There was a thought-provoking article in the SF Chronicle Sunday on the current quandaries faced by high-skilled foreign workers on H-1B Visas in the U.S. A very large proportion of these are Indian (49%), and in high-tech and computer fields (45%).
Currently, the system has problems on every side: first, representatives of software companies (chief among them Microsoft’s Bill Gates) have loudly asserted that they need for the number of available H-1B visas to be increased, as there are currently significant numbers of unfilled positions in many computer related fields (and this is even despite the explosion of outsourcing in the past five years). Secondly, there is confusion about whether H-1B should be understood as a temporary visa, or the first stage on the path to a green card; most Indians I know presume it’s the latter, while the government still seems to think it’s the former. And finally, the system clearly hasn’t been working very well for the immigrants themselves: it currently takes between 6 and 12 years for an Indian on an H1-B to be given a green card, even with employers willing to sponsor them. Confusingly, it takes much less time for H-1B workers from other national backgrounds to be given a green card once they find sponsorship. One of the surprises to me in the SF Chronicle article is the fact that the USCIS doesn’t even really know how many H-1B workers with Green Card sponsors there are:
Stuck in the middle is a federal government that has problems tracking the visas. Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that oversees this guest-worker program, can’t answer basic questions including:
— How many foreign-born professionals are working in the United States on H-1B visas now?
— What percentage of H-1B visa holders seek green cards instead of returning home?
— How many H-1B visa holders and family members are awaiting green cards?
“The cumulative numbers you are looking for simply aren’t available,” said Citizenship and Immigration Services spokesman Chris Bentley. “These are not issues we track.”
This admission of ignorance is really depressing: it suggests how low on the government’s priority list the H-1B workers really are. “It’s not something we track” is a way of saying, “no one really seems to care about this.”
Fortunately, a new organization has cropped up to advocate for H1-B workers: Immigration Voice. They’ve hired a PR firm to help them make their case in public, and they’re trying to influence the push to reform the H1-B system that is currently starting to work its way through Congress.
On a personal note, I should say that my wife started working in the U.S. (in the Bay Area) on an H-1B visa, and I’ve seen the ins and outs of this deeply flawed system at work. I feel strongly that the H1-B system is essential to the U.S. economy, and that H1-B workers, who come to the U.S. with advanced university degrees and unique skills, ought to be fast-tracked to permanent resident (Green Card) status. As it is, 1.1 million people (according to Immigration Voice’s number) are currently waiting in limbo, unsure whether to plan on staying in the U.S. permanently — and everything that might come with that — or whether they should continue to presume they’ll be heading back to the countries they started from.
Finally, I also think second-gen desis in the U.S. — particularly all the desi lawyers out there — ought to be advocating for better treatment for the Indians who are here on H-1B visas. As of now I haven’t seen much of this.
perhaps. but i am not so sure it is as easy as ‘shut up and stay’ or ‘complain and go.’ people who come here come here fo a better life – and perhaps they realise once they get here, it was not so ideal. and there is much to put up with- i don’t think the culture shock should be underestimated. but they stick it out – for the promise of a better future and a better life, for themselves and their families. and it’s not just for the money – for many people, getting away to the US for the (relatively) more structured and secure way of life is a huge bonus. so while i don’t condone endemic complaining, they’ve made their choice just by sticking it out here, no matter what their words may say.
The problem is (and I’m a free trader and pro-globalizer) is that while overall the nation benefits from globalization (well, it’s what I believe although I know others differ) some people will suffer in the process and it’s easy to focus on them. Also, we don’t do such a good job, maybe, of easing their path. We really don’t have someone to articulate the benefits of trade to the US, even on the right, in politics these days. This seems a sort of hesitant fearful time, but we come back before. I remember all the anti-Japanese hysteria in the 80s, much of it coming from academics in the US! You know, the US won’t make it, the US won’t be able to compete. It’s always been wrong, before.
Or you are assuming that the H1-B/F-1 program is a big favor and charity to let people come here and so people should feel gratitude? The H1-B program is there because the US feels it benefits the American economy and thats why it’s there. F-1 students do a lot of higher end research in most Univs and the Ugrads shell out big dollars. If people on H1-B/F-1 abide by the laws, pay their taxes and do whats expected of them (legally, work wise, etc) while they are here – I think it’s unfair to place expectations on them to be indebted to the US. It’s pure capitalism at work here too from both sides.
Nothing of the sort. My father first arrived on a student visa, parents eventually got their green cards, then naturalized citizenship. Very legal and very lengthy. Their lives were not without difficulty–covert racism, glass ceilings, plain ol’ white American ignorance–but on the whole, our family had enough for us to be grateful for.
