A major conflict has broken out in Punjab, between the orthodox Sikh community and a sect (which may or may not be understood as a ‘Sikh’ sect) called Dera Sacha Sauda (DSS). It’s a strange and complex issue, involving caste issues (DSS members are predominantly from what are called ‘backward’ castes), politics (DSS supporters are overwhelmingly Congress party supporters, while Punjab has for many years been dominated by the BJP-allied Akali Dal), as well fundamental questions of who gets to determine how a religion is defined.
The BBC has the basic details here:
Cities and towns across the northern Indian state of Punjab are shut in response to a general strike called by the Sikh community.
Security forces have been deployed and businesses and schools are closed for the day amid fears of violence.
Sikhs are demanding an apology from the leader of a religious sect who appeared in an advert dressed like one of the Sikh religion’s most important figures.
Sikh community leaders say it is an insult to their religion. (link)
The DSS leader’s name is Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh, and there was controversy surrounding his leadership of the DSS before the current conflagration began. The DSS has grown quite rapidly in recent years, but its leadership is also being investigated by the CBI on charges of sexual molestation, according to the Times of India:
The era also saw the sect embroiled in a number of contentious issues, especially those involving the dera chief. In 2003, an anonymous letter alleged sexual exploitation of young girls at the dera. Later, murder of a senior member of the dera and a Sirsa-based journalist set the rumour mills working overtime. Family members of the slain scribe moved the Punjab and Haryana High Court, demanding a CBI probe into the role of dera in the murder. The case was handed over to the CBI. However, the CBI probe moved at a slow pace despite the HC pulling up the investigating agency. Also, political pressure and protests by dera followers did not help.
More recently, the dera courted trouble just before the Punjab assembly elections this year. Though it enjoyed the patronage of both the Akali and Congress leaders, the president issued an edict asking his followers to support Congress candidates. According to sources, this favour was extended after the party (Punjab Congress) promised relief in the CBI case. Post elections, there have been complaints of Akalis harassing dera men. (link)
That last point in the TOI above suggests how much might be at stake in this conflict; it also shows how intimately religion and politics are intertwined in India. This is at once a religious and a political conflict, and suggestions that the state remain neutral on a matter of religious doctrine, while correct in principle, do not really seem to apply. (It’s yet another reminder of how difficult it can be to comprehend India’s “secularism”)
As a final comment, I should note that while I myself don’t have very much first-hand knowledge of the various Dera sects (there are dozens) that are currently active all over Punjab and its neighboring states, a blogger named SidhuSaaheb (via Neha Vishwanathan at Global Voices Online) does have a fair bit to say about the DSS:
As I keep track of the coverage, in newspapers and on television, of the Dera Sacha Sauda controversy, there are a few things that strike me as strange.
Firstly, the Dera has been described as a ‘Sikh sect’ in certain sections of the news media, whereas it has nothing to do with Sikhism (or any other religious faith, as for that matter).
Secondly, something that has been part of conversations in urban drawing-rooms and rural baithhaks in Punjab i.e. the Dera head issued an edict to his followers to vote for Congress (I) in the recent state assembly elections, only because that party offered to help ‘dispose off’ the criminal cases filed against the Baba and his followers (the charges include murder and sexual abuse), in case it was able to form the government, does not appear to have been mentioned in any newspaper or on any television channel.
Thirdly, most media reports seem to imply that the Sikhs have been outraged merely by the fact that the Baba appeared dressed like Guru Gobind Singh, whereas, the truth is that he not only dressed like the Guru, but also attempted to replicate, to a large extent, what the Guru did on the day of the foundation of the Khalsa (in spite of the counter-claims made in the latest press statement put out by the Dera). He tried to do a ‘role play’, in which he put himself in the place of the Tenth Master. (link)
He goes on to make some direct allegations about the murder of a family member by DSS members.
The note of outrage in SidhuSaaheb’s account of Baba Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh’s actions is one I’ve also heard from every other Sikh I’ve talked to in recent weeks, as this has been unfolding. The sense of outrage is also very much present in this Outlook article by Chander Suta Dogra, which is worth a read — though I would appreciate citations to substantiate the statistics Dogra gives on the popularity of the Deras and the “decline” of the Sikh community.
Welcome, pp!
While I agree that there are a lot of complicated issues at play here, at the end of the day, the actions of DSS are inappropriate (specifically around granting amrit). IF DSS were based around the same principles as Sikhi (from Granth to panth to Rehit), including the acknowledgment that there are no other “gurus” and that we are not to worship anything but Vaheguru, then the backlash would be highly inappropriate. I feel exactly the same way about god-men who create their own “rules” for taking amrit under the guise of “strict adherence” to Sikhi — it is all a load of BULL. I’m not excusing the violence, but I think it’s time to acknowledge the DSS as a legitimate, non-Sikh entity. Whether that makes them their own religion or whatnot, fine. Do the same for all those crazy people out there who are robbing people blind, a la TV televangelism, and calling themselves the “next guru.” I find it all perverse, but people are free to do — just don’t misrepresent a current faith tradition. It’s not like there are enough Sikhs out there, let alone Sikhs who work to study/understand their faith, for us to deal with all the already existing confusion and misconceptions around our faith. Call me a religious conservative or whatever you like, but there common principles and a common guideline to the faith that are only negotiable when the community gets together and changes it.
