Good News: Got Another One In Pakistan
Bad News: Why are so many of them in Pakistan?
A top al-Qaida leader whose links stretch from Osama bin Laden’s training camps to extremist networks in Europe has been captured in Pakistan, a U.S. law enforcement official confirms for the first time.Pakistani officials also told The Associated Press that Mustafa Setmarian Nasar, a dual Syrian-Spanish national with a $5 million U.S. bounty on his head, had been flown out of the country to an unspecified location.
Nasar was captured in a November sting in the southwestern Pakistani city of Quetta that left one person dead,
…It would not be the first time Pakistan _ a key U.S. ally in the war against terrorism _ has detained al-Qaida terrorists and turned them over to the Americans.
Pakistan says it has captured more than 750 al-Qaida suspects since the Sept. 11 attacks and has handed most of them to the United States.
Now adjusting for reportage (e.g. folks captured elsewhere are less likely to get the press conference treatment than Pakistani’s seems to give), it says a lot about the state of governance in Pakistan that the Northwest Frontier is somehow a more hospitable place for these folks than… say… Afghanistan.
In case you do not remember, Godhra was the place which witnessed miraculous phenomenan of spontaneous combustion of around 60 plus Hindus, however I am sure that there was some justification for it.
Since the topic of Godhra and the post Godhra pogrom has come up, here is somethingI have often wondered about:
Modi was the CM when this happened, and he has been the CM since then. For a so-called defender of Hindu rights and one enjoys the reputation of being an amazingly able administrator [a la Sardar Patel], isn’t it amazing that his administration has not been able to locate and prosecute the people responsible for the Sabarmati carnage? Modi, his govt and his supporters are so quick to punch holes in what the others have found out, they were also very quick to take out the gaurav yatra for those who died in that fire because it got them political points, but when it comes to actually bringing the culprits to justice, they are strangely ineffective, and rather quiet about the fact that justice has been denied for so long.
RCK (51#)
Why should there be any cultprits ??
It was a miracle remember !! Hindus undergo spontaneous combustion. Really all the time.
Gaurav, you’re putting me out of work here, man! How am I going to earn my brass?
Why should there be any cultprits ??
It was a miracle remember !! Hindus undergo spontaneous combustion. Really all the time.
g
Not that I am saying you are wrong – after all I have seen Hindus combust spontaneously during the Mandal agitation – but the state govt was working under the assumption that there were culprits. They rounded up a lot of people from the Muslim slums near the railway tracks. Then, when the lack of evidence led to their release, they waited a few months and arrested them again. Besides, Modi would hardly be spouting Newtonian laws if he thought that the tragedy was caused by a divine agency, or at the very least, he would be directing his henchmen against places of worship…
It was a miracle remember !! Hindus undergo spontaneous combustion. Really all the time.
‘Tis all Sati’s fault! She started the trend!
Whoa. RCK, I’m with you on your arguments, but I find your jokes to be beyond tasteless.
Whoa. RCK, I’m with you on your arguments, but I find your jokes to be beyond tasteless.
Could you explain what you find so tasteless about the joke? It was hardly a tragedy – she was reborn as Parvati, to a father she could be proud of [a v, imp point as her anger with her Dad was the reason she combusted spontaneously] and was reunited with her husband.
Or is it just that you are not familiar with Hindu mythology?
RCK (54# & 55#)
I agree with you.
Conversation with you across multiple threads has been very informative.
1) India doesn’t progress because of Hinduism.
2) If Hindus are burned they are to be blamed. Also invocation of Suttee is the substitues for either argument or even sarcasm.
Since this site is moderated (with secular leaning )I can not give you personal compliments.
MV (56#)
Since you find his jokes tasteless, let me give you this information
1) U. C. Banerjee was a political appointee by Laloo Yadav.
2) His appointment was criticized by official commission
3) He coincided release of his report with Bihar election
4) He ignored evidence given by organizations such as RDSO.
