Over at Wonkette today they were asking a real brain teaser. Which one of these is not like the others?
Hey, they do it in every single Bollywood movie or Indian channel serial drama. Why not the official Louisiana Governor’s portrait too? As a comparison, here is his official portrait from the 109th Congress (also seen in the middle left photo). Over at The Root they are wondering if Harry Reid was right?
Research strongly suggests that white voters do favor lighter-skinned black candidates. Political scientist Nayda Terkildsen studied the effect of skin color on white voting preferences in her 1993 paper, “When White Voters Evaluate Black Candidates: The Processing Implications of Candidate Skin Color, Prejudice, and Self-Monitoring.”In an experimental study, she presented a random sample of adults descriptions of “one of three fictitious candidates running for governor.” Each candidate was described in identical terms with the only difference being an attached photograph of either “a white male, a light-complected black male, or a dark-complected black male.” Terkildsen found a statistically significant effect that “black candidates were penalized by white voters based on the candidate’s race, skin color, and individual levels of racial prejudice.”
Put another way, when presented with otherwise identical candidates, white voters generally preferred the white candidate to the black candidates and the lighter-skinned candidate to the darker-skinned candidate. (Terkildsen’s analysis only looked at white voters, but perhaps Reid’s remarks will encourage someone to study the effect of skin color on candidate preferences among blacks, Latinos and Asians, too.) [Link]
I bet you, as alluded to in the last sentence, that studies will show that African, Latino, and Asian voters will either conciously or subconciously vote for the lighter skinned candidate too. Like I said, all I have to do is turn on Zee TV to prove this. So I am not going to be overly critical of Jindal for the lighting guy he chose. I am however, going to bow my head in disappointment.
Let us introduce gender too.
White female (Sarah Palin) or Light Skinned brown (Bobby)…who is better pick for Republicans.
Physical attributes are important for American voters. American voters are likely to pick a well spoken handsome brown guy to obese white man…
i think the study is irrelevant even if true. you don’t pick a candidate on an immediate gut instinct. there’s a trial period during which stereotypes fade. condi rice was dark skinned and she was presidential material until the iraqi war dragged on and on. plus reid was wrong. as Bam’s candidacy progressed his blaccent got more pronounced, as he routinely deployed an MLK cadence, some malcolm X pharses (don’t fall for the ol okey-doke) as wel as some contemporary hip-hop signifiers (Dirt Off Ya Shoulders).
It’s odd that you choose to criticize Jindal about this, when you have no evidence he had anything to do with the lighting in his official photograph. It would be better to take on local Democrats–who put out purposely darkened photographs of Jindal before the gubernatorial election–or the Republicans who did the same to another desi in MN.
now doesn’t everyone feel silly for accusing Bobby of losing touch with real Indian values?
Sometimes the lighting, camera’s flash, and sunlight affect the skin color and other colors in photographs. Perhaps some of the pictures are unintentionally lightened or darkened. But in this day where everyone and their mother (and three year old preschooler) can manipulate images with Photoshop, etc , anything is possible.
different photos will show different tones. i assume lighter photos look less sinister, so they’re selected.
. condi rice was dark skinned and she was presidential material until the iraqi war dragged on and on
no she wasn’t. no way the republicans would nominate someone at the top of the ticket who was pro-choice.
and re: dialect, doesn’t jindal affect southern?
that studies will show that African, Latino, and Asian voters will either conciously or subconciously vote for the lighter skinned candidate too.
african americans are just as color-conscious as brownz, as the link you provide implies. e.g., harold ford is part of the “red bone” black elite. recall that malcolm x was groomed for a leadership position in part because of his light complexion (his nickname was “red” for his hair and his mother was half-white). the traditional image of a confucian mandarin is of the pale-face. the commoners who work in the fields are dark.
it’s always right to be light i guess.
I’m not sure about this–most of the Republicans at high-dollar Wall St.-type events are pro-choice–that’s not the issue that’s pissing them off vs. the Dems, who are viewed as dumb on economic regulation and on favoring too much “local” (meaning Lantino, to not hide the ball) immigration over people-like us, i.e., higher-skilled Desi immigration (I guess it helps to be a Hindu rather than a Muslim, but they do love Zarkaria, FYI!).
