu (so i’m sure there was plenty of inter-mixing there). in general i see no marked difference at all between telugus and tamils in terms of physical appearance. e.g. my parents’ respective groups of telugu and tamil friends seem to overall just look ‘south indian’ to me, rather than distinctly tamil or telugu. it’s amazing how people will use one or two rare exceptions in appearance to consider it to be the rule.
” My Sooper Dravidian.BC compiler is throwing “Scythax Error” on that Code. “
I think you forgot to inherit the Racist class :
class Scythian:public Racist { … };
it’s working fine for me now.
I didn’t realize that in the original posting (#86) “Scyth” had added links to his photos.
Obviously, it’s just a joke. No one of true Scythian heritage would drive a Dodge Durango(!) (Message to Scyth: Did you ever hear of GMC, or at least Ford? 🙂
Of course, if you do own the .50 CALIBER SNIPER RIFLE in the photo album, I take that back. One semester, many years ago when I was 22, I lifted weights with a Marine. He told me about his previous summer, when his radio was stolen from his Jeep. He spent a month lying by his house at night with a rifle loaded with tracer rounds, in case the thief came back. Later, he brought the gun to school, but not many people knew. Ah, those were more peaceful years. Really, a Durango?
“if you can’t achieve in your life, you can at least take solace in the fact that you were born the apple of creation’s eye.”
This was a common belief among the downtrodden British working class at the height of Empire. They were at the bottom of the pile – but were at the center of a mighty empire, and were ‘better’ than the blacks and browns their countrymen ruled.
On average, lighter skinned people are more attractive than browner ones
Sure. I mean, it’s not like lighter skinned people ever actually alter their skin to be more brown, do they? 😉
Hey boston-reader, well spotted.
The master race stares at you darkies! Bow down if you dare look at the supermans white face!
Scythian Ubermenschen
I like your post, Anna. I had no clue about the so-called Scythian ancestry claimed by any group of people from India…but then I am a gumpy South Indian with thunder thighs to boot!
Randomizer,
How about giving up the code:
class Scythian(Racist, Ignorant, Needs_To_Read_History_Books): …
and going into biotech, you know, inventing the syringe-administrable history serum where the patient is so overwhelmed by the pain done to others that he uses his Durango to deliver food to seniors . . .
This Scythian bullshit is brought upon by the same people who are still shouting for Khalistan. Its mostly sikh jatts living outside india whose total ignornce of historical facts lead them to believe, that since Scythians are potrayed in comics to have long hair, and sikh have long hair…they must be one. At least most here can get away from these people….Imagine my hell some of these idiots belong to my extended family, and I can’t break away from the collective rationality vaccuum during family gatherings.
I don’t know about anyone else here, but I’ve come across plenty of ugly people that were fair-skinned. Ugliness knows no color. I’m a fair skinned woman, but my being fair-skinned doesn’t equate to me be fly – my juicy booty does (no matter what the aunties say).
Not saying that you don’t have personal experience of the ignorance you claim certain people have(you sound a little bitter), but isn’t a blanket statement like that a bit naive? Should the musings of some people you know speak for all those who are fighting/advocating Khalistan? And how did Khalistan come into the disucssion anyways? Were you just looking for a segue?
My apologies: In the comment above, I meant to say fighting for/advocating, and not fighting/advocating
OK, I think I’m probably the first person to have used the word ‘Scythian’ here. But in case there’s doubt in anyone’s mind, I don’t endorse this idiot’s views at all. I kind of regret ever mentioning Scythians, although hopefully there’s no connection between my comments and this jerk’s. I’m glad the whole thing became sort of an inside joke here…before this guy wrote his garbage at least. In any case, let us condemn him all we want, he deserves it. But historically, there was a Scythian culture and people, they were not ‘dirt farmers’, they actually had a lot of impressive cultural and military accomplishments, and they did have a presence in northern India, and probably did form some percent of some people’s ancestries, as well as left some degree of cultural imprint. But I think ANNA covered that very well in her post. Nothing for anyone to get all Hitler about, like this fool.
The Khalistanis I know take great pains to show their cultural differences (imagined or otherwise) from mainstream India. They use this as part of an argument for separation from India. Portion of this argument of the argument involves their so called ‘Scythian’ origins. This is where the Khalistani, Scythian and Jatt nexus comes into play. If I appear bitter, it may be because I was reminded of the countless wasted minutes listening to the ‘Khalistani’ argument.