5) His probe was very superficial, and with almost no effort to obtain evidence from eye witnesses
6) Even secular media was not very thrilled with his conduct
Or perhaps you are a devout Shiv/Shakti bhakt and are offended by jokes about divinity? If this is the reason, then I do apologise for offending your feelings, but I will still stand by my comment – she did start it.
1) India doesn’t progress because of Hinduism.
Tell me where I said that, or retract your statement with an apology.
2) If Hindus are burned they are to be blamed.
See above.
Also invocation of Suttee is the substitues for either argument or even sarcasm.
Suttee is not the same as Sati, especially when the second statement makes it clear that I am talking about a person rather than a practice. If you are not familiar with your own mythology, it is hardly my fault.
Gaurav, can you support those claims, and please tell me what the RDSO is?
Oh MAN. If ONLY they knew back in the day that people would start taking these stories literally. she did start it. ? Haha. Excuse me while I go lop off my own head. Today’s Chinnamasta day. Tomorrow I’ll go on a murdering rampage, and start licking blood off of the ground shall I? And make myself a garland of human skulls because I want to be oh so Hindu and emulate goddesses, since apparantly we’ve lost all perspective between what’s human and what are myths about divinities.
Next week I’ll cover the Vaisnav faves and turn into a leaping monkey-god.
Oh MAN. If ONLY they knew back in the day that people would start taking these stories literally. she did start it. ? Haha. Excuse me while I go lop off my own head. Today’s Chinnamasta day. Tomorrow I’ll go on a murdering rampage, and start licking blood off of the ground shall I? And make myself a garland of human skulls because I want to be oh so Hindu and emulate goddesses, since apparantly we’ve lost all perspective between what’s human and what are myths about divinities.
We certainly have lost all our perspective when we don’t get the notion of jokes. MV got that much, hence my reply. Since you clearly didn’t, lemme say it nice and slow – it…was…a…joke…and…in…the…realms…of…hindu…mythology…Sati…did…start…the…combustion…bit.
Also, the comment was in response to another joke made by Gaurav, the one about Hindus combusting spontaneously.
If you haven’t lopped your head of yet, reading this comment may help you gain some perspective.
RCK, were you referring to something other than self-immolation in #54?
Okay the word “suttee” just needs to be tossed unless you are quoting something written by a 19th century Orientalist.
Sati, RCK (sigh) is not a “person”. She’s a GODDESS. Or at the very least, a fantastical mythological figure. Therefore, she does things that in the human world are irrational, magical and possibly unreasonable. We don’t expect our deities to do boring human things like driving or e-banking, so let’s not try and equate ourselves with combusting goddesses either.
Folks this is interesting.. I never knew about these things. What is “chinna masta” day??
MV (61#)
That will cost you some decent bucks.
Look, getting the evidence together will require google seach and there it will have to wait another day. (As I do not possess photographic memory) I think if look you in online archives of Indian newspaper you will find even “secular” journalists criticised appointment and functioning of banerjee commission.
Meanwhile this is RDSO.
Regards
Oh RCK I got it was a “joke”. But considering the invocation of deified ideals get invoked to justify all kinds of right-wing agendas (Ramrajya, anyone?) that joke just isn’t so funny anymore.
I’m making up the part about it being a “day” 🙂 Chinnamasta is a self-decapitating goddess. She’s a Mahavidya.
woah typos in #68. i really seem to like the word “invoke”
To stop Modi from coming to the US, we need to get the Christian organizations on board again. The Christian organizations were also troubled by the treatment of Christians in Gujarat and these organizations were instrumental in making the State Dept reject ModiÂ’s visa. Can someone post some info here on the mistreatment of Christians in Gujarat.
Ok, I found this info about “chinnamasta”..
..In Hinduism, Chinnamasta (also called Chinnamastaka, is one of the mahavidyas, and an aspect of Devi. The literal meaning of the word Chinnamasta is one with a severed head…
Sounds cool.. :-))
I know this is going to raise your heckles, but denial of his visa was nothing but posturing to appease certain lobbying group.