I’m so with you on that, Kush. I often wonder if reform is ever possible given the complete corruption of community, values, and leadership within the Sikh faith community. Maybe that’s an overbroad generalization, but more and more I find inspiring congregations to be the exception, not the rule, and I have RARELY met religious leadership (gurdwara or otherwise) that was more interested in the sangat than themselves.
So true and really sad. As my uncle-in-law commented re: Sikhi in Punjab, “Punjab, home of apostasy.” Honestly, I find the entire “Sikh clergy” element to be a huge racket, and completely eschewed by the faith.
So I haven’t really thought this through, but these are just my impressions fromt he artciel. I’m really sympathetic to the critique that DSS fills a void in services that used to be provided. At the end of the day, I don’t really know how far a religion can go when its adherents have no understanding/belief/adherence to the values underlying the faith. I see this ACROSS faith groups (not just Sikhi), but it’s especially disheartening when it happens within a tradition that you know, love, etc. The easiest example of this “form without function/values” are the principles underlying Sikhi’s requirement of seva (service) and daswand (charitably redistributing 10% of your income). When I was young, my parents had me give 10% of my allowance to the gurdwara, and I used to give all the paise I received from doing kirtan, because, after all, how can you accept payment for being a member of the sangat? At about 13 I just started donating to a food kitchen instead. Why? The gurdwara I attended was totally inaccessible to low-income people, langar was not a “free kitchen” for anyone who needed it, the leadership had cast out a woman who had been sheltered there for a few days and been abandoned by her abusive husband (and did not have any means of income) to accommodate visiting granthis, and nearly all the money I “tithed” (for lack of a better word) was used on putting a ridiculously ugly dome on the gurdwara. Where are the values in that!?
Ugh, I’m going to go stick my head in a bucket.
jyotsana,
I don’t fully agree with this. The government frequently have intervened in religious matters in the United States. It is the government that chooses the recognize a religion and therefore entitled to protection, or as a cult and not entitled to the same constitutional protection. Its also the government that outlaws bigamy and polygamy, which contradicts practice in a couple of faiths. So why would you say that the government can’t intervene in religious matters? What about Sharia Law? It is frequently undermined when its values are out of line with those of the state.
The way this dera conducts its religious business makes me feel that it is more of a fad than an emerging religion. It is meeting some need of the people they serve, but its religious roots are in other major religions, and doesn’t offer anything new spiritually. Once the services run out, it will be interesting to see how long it stands up. This is no small group, claiming upwards of 20 million adherents, rivaling Sikhs numbers in Punjab.
Even if it is a cult the principle of free association is what would apply rather than disestablishment. As long as the group, whether a cult or religion, follows the law of the land to a T, it can do anything it wants. And even there exceptions are available as for the a group that is not required to salute the flag, unlike some others that must abandon certain customs. In India things are different, and disengagement from religious matter follows the principle, “How much ever the traffic will bear.” So given the already sorry record of disengagement in India, the state shd beware and not become entangled in the religious dispute in any way. As far as law and order are concerned, it is entirely within the State’s domain – no violence, no coercion, and no support to moves for excommunication etc.,
Or can it take sides in the disputes between Protestants, Pentecoastals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, and Orthodox confessions? I am surprised we have any doubts about this. Who gets to define a religion is up to the adherents of the religion and not the state.
This is not America, this is India for heaven’s sake! Applying ivory-towerish “rights” principles would throw the country into chaos and civil war. Perhaps in fifteen generations when Indians no longer take religion as seriously as Norwegians can they consider letting their guard down. The government is right to condemn anyone insulting the Sikhs or the Christians or the Hindus. So condemn the DSS, condemn it, don’t put it out of business or banish it, as the hard-line elements in the clergy want. And then Sikhs should address the reason Dalits and others are leaving the flock, because that in the long run is what will kill the community, not the state.
Red Snapper (#48), based on my limited knowledge and experience, I wouldn’t doubt that caste issues are playing a big role here, and that the newly-assertive Dalits are reacting to Jat hegemony. Times certainly do seem to be changing. But firstly I think KV’s article exaggerated the population of Dalits – they are not the majority in the villages, in fact Jats are probably still the single biggest rural group (although they may not be an absolute majority either). Also, Jats are not all ‘rich zamindars’ as the article implied. Although several orders of magnitude more affluent than most dalits on average, there are plenty of poor Jats barely eking out an existence. The situation is not like you find in really hardcore fuedal areas (for example rural Sindh or rural Bihar) where the land-owners are barely 5% of the population….Jats are probably 35-40% of Punjab. Anyway, I think it is unfortunate that these deras are using Sikh symbols, imagery, and rituals in order to fool and attract simple people to their fold. That’s wrong, but when political parties (and huge amounts of money) get involved, it suddenly gets much worse…and that’s what’s happening here.