This issue has little to do with Khalistan or Sikhs. This issue is also common amongst Hindu and Muslim Jaats as well as Sikh Jats. Although it does seem, but maybe due to their disproportionate numbers in America, that Sikh Jats talk about this the most. I visited the infamous jattworld.com and below is their main argument. I use to be a member of these sites too (at that time jatt.com) and did partake in this. They cite this post written almost 10 years ago as if it is the Gospel:
Rebuttals to “Jatt as a Caste” Theory
The biggest Misconception regarding the term “Jatt” is defining it as a “Caste” as per the standards set by the Indian Caste System. Nothing can be far away from truth as this misconception. The fact that Jatt is a Race has been widely supported by both historians and raciologists working in this field and has been discussed in detail. Here are some negations and rebuttals to the false claim that Jatt is a so called “Caste”. These rebuttals have not been and cannot be negated and the truth lies in the fact that Jatt is a Race and not a Caste as traditionally thought. Here are five rebuttals that will prove this point.
Rebuttal 1) ETHNIC NATURE: If you look at the Nature of a “Caste”, you will notice that its spread throughout India. Eg Caste consists of professions divided into four Categories called Varnas. The Caste System, in its present form, is further based solely upon birth. Thus, as per Caste Rules, Farmer Profession is categorized under Vaisya Category (Varna). And Remember that as per Caste SYSTEM in its present form, this is to be based upon Birth i.e. Farmer’s son MUST ONLY be Farmer if Caste System has to be maintained. This point will further be used as a rebuttal in proving how Jatt is not a Caste. Now talking about Ethnicity, you will notice that Caste is not Ethnic in nature at all. Eg a Priest living in North of India will belong to a Brahmin Caste and a Priest living in South of India will also belong to Brahmin Caste. THERE IS NO ETHNIC SIMILARITY HERE. In the same way, NOTE VERY CAREFULLY that a Farmer of North India will be a Vaish and a Farmer of South of India will also be a Vaish. This Logic leads us to conclude that IF Jatt is a Caste (assuming the proposition that Jatts are Farmers) then Jatts must also be Present uniformly throughout India, (just like Brahmins) the land where Caste System is present. But observation tells us that Jatts are only present in Punjab, Haryana and parts of Uttar Pardesh. This gives an Ethnic Nature to Jatt Identity strongly proving the case that assumption “Jatt means Farmer” is false and thereby further concluding assumption that Jatt is a Caste is False too. FIRST REBUTTAL OVER.
Rebuttal 2) RACE PRESENCE: It should be noted that this discussion is yet not concerned with Historical viewpoint and raciological and archaeological study of Jatt History. Its just about rebuttals to how Jatt is not a “Caste”. What it is then, is a matter of study that will be made in further papers. Caste is present in different Races. Eg Priestly Caste Brahmins are present in South Indian Dravidian Race as well as in North Indian Races. If its assumed that Jatt is a caste, why then are there no Jatts in, lets say, Dravidian Races? Again, the Ethnic Nature Rebuttal further strengthens this point and further helps this rebuttal in making yet another point in how Jatt is not a Caste.
Rebuttal 3) FUNDAMENTALS OF CASTES: All the fundamentals, rules and regulations of Castes are goverened by Religious Law Books such as Manusmriti written by a man called Manu. All of these books are part of Hinduism, written by Hindu Mystics. Two thirds of Jatt Community does not follow Hinduism and thereby Manusmriti, that defines and regulates the basic backbone of Caste System holds no relevance for this two thirds of Jatt Community who are not Hindus but are Jatts. Yet another strong rebuttal as how Jatt is not a Caste.
Rebuttal 4) PROFESSIONAL NATURE OF CASTES: Castes are professional in nature. Though Caste System further makes it a compulsion to make it based upon birth. But Jatts can be found in just any profession: Business, Politics, Sports and so on. Proving further Jatt is Not a Caste.
