There was a thought-provoking article in the SF Chronicle Sunday on the current quandaries faced by high-skilled foreign workers on H-1B Visas in the U.S. A very large proportion of these are Indian (49%), and in high-tech and computer fields (45%).
Currently, the system has problems on every side: first, representatives of software companies (chief among them Microsoft’s Bill Gates) have loudly asserted that they need for the number of available H-1B visas to be increased, as there are currently significant numbers of unfilled positions in many computer related fields (and this is even despite the explosion of outsourcing in the past five years). Secondly, there is confusion about whether H-1B should be understood as a temporary visa, or the first stage on the path to a green card; most Indians I know presume it’s the latter, while the government still seems to think it’s the former. And finally, the system clearly hasn’t been working very well for the immigrants themselves: it currently takes between 6 and 12 years for an Indian on an H1-B to be given a green card, even with employers willing to sponsor them. Confusingly, it takes much less time for H-1B workers from other national backgrounds to be given a green card once they find sponsorship. One of the surprises to me in the SF Chronicle article is the fact that the USCIS doesn’t even really know how many H-1B workers with Green Card sponsors there are:
Stuck in the middle is a federal government that has problems tracking the visas. Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that oversees this guest-worker program, can’t answer basic questions including:
— How many foreign-born professionals are working in the United States on H-1B visas now?
— What percentage of H-1B visa holders seek green cards instead of returning home?
— How many H-1B visa holders and family members are awaiting green cards?
“The cumulative numbers you are looking for simply aren’t available,” said Citizenship and Immigration Services spokesman Chris Bentley. “These are not issues we track.”
This admission of ignorance is really depressing: it suggests how low on the government’s priority list the H-1B workers really are. “It’s not something we track” is a way of saying, “no one really seems to care about this.”
Fortunately, a new organization has cropped up to advocate for H1-B workers: Immigration Voice. They’ve hired a PR firm to help them make their case in public, and they’re trying to influence the push to reform the H1-B system that is currently starting to work its way through Congress.
On a personal note, I should say that my wife started working in the U.S. (in the Bay Area) on an H-1B visa, and I’ve seen the ins and outs of this deeply flawed system at work. I feel strongly that the H1-B system is essential to the U.S. economy, and that H1-B workers, who come to the U.S. with advanced university degrees and unique skills, ought to be fast-tracked to permanent resident (Green Card) status. As it is, 1.1 million people (according to Immigration Voice’s number) are currently waiting in limbo, unsure whether to plan on staying in the U.S. permanently — and everything that might come with that — or whether they should continue to presume they’ll be heading back to the countries they started from.
Finally, I also think second-gen desis in the U.S. — particularly all the desi lawyers out there — ought to be advocating for better treatment for the Indians who are here on H-1B visas. As of now I haven’t seen much of this.
I found this dubious as well. What’s more common is parents setting up an ‘us and them’ mentality, where, it’s ok for us to play with/socialize with/mingle with them, but never pretend we are them, because they’ll never accept it. While this kind of advice might not be of the “tralala! we’re all alike, lets go live in the log cabin!” variety, It think it’s rooted in realism.
Ive seen parents not want their kids to have “american” friends. american = white. ive also seen parents tell their kids “dont forget we are better than them. we have a culture. they do not. we are more intelligent than them. indians are professionals. they are not.
The best scene ever in the mostly mind-numbing genre of Indian-American movies is from American Desi (the rest of the movie is crapola).
Excerpt from http://www.isteve.com/Film_American_Desi.htm
A bunch of kids are all taking Engineering 101. The professor launches the semester by announcing, “Engineering is extremely difficult. Look at the person to your left and to your right. One of the three of you will fail!” The camera focuses in on a fat and dim-looking white boy. He glances at the lean and hungry Indian on his right, then at the equally intense Chinese guy on his left. The mostly Indian audience at my screening erupted in laughter as the doomed Euro-American realizes his inevitable fate.