And Jyotsana, before you go praising the Arya Samaj too much, let’s not forget that they didn’t just limit themselves to a religious or social role…they got very involved in politics and culture too. They are probably the main reason that Punjabi Hindus distanced themselves from the Punjabi language (and the secular cultural heritage of Punjab), and instead adopted (in theory if not always in practice) Hindi and Hindi culture. They are the main reason the Punjabi Hindu press and politicians decided to oppose any demand, however reasonable, of Sikhs, starting soon after 1947. The Arya Samaj didn’t build any bridges, it built walls between communities. An ‘us’ vs. ‘them’ mentality. And they really wanted to throw the baby out with the bathwater…they weren’t just opposed to rituals or superstitions…they promoted their vision with a zeal any Puritan could have been proud of, and were against anything other than their own narrow, limited view of how things should be, what people should believe, and how they should conduct themselves.
Amitabh
There’s so much wrong with this, I don’t know where to start. First of all there was more than one Arya Samaj ,I don’t have Durga Das’s magisterial “From Curzon to Nehru…”, where he describes the many Arya samaj groups that were active in the ‘harvest’ for souls in early 1900s Punjab. This was a time of urbanisation and cheap irrigation was driving up agricultural productivity. While the extreme Arya Samaj clans did preach an austere Vedic form of Hinduism (which was entirely a result of colonial description of Hinduism), there were otehr clans who took no offence to mamsa and mathya and were more successful in bringing the urbanised masses (who professed no creed but followed a 100 different traditions). This was also a time when Protestant missionaries became very active in Punjab, and while the Sikh groups had no organised means of offering a counter vision, the Arya Samajis did. These times came well after Swami Dayanand Saraswati who passed away decades earlier in 1983. The term ‘secular cultural heritage’ cannot mean anything unless it is a heritage built and nurtured by a State that has disengaged itself from religious matters. If OTOH you are trying to talk of a multi-source cultural heritage, you are talking of every Indian tradition, because none of them flows from a dogmatic religion. The Arya Samaj was simply like any other religious group that was involved in the politics of the day. I hope you don’t mean that they were the only ones? There are several reasons why Hindus in Punjab could have -as you say- distanced themselves from the Punjabi language. The Arya Samaj has never represented anything more than a few Hindus here and there. In fact in the Punjab of those days, there were very sharp diviions within families between Arya Samajis and Sanatanis.
Amitabh, I would love to have a break down of the demographics of Punjab. My RaviDassia Sikh friend basically concurs with the article KV posted in its entirety and said there is a correlation between dalit Sikh alienation and the Jat hegemony of the Sikh establishment, and that it’s a real problem (which even manifests itself in the diaspora). Either way, I agree with you that the most repellent thing in this situation is the sight of politicians playing out their proxy battles from behind religious sectarianism. You would have thought that these blockheads and idiots would have learnt from recent history.
There are some great articles about the situation in this weeks Tehelka. Probably the best analysis of the whole thing yet. The dera guy is corrupt as hell.
Red Snapper, excellent links to Tehelka. To make things more complex, it seems the leader of the dera (and the one who instigated all this trouble) is a Jat himself. So it’s not simple Dalit vs. Jat going on. I imagine quite a few dera followers might be Jat too. Anyway the guy is scum, yet people are eating it all up. It seems to be a cult, nothing more, nothing less. Who are the 2.5 crore (25 million) followers of the dera? Must be a lot of people from local (Punjab, Rajasthan, Haryana) Hindu backgrounds as well. But is that number for real? How did that many people go under the radar this long? Is the dera being hyped and exaggerated beyond believable proportion? As for risible’s comments about ‘sanatani sikhi’, I don’t think that’s what’s going on here at all…it’s not some revival or return to organic, indigenous, diverse pre-Sikh religious practices…it’s a very modern, new(ish), well-organised phenomenon of charismatic cult leaders exploiting people for money, power, and sex. Supported by one of the most rotten political parties in India (and that’s saying something)…the Congress Party. At one time in the late 80s/early 90s, that party was responsible for THREE major disturbances going on at the same time…Kashmir, Punjab, and Assam. And now they’re back and ready to rock and roll. After all, Rahul Gandhi has to be prime minister one day, right?
Amitabh, Shekhar Gupta and Tavleen Singh both of whom have been around for a loooong time have already dissected the issue and exposed the Congress’s role. While I am not a journalist, I remember those days leading up to the troubles in Punjab and know what a mean dirty role the Congress played. The DSS must have been around for some years to have amassed all its wealth and perpetrate those deeds it is being accused of. Now who was in power in Punjab until recently? What were the Akali dal doing while all this happend? More questions.
Just an explanation for those people reading this thread who may not know: Akalis refers to members of the Akali Dal, a political party which supposedly represents mainstream or ‘orthodox’ Sikhs (as opposed to these various sects and deras).
