My friend Shani, a brilliant blogger at the ever-scintillating Post-Bourgie, tweeted something which caught my eye: “Click this link before the Economist fixes it!”. I dutifully did so, and then chortled. Look!
Post text goes here, bla bla bla. 🙂 Oh, like you could’ve resisted.
Sir – I am rather fond of your publication The Economist, especially when it inadvertently publishes “ghost” posts online which have to do with the city of Delhi and the sport of Cricket. How’s your Monday, Mutineers? Hopefully better than some Economist-employed web-editor’s, hmm? 😉
lol, the comments are even funnier!
You’ve got to love the Economist for not deleting those comments.
I actually came here eager to comment on MIA’s new video so here goes —, in the words of Aziz Ansari, Rombo Nalla Paatu and video MIA!!
So why was desi douche of the day closed for comments???
@4, because of the BAAWWWING of the desi dudes on that thread, and the fact that SM’s ‘moderators’ can’t even be bothered to do their jobs anymore.
@3 The thread was closed to foster discussion
Maybe you were late in sending their paycheck. Are you complaining about people with actual day jobs and lives not doing volunteer work to your haughty specs? That thread was useless, but they should waste time on it for you? Speaking of “douches”…
Right, why start a blog when you don’t even have the time to moderate it? All I see is time and time again a pass is given to racist, sexist or otherwise -ism comments, because the moderators throw up their hands claiming their lives are busy already. Well, why would you bother to keep a blog where commenters are not kept in check, allowing their bigotry to alienate a large amount of readership? This is one of the worst moderated blogs I have seen. Many sensitive issues are discussed here, which require a lot of comment moderation. A good format would be the Racialicious blog, where posted comments are evaluated individually. Yes it would take time, but other sites manage to do it this way, so why can’t SM?
I remember a time when offensive comments would be quickly deleted on SM, but that time is long past (years). Now the mods just let the commenters run wild, and run their mouths.
Metal Mickey:
When we started the blog we had more time, but also the ratio of trollish to constructive comments was much more favorable.
Large blogs I know have gone with one of three solutions: 1. Let comments run free 2. Hire people full time to ride herd on comments 3. Shut down comments altogether
You can only do #2 if you have revenue, from advertisement and the like. Most of the blogs I read are either in categories 1 or 3. We’ve been trying to straddle, but clearly not to peoples’ satisfaction.
“We’ve been trying to straddle”
Ennis don’t do that too much in T hold em…you could lose a lot of money 🙂
@Rohit,
I’m not sure whether it reflects well or poorly upon you that your first inclination was a Texas holdem joke.
I can see why the comments were closed. But it’s a shame because I thought underneath all the acrimony, some nastiness and much anger there was something to be learned in the sheer difference of perspectives. Lack of racism, bigotry etc. etc. may make for comfortable discussions but little in the way of learning.
Just my 2 bits.
yoga it reflects well because I play poker for a living, out-earning my brother who had to endure med school.
Ennis:
I still think you would do well at least to look into option #2. Many sensitive issues are and have been discussed on this blog, some very close to people’s hearts. In my opinion. to let commentary go loose is disrespectful to people’s feelings. I have also noticed that the ‘one handle per thread’ rule is not well supervised anymore either. There is also an increase in trolls, where before there was only Pardesi Gori or Prema, now there are many more. Lastly, the massive influx of Hindutva-loving proto-fascist needs to be stemmed. Would you visit an American forum full of teabaggers? I think not. I want you to see that the inactions of the mods have driven away many thoughtful, sensitive commenters and they have been replaced by aforementioned Hindu fascists, and a flood of DBDs who come here to complain about foreign-born desis. I remember a time when the mods would come down like a ton of bricks on the latter group. As for the former…as foreign born Indians we are hyper-aware of bigotry. So it would do you good not to further this association with a group of people who do not look out of place in this list: Falangists – Front National – BNP – Lega Norde – Vlaams Belang – etc etc. A group who opposes freedom and would like India to be exclusively for one religious group, one people.
Just my two cents.