Unfortunately you are correct in your analysis. One reason I am a little worried about his visa not being denied again is that the State Department in their infinite wisdom actually believed that rejecting ModiÂ’s visa would somehow placate the Muslim masses in the troubled Middle East. I guess the State Department believes more in the concept of ‘UmmahÂ’ than the Muslims 😉 Of course no one really gives a rats ass about Indian Muslims in the Arab world. The State DepartmentÂ’s decision almost got no coverage in the Arab media and I am sure that the State Department took notice of the fact that the Arab media pretty much ignored the denial of the visa. Predictably the only country where it got any coverage was in Pakistan.
MV,
I was refering to a tale from the Shiv Puran – the story about Shiva’s first wife who summoned yogic fire to burn herself when her father’s insulting comments about her husband annoyed her beyond all bounds. Wiki has the story here.
I don’t think the usage of a derogatory term by the members of the group it is used against is a valid comparison… In the African-American community, people sometimes refer to their friends etc using the infamous “N” word. I doubt that privilege is extended to anyone who is not African-American. Or maybe I am wrong and perhaps you have tried that…
Sati, RCK (sigh) is not a “person”. She’s a GODDESS. Or at the very least, a fantastical mythological figure.
Sigh.
Yes, Brownfrown, I do believe I am aware of that. Should have said ‘being’ instead of ‘person’. But, your need for nitpicking apart, surely the distinction between a being and a practice is clear enough when the pronoun ‘She’ is used?
so let’s not try and equate ourselves with combusting goddesses either.
Eh? If this is about the use of the word ‘person’, then I’ll drop it here. If this is about anything else, then you’ll have to point me to the sentence where I made any such equation.
Oh RCK I got it was a “joke”.
Which, of course, is the reason your initial comment [#62] included lines like:
“Oh MAN. If ONLY they knew back in the day that people would start taking these stories literally”
and
“since apparantly we’ve lost all perspective between what’s human and what are myths about divinities.”
Yep, that makes perfect sense. Everytime I find anyone making jokes about divinities, I too immediately accuse them of taking those myths literally…. [/sarcasm]
Tried what?
Okay fine. The point being, quibbling over semantics when someone’s politics are clear is just so much smoke and mirrors. And the term “Paki” while perhaps possibly contentious does not have quite the same import as the “N word” – see how I can’t type it? There’s something pretty innocuous about a bunch of friendly brown people sitting around a room, some of whom are of Pakistani descent, using the word. So while I get that it isn’t always clear-cut and probably not appropriate if you are using it in a consciously derogatory way, it can be a wry but harmless term too. Let’s not nitpick on things that really have nothing to do with the issue at hand. Delhite was certainly not being “demonizing”.
dude, the problem isn’t jokes about divinities. mock them all you want. the problem is when the punchline becomes real people actually doing these things. in this case, it’s acutal women burning themselves to alive. oh haha, what a knee-slapper!
*that’s “alive” not “to alive”. sigh.
the problem is when the punchline becomes real people actually doing these things. in this case, it’s acutal women burning themselves to alive. oh haha, what a knee-slapper!
Maybe because the women involved are “VHP volunteers”, pun could be intended..
the problem is when the punchline becomes real people actually doing these things. in this case, it’s acutal women burning themselves alive. oh haha, what a knee-slapper!
Oh my! My words became real people and burnt themselves alive?!?!
Seriously though, finding a joke tasteless is not the same as assuming people are taking myths literally. Since your objections have come down to the former, I’ll drop it here. I do not subscribe to this kind of excessive political correctness but have no problems with others doing so. Though, personally, I’d have thought that the dismissal of the Godhra incident as a case of spontaneous combustion of Hindus would seem more offensive…
The NASABA conference is a good place to start. One way of contacting desi lawyers, would be to start with the Bar associations. Almost all Bar associations in Ohio have the Cleveland or Columbus or Cinicinnati Bar Directories. The Bar Directories usually have names of all the members so you could look for Indian names. Now lawyers like me who have Muslim/Arabic names and who donÂ’t practice law in the state of Ohio would probably not be traceable but it should help with the overtly Hindi sounding names.