Jyotsana, you said:
I absolutely disagree. Heritages (secular or otherwise) do not need to be built and nurtured by any ‘state’ or political authority. They can be organic expressions of a people’s cultural impulses and inherited traditions. And they are what bind a people. Secular heritage implies that which is part of a shared culture of a people, that does not have explicit or overt ties to religion (except to the extent that the religion may be an important part of the culture of the region and therefore permeates through to various extents). In the case of Punjab, along with the language itself, I would say that for example, the folk songs, boliyan, wedding songs, the various dances, etc. are all parts of the secular heritage. Going a step further, I would say that the literature and stories (and associated poetry, songs, and music) like Mirza-Sahiban, Heer-Ranjha etc. are also a secular heritage, despite the characters being nominally Muslim and some of the substance having Punjabi Muslim undertones and ethos (albeit that of a bygone era). The Guru Granth Sahib, and the trappings of the Sikh religion, while not part of a secular heritage per se (except to VERY broad-minded people) were nonetheless a part of the culture of Punjabi Hindus too. Arya Samaj despised all the above as being corrupted by ‘non-vedic’ influences…their own fabricated understanding of the vedas notwithstanding. But maybe we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the relative merits (or lack thereof) of the Arya Samaj. It is true that it was a time of self-conscious identity-formation and identity-crystallisation, and various Sikh and Muslim groups were complicit too, in taking people away from their shared commonalities.
Perhaps muslims should object to the insult of Sikhs dressing like mughals?
Jatt sikhs have violated the mandate of the Sikh Gurus with their ugly casteism and racism. Clearly they are the main villains of the piece here. What choice do the discriminated dalits have but to set up a parallel religion? Convert to christianity or Islam? Or spinelessly accept being treated like dirt?
So, even mainstream sikhs with a conscience are disgusted by the casteism that has poisoned their religion.
Now those same Jatt sudras have allied with the party of brahmins and banias, the BJP, to crush the uppity untouchables. Thats the ancient and ugly reality of casteist India.
Camille!
You’re talking about El Sobrante! Aren’t you? For clarity sake, I added numbers in your quote and #1, 2, 3 are issues I have not heard of and I’ve heard about a lot of issues (although, I have been out of the loop recently). If you are talking about El Sob, I thought that dome was paid for by an individual from the east coast? Did I get the wrong story? I am totally with you on your general sentiment about the gurdwara. If you can, email me about #1-3 so I can fuel my rage.
Hey NVM,
I am talking about El Sobrante, which I attended from the ripe old age of 6-16 before I stopped going altogether for a long litany of reasons. You didn’t get the story wrong – the dome WAS donated (although I think it is HIDEOUS and doesn’t at all match the architecture – if you are going to donate, why not spend that $1m or however much it cost on providing free health clinic services or something useful!?), but part of the cost of installing it came out of gurdwara donations. I also get ANGRY when they use donations to pay to have some hot-shot granthi come and perform like they were a rock star. Meanwhile there was practically no seva coming out of the gurdwara. I can’t speak to current issues; I haven’t attended El Sob in nearly 8 years.
Item 1 is a function, largely, of the physical location. Item 2 happened when I was about 10 (so around ’95?). I’ll follow up via email. 🙂
Were you around when they did the huge expansion (back when the current langar hall was the Darbar Sahib – I think it was in ’92)? That was a time rife with drama also. Even the selection of the location for the site was drama-based — there was a group who wanted it down hill (so it would be accessible) and a group who wanted it uphill (so it would be “majestic,” although the soil at the top of the hill is absolutely not seismically sound). The list continues. Oh, El Sobrante.
Wowie wow wow. Where to begin? I think its best to take this offline but if you haven’t been there in years there’s going to be a MASSIVE expansion of the site:
I’m not at all surprised that social services, seva, and community outreach are non-existent because the decision makers are essentially engineers who have an wide-eyed fascination with that hill and they desperately want to conquer it =)
The main question is that why the Sikh leadership could not convince masses towards its religion. Who are Sikhs in Punjab. There are many like Nihang Sikhs, Amritdhari Sikhs, Sehajdhari Sikhs, Jat Sikhs, Lubane Sikhs, Mahjabi Sikhs, Ramdasia Sikhs and list does not end here. What the Jathedars are doing. They blame Deras for everything. Why people are going to Deras and why they are not coming to the Sikh-fold. This is the main worry of Punjab.
Prema is here. Things surely get interesting, dont’ they? It’s fun to read a person who writes and then thinks!
One of the father-son duos fielded by the BJP this time is a sanatani Hindu father who is dalit, and whose son is a Sikh, both of whom represented the BJP! and hey Prema, I thought you weren’t interested in caste? Can understand the anxiety. As caste becomes irrelevant the Hindu vote bloc grows. Mayavati has shown that in UP. Maybe that is what is happening in Punjab too. BTW it is the Simranjit Singh Mann led fundamentalists who have taken up arms against the DSS, and are the same folk who indulge in the sort of hate speech you are famous for, sniping at brahmins and banias. Understandable. When a hatemonger’s currency diminishes the abuse flies fast and loose. Keep at it Prema.
[Perhaps muslims should object to the insult of Sikhs dressing like mughals?]
huh.