Metal mickey, sweeping generalizations like yours about whole groups of people, just because they have a different viewpoint to yours, has also driven away decent commentators. “Your” side, whatever that may be, also has it fair share of trolls and ” —ists” (fill in the blanks). As for the other post, why is it ok for the blogger to call someone a douche – an ugly, vulgar word that shouldn’t be used casually about someone — and not ok for others to criticize her for that? If criticism of her amounts to attacking her character, then surely calling someone a douche in a post that is seen and read by hundreds is also attacking someone’s character? You want the freedom for your “oh-so-stylish” family to break out into peals of laughter over someone else’s fashion sense, but if someone criticizes that, then you start your “whining DBDs are ruining this blog” etc. Are you so sure that all you foreign-born ones are that fashionable anyways:) Judging from my trips to the UK and US, not really:) Am I allowed to break into peals of laughter at your slavish sense of conformity or would that be an unfair generalization?
Agree with delurker #14. If you ABD bloggers are going to make condescending remarks about DBDs, you should be able to take some criticism for it. Closing the comments was a very cowardly response. And Phillygrrl’s post was a giant step backwards in bridging the gap between the two groups, if as Anna claimed, that is one of the aims here.
@delurker – LMAO at your outrage. My family is DBD, first and foremost, I’m the only one who is from abroad. Nobody with their head screwed on right wears 2 button down shirts over each other, especially in those horrible colours. Apparently you don’t know India as well as you think you do. Secondly, why are you entereing into a pissing contest about NRI vs DBD? Note that I didn’t say that DBDs should be rendered unwelcome – there are plenty of good DBDs. Just those DBDs who whine and piss and moan about how hard they’re done by. This group of DBDs also largely supports the fascists I mentioned. I would like to think that SepiaMutiny does not support such a distasteful movement.
By the way, how can you even talk about ‘my side’ (whatever that means) when you don’t even know where my allegiance is. I have no interest in Indian politics apart from being anti-fascist, so don’t bring that up.
And you know what? Maybe “hey, look at this douche” just means “hey, look at this douche”. Not DBD douche, not ABD douche, just douche. Huge amounts of people took it to mean something about them personally. The problem is that the Indian media feeds an inferiority complex of the DBDs. I’ve never met an NRI who thought less of DBDs, but many seem to imagine that this is the case and take it out on NRIs unwarrented.
But. . . he used the word “straddle.”
straddle.
By the way, I didn’t realise that being against racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism, transphobia etc….was a side. I thought it was simply a human position to take.
Ah I see. So your lack of interest in Indian politics is what leads you to perpetuate political talking points against a party you don’t like? Is that it?
Sounds suspiciously like a tea-bagger, who has no interest in American politics aside from being anti-socialist/communist/whatever. The lack of interest is made apparent by the obvious lack of education that comes with randomly slinging negative labels around as if it means anything.
I suppose to a fascist, being an anti-fascist is a bad thing, isn’t it Yoga Fire?
To make it clear to anyone: I don’t have any investment in most Indian political parties. Sorry, my earlier comment was badly worded. I have been accused earlier of being a supporter of the Gandhis, which couldn’t be further from the truth, as I don’t care for the Gandhis. That was what I was addressing with my comment.
So I don’t support your agenda of excluding any other religions than Hinduism, obviously that must mean I’m uneducated, huh? By the way, my entire family is DBD, and virulently anti-BJP/Hindutva, so I’m pre-empting the “oh you must be an NRI” inevitable attack.
Metal Mickey,
Right, so your massive generalizations about any poster’s who may have voiced differing views on that douche thread as all being facists and ‘hindutva trolls’, reflects your deep commitment to being against racism & sexism ?
The only prejudice i can see is the one that you are displaying..
So much straw. I think my hay fever is acting up. What makes you uneducated is the fact that you obviously have no idea what the actual agendas of the people you’re talking about are. Not the BJP and certainly not me.
It’s easy to stick your fingers in your ears and repeat “fascist” over and over again. Don’t fool yourself into thinking this makes either informed or virtuous though.
I think metal mickey is that former poster “rob,” trolling to make the other side look bad. Wasn’t he the only one who ever talked about Vlaams Belang?
Metal Mickey, judging from your tone, you seem far more outraged than I am.
