There’s nothing more uncomfortable than accepting an invitation to a dinner party only to discover over the salad course that your host’s girlfriend is a virulent racist. Just ask Sir Ben Kingsley.
Gawker.com published this blind item a few days ago:
“Ben Kingsley told a story on The View this morning about an unpleasant dinner he had at the home of a Hollywood actor: ‘There are times when I wish I could have said or done something differently. [For example] The last time I was here, there was an old Hollywood actor who invited me back to his home. He was with his aging German girlfriend. I was instantly nervous around her. During the meal, she said “Are you Jewish?” And I said, “No as a matter of fact, I’m half Indian and half English.” And she said “Oh my god, that’s even worse.” [audience gasps] So, I did not drop my knife and fork and say “F* you.” I stayed in a state of rage throughout the dinner. Why? Because everything happens for a reason. And now here I am with you and [pointing at the camera] if you’re still around, you racist old witch…[gesturing to The View panel] these girls have now heard it, and you know who you are! You know who you are!’
Nearly everyone reading this can relate to this story at least a little. I certainly know what it is like to silently sit in a state of rage after hearing a racist remark at a party, wishing I had either a) called the person out, b) immediately gone home, or c) both. I have to admit that I’m a bit jealous that Kingsley got to verbally tear this woman to shreds on national television. Who hasn’t imagined doing that?
Watch the video below for the full effect of Kingsley’s tale (complete with faux German accent.) The look on his face as he shouts “You know who you are!” is priceless.
How have mutineers handled situations like this? What would you have done differently if given a do-over? And any guesses as to who hosted this ill-fated dinner party? (Most of the Gawker commenters think it’s this Hollywood legend, which, if true, would make me more than a little sad.)
I don’t understand the American obsession with anti-racism as the highest goal (although I understand the American history about slavery and Jim Crow)–aren’t there a lot of problems that are at least comparable–poverty, disease and pollution, lack of political freedom, lack of educational opportunity, etc.? Anyway, where I live racism is endemic, but not at the top of the list of problems most people would like addressed. Cleaner air and water would come well before it, for example. Just my 2 cents.
Damn it.
“This video contains content from ABC Soapnet, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds”.
That’s the most racist comment i have come across in a few months. And i am boiling with anger. What has India done to deserve this?
Wow, that was something to watch. So odd—just yesterday I learned that Merle Oberon was half-South Asian. According to IMDB, to hide her heritage, she would pretend to visitors that her mother was the maid! (IMDB identifies her as half-Indian and says her mother came from Sri Lanka.)
The last time something like this happened to me in person, I was actually so stunned I was unable to speak. The person who made the comment was an elderly South Asian person. A kind friend (also South Asian) suggested that I leave the room, and then proceeded to disabuse the speaker of the notion that that comment was okay. Thanks, friend. You know who you are, and I’m saying that with the exact opposite of the expression on Ben Kingsley’s face.
ChineseDesi: Speaking out against racism consumes resources that could otherwise be used to reduce poverty and clean the environment? Seems like a false choice
louiecypher, didn’t mean to imply that one can’t ideally do both. Just that there might be tradeoffs, and that the race issue seems to loom large for americans, as opposed to here, where racism is the order of the day, so to speak, and not really an issue to be changed. not sure who’s right, just musing. but, who will march for the filipina maids?
one point about BK that i find confusing is that he is part-jewish according to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kingsley
his mother’s father was likely of eastern european jewish background (she was born out of wedlock, so there is some muddle here). not that that impacts the main thrust of the story.
my own personal experience is that europeans are a lot less sensitized in some ways that americans are sensitized. also, people can “pass” experience/observe racially insensitive talk all the time, because that sort of stuff has moved “indoors” so to speak among perceived co-ethnics. the emphasis on perceived. finally, there’s a lot of interpersonal variation in strength of reaction and nature of perception.
Isn’t that like being a little bit pregnant? He is, or he isn’t.
“not sure who’s right”
Ehhhhh we know YOU’RE WRONG ChineseTroll
You’re really open to disparate views from the desi diaspora, Sunil. /sarc off
ChineseDesi == ‘rob’. Interesting how he changes location every time. First Europe, now China…
Also, this is not a ‘European’ thing. (I’m looking at you Razib.) Believe me.
metal mickey–huh? i’ve only been reading sepia mutiny for a week, and commenting for less time. why are you putting my perspective into a box?
i had an entrepreneur come into my office the other day. he was a very distinguished 80yr old man (very unusul in this world) dressed in spectacular suit (also unusual as biz-cas is customary now) who made his money as an attorney at the white shoe law firm. anyway his presentation was peppered with racial anecdotes, like his deep admiration for one of his partners who is the most renowned person in his scientific field and who happened to be black, which he highlighted somewhat repeatedly. later on he told us some war stories of earlier financings he had done, such as the time he approached Westinghouse but they wouldn’t let a Jew in in the door. that’s when i realized he was Jewish, not wasp, and thought that, and his age, explained his preoccupation.
then he told a killer anecdote about trying to extract money from a wealthy Jewish equivalent to a brown sahib, i guess. the man said, “i can’t finance you because my wife’s an anti-semite.” to which he replied, “was that before or after she married you.”
i am a Japanese sweetie
The German old bitch must have a poweful actor boyfriend if Ben is still unwilling to mention her name on tv. I have had some vaguely similar experiences like that but not at the dinner table. And each time, I proceeded to give back more than I got.