Amitabh writes:
As for risible’s comments about ‘sanatani sikhi’, I don’t think that’s what’s going on here at all…it’s not some revival or return to organic, indigenous, diverse pre-Sikh religious practices…it’s a very modern, new(ish), well-organised phenomenon of charismatic cult leaders
Well, its certainly not gotten much due in the cultural and political analysis coming out of Punjab and Delhi in recent days, but one article alludes to the history I’ve mentioned: ”The popularity of these groups did grow after the militancy years people needed something to hang on to,” said Prof MS Gill, Panjabi University. Akali-Dera tension traces its roots to medieval times when Kabir Panth sought to bring in the masses.  As a growing number of poorer Sikhs found themselves left behind, Deras increasingly became their sense of identity.
  Have you considered that the Singh Sabhas may have been the Sikh analogue to the Hindu Arya Samaj? As I recall, the Singh Sabhas spent much time going from village to village discouraging “inauthentic” practices, which they considered antithetical to the Khalsa tradition, which as you know, was one of many Sikh perspectives floating around in the 19th century. Also, I agree with the consensus: caste bigotry is the central issue here, that’s whats luring Mazbhi Sikhs away from Sikhism, and the Kangressi schemes are disgusting as usual.
I have been following the developments with quite amusement. I have observed and have raised it a few times with india (1) Freedom of Speech means freedom to offend. This is something indians allways ignore, particularly on religion
(2) Sikhs like to say that they are warrior saints and on on about miri piri but what they are an ethnic group.
(3) Khushwant Singh is a dumbass. This is not related to the blog but to the topic. The man was on zee punjabi and was uniformed. He perhaps allways needs a cunningham figure to selectively rewrite books from.
Lies are spread faster than the truth, and this is exactly what is happening currently.
This is an affair which clearly shows the political game of the Akalis against the pure and pious Dera Sacha Sauda, has definitely led to loss of peace across the nation. Various news channels have so far claimed that after having lost to congress(said to have been supported by the dera followers) in the Malwa belt, the Akalis had been looking for revenge. And finding a reason (petty issue as dress!), they tried to arouse the religious sentiments of people and have created high tension in Punjab and Haryana.
What had the government in punjab been doing??? Maintaining peace or helping out the Akalis with their dirty politics to take out revenge??? Where was the police when the so called True Sikhs were setting the Deras in Punjab on fire, beating people and trying to kill them as well???? Is this the motive of them being in power??? They are simply trying to put false accusations and allegations against a saint who has always worked for the noble causes, and has taught love, peace and harmony.
The members of Shah Satnam Ji Green S Welfare force were the first to reach Andaman to save the people in Tsunami disaster, when even the military and other rescue operators were not able to reach there. They had helped and set up 36 villages in guajarat earthquake and had provided with relief works. It was the true saint Gurmaat Ram Rahim Singh ji who has prepared Shah Satnam Ji Green S Welfare force to help people in times of disasters. Check out the history of last 10 years, and you will find that anywhere in India, if at all there has been any natural calamity, the Dera sacha Sauda Master and the followers have been the key helping persons, without whom the affected people would have been left to suffer infinitely!!!
Such an institution and its followers are only and only worth respect and praise for all their sacrifices and noble deeds.
Definitely yes…This can very well be seen… the political parties are just trying to arouse the sentiments of the Sikhs to solve their own selfish purpose. In delhi, the badal Govt. had sent their Bhaarhe ke tattooo….i.e hired people (sikhs) to make out a procession and to hamper the peace. Now this is what has been happeniing. They are insulting our own religion that has taught us to live in peace and spread love.
A true GurSikh will always comdemn these acts. Why do we feel that our religion is being threatened?? Are we so weak????? No one can stop u sfrom following Sikhism.. then why such a hue and cry about something, that actually has nothing to do with Sikhism??? have we lost our roots altogether??? WAKE UP people!!! This is just another game of dirty politics…and nothing else.
They talk of the votes…hahaha…. Badal himself had gone to Dera before elections to seek blessings and ask for votes…and who had not gone?? BJP, Congress..every party had gone….
And now cases are their against Badal, against Amarinder singh, of sending Rs 10 crores illegally to Swiss bank .. hope everybody knows.what it is..and if not, check the news…
And they talk of Sikhism…of religion/…..
They only know how to get votes and money…
Singh, though I agree that the tasks done by the dera for the humanitarian concerns are praiseworthy, but I still feel that copying (if at all has been done), might be a concern to many others. And if, that is not the case, and the whole thing is nothing but a political chakravyooh, then there is no use talking of Sikhism or any other religion, for the politician’s only religion is currency, money, power, ,and nothing else.
At times it makes me think that the blogger himself is just be a blind supporter of those politicians, because otherwise, one would have no reason to write just any non authentic article…
No offence meant to anyone.
interesting !!!
Who are you!? Comments like this are an embarrassment to humankind. Sick, misogynistic, and completely unrelated to the conversation at hand.
Dearest intern, I hate to say this, but is it necessary to leave this post up?