And the term “Paki” while perhaps possibly contentious does not have quite the same import as the “N word”
Go to England. Maybe it’s not the same (I honesty don’t know), but it’s a lot worse in the UK than in the U.S.
RCK (#81):
Your point is well taken, and I did consider this. The reason I jumped on your comments was that I wasn’t expecting something like that from you, given the stuff you normally write and had written in this thread until that point. Sorry, should have been consistent.
MV (84#)
My invocation of spontaneous combustion was not a jokeit was heavy duty sarcasm.
I have seen this disconcenrting tendency by people with certain ideological bent to brush off Godhra. As a Hindu I will be damnded if I am going to let it be brushed off.
Regards
Gaurav,
I just re-read all of our posts (it’s been a few days), and yes, I can see that your invocation of spontaneous combustion was coated with a heavy dose of sarcasm and was not intended as humor.
however:
No one is brushing off Godhra. What happened that day was indeed horrendous, and you cannot know the reaction that I, as a human being, had upon opening the newspaper that day.
As a Hindu, you can do what you will. But the Banerjee Commission findings suggest that those 59 people did not die that day because they were Hindu. There is no doubt that in the following weeks and months, thousands of people died because they were Muslim.
And people in positions of power in Gujarat – from the police to the state government – HAVE brushed off those thousands of deaths.
MV (86#)
I did not mean you, I meant many others. As you are sure about your reaction, I am also sure about the media reaction in the immediate aftermath of Godhra (and before riots) and it was overwhelming denial. All sorts of conspiracy theories (the most popular and sick one was that karsevaks had abducted a Muslims girl and she was in the train)
I have said that Narendra Modi is an unethical demogogue and I stand by it, however it is a two way street.
Further Justice Banerjee report is a hogwash. Trust me it is not very easy to accidently burn the train. The official commission is Nanavati commission, let us wait for its result.
From Wikipidia
” ….Two years after the incident Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav appointed Justice Banerjee to investigate the cause of fire. On the eve of election in Railway Minister’s Native State Bihar, Justice Banerjee submitted an interim report concluding that the fire and attack are two separate events. It claimed, very controversially, that the fire was likely started from within the train, and not by a mob gathered outside the train [1]. This interim report and Bin Laden Clones were used in Bihar Election to attract Muslim votes. [2] [3]. The Interim Report’s credibilty is in serious doubt due to timing of it’s release and subsequent use in election campaigning [4] [5]….”
Further the casuality as quoted by “secular” UPA government for post Godhara Riots was
“… According to an Indian Central Government report released in 2005, 254 Hindus and 790 Muslims were killed with an estimated 223 deemed missing… “
So Hindus were also killed however no one ever bothers to mention it.
Lastly Hindu Muslim tension in India is too complicated an issue to be made into ideological football match and yet that’s what happens.
Regards
I don’t think we’re going to get much farther than this; the last word is yours.
Just go read the Human Rights Watch report on this incident (the link wasn’t working so I send you to a Google Search on it).
89:
The links on that search deal with the dereliction of duty by the Gujarat administration in the post-Godhra riots and not with the Godhra incident itself. It has been more than 4 years since that coach caught fire, and no one is any closer to knowing what actually happened that morning. Even if we dismiss the Justice Bannerjee report, the mystery is no closer to being solved. The Forensic Science Laboratory report, the depositions before the Nanavati-Shah Commission [appointed by Modi], the police chargesheet – they all give different accounts. Evidence was not collected properly, and the political compulsions seem to have been considered more important than the investigative procedure.
You can take a look here and here to see just messily the whole situation was handled.