I’ve had some interesting experience with race issues. I’m really mixed. My mother’s side is Irish, Chinese and Amerindian. My father’s side is basically black and white (not too sure of the specifics). Some people have no idea what I am. The only black features I have in me is curly hair. It’s not completely curly though, the back of my head and behind my ears are pretty straight. I have a straight nose and I have almost caucasian complexion.
The other day, my friend who i’ve known for a bout 6 or 7 years asked me if I had any black in me. I wasn’t sure if he was serious, but he was.
I was at my girlfriend’s aunt’s house a couple years back cooking some roti (they’re guyanese-indian. Her father’s side is Hindu and her mother’s side is Muslim) and her uncle came over and saw me, he said nothing to me. A couple days later my gf said that he said I look like any other black guy.
Another time, when she was visiting her family in guyana, her racist uncle saw a photo of us on her laptop and asked who I was and if I was Pakistani.
One of my co-workers thought I was Turkish when we first met.
Some people think I’m hispanic, some people think my mother is hispanic or filipino.
I am not surprised that Sir Kingsley (I hear he insists being called that; and therein lies a tangential tale) heard what he did from a German woman. In Europe racist statements are more open and there is less racial sensitivity because the population until recent times has been more racially homogeneous, particularly in mainland Europe. There is more overt racism in Europe because the racial “other” is not really phsyically visible. It is not accidental that the more racial sensitive parts of Europe are the UK, France, and Germany. On the other hand, the history of the United States (and the Americas generally; Latin America presents a fascinating case study of continued segregation and European minorities) is bound up with racist hierarchies, what with all the early Europeans doing what they did to the native population, the African slaves, and so on. So the racial “other” has not been exterminated but is constantly present, and this physical proximity is mixed with a sense of racial threat, and guilt, and a demographic balance that is volatile — its not clear now in some parts of the United States that the European cultural norms are dominant, such as in the Southwest or even some parts of the Southeast. Hence there is a patina of correctness around racial statements and the expression of racist feelings in general. People are constantly dancing around the racial theme, but tentatively, afraid of getting burnt, but once in while getting singed when they say what they think. Ben and his friends on the TV show know that. For me, the issue is more mundane and pervasive. Why is “John” easier for people to say right the first time than “Janardhan”? Why is “pizza” more an American food than “panipuri”?
That has been my experience also. And I’ve only noticed it recently as I’ve been hanging around a lot more Europeans lately.
And having just made a broad generalization about a large group of people from very little evidence 😉 , here’s what I do when other people make broad generalizations about groups of people — I try to give them counterexamples or ask them for evidence. And my line is that even if it’s possible to show, statistically, that certain ethnic groups act in certain ways, that information is really useless because in one-to-one personal interactions there are likely a large number of people from that ethnic group that don’t conform to the stereotype. I try to use reason as opposed to saying something like “I’m offended”, because I don’t want people to not say something just because they think it’s socially unacceptable. I’d rather not have statements like this simply be driven underground or behind closed doors.
not to mention indians
I am little sceptical of BK. I distinctly remember him completing ducking the question of race on some NPR interview. Kept harping about his Englishness when the interviewer was obviously trying to enagage int eh question of ethnicity. More interesting bit no, BK had to push a moview. No controversy… And, jsut a few minutes ago, ON CNN he firmly defended the choice of actors on POP. I think he spoke out in the video only beacuse it was so blatant. But thats not enuf – its those half-sugeestive racist comments that occur more often and need to be called out.
Jeez – if a person as famous as Sir BK has to clear up the question of his mixed heritage at this stage in his career, its pathetic. Good North Indian family?? Huh? Like if they were a Bad NIF he’d disown his Indian heritage? Either he hoping for some acceptance from India (hmmmm B’wood is the next big thing and he’s thinking crossover) or he wants to corner the vague ethinicity roles in H’wood.Then all those blimkered directors can tell their critics – ‘Look we picked BK for the role. He’s HALF indian …Why are you complaining?
I’m not sure why, but the video seems like such an act….and really riled me…
maybe the star trek gig affected him
maybe he’s trying to secure the lead role in Gandhi II: the Wrath of Khan
Have you all seen BK’s IMDB page? The man cornered the vague ethnic role market decades ago.