I’m not sure about this–most of the Republicans at high-dollar Wall St.-type events are pro-choice–that’s not the issue that’s pissing them off vs. the Dems, who are viewed as dumb on economic regulation and on favoring too much “local” (meaning Lantino, to not hide the ball) immigration over people-like us, i.e., higher-skilled Desi immigration (I guess it helps to be a Hindu rather than a Muslim, but they do love Zarkaria, FYI!).
The Wall St Republicans are not as same as other republicans. http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/42802/
I’m not sure about this–most of the Republicans at high-dollar Wall St.-type events are pro-choice–
that’s irrelevant. the calculus is simple: business conservatives want republicans to reduce taxes and regulation. pro-life conservatives want republicans who avow that they’re pro-life. business conservatives don’t worry too much about things like abortion if they’re socially libertarian because social conservatives have lost the culture war thanks to the supreme court. roe vs. wade is the law of the land. there are many more pro-life single-issue voters in the republican party than pro-choice ones (if there are pro-choice single-issue voters in the republican party anymore, they’re kind of dumb), so the loss is great if you don’t toe-the-line on abortion. this is why george h. w. bush switched from being pro-choice to pro-life in 1980 when he was tapped to be VP.
the converse logic applies to democrats. to become nationally viable pro-life democrats like jesse jackson, al gore and dennis kucinich become pro-choice. there are too many single-issue pro-choice voters in the democratic party for them to be viable as pro-lifers nationally.
anyway, it’s off topic. but when it comes to politics it’s tiresome to read blatantly ridiculous assertions.
any lighter and he is going to lose his facial features.
No one is as traumatized by their skin color as much as desis.
The generals who rank above the mandarins do their thing outside and are also darker. In America the tanned jock or all-rounder ranks higher than the pale geek. Desis OTOH whether they work and play outside or only indoors will have much less difference in color, being dark even where the sun doesn’t shine.
Pathetic.
The pictures of Bobby Jindal above remind me of the pictures in Taz’s post about desi women of the decade a few days back. Those pictures also showed the desi gals as much lighter than they really are. How typically desi is that? 🙂
I also couldn’t help noticing that Taz included half whites in her desi list but neglected to include the half african-american Kamala Harris, the Attorney General of San Francisco, who is more likely to reach the top than any of the other women she selected. According to the New York Times she is one of the few american women who have a shot at becoming President. She will be running for Attorney General of California this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris
It is not a “minority” dialect.
That is your opinion. A lot of communities are color conscious – even whites but it is the reverse currently where tan is good, even a whole body spray tan. That is because it is easy for whites to be well white. The challenge is looking tan – different from the rest. The European aristocracy used to powder themselves white. The peasants were the ones who got tan working out doors. It was a status symbol. Now it is reverse. The status symbol is looking tan even in the winter.
Also about dialects, it isn’t just a “minority” thing. Many people feel dinged if they sound too regional. News anchors tend to sound similar. There is a reason why:
“…General American—like British Received Pronunciation (RP) as well as most standard language varieties of many other societies—has never been the accent of the entire nation. However, it has become widely spoken in many American films, TV series, national news, commercial ads, and American radio broadcasts. Local ads, in contrast, tend to use the local accents because they are often made using salespeople or owners from local businesses.
The General American accent is most closely related to a generalized Midwestern accent and is spoken particularly by many newscasters, in part because the national broadcasters preferred to hire people who exhibited similar speech.[citation needed] The famous news anchor Walter Cronkite is a good example of a broadcaster using this accent. General American is sometimes promoted as preferable to other regional accents. In the United States, classes promising “accent reduction” generally attempt to teach speech patterns similar to this accent. The well-known television journalist Linda Ellerbee, who worked hard early in her career to eliminate a Texas accent, stated, “in television you are not supposed to sound like you’re from anywhere”; political comedian Stephen Colbert worked hard as a child to reduce his South Carolina accent because of the portrayal of Southerners as stupid on television of the day. General American is also the accent typically taught to people learning English as a second language in the United States, as well as outside the country to anyone who wishes to learn “American English”. In much of Asia, for example, ESL teachers are strongly encouraged to teach American English, no matter their own origins or accents….” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American
any minority person elected gets that way because of appearing non-threatening and having relatability to the most number of people in the general voting constituency.