I’ve decided to frame this as a copyright/intellectual property issue. It seems that the SGPC and Tat Khalsa-types think they own the copyright to Sikh “symbols” and iconography, even though idolatry is clearly prohibited by Sikh doctrine as codified by the SGPC.
So it’s like Disney declaring holy war against Thailand for making knock-off Mickey Mouse gear…(While ignoring the drug problem, the brain drain, the farmer suicides, the female foeticide, the unemployment, the sorry educational system, and a host of other problems in The Magic Kingdom.)
I agree fully with views of Mr. Singh. I am also a sikh and have respect for all Sikh Gurus. We can sacrifice our lives for respect of Gurus, but have we ever though that our Gurus were also Dehdhari sikhs and now we oppose Dehdhari Gurus which clearly indicate that we are opposing our Gurus. God can come in any roop of Guru as it has appeared in roop of ten gurus in past. Therefore being a sikh we should respect all the human beings leaving aside the pride of being sikh.
anywhereLies are spread faster than the truth, and this is exactly what is happening currently -yes same is the case here
This is an affair which clearly shows the political game of the Akalis against the pure and pious Dera Sacha Sauda, has definitely led to loss of peace across the nation. Various news channels have so far claimed that after having lost to congress(said to have been supported by the dera followers) in the Malwa belt, the Akalis had been looking for revenge. And finding a reason (petty issue as dress!), they tried to arouse the religious sentiments of people and have created high tension in Punjab and Haryana. – Absolutely true
What had the government in punjab been doing??? Maintaining peace or helping out the Akalis with their dirty politics to take out revenge???- Akali Govt. is taking revenge of not supporting in elections Where was the police when the so called True Sikhs were setting the Deras in Punjab on fire, beating people and trying to kill them as well???? Is this the motive of them being in power??? They are simply trying to put false accusations and allegations against a saint who has always worked for the noble causes, and has taught love, peace and harmony.
The members of Shah Satnam Ji Green S Welfare force were the first to reach Andaman to save the people in Tsunami disaster, when even the military and other rescue operators were not able to reach there. They had helped and set up 36 villages in guajarat earthquake and had provided with relief works. It was the true saint Gurmaat Ram Rahim Singh ji who has prepared Shah Satnam Ji Green S Welfare force to help people in times of disasters. Check out the history of last 10 years, and you will find that anywhere in India, if at all there has been any natural calamity, the Dera sacha Sauda Master and the followers have been the key helping persons, without whom the affected people would have been left to suffer infinitely!!!
Such an institution and its followers are only and only worth respect and praise for all their sacrifices and noble deeds.
When you donot know anything about dera then you have no rights to tell wrong about the dera. Have you anytime came to dera and looked what happened here..??? You people only want to ruin the Dera Sacha sauda. Whenever natural calimity happened , Dera first stood in front to help the affected people. At that time no people like you came and praise the dera work. How mean you people are.
Don’t worry ppl…..you must have heard “barking dogs seldom bite”…..and ofcourse Truth alone wil triumph. So in due course of time everything will become transparent to everybody, and the flourishing truth will be seen by all….Dera has not been involved in any illegal activities, that alone is the reason why the CBI has not been successful in getting any evidence against dera. false accusations can not be proved; the only thing they tried to do early also was to produce false witnesses, and they may try to do this time and again. But lastly and finally….truth will become evident.
Well in my opinion, the extremists in Sikh religion over-reacted and created an issue out of nothing. There was not any issue in my understanding and the extremists played with our sentiments. It is all a political game and the normal people like you and me are ruined in this game.
On the other hand, as some people pointed out, let us try to see why Dera Sacha Sauda is so popular. If we find out information and analyse, we will understand that Dera Sacha Sauda is in fact doing a very noble deed. They are working for social causes, helping people in need, building houses for poor, giving employment to the needy and what not. That is really commendable job. I got to know about their activities not only in Punjab, but here in US and UK also. They are doing these social activities globally.
Also if we see at the principles of Dera Sacha Sauda (as mentioned in some news sites and sites, they have 47 principles). Each of those principles is as pure as Khalsa.
I am from a Sikh family. I am really shameful for all the acts done by heads of our religion in the name of Sikhism. Is our religion so weak who is not in a position to face even these kind of small things? Is any body tried to compare the original dress of Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji with the dress of Dera Chief? Even a basic thing which is a colour of the dress worn by Dera Chief is not matching with the dress of Shri Guru Gobind SIngh Ji? Moreover, a regret note and appology has come from Dera Sacha Sauda regretting from Guru Gobind Singh Ji. I just want to ask one basic thing, is our sikh religion or Akal Takhat is bigger than Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji? If Dera Chief has already taken the forgiveness from Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, then why peoples should comment that seriousness is not there in apology letter.
Is that so Harminder? Are the followers of DSS globally spread ? i thought that they were mainly dalits, but reading the above few comments, apparently they belong to all the casts, creeds and religions….