–Pravin
Or perhaps Kingsley was just keeping it classy 😉
Just shows you the hidden racism of some people, but a German to openly show nafrat to Jews, then say that about him being both Indian and English!! Nough Said!
I was in Spain on a study abroad program and during a “dorm” dinner, one of the other students repeated the rather racist conclusion of a recent book. I don’t remember the name of the book but the conclusion was that quickly reproducing Hispanics were better for the U.s. because they were Catholic and at least then, we wouldn’t be outnumbered by Muslims. I don’t even remember the rest of it but there was the clear implication that Muslims were terrorists. I didn’t go with the you’re-a-flaming-bigot route but did mention that one of my best friends is Muslim and that he was one of nicest people I had ever met. She said he was probably an exception. I am not making this up. It was shocking. This woman was a law student, well-read, and very intelligent. She spoke Spanish, she had been exposed to international education and seriously, we were in Spain. Where Muslims and Christians have lived together for hundreds of years. Other people called her out at the table as well but she singled me out for the rest of the trip. For the remainder of the trip, she was repeatedly nasty to me and looked for any opportunity to be rude. Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised that racists can also be bullying mean girls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Kingsley
Video was blocked but judgeing by this, he is part Indian
People like Ben Kingsley who white-wash their heritage — like Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal — are much more insidious racists because they not only internalize the racism, they perpetuate it. Now that being brown isn’t as uncool, especially with Indian actors in side characters in shows, etc., suddenly Ben is half-Indian. In the past though, he presented himself as white and English.
I would take the German woman’s brand of racism any day then a brown dude whose career embodies his shame to be brown.
On the question: I don’t have a problem with overtly racist comments because then I can respond. I have a problem with institutionalized racism that we see every where. While browns — especially Muslims and East Asians — are highly educated and in the highest income bracket of immigrants, we are completely underrepresented in decision-making positions. You will be hard-pressed to find an East Asian president of a university or college etc. Unless it is a start-up company, Asians do not get promoted to positions of power… That’s worse.
I am still shocked into silence by the comments I hear about Muslims just about all the time now. It is acceptable in any setting to bash Muslims…but it never is easy to hear.
Wow Neha, those are especially bitter sounding comments. Not sure what Ben did to so upset you.
Indian American president of a major university. That wasn’t so hard.
Was there a special on faux-outrage today? White-wash his heritage? If anything Ben Kingsley’s obnoxiousness comes from his insistence that people address him as “Sir Ben Kingsley”. But he has never shied away from the role that “Gandhi” played in his career. Nor for that matter playing the Iranian exile in “House of Sand and Fog”, the Jewish gangster Meyer Lansky in “Bugsy”, the Jewish Holocaust camp survivor in “Schindler’s List” or the Latin prison guard in “Death and the Maiden”
As for Haley & Jindal, neither of them are running for the council of their local mandir/gudwara – they hold political office to represent a variety of people. Given that the matter of religion of “true” religious backgrounds continues to dog Obama, even after he has professed his Christian faith dozens of times, do you really want to go down this road?
BTW – Kingsley was funny as hell on The Sopranos.
Count me among the skeptics. BK brings up his Indian connection when there is money to be made, otherwise he dodges questions regarding his ethnicity. He mentioned his Indian background when Gandhi was released, now he brings up his Indian background with release of Prince of Persia. The second reason to be suspicious is anti-semitism is the greatest sin and crime in Hollywood. Antisemitism means career death in Hollywood. A child molestor like Roman Polanski will be forgiven before an anti-semite.
My personal experience with Germans is that they are indeed quite racist. Once I was at my friend’s apartment. My friend is white and 6′ 4″. I am much shorter than that. His apartment mate’s German mother, who was visiting, walked into the room. He introduced me, she ignored me, and proceeded to tell him a story about some other (German) friend of hers who was touring through China. The point of the story was that this fellow towered over the natives, and they fawned over him in awe because of it.
Another time I was in a business meeting where a representative from a German company got up to give a talk. As a mood-lightener, he decided to re-tell a line from The Hunt for Red October. However, he mis-quoted it, so that it came out as, “You! You with your black brain, you’re listening to Mozart???”
I don’t have any encounters with Germans who could so pointedly demonstrate a non-racist attitude.
So Ben Kingsley is half white and half Indian.
He grew up in England.
So would it be fair for a man that is half Indian and half English and raised in England, to be more English than Indian?
I would say so, but according to some of you, since he doesnt mention his Indian side in every interview, he is a disgrace.
I can understand people being annoyed with Bobby, with his “I dont even know what India is or how Indian food tastes” attitude, but your feelings toward Ben are misguided.