“in television you are not supposed to sound like you’re from anywhere”
which is harder to achieve for those who immediately look/sound like they do.
well, she was pro-choice lite with little track record on the issue so I don’t see why she couldn’t pull a George I and get away with it. The point is she was polling pretty high at more than one point bucking the dark-skin rule.
My father is Indian, my mother is German; I was born in Baton Rouge and attended BRHS (before Jindal). I (gasp) have a totally southern accent. It is not an “affected” accent; it is what I grew up with. Bobby Jindal sounds like everyone else there, whatever their color. I am now living elsewhere in US and sure, people are surprised to hear a southern accent when they first meet me, but then they GET OVER IT.
The generals who rank above the mandarins do their thing outside and are also darker
this sort of assertion exhibits a total ignorance of chinese history. despite their occasional power and influence, military vocations had a low status in chinese culture, just like merchants did.* any book on the history of imperial china will note this, and contrast it with the west where civilian domination of power went into eclipse after the rise of the late antique dominate until the emergence of firearms leveled the playing field and made nobles a bit more wary of being front line fighters.
That is because it is easy for whites to be well white. The challenge is looking tan – different from the rest. The European aristocracy used to powder themselves white. The peasants were the ones who got tan working out doors. It was a status symbol. Now it is reverse. The status symbol is looking tan even in the winter.
once the peasants started being factory workers they got less sun exposure. by contrast, the elite with leisure who could travel might spend their winters in warm and sunny locales. whereas before light skin was a sign of leisure (don’t have to work outdoors), dark skin because a sign of leisure (you can spend time having fun outdoors). i think you seem something of the same inversion with fatitude.
re: southern accents. sure, jindal might have one. but a lot of people from educated enclaves in the south don’t have them. i had a close friend from athens, georgia, and most of his friends didn’t have them. but those who went into service sector jobs like insurance ended up getting them. i was to understand that jindal emphasizes his accent a bit more than he might have before, but i could be wrong. anyway, yeah, there is prejudice against southern accents. i think there is social science to show that for some job classes having a southern accent puts you at a major disadvantage, since people perceive you to be less intelligent (i recall that the effect size was 1/2 of that for being black). but the stereotype of southerners being dumb and violent goes back a long way. i read recently that northern ministers repeated a lot of the stuff on social dysfunction from the 1840 census so much that later censuses were changed in terms of their questions so that the south wouldn’t come off so badly. here’s some data on the fact that southerners have smaller vocabularies, even controlling for ethnicity.
The generals who rank above the mandarins do their thing outside and are also darker
this sort of assertion exhibits a total ignorance of chinese history. despite their occasional power and influence, military vocations had a low status in chinese culture, just like merchants did.* any book on the history of imperial china will note this, and contrast it with the west where civilian domination of power went into eclipse after the rise of the late antique dominate until the emergence of firearms leveled the playing field and made nobles a bit more wary of being front line fighters.
That is because it is easy for whites to be well white. The challenge is looking tan – different from the rest. The European aristocracy used to powder themselves white. The peasants were the ones who got tan working out doors. It was a status symbol. Now it is reverse. The status symbol is looking tan even in the winter.
once the peasants started being factory workers they got less sun exposure. by contrast, the elite with leisure who could travel might spend their winters in warm and sunny locales. whereas before light skin was a sign of leisure (don’t have to work outdoors), dark skin because a sign of leisure (you can spend time having fun outdoors). i think you seem something of the same inversion with fatitude.
re: southern accents. sure, jindal might have one. but a lot of people from educated enclaves in the south don’t have them. i had a close friend from athens, georgia, and most of his friends didn’t have them. but those who went into service sector jobs like insurance ended up getting them. i was to understand that jindal emphasizes his accent a bit more than he might have before, but i could be wrong. anyway, yeah, there is prejudice against southern accents. i think there is social science to show that for some job classes having a southern accent puts you at a major disadvantage, since people perceive you to be less intelligent (i recall that the effect size was 1/2 of that for being black). but the stereotype of southerners being dumb and violent goes back a long way. i read recently that northern ministers repeated a lot of the stuff on social dysfunction from the 1840 census so much that later censuses were changed in terms of their questions so that the south wouldn’t come off so badly.