Rebuttal 5) CASTE-EXCOMMUNICATION: This is yet another important point. As a punitive measure, the Caste of a person can be degraded if some pre-defined rules are not set i.e. a person who is a Brahmin can be degraded to a Shudra Caste and so on. Thus Caste follows the rule of Ex-Communication. But a Jatt born among the Jatts can, under no condition, be ex-communicated. Good or Evil, a Jatt shall always remain a Jatt.
Together, the above five points of rebuttals thereby confirm the fact without doubt that Jatt is not a Caste.
I have grown up over the years, but it is interesting to see the same bacvas replicate itself. When a Jatt Gill girl wanted to marry a Kumar boy. She seemed frustrated by her parents being unreasonable and posted:
I understand our culture, heritage and history but fail to see our sense of superiority. It’s not what you were, it’s what you are today, as humans and as individuals we represent ourselves – being born black, white, jatt, brahmin does NOT make us better looking, more clever etc
Why do I find the young Jatts today on this site so proud to be Jatt? What exactly are you proud off? Do you think you’re better? Do you think out-of-caste marriage is wrong? What achievements have you recieved that makes you feel special? Forget your ancestors, you can’t live your whole-lives just saying your blood is better because of your fore-fathers…wouldn’t that just be called pathetic?
They replied:
you and i both know that this is a made up story from some pitch black ugly dravidian animal that prays to clay action figures comparable to the ninja turtles…and is using this story to try and create a atmosphere of equals between jatts and ugly dravidian animals.
***** WHAT YOU GUYS THINKG IM *****IN JATT FOR LIFE AND IF YOU JATT AND SAYING I DONT CARE, THE KILL YOUR SELF, AFTER BEING ONE THIS SITE AND KNWOING YOUR HISTORY YOU STILL LIKE THAT THEN YOU WHITEWASHED OR ONE SOME SHIT WTF AFTER KNOWING YOU HISTORY YOU CANT SAY YOUR PROUD OF BEING JATT, THEN YOU MIST BE *****IN DUMB STUPID ETC LOL
commit suicide, let us all be ridden of this bullshite smoke blunts till you pass out!
Also it is interesting to note who most frequents these websites in terms of gender. Women are proud to be jatti and you see it in user names, etc. But the extent of male dominance has no bounds.
In reply to Ardy, Comment 31:
I’m Pakistani and basically consider myself Indian, as well as many of my other pakistani friends.
This thread reminds me of the reason I hate this icon of American music
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
Nice! The humor here is refreshing.
The preference for lighter skin color is prevalent even in South India, big market for fair n lovely cream. I Wonder where this preference comes from and suspect it follows the British rule.
Guess there will always a few people who believe in the “Aryan Invasion” theory regardless of all evidence against it and the lack of evidence for it.
Also the idea of race as understood here is also bunk. Read this statement from the American Anthropological Association.
the progress of South India was not a fluke.
Maybe so, but South Indians aren’t immune to the whole fair skin thing. I’ve heard relatives of mine make comments like “oh, that girl would be so pretty, if only she wasn’t so dark.” As a whole, I think South Asians are really caught up in being as light-skinned as possible.
Macaca power!
And another
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merle_Oberon
And yet another, although this one can have the full benefit of his claim to a Persian heritage with my blessings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayatollah_Khomeini
smells kind of like the identity crises suffered amongst all types of pakistani people and other south asian muslims. if it’s not the “indus valley civilization” argument that proves that pakistan was naturally never a part of the indian subcontinent, no one from pakistan knows where their family really comes from!
they are either pathan and born well south of the durand line but claim to be afghan or they truly are central asian with family from the fomer soviet union, and are not “desi” because of their secret their mughal blood, explaining the complexion of their one light-skinned daughter, or their families are kashmiri and don’t belong to any of the unpure stinky lands of india or pakistan. anyone whos ever met a kashmiri will never hear the end from them about how magical their green eyed blood is and how they consider it an insult to be lumped with the rest of us. and of course let’s not forget the dudes who claim their actual ancestry is arab and call their friends habibi and grow their beards down to their knees. and the most convoluted comes when these claimants tangle with each other, playing the “he’s from peshawar/multan/dera ghazi khan/muzzafarabad/srinagar/delhi/mumbai he’s not a true pathan/kashmiri/mughal/sheikh/bohra he’s just faking it!” HE IS NOT A TRUE PATHAN! no one’s pure enough or has foreign enough roots for anyone, even members of the same family! then when the argument starts going downhill, the pure exotic foreigner will claim not to understand urdu or hindi because their parents only speak some obscure/dead language at home which is the exclusive domain of the true blood and not the wannabes, even though every time you’ve been to their house, that’s the only language you’ve ever heard spoken. the kids born in the us or the uk then compound the nuttiness of this senseless mystical pride, being removed from the magical land of fantasia and living in what they perceive as a cheap, materialistic place like the west.
