We aren’t all the same

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Some of you may consider it good news that the top three finalists in the the Geography Bee, hosted by the great Alex Trebek himself, were Indian American. I do not. Some of you may also think fondly on the fact that the last four contestants in last year’s Spelling Bee were also Indian American. I do not.

“Well Abhi,” you say. “Aren’t you at least happy that the top Intel Science Award ($50,000) went to an Indian American?”

No.

I am afraid. I am afraid that most Americans aren’t able to tell us apart anymore. We aren’t all “the same.” I come from a vastly different culture and tradition than those people. I am nothing like them and I am tired of all the “so-called intellectuals” that are all “bhai-bhai” and want to give us all a common label. They don’t care about us so why should we be friendly to them? Ever since Indian-American kids started winning these types of competitions I get strange looks on the subway when I am reading a book. I can hear their whispers and their suspicions. “I know what he is up to,” they think. “All those people are the same. They just sit and study vocabulary lists and almanacs. They just come to ‘our country’ to win our competitions.” Nobody sits next to me sometimes, even during rush hour, all because they think we are all the same. I’m sick of it. I can’t even take pictures at tourist attractions anymore. Park security always comes up to me and asks me if I am forming a database of important geographic sites. Last time a guard mentioned to me that his son had “lost to one of you guys in a preliminary round.”

The solution is clear to me but will take some time to implement. Through forums like this we need to do a better job of educating the public. They need to know that some of us can’t spell and instead rely on readers or co-bloggers to point out spelling errors in their blog posts. They need to know that some of us don’t know which river the Port of Rotterdam lies on. Most importantly they need to know that they having nothing to fear from the vast majority of us.

I don’t know if you guys are like me but every time I read about another “incident” in the news I think, “Great. Now they will think that we are all capable of this kind of thing.” Here was the latest:

A woman teacher in Bhubaneswar has been arrested for inflicting three children with burn injuries on finding mistakes in their homework, police said on Sunday…

On Friday evening, Kabita allegedly lost her temper after she found mistakes in the home work of the kids. She punished them with a hot iron, a police official said. [Link]

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p>Moderates in the community need to come forward and speak out against these types of heinous acts. We can no longer afford to remain quiet while a radical minority dictates our image. We should denounce this sort of thing immediately and work to educate the community by pointing out that a lot of us are only average in intelligence and will work to demand the same from our children.

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p>I just wanted to get a dialog started on all of this before next week. In fact, usually I am a little afraid to even leave the house during this period which I often refer to as “hell week.”

Thank you all for your attention. I look forward to a productive dialog.

187 thoughts on “We aren’t all the same”

  1. razib:

    no! i curse the white man for his gift of ‘civilization.’ i curse him for banishing the mystery and the wonderment from the world with his* linear and cold systematic thinking. what we’ve lost, we can never reclaim…. * i don’t have a grudge against white women 🙂 they have a properly ‘holistic’ way of looking at the world

    Well, there are always exceptions to everything, isn’t that right :)?

    if it weren’t for white people and their ideologies which introduce abrahamic concepts like logic, skepticism, empiricism, systematic thought and humanism as opposed to spirituality and dancing around fires worshipping mother earth i might still believe in god!

    People who came up with and introduced “abrahamic concepts” were not white, but Semites.

    But seriously, Razib, you’re joshing in all of your posts, right? Lately I’ve been noticing that many of your posts don’t sound like the comments you once used to write. I even had a fleeting moment of doubt that it’s not really you, but someone else who is writing comments under your handle.

    Are you feeling ok?

  2. I feel your pain. I can’t spell, do rapidfire mental arithmetic with more than 3 digits, or charm a snake to save my life. Instead I end up making new words, doodling, and chasing lizards.

    I think we should have a vote and come up with a new stereotype for South Asian Americans to aspire to. Then we have to convince everyone else that we have power X without actually doing anything, just using the power of blogs. Like, I dunno–All south asians are awesome ice dancers! South asians are the best roofers in the world! Nobody can trim their toenails faster than desis! Brown people make the best tortellini! Pakistani-Americans rock the catfish noodling world! If there’s a Bangladeshi-American in your hackeysack competition, watch out! Sri Lankan-Americans are the world’s newest cross stich champions! Indian-Americans grow the world’s biggest Avacados!