What I meant is that I’ve had enough with the complaining about American lack of values/culture/diligence–and perhaps you’ve only encountered a few like this, but I’ve encountered many more than a few who are very interested in the material and scholastic benefits of a capitalist culture, remain in their tight communities of like-minded, like-language folks, and perpetuate the impression that America is all about money. Instead, they put it down and criticize those who’ve been here longer and for multiple generations. You can take them out of the Old World, but you can’t take the Old World out of them. They are not required to be grateful, but I’m not required to think that highly of them, either.
In short, if you hate a place, get out. If it provides you with more than what you’d have had in the old country, have some appreciation for it.
Tabram –
I am not sure of the visa specifics (I’ve never had to deal with that stuff, fortunately), but I’ve met folks who were in their home countries (not just India), who took Steps 1 and 2, did well enough to get a residency spot, came here to do residency, then either went in to academics or joined a practice (some were in small towns, others in cities). I’ve also met some folks who had student visas sponsored through various educational ventures (kaplan, etc) who came here, studied for their steps, and then went on to residency. In fact, until you and Kush mentioned that avenue through the special visas bit, I’d never heard of it.
Pulliogre,
Did you often tell your parents who immigrated here and through who you have your entitlement to shut up and stay or complain and leave every time they have to say something bad about America or good about the country of their Birth?
but i am not so sure it is as easy as ‘shut up and stay’ or ‘complain and go.’
I agree with that, but the complaints I’ve heard/experienced aren’t as simple as “oh, I didn’t think it would be so hard to get good masala vadai in the US.”
I’ve heard people express the view that they don’t want their children associating with “American” kids in the neighborhood, because “American” children are so badly brought up. The problem is there’s really no evidence to suggest non-Indian kids are raised any better or worse than Indian kids are. This is just one example, but a lot of the complaints seem to be based on a combination of ignorance and bare prejudice.
it’s true. perhaps that’s why 9-11 hit so hard – there is just so much complacency these days. it’s quite interesting – even though i am a harsh critic of US policy (domestic and foreign) – in the last several years, i have re-developed my respect for the original american values. partly, this was due to law school and numerous civil rights/constitutional law classes, and partly due to the west wing (seriously). in theory, this is really one of, if not the, best systems of law in the world. however, in practise, i cannot say as much. still, there is something to be said as to why this country attracts so many people, and probably the buggest of these is opportunity. so while our parents and others might complain, they do know this much, and i think they are thankful for it.
ak in #81
I got the impression in #53 there was some allusion that H1-Bs should start developing loyalties to the US and that considering going back is contrary to that. Maybe I misread between the lines.
allowing somebody from the outside to reside in your country is a matter of privilege, not right.
Agreed. But thats also why I mentioned that the H1-B holder should abide by the laws, pay taxes.
immigrant: my parents, who came to the US in the late sixties, were very open with Americans, had lots of American and Indian friends, and always taught us positive things about the US. Didn’t mean they didn’t have complaints or hard times, but they had a good attitude and I think I’ve carried that on. The kids I knew who grew up with negative parents, well, I think they actually had a harder time of it than I did. The negativity affects your kids, guys, whether you know it or not.
so lets ban St patrick’s parades and cinco de mayo bar-b-ques. Its a milder form of the same thing……people will always compare…..
no…because my parents dont go around calling “americans” cultureless s@vages. my parents came to this country not just for money. they came here because america stood for fairness and a lack of curruption in thier mind. they wanted to have kids that would never give or take a bribe in their life. they came here because american culture in their eyes valued them more than indian culture did. although they do complain about some things about the US (as I do too), and the freedom to criticize is important, they dont do it out of blind hatred and insecurity.
Good God Neale, you are deliberately misunderstanding me.
Examples of what I don’t like:
“Americans are so fat and ugly and dumb. They don’t have our glorious Indian culture and ways. We are superior!” That’s the level of stuff I’m talking about, not cinco-de-mayo. Sheesh. Are you deliberately misunderstanding me?
Examples of good stuff:
India day parades.
:most of those that have been diligent have gotten their green cards now
Frankly, diligence has nothing to do with it. I guess for people back in India, the closest analogy is buying a first day first show ticket for Shah Rukh Khan movie in a town with a single cinema theatre. You can get up very early in the morning & stand in the queue. Or you can know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody…Or you can buy in black. Or you can just wait for the VCD 🙂
I completely support the Buying in Black approach ie. The Entrepreneur Visa. The current market boom has made millions of Indians USD millionaires. They can easily avail of an EB5. Pay a million USD & buy your green card outright, no questions asked.
