Growing up I adored the holidays. We sang carols in school, followed by vacation and festive parties thrown by my parents’ European friends. The highlight of the season, and our key family tradition, was to walk down 5th Avenue and look at the various Christmas displays in the shop windows.
For me, my favorite parts were the rampant commercialism and the massive displays of conspicuous consumption. Christmas was never a family holiday, we never kept a tree in our Manhattan apartment and in my Jewish neighborhood nobody believed in Santa, a custom my neighbors explained was a bit of gentile foolishness for children who were too slow to notice that apartments had no chimneys.
For these reasons I never developed a deep abiding affection for the holidays. Many of my brown friends are thrilled that the season is upon us, talking about how they plan to make the holiday their own, putting a Khanda on top of a “Christmas Tree”, etc. And why not? The tree is an old pagan tradition that was only grudgingly accepted by the Catholic Church, all the best Christmas songs were written by Jews, and Santa Claus is Punjabi .
Personally, I’m more of a bah humbug kind of guy. Where I live in the Midwest, strangers answer your Happy Holidays with a Merry Christmas in such a way to make me want to declare war against it, or explain to them in a pedantic fashion that the early Christians didn’t celebrate Christmas because birthday celebrations were seen as pagan, and that most of the traditions associated with Christmas are either pagan (like the word Yule) or the result of fairly recent invention. With such stress, there’s a reason why cardiac mortality increases this time of year.
How about y’all? Are you grinchy like me, viewing Xmas as just a cheap travel day? Or do you have a sentimental attachment to the holidays and all their trimmings? (video after the fold)
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I can only take your word for it babe.
Nope.
Hey, maybe its yours! 😉
I guess we’ll never know.
Anyway, Christmas can be celebrated as a winter festival of family and friendship and giving and enjoyment – that’s why I love it. That’s why its so lovely and great.
Happy Birthday of Mithra. Hopefully, Diwali and Dusshera will never be co-opted by the abrahamic conversionists while denigrating the Source.
Going to watch Avatar – directed by the Hindoo Nationalist James Cameron.
Who is this “we”, Manju?
Your link shows that some ignorant redneck confused a greek orthodox priest for an arab terrorist and beat him up.
This is no longer the case in the new millenium wherein many things Desi are considered “cool” like herbal healing, yoga, meditation, Bollywood, OM and shanti.
In post-modern multi-culti America, the more “exotic” you are, the better. Kids can easily employ this Desi cool exotic factor into their school life and gain some popularity. 10 years ago this may have still been difficult. But not any more.
You are delusional to think desis are seen as cool in America….
2010 Avatar and noway,
I think both of your opinions are actually correct– yes in some ways desi culture is seen as ‘cool’– yoga, indian food, slumdog millionaire are all quite appealing things to the American public (though some, like my Aunt, admittedly don’t know yoga is from India!) Of course, thinking these things are cool does not always translate over into general acceptance. Also, like I have mentioned before, though small, the South Asian centers with classes on South Asian culture, history, language, and so forth are growing in US universities.
At the same time, I would guess that children in general are still doing what they always do– which is picking on people that don’t fit the norm of whatever society they live in. I still remember my kindergartners telling a boy in there class he wasn’t allowed to like dolls because he was a boy– even by age 5 they have picked up these ‘rules’ and attempt to force others in their age group to follow them. I don’t doubt it would be much different for kids if someone wore their salwaar suit to school or had uncut hair/turban, etc. Unless of course, the community either sees this as a norm already, or if the parents/educators are doing a very good job teaching the children to be open minded about different cultures.
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blockquote>@Amrita: What’s wrong with Happy Holidays? It’s inclusive and generic, and doesn’t presume which particular holiday you celebrate. It’s a greeting which is in the holiday spirit.
DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! We have a winnar!
For a long time I had always assumed “Happy Holidays” meant Merry Christmas + Happy New Year. I never realized it was supposed to be an all-inclusive, wishy-washy, non-denominational greeting until O’Reilley started his “War on Christmas” drumbeating. I still don’t really think it makes sense to insist on saying “Happy Holidays” just because you feel left out. “I don’t want to play your game so I’m going to rain on your parade” has never struck me as an especially appealing course of action.
If I know someone is Jewish I say Happy Channukah. Otherwise I say “Merry Christmas” as the default because, frankly, there is a “reason for the season” as it were. Everyone else (including the Church) is just piggy-backing. Even Channukah was never that big of a deal, it only swelled up in importance because Jewish parents didn’t want their kids to feel left out of everyone else’s reindeer games. If they don’t like it that’s just too bad. There are more important things to worry about like “What kind of candy-cane do I want to stir into my hot cocoa, peppermint or butterscotch?”