I disagree…India is comprised of thousands of communities and some communities seem to care more than others. In mine noone seemed to give it much importance, so I have little concept of fair, wheatish or dark- I just know my skin color is somewhere between the huge range of Neil Nitin Mukesh and Mindy Kaling (I know that’s meaningless but it’s true). But African Americans in my experience are traumatized to the extent that they get pretty technical about it- most will know if they are considered “high yellow, yellow, high brown, vaseline brown, seal brown, low brown, or dark brown” (or their modern equivalents-these are 1930s slang terms from Zora Neale Hurston’s dictionary of slang).
Hope I have not offended anyone with a different experience…
You do realize Kamala Harris is lighter than most of the desi women she included right?
The ignorance is entirely yours. Ruddy military leaders founded the chinese dynasties, not pale mandarins. The mandarin bureaucracy was in the service of the Emperor and his court and for much of the past millenia chinese dynasties have been of non-Han origin and these militaristic turks, mongols and manchus often looked down on the effeminate han bureaucrats/mandarins who served them.
Another fine example of your ignorance. The Tang Dynasty was an “exception”?? The Yuan and Qing Dynasties were also founded by martial “barbarians”, the mongols and manchus respectively. These warriors and their descendants tended to look down on the Han bureaucrats serving their rule quite like how the mongol turk and west asian muslims who conquered India looked down on the natives of India.
Simplistic BS. The outdoors is where real men have always spent most of their time not just for work but also for play, adventure and warfare.
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blockquote>military vocations had a low status in chinese culture, just like merchants did.
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You are confused and therefore contradicting yourself, because of your eagerness to establish that “light is always right” (which is laughably pathetic coming from a darkie like you). If the productive peasant who works outdoors is ranked higher than the “parasitic” merchant who does not, how does that validate your thesis that “light is always right”???
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blockquote>African Americans in my experience are traumatized to the extent that they get pretty technical about it- most will know if they are considered “high yellow, yellow, high brown, vaseline brown, seal brown, low brown, or dark brown” (or their modern equivalents-these are 1930s slang terms from Zora Neale Hurston’s dictionary of slang).
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blockquote>
This is ridiculous. You are comparing african-american obsession with shades of their color from the pre-Civil Rights era to the current desi obsession with skin color. I dont think african-american dating sites openly obsess over the color of potential mates as desi matrimonial sites so openly and shamelessly do.
fwiw, avatar is either purposely deceiving re: chinese history, or doesn’t know and doesn’t care (in fact, the follow up avoids repeating the blatantly false assertion about status hierarchies and emphasizes control, though even in this case it’s distorting). i think it’s macacaroach or whatever the creature last went by….
In many African countries one can by skin bleaching cream (which is much stronger and more abrasive/dangerous than “fair and lovely”) that often destroys and ruins their skin forever– yet some people continue to use it in the quest for lighter skin. http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/23046/27658.jpg
White Americans go to tanning booths even after proof that it will cause premature aging and skin cancer. I hear white girls in Maine always complaining about how pale and chalky they look and how they just can’t seem to get tan– a horrible thing for them.
Indians can be very obsessed with skin tone– seeing lighter skin as more beautiful– regardless of skin tones.
Truth is– for many people– the grass is always greener on the other side. People want what they can’t have and the media loves to spur this emotions onward.
In terms of pictures, who knows if he did it on purpose or not– I have seen pictures where people look way lighter or darker than they do in real life depending on lighting and environment… so who knows– in the end though Bobby Jindal still have no public speaking skills.
You mean, it’s the not the photo in bottom left – the only one where he’s in shirtsleeves? 🙂 I don’t get the point of photoshopping skin color though. Can you also do it on television and in public meetings?
He cannot go into a 7/11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts
Bobby Jindal can turn on and off his southern accent.