Whatever……DSS does has a lot of momentum …. it does not look like an ordinary Dera…an ordinary so called Dera definitely can not have 3 crore Followers….I am impressed..whatever be the case…Just see their guts…they are willing to sacrifice themselves completely for their guru…I am sure that this saint is as pooran/perfect as our Gurus. I am reminded of few incidents from our Sikh history…..Guru nank dev ji, was pelted with stones..and initially nobody used to believe him….it was only sometime later that people realised that he was a true saint, and then they began to follow him.
may be history is repeating itself.
Guys, we can all agree that the confrontation engineered by religious politicians is wrong. We can all agree on the need for restraint by the Sikh establishment and the need to not escalate the situation, and the need for Sikh establishment to address the spiritual vacuum that attracts followers to the dera. We can also praise the charitable work done by the Dera. But I’m having a hard time reconciling the fact that the Baba seems to have orchestrated this whole affair to distract from charges pending against him for the sexual abuse of girls at the dera and the murder of journalists from Haryana who investigated this crime.
You can find a breakdown of the charges here. And a letter from a woman detailing her abuse here. With more on the Baba here.
These are all taken from Tehelka, one of the most independent and credible newspapers in India without any bias towards Sikh hardliners, which in fact criticises the machinations and games of the Sikh hardliners on this issue. However, after reading the background of the dera I have to say it’s not a pretty picture. If you’re going to talk about truth regarding this situation you better face up to these issues. Systematic sexual abuse of women and the murder of journalists suggests all is not rosy on the dera side of the fence.
I’m sorry but I just couldnt sit back and not comment on this after reading the hagiographies of the Baba recited above, knowing and reading about this aspect of the situation.
I’m shocked that there are so many supporters of the dera who have suddenly popped up on this thread…
SM Intern, are they all from different IP locations?
If they’re for real, then this dera business is bigger (and has more reach) than I thought. How messed up.
@Red Snapper:
Hi, I am also a Sikh and follower of Dera Sacha Sauda. All the allegations are false and till date the so called anonymous letter has not been verified forensically. CBI has not been able to file/prove any charges after so many years. It is all bloody political game.
Today Badal is talking about arresting Dera Guruji, it is the same Badal who came to Sirsa to ask for votes in January. Also Navjot Singh Sidhu and Arun Jaitley came to Sirsa when they came to know that Dear is supporting Congress. Where is the credibility of so called Akali Badal?
I hope that the Truth will be evident soon.
Two journalists have been murdered after investigating the sexual abuse of women at the dera. One of the reasons why the sexual abuse has not been investigated is because of the obstruction and intimidation of investigators. You can’t blame it all on Badal and the Akali Dal. For a start, it all happened in Haryana, where the Akali Dal’s writ does not run.
Look, I think that what the Sikh hardliners are doing is wrong. But the amount of hagiography and denial about the Baba can’t go un-answered. Just a little reading of credible and independent news resources and journalists makes that plain. In fact, the dera has used mob violence before to threaten members of the judiciary investigating complaints against the Baba. You can read all of this in the Tehelka links above. Surely you’re not suggesting that Tehelka is part of a conspiracy against the dera?
Was the story cross-linked on another site? The sudden influx of impassioned commenters has been on a few threads, now, and seems to be linked to whenever “Sikh” comes up. Just an observation.
Oh, and I’m with Red.
*Just a little reading of credible and independent news resources and journalists makes that plain.
The news is not credible because nothing has been proved yet….the anonymous letter has not been verified forensically. lemme tell you how it feels…suppose somebody puts up the same false accusation(sexual abuse) against your parents…will you be able to take it up?? No. Never. I don’t ,mean to offend anyone, but definitely you got a flavour of the feel that you have been trying to giv eto the DSS followers.
Now, the same can be written in n number of newspapers…but again, it can not be proved. It is the same case. Fame and name are always accompanied by envy and enemies. And this is exactly the case.
READ THIS :
Female foeticide, or killing the girl child in the mother’s womb, is a highly prevalent malpractice in Punjab ad Haryana. It prevails not only in the towns and villages, but is also dominant in major cities as well.
But to the relief of all those innocent lives, that are yet to see the world, a very noble, pious, and Godly initiative has been started by the saint Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh ji Insaan, the present Guruji of Dera Sacha Sauda, Sirsa, Haryana.
“Shahi Betiyaan Baserahâ€, as it is called, is a home to all those female children who have been abandoned by their parents. Guruji has established this home for these innocent children, where they are being provided best in class living and educational facilities.
This is one of the classic examples of leadership by example. Guruji teaches and preaches everyone, not to kill the girl child, and to give her equal love and status as to the male child. Considering the ever growing rate of female foeticide, this is a vital step taken ahead, and the message has been spread across that whosoever does not want girl child should not kill her, either in the womb, or after birth. Instead, handover the child in this “Shahi Betiyaan Baserahâ€, where it will be taken care of, and the parents will not have to become the killer of their own child.
AND READ THIS : Humanity is all about serving our fellow beings selflessly. This can be done in various ways, and just one of these ways is providing free medical services to the poor people, for they are generally not in a condition to support themselves or their families.