Is it really that much to ask that we come together and share in each others’ celebrations? For all this talk of “secularism” is nobody seeing the irony in clearly demarcating that “Muslims live in this box and Christians live in that one and Hindus hang out in this one over here and Sikhs belong in that one over there while. . .?”
Isn’t Christmas just the Big Guy’s offspring’s birthday?
I don’t celebrate xmas. But I make it a point to say Merry Xmas instead of Happy Holidays to everyone. Most of the time people (even turbaned ones) respond with a equally cheery Merry xmas. Some of them respond with Happy Holidays. It’s usually the xtians trying to be sensitive.
Linzi,
I think that is a good reason to continue to develop positive images of south asians in the US, if south asian children did feel in some ways second-class or vulnerable because of their heritage, that should be and would be quite worrisome.
I don’t think in many places in the US that would be so. It seems quite passe to pass judgment in that way, and it was so when I was young as well. Our society in general should become concerned if there is a wide-spread sector of it’s children who are second-class in this way.
Needless to say, you can celebrate or acknowledge Christmas, even if you are not a Christian. Our family has been doing that for 30 years. We have a dinner, family get-together, exchange a few gifts, and listen to Christmas music. In order to deep into the historical or spiritual significance of Christmas, you probably have to be a devout Christian. But how many even professing Christians are like that? Christmas nowadays does seem to revolve around the ‘externals’. Christmas ‘shopping’ is a big issue for many people.
I have a hard time understanding why these differences in clothing and fabric are so out of bounds. A turban is made generally I believe of cotton, and it’s wrapped around the head. A salwar kameez is often made of cotton, maybe polyester, and comes in two parts, a bottom piece that may be known as a pajama, and a top piece, which is very similiar to a shirt.
Why are these things, when worn by another person, license for someone to be a target of scorn or anger. It does seem to occur, but why is this so, and why is it apparently common and reasonable. There is something wrong with a situation where these objects provoke out-sized anger, and the wearer is made to feel shame that he or she has chosen to wear these pieces of clothing.
As a secular holiday of good cheer, why not celebrate? More awkward is the preliminary “happy holidays” when it’d be perfectly fine to say “merry christmas”.
As a time when according to the Eastern Orthodox I believe, it’s a time to be present to mark the time when God became incarnate on Earth, it’s a pretty profound reason to mark an occasion.
As a club to wield against the enemies of polyglot culture, it’s not as appealing.
Ennis, all religious and religiously oriented holidays are juicy with tradition and it’s unfeeling and drab to lump them all under a generic Happy Holidays. It’s not so much inclusive as homogenizing, which sort of takes the color and meaning out of things. One thing we got right in Desh is equidistant secularity, so that all kinds of different communities celebrate each other’s festivals and enjoy one another instead of trying to squash all of them into one thing. That kind of constructive engagement is either still to come or being knocked off course by all this Happy Holidays brouhaha in the US.
Yoga Fire is absolutely correct about all this piggy backing, but of course Christmas is piggy backed on Yule too, which is undeniably the only sensible way to deal with the onset of winter– party down and call midwinter the start of a new year.
Another funny this is that because of the “Happy Holidays” malarkey I see a lot of people automatically assume that every religion has a holiday to celebrate around this time. So I get people asking me things like “So what do Muslims/Hindus celebrate at this time of year?” and all I can say is “Um. . . Christmas?”
This is usually followed by a head-cocked sideways, blank-stare look.
“One thing we got right in Desh is equidistant secularity, so that all kinds of different communities celebrate each other’s festivals and enjoy one another instead of trying to squash all of them into one thing.”
I agree… I think India has the right idea in this regard— we should not be trying to strip the religion out of holidays, instead we should just learn about and celebrate the different religious holidays. This is where I think many western countries are going wrong– trying to strip religion out of every public event– it should not be so, we should just be respecting each other’s religion, and the government itself should not be following just ONE and ignoring the rest.
If they are hot, they are.
Good looking people are always seen as cool.
Anyway, U.S. is so multi-culti and p.c. right now that anything goes – so take advantage!
Linzi, I don’t know if it’s the place of the government to celebrate ANY religious Holy Day, whether it’s 1 or 100.
I mean, I guess it’s a nice gesture if they do, but it should in no way be a requirement or even expected.
When Hindus celebrate Diwali, Muslims celebrate Ramadan and Sikhs celebrate Guru Jayanti – do they say “happy holidays” to each other?
2010 Year of Avatar – noway is Prema, a troll who seems to hate all things desi. I’ve definitely experienced what you are saying. I just got back from seeing my cousin who’s in hs and she wears many Indian clothes, (kurtas, salvar tops, etc) and Indian shoes (in the summer with her outfits) – and yeah it’s all considered cool. Though she’s a very pretty girl, and hs that seems to mean a lot regardless – and that’s not a good thing.
“When Hindus celebrate Diwali, Muslims celebrate Ramadan and Sikhs celebrate Guru Jayanti – do they say “happy holidays” to each other?”
in the u.s, there are no holidays for any of them, so it doesn’t make any sense to call it happy holidays. i think people shouldn’t get offended for either, both are perfectly valid ways to wish you well. but for me, merry christmas makes most sense than anything else for the christmas break we are enjoying. isnt’ there something magical about christmas even for a non-religious person, the lights, snow (too much of it if you were in the wrong part of the country, sorry), holidays, gifts, parties
NOT. On both accounts.
Why is that not a good thing. It’s been scientifically proven that humans respond favorably to attractive visual stimulai. I fail to see how that’s a negative.
Usually people who whine about not being accepted are those who do not look good.
There are ways to improve looks that don’t cost a lot or require surgery.
Why is that not a good thing.
Really? You have to ask? Simply put, there’s more important things in life – character, leadership, intelligence – that have nothing to do with looks. In HS, and yes I am generalizing, children are at an age, where looks seem to predominate over other more important things. I’m hoping my little cousin won’t be like that and I am working with her to get involved in activities and to read things, that can put things in perspective and build her character so she doesn’t rely on just her looks. Nothing wrong in looking good, count yourself blessed if you are, but no need to place good looks over more important attributes – that’s the bad part.
And I’m not an expert on whining on not looking good – perhpas you are which is why you know their perspective. Recogizing that looks should not be considered very important, when attributes such as a good character and intelligence are much more important, is common sense to me.
2010: The Year of the Desi Avatar, PS was not calling you Prema. She was suggesting that the commenter “noway” who posted comment number 55 might be it. Cheerio.
“Recogizing that looks should not be considered very important, when attributes such as a good character and intelligence are much more important, is common sense to me.”
Of course other attributes are important as well – such as character and intelligence, but let’s face it, good looks can get your front foot in a lot of doors, opening up further oppurtunities.
Also, when choosing a mate – which one of us would say that looks “should not be considered very important”???
Looks ARE important. Other attributes are ALSO important.
As anyone else found Desi mythic parrallels in the move 2010? I mean, beyond just the Vaishnava tilak on the aliens?
Najeeb, Hannukah is celebrated by less than two percent of the US population, so it’s not inconceivable that Diwali will be observed by an increasingly significant number of people here before long, but I still don’t want Diwali homogenized into a Happy Holiday. I have no beef with Christmas, and I do go to Midnight Mass etc., and I think most of what you are enjoying is Yule, but most of all, I think there’s no good reason to make an all out effort to discredit the culture of Christmas.
This is HILARIOUS. Bear with it and read start to finish, LOL:
Desis as a generalization aren’t seen as “hot”, “cool” or “good looking” by americans. You are still delusional..
But don’t worry, so are the majority of posters here and in every other desi forum. Desis are like this onlee. 😉
I know. We have a tendency towards geekiness. However, when we are hot, we are REALLY hot. Some of the hottest looking people I’ve ever met have been Desi. But granted, I don’t run into those types everyday.
The hot looking Desis I do know however are very liked and popular and don’t have a bitter p.c. chip on their shoulders. That’s probably because they experience little to no negative feedback from those around them.
LandBeyond7Zs, I loved your post!
Ennis, I wish I’d seen your post on Christmas Day. The reason I didn’t is that my awesome, atheist in-laws believe in celebrating Christmas to the hilt. All their tree ornaments are tiny plastic dinosaurs, but the other traditions (food, presents, presents, food, singing) are intact. As an ex-convent school girl, I start off loving the carols, and the nativity scenes. But by the end of the season, “We Three Kings” and “The Little Drummer Boy” are the only songs I can tolerate (and I won’t even touch the date-rapey “Baby it’s Cold Outside”). My grinchiest moments, however, are reserved for the the tacky, color uncoordinated, massive energy-suck Christmas lights and the ugly inflatable lawn ornaments.