    Are you with me or are you with me?!

  4. Brooklyn:

    Wowzers, some of you actually care what white people think of you?

    As long as anyone provides the essentials of life — hot girls, grades/reviews, and money — I care. After high school, they started to wrinkle and look 50 — I cared less about the white opinion. After college, I didn’t get grades from them, instead getting reviews from Desi / Chinese uncles — I cared less about the white opinion. Now, I get money from them, but I’ve become too white to care about the white opinion.

  5. I even had a fleeting moment of doubt that it’s not really you, but someone else who is writing comments under your handle.

    CAD, my thoughts, exactly! Seems razib’s id has been commandeered by an impostor and he’s having fun at razib’s expense. Only that explains the recent posts which are strikingly discordant with razib’s earlier posts, both here and at gnxp.

  6. New desi stereotypes to promote:

    1. All male desis look like Hrithik Roshan and sound like Amitabh Bachchan.
    2. All female desis look like {insert latest Indian Miss World here}.
    3. Everyone is naturally good at bhangra.
    4. Everyone is superb at cricket and can spin a mean googly before they even learnt how to walk.
    5. All desis are doctors, rocket scientists, or wizards at software engineering who work in Silicon Valley or Wall Street and earn 6-figure salaries, even when they’re actually not.

    Ideally, we’d prefer there to be no stereotypes at all, but as Kumar mentioned, positive stereotypes are better than negative ones.

  8. I would like to see us (men) stereotyped as dark, sexy creatures burdened by our famed masculinity and romanticism.

    I will let the desi ladies decide on what they want to be stereotyped as (and if at all)!

  9. positive stereotypes are better than negative ones.

    Are they really? Doesn’t that depend on who’s defining “positive” and “negative”?

    Any kind of stereotype pigenholes people into particular preconceived notions of what we/they are, do, look like, etc. A model minority myth can be just as damaging as a…I don’t know, smelly minority myth.

    Stereotypes don’t exist in a vacuum– they’re nearly always propagated by the folks with power in a system (who also benefit from them); in our case, straight white rich men. So does it really help you if everyone assumes you’re a chemical engineer, when you might be a novelist? Does it really help you if everyone assumes your sister looks like Karisma, when she might look more like Kiran Bedi (who is, in my opinion, much hotter)?

    I doubt it.

  10. Are they really? Doesn’t that depend on who’s defining “positive” and “negative”?

    Good point, but it depends on what one’s priorities are. If it works in your favour, hell, why not ?

    If life throws you lemons, make lemonade 😉

  11. vivo

    My repartee was in good humor and he took it quite humorously. Perhaps you didn’t know the gift of blarney (which the irish purportedly possess) is supposed to be the gift of the gab (read: BS-ing).

    BTW you don’t need to look very far to see that the irish are indeed a nation of BS-ers (erm..I meant blarney-ers): Bill O’Reilly (BSer-in-chief), Chris Matthews et al come to mind. Having lived in Ireland for 1 year, I do know the Irish do have a tendency to let slip fast and loose…their entire IT industry is based on it ..so they say.

    Some stererotypes indeed ring true.

  12. New desi stereotypes to promote: 1. All male desis look like Hrithik Roshan and sound like Amitabh Bachchan.

    Hey Jai, Some Desis like me, who do look like Hrithik Roshan and sound like Amitabh Bachchan, dont wont our brand “watered down”. What you are proposing would be so unfair to us minorities (who look like HR and sound like AB), what about our rights to exist?? Why this attack on us??? Why ??

  13. RC,

    If you really do look like HR and sound like AB, we can use you as the archetypal role model of the Mighty South Asian Man and you can be the mascot for the American Desi Re-Branding Campaign (to be rolled out state-by-state and, eventually, globally as part of the Desi Transformation Methodology).

    Now all we have to do is think of a funky-sounding-but-meaningless new term for South Asians, and we’ll be on our way.