“Nobody with their head screwed on right wears 2 button down shirts over each other, especially in those horrible colours. Apparently you don’t know India as well as you think you do. “
Where to start with this ridiculous statement. Who exactly is the authority on what is right and what is wrong about wearing two shirts in differing colours? If there are people in India who find this funny, are they the final arbiters of what is good taste and what isn’t? Or have they been influenced by someone else’s fashion sense, someone else with an inflated sense of their own fashion sense? Isn’t the fellow wearing these shirts Indian? Perhaps there are other Indians who see nothing wrong with it? Are you saying they all have their heads screwed on backwards and that yours is screwed on right? Perhaps they would break into peals of laughter at your dress sense and think that your head is not screwed on right. So perhaps you, too, don’t know India as well as you think you do? Or does India equal only what some think? Have you seen the fashion sense of many of the Indians, whether they are born in India or abroad, who think they have a fashion sense or know what fashion is? It’s quite embarrassing at times. A villager often has more elegant fashion sense than most elite DBDs or foreign-born Indians.
“Secondly, why are you entereing into a pissing contest about NRI vs DBD?”
I merely said DBDs who want to complain about a post shouldn’t be criticized when the blogger can get away with calling someone a douche. If I disagreed with a blogger and called them a douche in the comments section, I’m pretty sure I would be warned or deleted or banned.
In fact, look at your first comment on that thread and tell me how it didn’t contribute to a “pissing contest between NRI vs. DBD”. Also, look at your casual use of the word fascist and BJP in a post where it wasn’t even necessary. You immediately linked criticism of the blogger with being a fascist. Is that fair?
Your comment on that thread:
“I don’t have any comments on the video but wow, look at all the butthurt desi dudes crawling out of the woodwork. Who then come here to whine about how desi women don’t give them the time of day. Maybe you should work on your charming personalities instead. Hint: being a BJP fascist might not get you laid as easily as you may think.”
His outfit would earn peals of laughter in my home. He looks like an extra from a Prabhu Deva music video.”
“This group of DBDs also largely supports the fascists I mentioned.”
Another ridiculous generalization. Some might, some might not. And how do you know that you are correct in calling them fascists in the first place? Do you not think that that term is thrown around quite casually on this blog, as casually as any other insults of which you accuse these “fascists”? And do you think that those who stand in opposition to all these alleged fascists are free of bias and have motives as pure as the driven snow? Disagreeing with a position doesn’t make one a fascist.
“By the way, how can you even talk about ‘my side’ (whatever that means) when you don’t even know where my allegiance is.”
Likewise, how do you know who is a fascist and who isn’t just based on comments on this blog? Why did you link BJP and fascism to the people criticizing Phillygrrrl’s post? And what do you mean when you are anti-fascist? Do you think fascism only exists in one part of the Indian political spectrum, as you seem to think? If you have no interest in Indian politics, how can you make that assumption, which is the assumption you seem to have made. There’s been plenty of “fascism” by all sides of the political spectrum in discussions on this blog and in the Indian political spectrum.
“Maybe “hey, look at this douche” just means “hey, look at this douche”.”
Does it matter who the word douche is directed at? I suspect there would have been just as much criticism, if not more, if the target of this word had been American-born or British-born Asian and the blogger had been DBD. Anyways, that’s not the point. The blogger is free to call someone a douche. But, commentators should be equally free to criticize that choice of word without being accused of attacking the character of the blogger or without being accused of whining. It could have been a post gently poking fun at someone without using the word douche, which is neither funny nor gentle nor genteel. It really should be reserved for those who really are whatever that word means. Many people felt it didn’t apply to the object of ridicule in question.
The fact that this is an ABD-run blog with ABD perspectives will of course cause differences of opinion and conflict with those who are Indian-born and/or live in India. That’s natural, especially when so many posts are not about ABDs or ABD life but about things going on in India or about Indians. Can you expect India-born or Indians in India NOT to respond to ABD perspectives on how India should be? Both sides have funny/ugly stereotypes about each other. Both sides are also defensive – foreign-born and Indian-born — when it comes to criticism. So it’s not just DBDs who are sensitive souls. ABDs and BBDs (British-born) can get quite defensive/annoyed/uppity when they perceive criticism by DBDs or Indian-born people about how they choose to live and dress and speak and interact with the society around them.
“I didn’t realise that being against racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism, transphobia etc….was a side. I thought it was simply a human position to take.”
Yes, and those human or humane positions are not exclusive to “anti-fascists.” How do you know that that the people you lazily label fascists and whiners aren’t against any or all of those things as well? I mean there are homosexual people who are racist. So these labels are all quite useless.
Sorry for the long post.
Can we retire the word fascist please? It died out in 1940s Italy. Let us all agree with George Orwell and substitute bully instead.
I have an even better idea. How about we try engaging with people’s ideas and analyzing their loyalties instead of lazily ascribing tribal labels to people and assuming this lets us magically glean any information about their “true natures?”