I can say all of this, because my family is pathan/kashmiri/bohra/arab/mughal all together! my mom claims a different ethnic background depending on our company. and when i call her out on it she will stick to her guns about our ancestors of the week like she was defending her izzat! you will find this phenomena so pervasively, that if you were to take the word of every claimant, you would think that there never was an indigenous population in the subcontinent!
But historically, there was a Scythian culture and people, they were not ‘dirt farmers’, they actually had a lot of impressive cultural and military accomplishments, and they did have a presence in northern India, and probably did form some percent of some people’s ancestries, as well as left some degree of cultural imprint.
don’t lecture me on history, please. i’ve read herodotus and other ancient sources, i know who and what the scythians were perceived to be, not the half-baked conflations which i see on occasion on SM. and when they ‘settled’ of course they were dirt farmers. that’s what most people’s ancestors were (though the more successful dirt farmers, until the modern age the lower classes tended not to reproduce themselves so that the lower classes of the future descended from the downwardly mobile upper elements).
your muslim brother, there is a non-trivial central asian and west asian ancestral load in the typical north indian muslim, probably around 5% (this is right now on the border of the tests to detect these sorts of admixtures). i’m excluding pathans here, who are pretty much central/west asian as opposed to south asian. of course muslims emphasize 1 part out of 20, instead of the 19 parts out of 20. the same logic applies to the scythian punjabi jatts. yes, one can find genetic signatures that one can attribute to iranian speaking nomands, ‘scythians,’ but they are trivial in comparison to the ‘dumpy’ majority of their ancestry which is like most south asians. of course, don’t take my word for it. check out this article, Low Levels of Genetic Divergence across Geographically and Linguistically Diverse Populations from India. have a problem with decrypting statistical genetics? no problem, look at this chart: http://genetics.plosjournals.org/archive/1553-7404/2/12/figure/10.1371_journal.pgen.0020215.g002-L.jpg . just follow the colors.
your muslim brother: that was hilarious. The kerala(“syrian”/malankara)-christian version of this is “our ancestors were brahmin/jewish before they converted to christianity”. Every ethnic/religious community in India has some version of it.
http://tallguy6ft4in.photosite.com/album2/0522070755.html
Just as I thought, this deluded nutjob does not look white at all. You can see a number of delusional “aryan” brahmins and “scythian” jatts trying to jump on the white bandwagon at white supremacist sites like Stormfront. Once they are stupid enough to post their pictures they are laughed at and kicked to the non-white section of the forum.
His attempt to look macho is so fake 🙂 Combine his baseless racial supremacist fantasies and his obsession with guns and you have a potential spree shooting psychopath here.
I suspect that pakistanis seeking revenge for Bangladesh have led these khalistani fools by the nose with this punjabi Saka/Scythian racial brotherhood nonsense.
i’m 5′ 7.5″–the brahmanically ordained and most divine height for males.
I’m browner than Monica Goodling’s nose at a televangelist fundraiser for the Federalist Society.
I spit cyanide capsules at captors and file frivolous lawsuits against fast-food companies.
If given a roti stand and an endless supply of bidis, no american will be able to distinguish my swarthy face from another in Chennai.
My great-great-great-grandfather on my uncle’s, grandmother’s, great-aunt’s side was the feared, bloodthirsty king Parajasingham who ate North Indians for breakfast and shat colonialists at supper.
obviously the Dravidian must be superior. Look at the captain of the damn Indian cricket team for ethnics sake!!!!