    “Desiccenture”, anyone ? 😉

  14. CAD, my thoughts, exactly! Seems razib’s id has been commandeered by an impostor and he’s having fun at razib’s expense. Only that explains the recent posts which are strikingly discordant with razib’s earlier posts, both here and at gnxp.

    dudes, being an unreflective emotive ass that regurgitates formula and shits on whitey can be mighty fun! i’ve done it before, but manish shamed me. every now and then i have to do it and people are right “right on!” as long as i don’t lay it on too thick 🙂 i like to have fun sometimes too with all the other kids….

  15. The next time an Arab asks me the price of some crap off the shelf, while I pop out to the Super-market to pick a sandwich for lunch, I’ll blame the semite/white sense of inherent superiority for the Arab assuming that I work at the supermarket as I’m brown and wear a tie…

  16. Abhi, it was a disappointing to hear you admit that your past was a satire. I wish it was in earnest. It’s about time desis were accepted as normal Americans by normal Americans

  17. Abhi, sorry I misspelled “post” and said “your past was a satire.” Nothing Freudian about that.

  19. Stereotypes don’t exist in a vacuum– they’re nearly always propagated by the folks with power in a system (who also benefit from them);

    You clearly haven’t travelled in India. Pick a state. People of a state habitually stereotype (behavior, physique etc.) folks from another state. You are mistaken if you think they are folks with power in a system. Ironically, in light of your white comment, folks of all states over there think the white woman will put out 😀 I think a person stereotypes while processing and storing data that they are unfamiliar with.

  20. Me, I think the New and UnImproved Razib-the-Atheist Hijacker is a SpawnLam, er, SpoorLam-wanna-be if not a new avatar of the Spoor himself.

    Admittedly, its difficult to comprehend WHY anyone would want to be a SpoorLam, but its pretty amazing how the Spoor has actually managed to insidiously infiltrate mutineer posts/references/paranoia 🙂

  21. Admittedly, its difficult to comprehend WHY anyone would want to be a SpoorLam, but its pretty amazing how the Spoor has actually managed to insidiously infiltrate mutineer posts/references/paranoia 🙂

    Lest I encourage SpoorLam, I actually think his/her comments are comical and creative. He/she pops up nowhere and everywhere on every forum, and ALWAYS has something Hindutvavadi-sh to say on EVERY topic. Gotta give ’em credit.

  22. Abhi, it was a disappointing to hear you admit that your past was a satire. I wish it was in earnest.

    Therein lies the rub. The fact that you wish it was in earnest only makes the need for my satire all the more evident. 🙂

  23. Ohm? Talk about anglicization..(Sorry, couldn’t resist!)

    Hey, we’re not all the same! I don’t spell it like you do, chill 😉

    btw, that Unitrans guy was black. I seem to be seeing a lot of white-bashing, so i just thought I’d put that there.

  24. Lest I encourage SpoorLam, I actually think his/her comments are comical and creative. He/she pops up nowhere and everywhere on every forum

    Yes, hard to believe but he kind of grows on you, huh, she admitted with some embarassment.

    Funny how I’ve assumed our friend on the Lam is a ‘he’ … no offence to the many wonderful SMers of the male persuasion, but I find it difficult to see a womyn writing those posts.

  25. Fink:

    Funny how I’ve assumed our friend on the Lam is a ‘he’ … no offence to the many wonderful SMers of the male persuasion, but I find it difficult to see a womyn writing those posts.

    You’d be suprised how many women can be capable of writing such comments 🙂 In the end, both males and females have the capacity to write nutty, off the wall comments.

  26. I think we should have a vote and come up with a new stereotype for South Asian Americans to aspire to.

    Bangladeshi Americans are the world’s fastest fish-bowl cleaners! Punjabi Americans spend the longest time in the potty! If you’ve got a banquent full of all-you-can-eat buffet, don’t let the Nepalese get near it! Keralite Americans use up toilet paper the fastest! If you’re competing agaist a Sindhi American in a Pogo Ball race, watch out! Indian Americans grow the biggest nuts in America! Pakistani Americans are the most dexterous when they clean their ears with Q-Tips!