I read with some amusement the five or six taboos common among first-gen parents. I have half a dozen of my own but not necessarily the same ones. But the one first-gen fixation that is about to be vindicated in a big way is the emphasis on education. That’s the only way to safeguard one’s future in a global marketplace. There will always be H-1B’s nipping at your heels, and this message should be heeded by H-1B’s as well. Your American children, assuming you get your GC and raise a family here, will be just as vulnerable to the next wave of H-1B’s.
As desi as this may sound, good grades, aspirations to go to the best universities, constantly increasing one’s knowledge and skills, and generally excelling in one’s chosen field are the only workable strategies for a global economy. H-1B is nothing.
that flick amused me at the time.
Ahem. Do tell!
What’s more common is parents setting up an ‘us and them’ mentality, where, it’s ok for us to play with/socialize with/mingle with them
I don’t know. I’m sure there is the us vs. them aspect to it, but I think it does extend to socializing with non-desi people as well. As ak suggested earlier, I think Indian parents are often worried about what they see as the “moral bankruptcy” of western culture, and they become determined to protect their children from socializing, because in their minds, such socializing/mingling invariably leads to dating…and dating leads to (gasp) sex.
There’s no real logic to all this, unfortunately…because if you showed them statistics regarding the surprisingly high rate of premarital sex in India, they would never believe it.
Puliogre in da USA
This thread was about H-1B visa, and their woes. Most of the H-1Bs are highly trained professionals who go through lot of hoops, and painful anxiety in the height of their career, sometimes exploitation in their formative years.
However,
You (and some others) have hijacked this thread as a “bitch fest”. I know this, I know that…….Significant percentage of comments on this thread has became preaching, and lessons for others in civics and social conduct.
What I know?
All this comments tells us more about your prejudices than their complaining. As I said earlier, me and lovely Bambi do not run into you in IRL (In Real Life), I would be complaining about US of A, like it is nobody’s business.
Don’t hate the player. Hate the game.
Don’t blame just Indian parents, even Americans feel this way.
The “we have a culture” part, relatively speaking.. is true. The “we are more intelligent and professional” thing, I find dubious too. Most Indian parents work for white people. They know they’re capable of professional work as well. As for intelligence, it depends in what context – in a strict technological context, or more of a ‘moral’ context? If you meant the latter, I’d agree that attitude is prevalent and erroneous.
I grew up thinking adultery, abortion, etc.. was a ‘white’ thing, until I learned my great uncle cheated on his wife, took a mistress, had her have an abortion…. and all this while he was running for political office (What’s more American than that?)
When I was in elementary school I knew parents that were like that, telling their kids to only hang out with other desi’s.. But once the kids get to high school they will hang out with whoever they want to regardless of what their parents say..
Actually, I would say, what’s more desi than that?
Kush, I think the thread is going this way because not many of us know enough to contribute on the policy aspect of this issue; thus it is veering towards the social aspects of immigration.
LV – I would inform you on my dalliances in college and thereafter (trust me, the transformation has been quite dramatic) but I will take Kush’s point in stride and save that for another post.
is it?
ak,
ah, was titillating while it lasted.
now, back to those H-1B visas…
Man, people were really starving for new threads to comment on after the long weekend!
I need not approve of America’s foreign policy to be able to love Bluegrass or CCR or Muddy Waters or Pat Metheny. Nor do I have to walk with a swagger and try very hard to talk with an accent to make Americans understand I am ‘one of you’. First, why the hell do I need to be sorry for not talking like Americans? Can you talk in Bengali or Tamil? Forget talking, do you even know the basic grammar? I know enough to do my job well. And English is for livelihood. That’s how I see it, and that’s how it will be. Do you have the sensitivity/ humility to even learn any new language/ customs when you go to foreign countries? Can you go beyond seeing and measuring everything in terms of the amount of comfort people are enjoying? So, if it is grating on the years, probably it is time for some reflection. No amount of comfort is enough. It is really funny to see how alert people are to their ‘rights’ from the state, and how afraid they are of ‘giving up’ the comforts.