One such kind and noble initiative has been undertaken by Dera Sacha Sauda, wherein every year a Mega Eye camp is held on 13th, 14th and 15th of December. This camp was initiated by Saint Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh ji Insaan in the everlasting memory of the worldly voyage of Param Pita Shah Satnam ji Maharaj, the second Guruji of Dera Sacha Sauda.
The camp takes care of cataract and other eye diseases and conducts operations to cure the same. This is done free of cost for all the patients, and accommodation, food and medicines are also provided to them without any charges. Doctors from all over the country participate voluntarily to provide their services in such a great mission. Every patient and doctor is individually bestowed with Guruji’s blessings.
This is one of the few ‘Small incision cataract surgery’ Mega Eye Camps internationally. Dera Sacha Sauda has always worked for these causes and will keep on doing so in future as well for the welfare of the whole society.
AND THIS :
26th December 2004 witnessed one of the deadliest natural disasters that took thousands of lives across the globe. Yes, you got that right, it was when Tsunami had hit various parts of the globe, washing away totally some of the islands from the world map. Overall, more than one lac people were drowned and washed away by the enormous high tide waves witnessed in the parts of Indian ocean affecting Indonesia, Thailand, Ceylon and India.
In India, in particular Andaman & Nicobar and Tamil Nadu were badly hit areas.
The very first team to reach the islands of Andaman and Nicobar was the “Shah Satnam Ji Green S Welfare force” from Dera Sacha Sauda Sirsa. None of the other rescue workers were able to reach there , since the place was still experiencing earthquakes and high waves from the ocean. But under the guidance and blessings of Saint Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh ji Insaan, the “Shah Satnam Ji Green S Welfare force” reached the suffering people on 8th jan, 2005, and helped them to settle all over again.
These volunteers, which included Doctors, Engineers, Carpenters, Mechanics, Electricians etc., stayed in the difficult terrain of Kamorta, Kachal etc. for more than 53 days to help the suffering masses, and distributed the relief material. They supplied tonnes of Rice, Wheat Flour, Biscuits, Medicine, Utensils, Torches, Candles, Pulses, Sugar, Edible salt, Soaps and above all the drinking water. A remarkable aspect of selfless and dedicated service was noticed when the youth of Green –S Welfare Force extended full support and co-operation in the areas where a meagre strength of Naval personnel could reach. The situation was made very dangerous and damaging due to frequent tremors of earthquake and high tide cyclones; but they could not flag the morale and faith of the volunteers. I appreciate the faith, the courage and the sense of humanity that these volunteers carry with themselves, and with which they have been and will keep on serving humanity.
Actions speak louder than words….do you have the guts to do even 1 % of the welfare activities carried out by them???
If so, than let your actions speak for you, as it speaks for them.
http://www.derasachasauda.in/ http://www.truthandmyth.org/ http://www.shahsatnamjigreens.org/?q=node/25 http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/body_parts/largest_blood_donation.aspx http://derahelpstsunamivictims.blogspot.com/ http://againstfemalefoeticidedss.blogspot.com/ http://megaeyecampdss.blogspot.com/ http://nidhiinsaan.blogspot.com/
when are the state govmnt and congress gona leave punjab alone …are they that jealous of sikhs and the power of sikhi..? when are they gonna stop funding terrorist deras and use the money on feeding the poor ppl of india instead..that is what i would do but then i hav the guidance of sikhi…..why are the rest of indians that are non sikh so blind to the fact that pro hindu activists are destroying punjab and its ppl…when are the true hindus gona stand up for their sikh bretheren and say enough is enough…..oh and if u believe what state controlled newspapers and media tell you…u must be a uneducated buffon and dont understand the concept of propaganda…something which has plagued india since partition
@navi
“Terrorist Deras”??? Wish u wud cm to Dera 1 day and see for urself the things goin on thre…
btw I found an interesting blog..
http://abhishekahuja.sulekha.com/blog/post/2007/05/a-day-at-dera-sacha-sauda-sirsa-haryana.htm
People, stop looking. Dera’s no Dera Dare.
Here is the link to blog I was referring to:
btw I http://abhishekahuja.sulekha.com/blog/post/2007/05/a-day-at-dera-sacha-sauda-sirsa-haryana.htm
What about the murdered journalists?
The accusations and evidence of systematic sexual abuse?
The intimidation, violence and even murder of people who refused to sell their land to the dera?
Read the Tehelka articles, they are all accurately sourced and written. You can’t just make them go away by sulking and saying that they are not true. The Tehelka journalists are not part of any conspiracy to defame the Dera, they are certainly no friends of the Sikh hardliners. The truth is, they ask some very disturbing questions, and as long as people try to deny that, these things have to be restated.
Navi, you need to confront problems without resorting to conspiracy theories and imagined fears. Whatever problems affect Sikhs and Punjab are not because of nefarious ‘pro hindu activists’, they come from within Punjabi and Sikh society and have to be adressed by Sikhs and Punjabis without paranoid communalist conspiracy theories and by using your own intellectual, spiritual and social resources.
Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh !