In today’s NYT there is an article about a bobo couple’s experiment with low impact living in “an elegant prewar on Lower Fifth Avenue”. They’re eating only locally grown food stuffs and eschewing even spices, olive oil and vinegar because these come from further away. They’re buying only food, composting their trash, and they’ve stopped using paper. All paper. Writing paper, paper towel, and even … toilet paper. This last bit is supposed to let us know that they’re serious about their experiment:
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A visitor avoided the bathroom because she knew she would find no toilet paper there… Toothpaste is baking soda … Nothing is a substitute for toilet paper, by the way; think of bowls of water and lots of air drying… [Link]
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p>I’m just not impressed. Don’t get me wrong, as an ABD I like my conveniences, and I’m not willingly going give this one up. On the other hand, it just doesn’t seem like that much of a hard core thing to do. My FOB friends swear that TP is unhygienic compared to a lota; a buddy from silicon valley used to smuggle his in and out of the bathroom because he just felt … dirtier without.
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p>For this couple, it’s all part of a stunt designed to generate a non-fiction book (he’s a writer). However, a far better place to look for hard core urban environmentalism is in the Dharavi slums of Bombay, Asia’s largest. Dharavi takes the discards of Bombay’s 19 million residents and turns it into close to $1 Billion of production a year, making it the world’s richest slum.
… Dharavi is becoming the green lung stopping Mumbai choking to death on its own waste… This is where 80 per cent of Mumbai’s plastic waste is given a new life. All around young boys cart wheelbarrows filled with everyday plastic waste. Junk is a word that does not exist. Dharavi’s plastic recycling industry employs almost 10,000 people, melting, reshaping and moulding discarded plastic. Close by you will find the soap-makers who reprocess soap from hotels and schools. In single rooms hundreds of men toil in the heat over large metal troughs filled with sinister-looking yellow-green liquid. Around them their co-workers boil vats of molten soap, stirring the cauldrons with oar-sized sticks.
Dharavi is an extraordinary success story, its recycling industry employs over 250,000 people … The new money through recycling has in effect spawned a new slum gentry. Certain corners of Dharavi have even gone upmarket with bars, beauty parlours and clothing boutiques. Last week a major bank opened the slum’s first ATM. [Link]
I don’t want to romanticize Dharavi. These sound like hazardous working conditions, and I’m sure much of what’s going on is toxic. Life in Dharavi sounds grim:
There is little sign of clean drinking water and the sanitation facilities are appalling – up to 800 people are forced to share one toilet. [Link]
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p>But these are the folks who really impress me with their recycling. Of course, a book on them wouldn’t sell as well as a book on the bobo couple would. For one thing the conditions in Dharavi are too far from those in America for the audience to comprehend, for another you can’t write a book about the third world without a white protagonist.
p.s. The residents of Dharavi are currently fighting a battle to prevent their slum from being razed as part of an urban redevelopment scheme. Expect to hear more about it as the conflict heats up.
Related posts: Politicians are full of …
Oh yes, toilet paper. It is in the title of the article, mentioned twice, and no less than two comments said “life is not worth living without tp”. Although I hadn’t finished my first cup of tea, I had to point out in my comment that my firangi friends who’ve tried water haven’t wanted to go back. And yes, that it’s a little pathetic to cling so to the Charmin’.
this is true. if you fell face first on a pile of shit, would you just wipe the shit off w/ TP, or use water.
Manju,
If my face looked as bad as my a’hole, I would probably use TP 🙂
The point here is not what is more hygienic? The point is what is more convenient. TP is and helps keep the restrooms cleaner too. Try going to a Public Restroom where everyone uses water and a lota………
The middleground, moist wipes 🙂 Hygienic and convenient.
–qt
qualified_trash:
Brilliant! Never thought of that.
Of course, there is the biday, but a society not ready for gay marriage probably won’t take to a machine that shoots a powerful stream up one’s ass. Bathroom RealPolitik.
Moist wipes it is.
Speaking of toddler behavior, how come me no get credit for the news link/tip?
Never mind. I love you guys anyway 🙂
On a related tip, Al Gore went mano-a- mano w/ Oklahoma Senator and global warming skeptic Inhofe in Barbara Boxer’s Environment and Public Works Committee yesterday. Inhofe was ofcourse aching to call out Gore on his extravagantly wasteful Supersized McMansion. Gore predictably replied with the carbon credit off-setting argument. More disturbing is that I watched 2 hours of C-Span last nite.
Not very impressed either, this protectionism disguised as environmentalism is just going to make it harder for the developing world to better their lot. Sorry, but I aint buying it.
I had a white, Westchester, NY-raised friend in college who refused to wipe his ass with anything other than a moist towelette (or barring that a faucet-moistened paper towel). I had never heard of such a thing before, but it’s pure genius. Charmin used to sell individually wrapped towelettes for just such a purpose, but I don’t know if they still do.
i think he buys the credits form his own hedge fund, taking the enlightenment credit card concept to a whole new level. If only poor Ted Haggard was as imaginative.
Shhh. This sounds like a Sepia Mutiny Start up Venture. AMFD, please get one of your IP friends to patent it. MoorNam will raise the money. Vinod can run it.
This is how the Gores, Winfreys, and Bonos think. Can’t let them make all the money.
See I read the article and thought it was an interesting concept and can’t always have a kneejerk reaction by comparing everything to India and poopooing choices people make no matter how small. Of course there are those that believe that Al Gore is a big faker and global warming is a big hoax. Every little bit counts. I made a lot of significant changes for me in the past year that were personal and that sometimes are made fun of and there is certainly nothing snobby about it. What this article does is validate the choices a lot of people have made to their everyday life in their own little way irrespective of how much more ecoefficient Dharavi may be. We don’t live in Dharavi we live here.
I actually rather enjoyed the break from the TP when I went to India. I couldn’t understand though how people just allowed themselves to be wet. Not an option that worked for me so I used a towel after water (I realize TMI) but it was certainly much more cleaner and a matter of getting used to. Obviously everyone has a bedei (spell??) in India and those aren’t available here in the US so a no TP option is no good. I did install a hose at home that I’m quite happy with. It was rather easy to install and stems right out of my sink piping and has it’s own shutoff.
Plus, we can perfume the SM Moist Ass-Wipe with an incense scent, just to make it exotic. Sell it for $35/ roll. Bobo’s will love it.
It’s important to note that the motivation behind Dharavi’s “recylcing” isn’t high minded eco-commitment ala Al Gore but rather, cold hard economic incentive ala Al Greenspan.
I floated over to No Impact Man’s blog. It’s an interesting read. But there are a few troubling items… most notably the way he describes his wife (whom he uses as a foil; a sort of “see what the consumerist person wants, and see how I, the enlightened environmentalist, can set her straight?”).
Also he never really describes what he’s using in lieu of toilet paper. One would think that if he had found a lota, he would have written about it. On the other hand, if the rules are “no buying anything except food,” then he probably wouldn’t have gotten his hands on one.
So the timing of this post — by design or accident? Happy Thursday lunch everyone.
Moist towelettes sound like a good compromise but they are worse for the environment than either water or tp as they take longer to degrade not to mention all the chemicals used in making them “smell good”. Individually wrapped towelettes create way more waste than necessary.
Crap green.
Ok, I’m a tamil. Tamils were raised to respect paper because you get education through paper and all legal documents are of paper, if my foot accidentally touches a paper, I must touch the paper with my hands and then touch my eyes much like I am praying / being blessed. So we are not supposed to use paper to wipe our ass because it is disrespectfull to the paper..
I used TP when I was younger but stopped after my last trip to India..
Bidet
, said the old sailor pissing into the sea.
That would make for an interesting adventure while walking down a New York City street.
damn, your right. this will make it difficult to market the SM moist ass-wipe to bobos. we’ll need to start an SM ass-wipe offset hedge fund, so they’ll feel guilt-free and we can make even more $$.
Manju,
Ofcourse, for consumption in the EU, we will call it the Poopie Tax.
JOAT writes:
If I could highlight this word more, I would. This is the distinction I make as well: I will be as environmentally friendly as humanly possible, but only in a personal manner. I will not join the Gorebal warming brigade who tell others what to do and what not to do.