Here is his acceptance speech as governor with the southern accent.
Here is an old one on healthcare reform from 2001 where it is a much more neutral accent.
“well, she was pro-choice lite with little track record on the issue so I don’t see why she couldn’t pull a George I and get away with it.”
Hi Manju, what do you mean by pro choice lite
http://www.cbn.com/contact/feedback-700club.aspx Smite Jindal and Pat Robertson. White power interchangeable alter-egos. “Stop the ride, I wanna get off.” – Cyanamid
I subconsciously turn on and turn off all kind of speech patterns and mannerisms depending on who I speak to and what I’m trying to say. This isn’t anything unusual or “suspicious.”
just that she’s described herslef as “miildly prochoice”, doesn’t have much of a track record on the issue, and could’ve therefore always pulled an effective switcharoo if she had decided to take advantage of her popularity and make a bid for the nom and potus.
FYI – Skin color as a social status indicator is a factor.
“…Chinese girls cower under the rays of the sun, like vampires at dawn. The umbrellas are pulled out to shade them and in the absence of an umbrella, they will school books, bags or jackets over their heads to shield themselves from a pleasant sunny day. You might identify umbrella use with rainy days, but in China, come rain or sunshine, the umbrellas are always out. So why the obsession with fish-belly white skin? Well, in Victorian times, white skin was all the rage amongst the European aristocracy. They powdered their faces. White skin was evidence that you could afford a life of leisure, whereas a tan showed you labored in the sun like the peasants. In China, the farmers and migrant workers have deeply tanned skin. Dark skin is indicative of a lower class. And while white skin is popular for Chinese, all the expats rush to the solariums to get their tans at 90 RMB for 12 minutes (I am embarrassed to know this). Caucasians feed an equally large industry on skin care products to become brown as Asians have to stay white. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder and one’s culture and upbringing have a lot to do with concepts of beauty….” http://www.chinatravel.net/forum/Shanghai-Racism-with-Chinese-Characteristics/32.html
And Europeans also used to skin bleach when pale skin in Europe signified high social status. So there you have White people chemically bleaching their European skin to be even whiter.:
“…First and foremost was her exceedingly pale skin–a prerequisite for a courtly beauty. The manneristic portraits of the late 16th century all portrayed their female (and male) subjects with alabaster complexions, lacking even the rosy glow that became popular during the next century.
Pale skin was a sign of nobility, wealth, and (for women) delicacy, and was sought after by many. In a time when skin problems and the pox were commonplace, sunscreen unheard of, and skin creams and ointments out of reach for all but the well-off, smooth, unblemished and pale skin was a rarity.
This pale skin could be achieved by a number of means, the most popular being ceruse, a mixture of white lead and vinegar that was favored by the nobility and by those who could afford it. This white foundation was applied to the neck and bosom as well. The first record of this skin-whitener was found in 1521, and by the time of Elizabeth’s reign was well-established as an essential item for the fashionable woman. Naturally, spreading lead upon one’s skin caused a variety of skin problems; some authors of the time warned against it, describing how it made the skin “grey and shrivelled”, and suggesting other popular mixtures such a paste of alum and tin ash, sulpher, and a variety of foundations made using boiled egg white, talc, and other white materials as a base. Egg white, uncooked, could also be used to “glaze” the complexion, creating a smooth shell and helping to hide wrinkles…” http://www.elizabethancostume.net/makeup.html
Someone actually bothered to do a “History of Tanning” : http://www.health24.com/medical/Focus_centres/777-2268-3749-3750,38363.asp
Apparently fashionista Coco Channel in the 1920s first made tanning popular, “She accidentally tanned while on holiday and, on her return, a trend was set.”
There’s an article in the NY Times this morning on skin bleaching creams that is relevant: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/health/16skin.html?ref=global-home
Obama does the same thing here black accent when speaking at a black church… http://cbs2chicago.com/video/?id=33004@wbbm.dayport.com
Compare it to his 2004 speech at the DNC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWynt87PaJ0
OMG, that “black” accent of Obama’s is soooooooooooo fake.
Nigga, please.