The kerala(“syrian”/malankara)-christian version of this is “our ancestors were brahmin/jewish before they converted to christianity”. Every ethnic/religious community in India has some version of it.
the daudi bohra ismailis do the same thing. the most likely reality is that they were converted out of the vaishya castes, but a lot of them continue to assert brahmin ancestry (though some groups of ismailis, like the khojas, might have been brahmin). interestingly, the loudest ones claiming brahmin ancestry do so to emphasize that that explains the regressive and conservative nature of the culture, though the suspicion of my bohra friends is that is simply a mask for trying to disassociate themselves from grubby mercentile origins (these progressives tend to be professionals).
cite for the previous assertion: Mullahs on the Mainframe: Islam and Modernity Among the Daudi Bohras.
p.s. also, this isn’t a brown only issue. in the 19th century english chauvinists regularly asserted the superiority of the germanic anglo-saxon race to the celts, in particular the irish. there’s a problem with this narrative: a combination of historical and genetic evidence suggests that the german settlers were a minority overlay, with a possibility of parity only in east anglia. so you had a situation where english supremacists were justifying their superiority by being german when i turns out that they’re, on average, more non-german than german. Saxons, Vikings, and Celts: The Genetic Roots of Britain and Ireland is a good source on this topic.
If true, that’s the funniest (and almost the most disturbing) thing I’ve read in ages.
If true, that’s the funniest (and almost the most disturbing) thing I’ve read in ages.
i don’t know about posting pictures, but i’ve seen them before too. they come up on google searches for indian genetics related stuff.
It’s not just Indian’s. South American’s think that the lighter skinned population is more attractive then the darker skinned population.
There is always talk about how good looking Brazilian women are, but when ever you see one modeling for Victoria Secret or whatever they always look white. Turn on the Spanish channels and you almost never see dark skinned people, and trust me I watch them alot.
look at all of the popular latino people.. Ricky Martin, J-Lo, Shakira, Paulino Rubio, Gloria Estavan, Fat Joe, Gael Garcia, Salma Hayek etc. They all are light skinned. Name one popular dark skinned latino?
This isnt something isolated in one area of the world, it is everywhere. Maybe it is something inherent? Either way, live your life and be happy.
Yes; my iranian friend told me of an acquaintance of his who went up to this german girl who was dating an iranian and said that he approved of their match as they were both aryan (!). The german girl was appropriately horrified. So the iranian version of this is apparently something like “we’re not like you barbaric arabs, we’re aryan”.
Ricky Martin, J-Lo, Shakira, Paulino Rubio, Gloria Estavan, Fat Joe, Gael Garcia, Salma Hayek etc. They all are light skinned.
you need to qualify that “light” is population normed. many of those people are quite dark in most european contexts. as are “light skinned” south asians or middle easteners. most light-skinned bollywood starts would be “dark and sultry” in western film. and yes, there is a lot of racism in latin america (on reason hugo chavez is popular is he he appeals in a racial language to the mestizo and mulatto lower classes from which he came in venezuela). but stuff like this: but when ever you see one modeling for Victoria Secret or whatever they always look white. really weakens your case. don’t get greedy, adrian lima is a VS model and brazilian who is obviously (and acknowledges herself) mixed-race: http://www.designpage.com.au/images/Adrian-Lima2.jpg
part of why the fairer-is-better complex is so pervasive worldwide is because of its socio-economic connotations – fair means you (and your ancestors) did not have to spend too much time working outdoors, which is usually required of “menial” or “labouring” jobs. thus, fair skin = prestige related to a higher socio-economic status in society. now, things are different – many people have just been conditioned to prefer fair skin, but i think this socio-economic divide explains the origin of the preference, at least in some parts of the world.
So the iranian version of this is apparently something like “we’re not like you barbaric arabs, we’re aryan”.
the shah really promoted this. the force change of the official name to iran from persia was part of this (yes, it was always called iran too).
many people have just been conditioned to prefer fair skin, but i think this socio-economic divide explains the origin of the preference, at least in some parts of the world.
yes. peter frost’s fair women and dark men is a good source book for anyone interested in the topic. a big counter argument though is “tall dark and handsome.” herakles were “black skinned” because of how much time he spent outdoors doing manly things. in european culture the fact that men had a martial ideal meant that darkness was sometimes associated with vigor. on a physiological level within a population women are about 5-10% lighter skinned than men, and women with higher estrogen levels tend to be lighter, all things controlled (younger women are lighter than darker ones). for men, those with a lot of testosterone tend to be darker. in fact, you can take the same face and use a computer to make it lighter and darker, and subjects tend to assume that the light one is female and the dark one male.