OT:
Did anyone notice how, the instant Two Shirts said “barrier”, the camera moved behind one of the metal struts? An obvious image certainly, but the timing! Was it intended, or did it just happen to happen at that point?
Great post, delurker!
@Metal Mickey – comment 13
We could do that if we commercialized the blog, were bought out by a larger family of blogs, and ran lots of ads. I can’t see a volunteer wanting to sit there all day every day watching comments, especially given the way the volume of trollish comments has increased over time.
What’s really happened is that the commenting has changed much more than the moderation. Sure we used to moderate more, but even at our old time investment we couldn’t moderate enough to clean up what currently happens in the blogosphere.
Fly title: SOOOOOOOOOPARDA!
Headline: Chennai Vanquish Mumbai Indians for IPL Title
Rubric: Karunanidhi laments, “If we’d only crushed the Indians 60 years ago I might be PM of Dravidastan today!”
Some people don’t understand the meaning of “Comments closed” and keep posting away their angst on unrelated blog posts. PLEASE, go punch a sofa if you feel angry and offended. Maybe comments on this thread need to be closed too. Btw, hilarious comments on the Economist non-article.
I don’t know… isn’t it unsporting to get in a little jab (“Clearly I’ve hit a nerve.”) and then snatch away your cricket bat and run home?
It’s just as unsporting to hold all SM bloggers accountable for the poor word-choice/controversial point-of-view of a guest blogger. They don’t speak as one.
I agree. I’m not sure what this has to do with what I said, but I agree.
Sorry about OT: but atleast I am aiming for same category (“humor”) post.
About the “Desi douche of the day” post:
When I watched video it looked almost like one of my cousins. The guy is trying to say he is a “realistic” lover. This is a new Kollywood/Tollywood trend where guys try to be “enlightened” lovers. He appears to be Tamil, given that he said “Naa ninnu kadalinakkare”.(or something to that effect).
Anyways, it is funny. But I don’t think it needs to be described with “Douche” or “smarmy”. That just comes across as “mean” funny. Rather than, “he is clueless” funny. I think “Yuck” at the end may be harmless but in the context of “douche” and “smarmy”, it might make some SM commentators respond angrily. Especially, if they did something similar when they were young and clueless.
Also, while BMW is like any other car for the blogger, the guy in the video means “expensive cars that you like and I clearly can’t afford”. Every other Kollywood or Tollywood song refers to BMW as short-hand for luxury. I realized after writing this, perhaps without Kollywood/Tollywood knowledge it may be hard to understand where that guy is coming from.
@28 Thom:
I noticed the “barrier” thing too. I think it was intentional, given how he tries to take the location shot and include it in the monologue. That just makes it more funny. He (and his friends, i.e, camera-man) clearly thought out a whole lot about the video.
Hey Ennis, would it help if commenters were forced to register? Or would it not make a difference.
Just so you know, I’ve been lurking on this blog on and off for four years. I really used to enjoy the posts in the beginning, there were many good and repectful discussions. Many people commenting here were feminist and dedicated to fighting oppression. The level has just gotten worse over time however, now it is apparently perfectly normal to state that it is OK to use “disproportionate violence against Muslims’! Verbatim comment from the MIA thread. If this was 4 years ago the commenters would’ve come down as a ton of bricks on such a person. I am shocked how anybody can justify such a mentality. There is no discussion to be had with such a person. Do such people see justification in colonialisation of India by the British then? After all the brown-skinned native is a hard worker, but slow and stupid, and violent by nature. It is therefore justified to let him toil like a slave on tea plantations! ( I am by the way merely using the white Europeans rethoric it is not my own opinion).
For the record, commenter “rob” isn’t the only one who has heard of Vlaams Belang. Indeed, it would be quite stupid if he was the only one who had ever heard of Vlaams Belang. Just so you know, not everybody here is from United States or India.
Shilpa, actually it is interesting you say that. Seeing your comments and your style for a while has actually made me wonder if you are “rob”, and this remark by you only furthers that suspicion.
Or maybe YOU’RE Rob and trying to throw us off the trail?
Or maybe there are many copies. . .
OH MY GOD! Rob is a cylon!
Anyone want to discuss The Economist vs. thread-jacking? 🙂 Just checking.
SM Intern: Has comment registration been considered? Would it halt some of the more extreme posts and drive-by trollings?