I also support the get up in morning & wait all day approach ie. The F1s – students who wait 2-10 years earning a US degree paying US dollars in a US University. Having waited this long, they should be given an automatic GC. Its only fair.
What I don’t support is the you know somebody who knows somebody approach. Just because you are working in Infosys, & just because Infosys has the economic clout, you are clogging up the system with these H1B visas & making it tough for everybody else to get in – particularly the F1s, who have paid the dues. If you want to get in that bad, ace the GRE, get an I-20 from an American Uni, pay the two year tuition or atleast be smart enough to win a TA/RA, & then we’ll see. But this getting-in based on globalization/supply-demand rhetoric is just silly. FYI, if the demand is strong for techies & that’s why you are here, are you then willing to leave when the supply catches up & demand isn’t strong ? No na ? Then why this backdoor entry ? Go to an American Uni & earn your degree & spend some dollars and prove your loyalty in the process, and then you have a fair chance.
Take your poison pill of choice, Outsourcing Vs. Immigration…. We have been talking incessantly about globalization and how capitalism is all triumphant and so forth, but of the 3 factors of business labor, capital and production only capital and production have broken the barriers of borders a lot more extensively than labor. Perhaps it is time for labor, or that is what one of the arguments of the Indian government has been at the WTO to liberalise visas and movement of labor.
MD, I am not disputing that, my problem is with the notion that if you complain you are ungrateful and you should get out. Many people like your parents come with open ideas about America and Americans, pay taxes and lead lawful existence like their American counterparts. Just because they complain for whatever reason doesn’t make then ungrateful. I personally have met too many people who jump at every opportunity to dub immigrants ungrateful because they complain and tell then to go back where they came from. The initial period for a new immigrant is difficult, the adjustment to a new culture is hard and the frustrations sometime take the form of complaints, it is hardly encouraging to be told to suck it up or leave.
hema, i do agree on that front. particularly because, at times, my parents are those people. i cannot tell you how many times during my childhood, and more so as an adolescent, that my parents told me that i just was not american. not because of any way that i felt, but because they felt i was not american. they weren;t against my hanging out with non-desi americans – only about their values rubbing off on me. i was never allowed to watch things like 90210 – but on the other hand, i cannot say that allowing me to see half the tamil films i saw was any different. it’s very frustrating to have your parents move to this country and raise their children here, but not consider them american or allow them the same freedoms as their friends. i have told my parents as much, and also told them that certain possibilities – like a non-desi son-in-law – are just the risk they have to take for staying on in this country.
Puliogre, you complain that folks who come to the US from India talk smack about Amrika and ask if they’d do the same in Bombay while enjoying its benefits – absolutely, they do!! Ever heard the song “Yeh hai bombay meri jaan”? That’s as true today as it was back then. People bitch about the soullessness and the high rents and how they never want to live there the rest of their lives, etc etc. It’s the nature of economic migration, as true of migration to large urban areas as it is of migration to places like the US, with the alienation and sense of loss that accompanies it. I get frustrated at people who don’t stop whining, just like you do, but hey, one of the costs of a constant supply of cheap migrant labour that makes your life more comfortable in the US is…a bit of whining. Which you can probably ignore.
this is exactly what i mean. and it kind of hurts some of the kids around you to say stuff like that, cause the truth is that a lot of these “indian” kids are “american”.
MD,
I went to an India Day parade in NYC, and let me tell you, it was the most disappointing celebration of Indian culture I have seen anywhere in this country, and that includes state and city fairs. All floats were advertisements for businesses, career guilds, and satellite channels. Where was the culture? Granted, on the corporate floats were young brown DJ-type people, but maybe it’s just not hip these days to, I don’t know, concentrate on art, music, dance, literature…
nail on the head….
MD, Ok, i do get you now.
🙂
BTW, i saw a great little short on Logo called “An Arranged Love Marriage” ( or somesuch)….
Having waited this long, they should be given an automatic GC. Its only fair.
Tambram, from your lips to the ears of…well, whoever it is that gets to decide that sort of thing.
I know plenty of people who came to the US as students in the early to mid-90s, got a Ph.D., slaved away as postdocs at criminally low wages, and 10-12 years out, they’re still waiting for their green cards. Any sort of phase in process would be better than the current setup.
i was never allowed to watch things like 90210 – but on the other hand, i cannot say that allowing me to see half the tamil films i saw was any different
ak, I can totally relate. I guess I’m a little (or maybe a lot) older than you are, but my parents attempts to keep me as “Indian” as possible included not just restricting certain TV shows, but telling me I couldn’t wear makeup until I was 16, and of course, no dating, etc. I did try to convince them many times that the things they were worried about were far more innocent than the Tamil movies of the day, but they weren’t buying it.