Arundhati Roy has talked about it in some detail. Amartya Sen also has written about it in his Identity and Violence. The litmus test of loyalty may not be which side you fight for in case ‘there is a war’. This kind of binary ‘either/or’ thinking is for fanatics, and a failure to generate a few more categories than ‘two’. Was it Samuel Johnson who said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? If people relate to India more than the US, it is not because they are certain which side they will fight for ‘in case there is a war’. There are many India-s. There are many things to learn/listen/read/understand/imbibe/enjoy/cherish. And denying that will be bordering on a racist Macaulian/ James Mill attitude. That attitude will essentially mean although Indians has existed for more than five thousand years, there is little of value that has come out of that interaction. And look what we have achieved in only three hundred years. USA has done extremely well for itself, no doubt. But upstart nations need to show some patience and humility and willingness to learn. Getting respect is more than winning a rugby game.
Listen to this conversation on immigration and development between Christopher Lydon and Amartya Sen.
When his son-in-law Nagendranath Gangulee went to America to study agriculture, this is what Tagore wrote to him:
I am extremely grateful to the faculty at my department. (At the same time, I am extremely frustrated when I think about the lack of such institutions in India.) However, I need not prove how much I love them by sending off signals of getting socialized. Thank you very much.
Yes, I know that many first-gen Indians bring back samples of curd from back home because they find the yogurt here quite insipid.
sounds interesting. please elaborate.
I am sorry about that rant. The discussion on H1-B visas was really interesting. Back to it please.
why is it so hard ot get a green card? Do other countries make it that hard?
That, and the whole ‘fruit on the bottom’ thing never made too much sense back home.
I believe that there is a per-country annual quota. The demand from countries like India and China far exceeds this quota, and hence there is an accumulated backlog that takes multiple years to clear. However, some countries do not even have enough demand to fulfil their allocation. Under Clinton, the unfilled quotas were put back into a pool which was then distributed on (I think) a first-come, first-serve basis. This resulted in a quick clearing of a lot of the backlog and relatively speedy processing of green card applications. However, the entire process again ground to a halt after 9/11. In order to avoid any fiascos like the visa extensions that were granted to a couple of the dead hijackers, the INS has instituted a whole load of FBI background checks and the like (cynical view: no decision is better than a bad decision), without adequate manpower to handle this additional workload, and hence the waits have again been going out of control.
My picture is a bit dated, so I don’t know if I have all the details right, but this is the general idea.
Tambram –
I’m not sure what their visa status was. Perhaps the practices sponsored them somehow, I’m not sure. I will ask one of these folks next time I run in to them. Thanks for the link to that article. …………..
In concert with Puliogre’s comment on 171, how hard is it to emigrate to other countries on a citizenship track? Is it as difficult to come here as to go elsewhere?
How hard is it to get a green card equivalent to other countries, if i want to live forever in india, or sweeden, or australia, etc..?
I know it’s not a lottery system by definition…but that is what people who recently waited for their H1-B call it. 🙂
That, and the whole ‘fruit on the bottom’ thing never made too much sense back home.
What? It’s like a little gold mine at the end of the cup.
Er, um, about the topic at hand… I confess I don’t have much to add except that my mother’s Resident Alien card could get us interrogated at customs and our car searched on the way back from Mexico. She held onto her Indian citizenship for as long as she could in order to claim certain property rights in India (which, I don’t know), but finally took the U.S. oath when California went through the anti-illegals craze of the late ’90s.
I believe that Canada and Australia are far easier to emigrate to on their equivalent permanent residency and citizenship tracks. They are the safety schools, the Wesleyans, of the immigration system.
Pardon my ignorance, but could she not keep dual citizenship with the US? Or is that only allowed if you are a US citizen initially?
America never ceases to amaze me.
I am not sure, but as far as I understand it, she had to give up her Indian citizenship to become a U.S. citizen. India may have different rules, but the U.S. would not recognize dual citizenship.
It is the other way around. India did not have any notion of dual citizenship for the longest time. It is only in the last couple of years that they have introduced the notion of PIO (Person of Indian Origin) which people of Indian origin holding non-Indian passports can get (the definition of Indian origin is fairly broad, and can be found by googling). PIOs have almost all the rights of citizens except the right to vote, I think.
Heres the lowdown:
http://www.indianembassy.org/consular/Overseas_Citizen/Overseas_citizenship.htm
the property ownership bi t of PIO is sweet as hell. Is a little odd though, saying you cant own a house unless your indian,. or brown enough for them.