  28. You’d be suprised how many women can be capable of writing such comments 🙂 In the end, both males and females have the capacity to write nutty, off the wall comments.

    🙂 Its not so much the nutty off the wallness, as much as something about the tone and general relentlessness.

    And, she said offering this last up as Conclusive Evidence, our olfactorily obsessed Spoor has failed to show up at the Beautilicious Conference being held next door…

  29. Fink:

    Hey, why not ask SpoorLam him/herself?!

    SpoorLam:

    Are you male or female?

    Neha:

    And us Gujus, we’re just cheapass all over the globe 🙂

    Gujarati American females are the hottest chicks in America! Gujarati American females are miniature Miss Worlds and Miss Universes, but minus the dizzyness! Gujurati Americans are the most talented frisbee players! Gujurati Americans are the shrewdest nutcrackers! Sindhi Americans put salt in their coffee and tea!

  30. Gujurati Americans are the shrewdest nutcrackers!

    That statement can be interpreted in a number of different ways and I suspect they all may well be true…..

  31. Apologies, I thought she was referring specifically to female Gujarati Americans. Which probably makes that statement doubly-true (in several dubious ways)……

  32. Tamil Americans make the best prune juice! Assamese Americans have the most hair coming out of their ears! Maharashtran Americans drop the biggest poo-bombs!

  33. CAD is razib and SpoorLam and in real life she is Ann Coulter. I am also CAD…which explains why she refuses do debate w/ me.

    Workers of the World, UNITE—CAD

  35. Manju:

    CAD is razib and SpoorLam and in real life she is Ann Coulter. I am also CAD…which explains why she refuses do debate w/ me. Workers of the World, UNITE—CAD

    Manju is SpoorLam, of which the handle allows Manju to show her true colors, opinions and idiocracy, and in real life she is Bobby Jindal. I am also Manju…which explains why when I attempt to convince people with my simplistic, narrowminded comments, I fail, since I’m not as superficial, disingenuous, and ignorant as she is.

    Now that I have responded in the same spirit as your unnecessary comment ,and the above notwithstanding: Manju, don’t be immature and take uncalled for swipes. Perhaps you couldn’t think of anything relevant to write about the topics at hand.

  36. CAD is razib and SpoorLam and in real life she is Ann Coulter. I am also CAD…which explains why she refuses do debate w/ me.

    Whaaa??? Now that is being a cad! And I remember debates with both of you participating during the Palestinian-Israeli discussion last week, so again, whaaaa?

  37. Ann:

    Now that I have responded in the same spirit as your unnecessary comment ,and the above notwithstanding: Manju, don’t be immature and take uncalled for swipes. Perhaps you couldn’t think of anything relevant to write about the topics at hand.

    Seriously, I wasn’t trying to take a swipe at you, maybe a gentle prod. You had a better sense of humour when you dated Dinish D’Souza.

  38. Bobby Jindal

    Seriously, I wasn’t trying to take a swipe at you, maybe a gentle prod. You had a better sense of humour when you dated Dinish D’Souza.

    Last comment to you because I refuse to take the bait from someone has ridiculous and pathetic as you. You had a better sense of humour when you dated Senator McCarthy and later hooked up with George Bush Jr.

    Don’t turn this thread into a “personal, non-issue-focused flame” that could be deleted.

  39. Ms. Fink:

    I remember debates with both of you participating during the Palestinian-Israeli discussion last week, so again, whaaaa?

    CAD and I have a history which goes back to her declaring I am beneath debate because I label people and I am a racist, among other sins.

    So I became SpoorLam to seduce her into debate.

  40. Last comment to you because I refuse to take the bait from someone has ridiculous and pathetic as you. You had a better sense of humour when you dated Senator McCarthy and later hooked up with George Bush Jr. Don’t turn this thread into a “personal, non-issue-focused flame” that could be deleted

    Actually, Ann Coulter really did date Dinish D’Souza. Bobby Jindal didn’t date W, as far as I know. That’s why I wrote it, nothing personal.

  42. CAD and I have a history which goes back to her declaring I am beneath debate because I label people and I am a racist, among other sins.