But my parents also turned out to be a bit maverick in the sense that they were really good friends with all their non-desi neighbors, encouraged me to make friends with as many “different” people as possible, etc. All in all, they complained much less (and much less vocally) than some immigrants do today, IMO.
It is well known that American kids might have the gay. And if the parents’ generation had associated with Americans outside of work, we wouldn’t have The Namesake. As for marrying Americans, dude, we are still debating madi, theetu, thengalai and vadagalai, so our glorious culture can tie itself in knots without anybody’s help, thank you very much.
Absolutely, in fact, the ability to complain is a cornerstone of the American contract. Conservatives repeat over and over again, that we have this power over and over again, but don’t want anyone to ever exercise it.
By American, here I assume you mean ‘white’? If you mean the more nebulous “We’re all American!” type American, then your bulleted list doesn’t make sense, or you’re just advising us not to play with ourselves.
“complaining is a really more of a pastime than anything else”
and when they go home to visit or shift, they will bitch about that place and say how great the US was… i know people who grew up most of their life at home, moved lived worked in the US 5-6 years, go back to visit and get all sensitive about the food the water the electricity going off the roads smelling the traffic. maybe it’s the culture, bitching is just a big part of it… apparently, even later generations being affected too, bitching about new arrivals and lost jobs low wages…
there is a whole category of people who are neither first or 2nd generation, but ex pats, who go, work, go somewhere else, work there, etc… we don’t even get our own acronym to bitch about (as is the culture).. though i guess i am bitching about not having something to bitch about
Sound advice indeed. It is known to cause blindness and hairy palms.
you’re just advising us not to play with ourselves.
Uh, isn’t that supposed to make you go blind? Sounds like good advice.
hema, i think we were pretty much in the same situation. my parents are actually quite westernised – partly because they moved to a really small town in the 1960s, so were cut off from the influx of other desis to larger towns/cities. my parents are both heavily indian and heavily american – and i am thankful for that. i think the biggest fear for them – and quite frankly, it is partly justified, given the state of pop culture these days – is the inlfuence of the american attitude towards sex. to them, dating = sex, so avoiding all romantic-like contact with males was their big aim. i am almost 30, and they still hate the idea of dating. but i think in many ways it’s all moot – once i got to college, the catch-up was instantaneous.
Can you bold this? Maybe raise the font size? I’m having trouble reading it.
Dang.
To 104 – “met folks who were in their home countries (not just India), who took Steps 1 and 2, did well enough to get a residency spot, came here to do residency, then either went in to academics or joined a practice”
Sorry, I think there is some info missing – here’s the scenario. Chap has MBBS in India. Chap takes Step1/2. Chap gets I-20. Chap is now on J1. J1 chap does fellowship/residency. Now what ? You are claiming J1 chap joined a practice. How ? On what visa ? I believe in order to get the H1 visa to join a practice, you have to apply for a J1 waiver – serve 3 years in underserved community/rural area in USA. That’s what the whole MSU/HPSA gang is upto – working off their J1 waivers.
Now after the waiver is complete ie. after 3 years, you can get a GC & join a practice of your choice. Not before.
From the Times.
I don’t believe there is a loophole around this. There is no alternative. None. If there is, pls share – I know a dozen doctors personally who stand to benefit. ( There is one loophole ie. marry a US citizen – lets not go there. There is yet another loophole ie. return to home country ie. India for 2 years to work off the waiver. But the thing is, once you go back for that long, chances of getting back in are practically zero. So MSU is the only alternative afaik. )
No, I don’t mean white. I mean not letting your kids play with anyone who is not a first gen Indian, second gen Indian; you all know what I mean. You know those parents who won’t let their kids play with anyone who is not culturally of Indian heritage, whatever their citizenship, visa status is.
HMF – i think MD’s point was that to our parents, and many desis : american = white. perhaps this explains why many will never consider themselves truly american – america might allow more opportunity/equality, but not completely. it’s sort of a catch-22, really.
but i do agree with the complaint aspect – i grew up here, and when i complain, it’s because i think there is always room for improvement, and it is my right as a citizen to voice that complaint. but i also have to be judicious about complaining – because more than once, my brown skin + complaint = disloyalty in the eyes of others. it’s a real shame.
That’s my modus operandi. I hang out in temples with my eyes slightly open waiting for impressionable old parents and their nubile daughters. A dose of Gayatri mantra, a couple of pranams, and bam, before you know it, I’m being served coffee and making eyes at her from across the living room. Fast forward three months, and we might be sitting on the same couch. In a year, we might sit in adjacent seats at the movie theater watching the matinee of Hum Aapke Hain Kaun. Yes, you can put me in an oil pool and call me slick.