M. Nam
It’s called a douche (not to be confused with the slur).
I am Tamil. And I was not raised like you.
@Vinod 13, I agree, grinding poverty is the strongest economic incentive.
Hey that Indian toilet cartoon and others here missed out on the left hand along with the water to wash the bottom! I hope all of you eating with your fingers are using your right hand and washing it before and after the meal:)
Vinod, here the incentive is economic too – its just that its to supress green movements lest we upset the corporate hierarchy that is in no mood to encourage less consumerism and higher production costs.
Here’s my prediction – this chap is conducting a yearlong experiment/stunt with his wife. Before the year is out, one of them will contract an infectious disease ( why ? stats. ). The money and medicine needed to cure them will completely make a mockery of their experiment, as in, it won’t be voodoo/herbs/non-impact cure, it will most definitely be a bunch of allopathic drugs administered by hi-tech NYC hospital staff, even one day’s worth of which will completely negate whatever creative non-impact sacrifices these chaps have made.
Firang goes to India and looks around and says, My, these people live such a simple life! Let me be one of them. I’ll eat native foods and drink water from the well and sleep on a cot outside. In a week, firang’s immune system trips up. He’s just not accustomed to the dust/germs/elements, having lived a westernized super-hygenic lifestyle all his life. Sick firang calls consulate, is rushed to super speciality Apollo hospital, and pay thru the nose to be re-Americanized. How many times have I not seen that movie ? This couple’s story plays out like the perfect sequel. They’re creating a mini-India right inside their fifth avenue apartment, what with home-made yogurt, worms composting garbage, fruit-scrap vinegar and no TP. One small mis-step is all it takes, and the germs will own your ass. The scary part is that this couple is not part of a far-off isolated commune, instead they are mingling with the rest of Manhattan on a day to day basis. If they contract some hard-to-cure infection, and God forbid pass it on, NYC will have thousands of really sick citizens and will swear off environmentalism for the rest of their lives. And that, like the shredded cabbage and home-made vinegar they’re eating, will leave a really bad taste in everybody’s mouth.
Who’s more at risk — the couple or their two year old daughter?
I’ve attempted being environmentally conscious and active in Uttar Pradesh India and it just does not work. Without having to go into details about what I did during my menstrual cycle (the locals just throw their pads, cloths, etc on the banks of the sacred Jamuna river, or in Her waters, which anyway wash up on the shore shortly thereafter) suffice it to say that it was a BIG BIG BIG deal trying to deal with just that one little aspect of life in a place that has no way to effectively deal with trash.
My own personal environmental struggle was enough to deal with, add to that trying to be somewhat of an activist there and get others involved and the result is an almost insane woman today.
I think the elders who grew up on buying milk, yogurt, etc in clay pots also think that the modern day plastic bags (called “polythins”) are somehow also biodegradable because you find them thrown around everywhere, just like you would small clay pots. It’s not rare to find a hog who is excreting a plastic bag from it’s behind in such areas. Even the cows eat polythins – poor things.
The Indians and non-Indians who are trying to bring about change in UP are facing alot of difficulties.
One such person donated a sapling to each “baba” in one holy place to plant outside their kutir and the municipality of the town ordered all the babas to return the saplings explaining that this was a conspiracy by foriegners to again eventually take over India again.
I finally gave up and started living easier, at first with guilt, but now guilt-free coz I don’t see anyone else really caring.
But they might have gotten sick anyway, experiment or not, so it doesn’t negate their low impact lives, because if they got sick and needed medical attention with a “normal” life, their impact would be much higher. And they are not advocating eschewing medical care, anyway. I don’t know why people feel the need to be so hyper-critical or anyone that tries to lead a morally consistent life, even as an experiment. Is it because you are secretly guilty about your impact on the world? I feel guilty about not being an environmentally “better” person, but I don’t hate people that are better at it than me. Especially in this case, where it is obviously an experiment–they are not advocating that everyone live this way.
Thanx for saying it so succinctly. I’m surprised at how many people are attacking them in general especially with so much vitriole. It doesn’t matter that it’s an experiment. I can’t imagine living the way they are for two weeks much less a year. More power to them for making it work and that too with a baby in the house. It’s not easy. Irrespective of whether it’s a stunt it takes commitment and a lot of adjustments on their part.