Here it is, I was wrong. Which makes me wonder why she held onto it for so long. She was afraid she’d lose some rights.
usacitizenship.info:
The U.S. government allows dual citizenship. United States law recognizes dual citizenship, but the U.S. government does not encourage it is as a matter of policy due to the problems that may arise from it. It is important to understand that a foreign citizen does NOT lose his or her citizenship when becoming a U.S. citizen. An individual that becomes a U.S. citizen through naturalization may keep his or her original citizenship. However, as some countries do not recognize dual citizenship, it is important to consider it carefully before applying for U.S. citizenship.
but the U.S. would not recognize dual citizenship.
US recognizes dual citizenship with certain countries like, Israel, Great Britain, and few others. It is governed by reciprocal basis, and long-term strategic alliances.
Not with India. In fact, India does not want it either.
With India, there is a new option: PIO (Persons of Indian Origin). You can be a US Citizen, and a PIO. PIO is almost like Indian resident but has some limitations, like you cannot vote, and own orchids in India, and some others.
I have a European-origin South African friend now a US citizen. He holds three passports.
yogurt – it really is so much better in india. and i say this from a purely culinary viewpoint. though i do like fruit on the bottom – and i like the fact that it’s separate. but these are two different genres, really.
re dual citizenship – yes, it is a relatively recent concept, and as i understand it, it stll does not exist. it is actually calling the OCI (overseas citizenship of india) and it is not the same as dual citizenship – still no voting rights, but the US government considers it as dual citizenship. but it really does provide all rights, essentially, except to vote. the big draw for many NRIs is that the visa is life-long, and the residency requirements are eliminated, plus holding bank accounts and buying land are made easier. the PIO gives you a lot of this, except the visa is 15 years only, and you have to register for stays over 180 days. but between these two, they really do give many NRIs what they want.
other countries do make it harder, and sometimes impossible – i elieve in germany, you must be of german blood to gain citizenship (this is a huge thing, for example, the turks living there) and in some arab countries, you must be muslim,
“German blood” – that sounds like a REALLY german idea.
has anyone ever had “biopot” in england. it is awesome. they should start selling it here in the us. they should give H1B visas to the guys that make biopot.
i think this person suffers from “compensatory delusion”
biopt is awesome. i find the european yoghurt selection to be much better than in the states. however, my new find is liberte (at wf) – the consistency and taste is superb (though no fun fruit and grain bits like biopot).
i elieve in germany, you must be of german blood to gain citizenship
Germany, like most countries in the world, recognizes jus soli. That is, you are eligible for citizenship if you were born on German soil, even if your parents are not ethnically/linguistically German. Good thing too, or we would all be sensorily deprived of Sabs…
If it is as good as you claim, fast track them to green cards, I say. Although with a name like biopot, I guess some drug czar will peg them for European hippies and shunt them off to Gitmo or some other place where the sun don’t shine.
Michael 190,
Spot on analysis
i find the european yoghurt selection to be much better than in the states
I think the problem is that non-desis in the US just don’t have proper appreciation for thayir saadam! 😉
This is off-topic and for the plain yogurt lovers only:
Pavel’s Russian Yogurt ( available in the Bay Area) .Simply awesome !
And the fat kid is thinking to his “ingnorant ‘ol white self”, that guy on my left is going to open a restaurant and that skinny kid on my right is gonna run a gas station….
To paraphrase Groucho Marx, German music is to music what military intelligence is to intelligence. How can anybody make any sort of melody with the words “Hier Kommt Die Schwester/Pass Auf”?
How can anybody make any sort of melody with the words “Hier Kommt Die Schwester/Pass Auf”?
ROFL. I was going to go off on how Beethoven managed just fine with something as clunky as “Freude Schoener Goetterfunken…”, but Rahul’s comment stands on its own.
huh?
I dont get it. what about my comments is delusional? what do you think im compensating for? amazing how many conclusions you guys can draw from a few comments on a board. u must be better at that than I am. I will admit though, im not an expert on the human phyche.