Post #123 It is well known that the American kids might have the gay.
What the hell does that mean???
HMF – it was pretty quick, my assimiliation into those shame-shame (to borrow anna’s phrase) ways of the americans. imagine 17 years of being exposed to things that seemed intriguing but that you were never allowed to do. and then one fine day ending up in a place where, from that point on, you knew your parents would know about the things you only wanted them to know about. of course the catch-up would be quick.
u my dawg..
That’s my modus operandi. I hang out in temples with my eyes slightly open waiting for impressionable old parents and their nubile daughters. A dose of Gayatri mantra, a couple of pranams, and bam, before you know it, I’m being served coffee and making eyes at her from across the living room. Fast forward three months, and we might be sitting on the same couch. In a year, we might sit in adjacent seats at the movie theater watching the matinee of Hum Aapke Hain Kaun. Yes, you can put me in an oil pool and call me slick.
Wow, progress! In the olden days it used to be tea.
You made me chortle out loud.
Interestingly, that is also an ancient Indian secret to get girls in India !
Rahul at #134:
I just spat pop all over my keyboard, no thanks to you!
Actually, it’s been a rough day, so thanks for the laugh…
i used to know a guy that drove around the west coast of the US meeting girls in parentally sanctioned meetings. they would go off for a little while. b*ng ain a car. say “dont think it will work out” to the parents. move on.
uber cheesy, yet, still made me laugh out loud.
You know what made me laugh?
It seems that there is truth in advertising, at least for comment handles.
By definition this is true. To be American (in a cultural sense anyway) implies at least a partial discarding of one’s own culture. European immigrants receive the payoff much faster, so there’s less “inner turmoil” when deciding how much culture to discard.
My dad is an engineer. He got his masters in the USA from an average institution during the early ’70’s. But he is lucky enough to have gotten a government engineering job, no worries about being layed off or outsourced. And so he is very happy and spends a lot of money in ways other engineers can not do so..
I plan on moving to India soon (I was born and raised in the USA) so I like the fact that more and more jobs are being outsourced.. It means more opportunities for me once I get there..
I’m not even first generation; I came here when I was 10, but I’m considered ABCD by my DBD friends even though I was born in India. I’m against the concept of dual citizenship. I’m proud of being of Indian heritage, but my allegiance is to the US. This country has educated me and given my parents and me a good life. More importantly, I believe in the values of this country. My parents also seem to feel the same way. Dad religiously flies the American flag on Memorial Day and July 4th. He also does not refer to whites as “American” which many immigrants seem to do.
My DBD friends all seem to appreciate the US, although a few seemed almost ashamed about admitting it!
Parents really do that? Whoa, if they do – these folks have no sense of good parenting. They raise their kids here which is such a mixed society and then try to isolate them to a community when the child will have to interact with other communities for most aspects of his/her life. If anything is gonna result in a confused desi, it will be such stupid attitudes. If these folks really care so much about having a ‘untarnished’ desi kid they really need to go back to some Indian village, even an Indian city wont allow them this these days.
I grew up in the US but lived in Bombay for the last 2 years. Sometimes, I say I miss the things there like the general shor-sharaba (commotion, public activity), the availibility of south indian veg food for under $2, and the friends I made there. I must admit I reminice fondly and share throughts about the things that bore/annoy me about America. OF COURSE, there are problems in India too- which I would readily admit anytime.
I guess what people just hear is “complaining” where it is probably more of a longing for a memory that you recollect as enjoyable. Also, sometimes it could just be an interesting point of discussion about the differences in cultures etc. I hate sharing it with the “if you hate it here, go back attitude” people. Because I don’t hate it here. I am a US citizen and grew up here- why would should the other person just tell me to shut up and deal with it? When they complain about travelling to India and dealing the the smell, the heat and the general problems there- do I tell them to never go back? Its just a strange standard ABDs have (and I can say this because I am one).
I just don’t like that attitude that people who came over should be so grateful and never complain because they would have been poor farmers back home. Its just not true. If a person is willing to share in an intelligent discussion about it- I am sure that pros and cons of both would come up.
Hot dogs and hamburgers.
or chicken sausage and lamburgers.
I had a whole class astonished once when I wrote a story for a writing class about the time I went to an Indian-American bbq in a park and, amongst other things, ate chicken.
“Hindus eating chicken?” they said. “That’s just weird to read.”
Just can’t win. Not even with the truth.
It was darn good chicken. Washed down with hot pots of tea (it was a modern park).
not sure if the attitude is so extreme as that . dont think anyone is saying they should never complain.