I lived in an American “ashram” for sometime in my youth where we did not use toilet paper and there were little lotas next to the toilet. The thing is that one is really supposed to take a full bath after going number two, because one is considered “contaminated” after passing poo. One is supposed to poo not in their clothing but in a gamcha/loongi that is reseverd only for that. After passing one is meant to fully cleanse oneself via shower (bucket bath in most of India). Then one can put on clean clothes and partake of temple activities for other home activities that require high cleanliness standards – like cooking. Lotas with modern sit down toilets DO NOT WORK – it gets REAL messy and gross.
Anyway, when I first started doing that, putting my hand you-know-where was totally repulsive to me. Thus I started wiping with toilet paper first, then IMMEDIATELY jumping in the shower to thoroughly cleanse myself as per ashram/temple standards.
When I first went to India I had alot of urinary tract infections and the doctor told me it was very common there because the women do not dry themselves after cleaning themselves with water after urinating. He told me to cleanse with water, then use toilet paper to dry so that the infections would stop.
The combination of toilet paper first then shower/bath after pooing is the most hygenic and clean (for hand as well as other areas). Urinating you have to rinse first then dry with toilet paper.
Just using toilet paper alone like is done in America is really not hygenic. Nor is using lota with western style sit down toilet. The highest level of hygeine can be attained by using toilet paper, water (full shower), and anti-bacterial soap.
“My FOB friends swear that TP is unhygienic compared to a lota” since when do only FOBS use lota, i have been in this country my whole life, and i still use lota, as does most of south asia, it isn’t some crazy concept…i am proud not to have an itchy stinky ass, with remnants of shit still hanging around all day…
I thought humanity had solved the poop problem. I hadn’t realized the issue was still operative.
But lota is also very unhygenic if you use only that.
The best is to wipe with toilet paper first (that way the hand never comes in direct contact with poo), and then just in the shower to thoroughly cleanse oneself with SOAP and water. Those removable shower heads are best coz you can angle them right up in there where they are most needed.
It’s probably due to how they are presenting themselves rather than what they are actually doing.
I, for example, crinkle just a little when I read a description of how noble and exciting it is to give up buying clothes and books and wine, and read that No Impact Man allowed his wife to buy two pairs of Chloe boots (which are priced somewhere between $500-1000 a pair, depending on the style) as an “inauguration present.”
It makes me want to say “don’t pat yourselves on the back for living without luxuries unavailable to tens of thousands of your fellow Americans and millions of people across the world.”
I was just going to address the concern that MoS talked about. I am fine with the part of using water and no TP after pooping, but females need to be dry down there after peeing becuase we also have other discharge. The TP use after urinating helps keep us dry. My lived for 30 yrs in India and had lots of problems with UTI’s while she was there, after we immigrated here and she used TP, she has no problems. I on the other hand get rashes with wetness (I know this WAY TMI but I trying to make a point) and it is not fun.
man, i knew this would devolve into a tp / water debate …
JOAT, i agree to a certain point … but i guess
1)the extreme measures they are taking (food from w/in a certain distance) 2)the book deal / experimental nature (which makes me think that this is just a temporary thing for them) 3)rules that aren’t rules (ie the wife went on a major shopping binge before since they can use stuff that they already own (which would answer the what if they got sick question unless it was something major), they can accept gifts, etc …
just makes me feel like its just a stunt w/ a payoff for them in the future … i just feel like people who make simple, life long changes (no paper/plastic plates & utensils) are doing something better for the environment, without all the hullaballoo of these people
I remember telling some East African friends about washing with water, assuming they did it too (my Indian friend and I were joking about it) and they were absolutely shocked. They use TP (and one of them was from rural Kenya) and had no idea that Indians washed. Likewise, I had no idea that the rest of the developing world used TP (except in Muslim countries).