Yes, white-washed indeed. Its quite telling how Kinglsey never dared portray an Indian on screen. One imagines his fear of people saying “you look indian,” or the horror in his mind if god-forbid his siganture role was an indian protagonist or something. much is revealed by his studious avoidence of such a conflict.
eh, i don’t know if i buy this story. too convenient.
a german anti-semite?
and these sorts of comments are usually made against a third party pf peoples who are not a part of the conversation – almost like a way for the offender to “find common ground” with his/her audience. so i don’t know if i buy the direct insult to BK.
Abhi,
Just because you cite one president doesn’t mean that racism is not inherent in the system or that minorities are not vastly underrepresented in managerial or decision-making positions.
Your counter with one example is like saying because Oprah is a billionaire and because Obama is the president, there is no racism against blacks in America.
Understanding nuances of sociology: You’re doin it rong.
Neha: There are plenty of Indian CXOs (i.e. CEO, CFO, CTO, COO) at companies they didn’t start, e.g Pepsi, Cisco, Citibank to name a few. It may be a recent phenomena but let’s not pretend that there hasn’t been major progress. There are a respectable number of Indian deans at major engineering & B-schools (e.g. Harvard) in this country. Heads of universities typically are drawn from the humanities & social sciences and the older generation tended to avoid these areas of study based on practical concerns.
BK brought up his heritage with the press when he was cast as Gandhi, he has also been open about his pragmatic adoption of his mothers’ maiden name. I know turbanned Sikhs who identify themselves as English, believe me they are not hiding from anything. It may be somewhat anomalous as the younger set would identify as British as nationality vs English or “Asian” as ethnicity. He didn’t throw anyone under the bus on his way to the top. And as much as I don’t care for candidates having to profess a particular faith to get elected, Jindal and Haley didn’t start that fire. And if anything there are more whites made ineligible for office because of that (i.e. failing the faith test) than Indian-Americans.
Manju,
did you really mean it? I mean, no sarcasm or anything right? (just giving you a dignified way out..)
anyway, three words at you.
OH. MY. GOD.
Um, no, I think she was being sarcastic.
I find it pecular that the Germans do not feel any guilt about what their ancestors have commited against people who were not blonde haired and blue eyed. They were responsible for collectively exterminating the Jews, Handicapped, gypsies and prisoners of war. That is not enough, now Germany is known to host many right wing neo nazi groups like Deutsche Rechtspartei, Socialist Reich Party etc, and now, the National Democratic Party of Germany have sucessfully made headway into politics with strong support from the eastern side of the country, already reputed to be the most intolerant region of Germany. Ben Kingsley should not have been suprised by that ageing geriatric Kraut women, she is after all a German, what more can you expect other than racial hostility and bigotry. Given her age, she is probably in a coma now, but who cares anyway! -Johnny
Do you people fail to see the irony in slamming Germans as universally racist?
Folks, I will delete and ban any more bigoted comments or over generalizations against Germans. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Keep your comments constructive or don’t make any.
O’ Man, nelliampathi, what was I thinking? I forgot all about his role in “Prince of Persia.” if only freddy mercury lived to see it.
I always thought Sir Ben was trying to play down his race. So I was surprised when he said he is extremely proud of his lineage. Well done Sir, well done Sir.
My experience with Germans has actually been so nice that I often wondered if they are being extra nice to offset the historical nastiness.
I fondly remember arbitering in the Dusseldorf-Cologne beer wars among my 20-something friends a few years ago.
Johnny on May 30, 2010 1:12 AM “I find it pecular that the Germans do not…”
One question: Google, Bing or Yahoo?
I’m just wondering which search engine you used to find this website so that you could post your insignificant little drive-by comment and then disappear. I’m writing a thesis on unhappy trolls.
Up until now, I always had thought that Ben Kingsley was a white guy… and I always thought it was extremely bizarre that they choose an English white guy to play Gandhi instead of finding an Indian actor to play him. Interesting revelation. And it seemed like they put some sort of ‘black face’ on him in the movie to make him look “the part”. Even now, I wonder why they chose him for the part (Half Indian or no..he doesn’t really look like a convincing Gandhi to me).
He doesn’t “look” very Indian though… and anyone know why he changed his name from an overtly Indian one to a very very white sounding one? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not judging him based on this decision, I just find it interesting that Krishna Banji became Ben Kingsley… or is that just his stage name?
@LinZi- Here’s what Kingsley told an interviewer in 2007:
Everyone is show biz changes their name! Even Rush Limbaugh wasn’t born Rush Limbaugh.
Also, this is not a ‘European’ thing. (I’m looking at you Razib.) Believe me.
i really hate it when people put words into my mouth. i never it was a european thing. i was saying that on average ways in which americans are sensitized europeans are not as sensitized. just like in ways europeans are sensitized japanese are not sensitized.
but wuteva. gotta get some sun so i’m more nero 🙂