OK, so then I’m sure you realise there was a lot more to their culture than just being ‘dirt farmers’. And my comment wasn’t aimed specifically at you. Anyway, you and I have never exchanged harsh words, and if that’s the direction you want to go in now, I’ll have no part of it. Easier (and more pleasant) to just lurk, in that case.
razib:
Well, I thought this whole subject was about that. As light as some Indians are, no one will ever think that they are polish or something.
When I look at Gizelle Buchan, or whatever her name is, I dont immediatly associate her with tribes in the Rain Forest of Brazil. If you want, go here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brazilians#Female, and tell me how many of these models are black or even look like Brazialian “Indians”
And in the case of Adrina Lima, look at Pele, who is blacker then black and brazilian then look at Adrina Lima and you will get your answer to what is “Light skinned”
Razib,
considering that genetic study that you cited was admittedly done on indian-americans, rather than the gen pop in India, are there any resources to point to differences in skeletal muscle potential between ethnic groups or perhaps supposed ethnic groups in South Asia?
this scythian fellow seems to place a good deal of pride in the fact that he is heavier and taller (partly by virtue of height) than the ‘grumpy’ ones who are short and of inferior stature.
When I look at Gizelle Buchan, or whatever her name is
her parents are german from the south of brazil where that is common (a few towns still are mostly german speaking).
And in the case of Adrina Lima, look at Pele, who is blacker then black and brazilian then look at Adrina Lima and you will get your answer to what is “Light skinned”
what are you talking about? she’s mixed-race. she’s not a xuxa.
this scythian fellow seems to place a good deal of pride in the fact that he is heavier and taller (partly by virtue of height) than the ‘grumpy’ ones who are short and of inferior stature.
you can look in books.google.com to confirm, but northwest indians are taller and more robust in build from what i know. east and southern indians are smaller and slimmer. some of these trends follow climate pretty closely. northwest indians are also lighter and more middle eastern/central asian looking. the general direction of his assertions was correct, though the magnitude was pretty laughable (a whiter looking brown is still brown, at the end of the day).
Amitabh wrote:
And I would hate if my post changed that– you and Razib are both part of why our discussions are worth reading. Everyone, Scythian or not, breathe. 🙂
Amitabh, I meant to write it earlier, but I wanted to reach out to you and make sure you knew that this wasn’t in any way aimed at you; I didn’t even think of you when I wrote it. I know you are fiercely proud of who you are and you are passionate about not forgetting one’s roots, I’m glad no one here has conflated that with the…comment…which inspired this.
Now stop considering lurking!
His multiple pictures of guns did freak me out a little. It also seems that he’s soooo pumped up about something to which he made no contribution – maybe he has nothing else to base his self-esteem on? Maybe he sucks at school, cricket, and spelling.
yeah, my heritage is supposedly fairly dravidian (lankan tamil) but with a tweaked diet and hellacious lifting program i’ve managed to more than round out.
there are a lot of half-baked theories in the body-building world, even regarding specific exercises with different benefits for different racial groups, but there was very little regarding south asians as there isn’t exactly a horde of them stomping down the doors at Muscle & Fitness magazine.
I’m just wondering whether as someone with my background, am I just running into a genetic wall with the Scythian fellow laughing maniacally behind it?
OK, so then I’m sure you realise there was a lot more to their culture than just being ‘dirt farmers’.
look, let me clarify. the scythians were bad asses. that being said, why did they invade so many lands? quite often it was famine driving them. they weren’t necessarily an affluent people, except when they could enter into rentier relations with enserfed farming populations (as in the ukraine). the mongols conquered most of eurasia, but in the generation of genghis khan’s grandfather they were mocked as marginal rat eaters (they did hunter-gathering when their flocks couldn’t suppor them). so yeah, be proud if you are descended from the great khan, but remember that your ancestors ate rats. it is normal to have ethnic pride, and a lot of people engage in that. but, it is important to remember that
a) we are all descended from slaves & lords
b) we descended mostly from farmers
c) greatness is often followed by debasement
just like a brown friend of mine was shocked when i told him that the early indian civilization was centered on bihar.