If you’re obsessed with hygiene, maybe (which seems to happen to a lot of people when they visit or move to India). But anti-bacterial soap is probably excessive. Your poop is going to have bacteria in it whatever you do. Some people are just more prone to those bacteria making their way into your urethra and causing UTIs. Wiping may actually make that worse if you wipe in the wrong direction. Do whatever you need to to feel clean and avoid UTIs, but I don’t think there’s any scientific evidence that one way is better than another.
Sounds like the Chris Martin brand of environmentalism.
It’s a major health concern in India. Many poor and un-informed people think living with UTI is normal.
Also about the rash – especially in heat, wearing saris where legs are rubbing against one another alot – with or without underwear on, that was a problem for me as well. I switched to salwar-kameez and that helped.
Also, the water that one is cleansing oneself with in India is not clean. Lots of bacteria and stuff in that too. That’s why even after peeing one should use anti-bacterial soap or something.
@Tambram 28. We need to consider the fact that these people are conducting a carefully thought out experiment. I am not convinced that the anecdotal example you give applies in their case. On another note, I like Prof. Arthur Brooks’s take on this in their weblog:
http://noimpactman.typepad.com/blog/2007/03/giving_and_impa.html
: But they might have gotten sick anyway
Their experiment has exponentially increased the odds of contracting an ID because their immune system isn’t upto par.
:so it doesn’t negate their low impact lives
Oh, but it does. See, if you have saved $1000 in non-impact costs, and Medicare/Insurance is going to have to foot $1200 to cure your ID, then that’s a $200 negation right there. You would have been better off doing nothing. Currently, ppl who buy the Prius are making the same mistake. Over the lifetime of the car, the costs of owning & operating a Prius is actually more environmentally destructive than a disel VW, or a 5-speed manual Corolla. As of today. In the near future, Prius will win the battle ( hopefully ), but as of now, if you want to save the environment, a VW diesel is your best bet. Counter-intuitive but nevertheless true.
:I don’t know why people feel the need to be so hyper-critical or anyone that tries to lead a morally consistent life, even as an experiment.
I condemn not the experiment but the location of the experiment. They can join an isolated commune in Maine or construct a bio-pod in Montana or whatever’s hip these days. Then, if they’re totally screwed ( ie. contract some contagious incurable ID ), we can simply nuke their pod & write off the experimenters as collateral damage. But these folks are in the middle of Manhattan. You might run across them at the CVS or brush past them at Borders, and then who is liable for whatever illness you might contract ? Now scale that up by the population of NYC. The plaintiff has rights.
Anyway, in ashram/temple life one is ALWAYS taught to bathe fully after pooing and put on clean clothes (the really strict ones shampoo their hair every time too for top to bottom “purity”). Otherwise you are not “pure” to participate in ritual activities. I doubt though that the Indians who taught us that were using anti-bacterial soap, but I do. And it is very neccessary for one’s hands since one is touching a very dirty area and touching poo itself nonetheless! And it’s best to keep one’s fingernails super short.
An added advantage is that in the West I found such a high level of cleanliness is very much appreciated by adventuresome lovers, so a clean booty can work wonders for your love life!!!
why isn’t it up to par? (and no its not obvious to me)
@MOS 45
http://www.webmd.com/news/20051020/fda-panel-no-advantage-to-antibacterial-soap
I think regular soap will do fine.
so the problem with wet-naps is that you can’t really flush them down the toilet, and if you just pile them up in the garbage, they start to stink… especially if there isn’t a good civic waste desposal system. i didn’t like to throw them down my pit latrine either, because they won’t decompose.
i always just washed, no TP wipe, give a good shake afterwards, and never had any female problems. the big advantages of the wash-not-wipe method is when you have dysentary… third world TP can be very chafing when you’re using it 30 times a day. 😛
Not obvious to me either and I’m an MD. Seems like you could eat locally in New York State and get pretty much all the nutrition you need with a little creativity. Their immune systems should be just fine.
And the antibacterial soap thing is silly. All soap is antibacterial. I wash my hands with regular Softsoap when I get home from the hospital and it seems to work just fine. We do use Purel and antibacterial wash at work but I’d feel okay about using just regular soap too.
Why not?
The real prob with them is that they also “smear” like TP, but just not as much.
Again, the solution is to SHOWER after pooing.
For pee wet wipes are good though. And they are think enough to flush.