    Then you should have simply said this rather than making irrelvant remarks. Furthermore, why are you bringing this up on this thread, where you and I haven’t engaged in any debate?

    Actually, Ann Coulter really did date Dinish D’Souza. Bobby Jindal didn’t date W, as far as I know. That’s why I wrote it, nothing personal.

    Exactly. As far as you know. How do you know that Bobby Jindal hasn’t been Dubya’s personal bitch*? Anything is possible.

    *ATTN: Bobby Jindal: Just kidding, yaar. I’m not out to libel and defame your reputation and name by spreading rumors that you Dubya have been having an ongoing relationship– regardless of whether it’s true or not. So don’t take my comment personally. Actually, I must shamefully admit something: I have a secret crush on you… you’re so intelligent, suave, and a yummy shade of brown….YEOUCH!!

  43. Ann:

    Then you should have simply said this rather than making irrelvant remarks. Furthermore, why are you bringing this up on this thread, where you and I haven’t engaged in any debate?

    I was responding to all your posts wondering about the true identity of Razib and SpoorLam, who are, as I revealed, really you. But you are me as I am you as is obvious b/c we never debate unless we are debating why we never debate.

    Pogo was never meant his quote to be so literal: “we have met the enemy and it is us”

    –Your old flame, Dinesh D’Souza

  44. Dearest Bobby Jindal,

    Actually, I must shamefully admit something: I have a secret crush on you… you’re so intelligent, suave, and a yummy shade of brown….YEOUCH!!

    Bobby, I hope you’re reading this. I really do have a crush on you. I dream about you all the time. Your campaign speeches got me oh so hot and bothered. And I really admire you, you are the epitome of the model minority.

    Listen, we can make this happen. Why don’t you hire me as your personal assistant and secretary? This way, you’ll be mixing business with pleasure, and your wife won’t suspect a thing. She’ll think you’re busy working (it). I’ll wear a blue dress everyday. And if you can come to work wearing tight briefs with the Indian flag printed on it underneath your 3 piece suit, that’d be great….

    No, wait. In your case, it would be the American flag. So tight briefs with the Star Spangled Banner print. Looking forward to enjoying the 4th of July fireworks with you.

  46. Evil Abhi:

    Okay, I tried to be nice but now I will just ban.

    Ban who, me or Manju? My last response to her was #92, and I intended that comment to be the last one addressed to her.

    Comment #94 is an extension of comment #92, where I am speaking to the REAL Bobby Jindal:

    *ATTN: Bobby Jindal: Just kidding, yaar. I’m not out to libel and defame your reputation and name by spreading rumors that you Dubya have been having an ongoing relationship– regardless of whether it’s true or not.

    See?

  47. Ban who, me or Manju?

    But if he bans you, he bans me, since you are me. get it?

    Comment #94 is an extension of comment #92, where I am speaking to the REAL Bobby Jindal:

    ohhhhh! i’m so disappointed. I love sex, or in this case, masturbation.

  48. And us Gujus, we’re just cheapass all over the globe 🙂

    Well, it depends. Who are we talking about here? Patels or Shahs (Vaniyas)?

    Seriously, I’m a high roller. I prefer to wear my Dr.Scholls purchased from Walmart when I gamble at the Boardwalk in Vegas. $3 Blackjack and penny slots are the shit. So are the free drinks.

  49. Without naming any names, seeing that this thread has been jacked by a person who has resorted to “personal, non-issue-focused flames” (cough-Manju), I would like to reel this thread back to the original topic, which discusses Indian Americans and the model minority myth.

    So–

    My two cents are: We are not all the same.

    What do you all think?

  50. So are the free drinks.

    Okay? That is what I am saying. It’s all about the free drinks. But not only. Free everything. For example, instead of shelling out the money from my own pocket to buy sugar, I simply swipe a handful of sugar packets in every cafe that I enter. Or, I collect the small peanut packets and moist hand-towelettes from every plane ride. Whenever I am on vacation and stay at hotels, I repeatedly violate the rule “Do Not remove the towels, please”. And the free corporate T-Shirts that are handed out are the only source of my wardrobe. My motto: if you have to spend money out of your own pocket, then it’s not worth it!