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““In fact, it’s a growing practice and one that has been stimulated by the companies that produce these products,” she said. “Their advertisements connect happiness and success and romance with being lighter skinned.”” from that article.
In recent visits to India you see the usual Indian skin lightening creams, but what I actually saw more often in TV commercials are Ponds, Olay, and Garnier skin lightening products. Garnier even had a skin shade chart that you could use to measure how many tones lighter your skin got after using their product. Every one is getting into the act.
Plus, in that article there is a picture of Sammy Sosa before and after skin bleach. That is also something I noticed more of – skin lightening products for men. The beauty industry for men and women is often about making people unhappy with who they are – you just as you are suck but our product for $$$ will help you not suck.
The one company that I am aware of that is trying to help at least girls and women feel good about who they are as they are is Dove, “Campaign for Real Beauty” http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/. It may or may not be out of real concern, but at least one company is doing this.
Yup. Why settle for selling skin whitening products to just one gender, when you can sell double your product … Doesn’t hurt to have Bollywood leading men like Shah Rukh Khan and John Abraham promoting the product in ads.
“…The commercials are sending a not-so-subtle message to men in Asia: Get whiter skin, and you’ll get the girl and the job of your dreams. Or at the very least you’ll be noticed. Skin whiteners were once targeted only to women. Now the products are a hot commodity for men…. Many of the brands being advertised for men are well known around the world — including Nivea and Garnier. A marketing study found sales for skin whitening creams have jumped more than 100 percent in rural India and sales for male grooming products are increasing 20 percent annually. Hindustan Unilever, one of the largest consumer products companies in India, noted in recent annual reports that “skin lightening continues to be a major area of emphasis” for its skin care division. And Emami Ltd., the company which produces “Fair and Handsome,” sent CNN an email saying: “Fair and Handsome is a market leader with almost 70 percent market share in India and doing extremely well in Gulf countries and the Middle East as well.“ http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/09/09/india.skin/index.html
Vaseline is also into the whitening business – not just the face either:
“…But marketers, spotting an opportunity, have ploughed in. Advertising spending on skin-whitening products jumped by more than a third in the first seven months of this year in India, compared with the same period in 2008, with Vaseline Healthy White Body being the most advertised new cosmetics brand on television.
….“It is likely that within five to ten years, sales of male skin-whitening products could reach similar levels as female skin whiteners,” Carrie Lennard, a research analyst with Euromonitor International, said.” http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/consumer_goods/article6971036.ece
Do these products actually work? If so I would like to lighten my skin two shades.
shreya… just in case you’re not kidding these products dont work. they can result in lesions and permanent scarring. i would however recommend a spot of exercise in the outdoors. nothing speaks of beauty more than the bright eyed, ruddy hued look after a brisk walk on a winter afternoon.
@AK Truly you must not know many black people. I have seen with my own eyes I am black by the way that not many black people trip about their skin color. You have some that do but it is very rare. I hate it when folks like to speak on black people like we are all alike.
Most people vote for politicians who look like them. And while whites often endure probably 99% of the “racism!1” accusations, out of any ethnic group whites are probably the least likely to vote for someone based on identity. Whites in particular have been indocrinated with white guilt for generations and are culturally extremely self-critical and introspective (to a pathological degree in my opinion). And I wouldn’t jump to conclusions too quickly about that particular photo. It just makes you look self-conscious. Often people with darker skin ask for additional lighting in order to fully reveal their facial features (I heard it on Oprah so it must be true). The real reason why people in Bollywood try to vanilla face themselves is because we’re just so good looking of course.
Living in California, I’ve done the outdoor thing: windsurfing, sailing, hiking, etc. It’s hell on your skin. So much sun damage. It’s fine for a guy, but at the end of the day, a girl is always judged by her looks. If whites can fry their skin to be a few shades darker then what’s the big deal with an Indian wanting to make his/her skin a few shades lighter? Doesn’t mean I hate Indians or have issues, for me it’s just about aesthetics.
So true. Whites are the least racist of any ethnic group I know. And the are the least likely to engage in race based “humor”. Other ethnic groups have no qualms about voicing their “opinions” about “others”. Whites always tow the PC line, to a fault.