I don’t think the younger readers here get exactly what’s so boorish about blanketing everyone with “Merry Christmas.” And all the arguments about how minority celebrations mimic Christmas celebrations only serve to demonstrate that culture and religion are constantly mutating, so that point doesn’t go too far with me. I do know that my favorite weekend was the one with the belated Hanukkah, the early Solstice, and the Caroling parties; and I’d hate to lose that multi-culti sense of inclusivity and inventiveness. So when I see someone with a charming T-shirt that says “It’s Merry Christmas, you politically correct bastard” on the front and “Learn English or get out of my country” on the back, I smile sweetly and lie about how I don’t celebrate Christmas.
Happy Holidays refers generically to Happy Newton’s Birthday and Happy New Year. This was you don’t have to offend either the Newtonians or the Copernicans by wishing them them joy on the wrong occasion.
Honestly, except for the devotees of Malkin and O’Reilly, I’ve never heard of any American being offended by Happy Holidays. And while Hanukkah may only be celebrated by 2% of America, where I grew up it was close to half of the neighborhood, so I have always had very good reasons not to assume that people will be happy to be wished a Merry Christmas.
I will gladly wish my Christian friends a Merry Christmas, but I haven’t done anything more to commemorate the date than Chinese food and a movie in a decade, and wish to resist the political spin from those who believe that America is a Christian country, Christmas is a Christian holiday, and therefore all patriotic Americans should and must celebrate C H R I S T mas.
Big business will take all the money they can get in the fourth quarter, hence “Happy Holidays.†Right-wing pundits need to invent new inexpensive ways to justify their audience’s white hot rage, hence “War on Christmas.†That said, anyone offended by Merry Christmas should go out more and get some fresh air.
Mr.X are you DBD/IBD or ABD? In America, from Puritan Times, the celebration of Christmas has always been both political and contentious. You might think that’s weird, but resisting Christmas is as much an American tradition as celebrating it.
Isn’t Christmas a universal thing in Kerala, with nativity processions and such like? and while we are on the subject of which color is Christmas let’s listen to this beautiful choral piece Paranjoti Academy Chorus performs ‘Madhura Madhura’
Wow, Ennis. If starting a war on “Merry Christmas” is your idea of taking a stand on the idea that America is a Christian country, you will just be dismissed as a loon. And justifiably so. Christmas has become a generic cultural holiday at this point, and is only Christian in comparison to the Mardi Gras celebration at Orleans. Most rational people do not believe that the “Merry Christmas” greeting is an exhortation, invitation, or even a hint that the only true path to salvation is to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. The fact that you don’t enjoy the holiday season or celebrate it is just fine, but when the majority of people do, and wish you for the season in a very common way, the answer is to be graceful and wish them back, not increase your risk of cardiac arrest.
From even before the birth of America, taxes have been political and contentious, and resisting taxes has a storied history in America. That doesn’t mean the teabaggers are kind of ridic.
That doesn’t mean the teabaggers are kind of ridic.
Obviously, I meant to say: That doesn’t mean the teabaggers aren’t kind of ridic.
I think I understand Ennis’s frustrations. I don’t mind Christmas season, since it means I get a few weeks off from school. But, it seems like some people become overly religious to compensate for fears over the secularization of Christmas. As an example, my mom came home with a greeting card her co-workers gave her that said “For unto you is born this day, a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.” That just irks me, because they know full well that my mom is Hindu.
As much as I hate to do so, I have to come down on Ennis’ side on this one. Within the american context, participating or not-participating in christmas, prefering happy holidays over merry christmas and so on, is an important cultural issue with a long history.
So lets not all believe that its just some minor issue thats being over-analyzed or some eccentric choice on Ennis’ part.
Fox “News” has only been around since 1996.
Give us some examples of desi-americans who are viewed as “REALLY hot” by american standards. You are still too delusional in the usual desi ridiculously self-aggrandizing way. Humility is a virtue didn’t you know?
Prema, we are all ugly, poor, starve our children, and are generally devoid of any redeeming value. Now will you please leave us alone to wallow in the misery of our inhumanity? Why do you sully your exalted self by mingling with our lumpen selves?
Prema wrote:
You’re a fine one to talk. When Glenn Beck went on his arrogant anti-India tirade, you were cheering him on.
aiyyo wrote:
Aiyyo, there are some people who simply cannot feel good about themselves unless they put down others.
So many of my parents’ generation cry out for us American kids becoming too westernized and American, and losing our culture and religion.
This seems to be a major issue for people who come from the middle east/south asian countries who come to the west. I always love how immigrants parents love to talk about how bad western culture is and also many others parts of the world they talk about the negative influence of western culture. But if people in america started talking about the negative influence of eastern culture. Many here would started accusing those of racism.
Facepalm. Rahul, it’s not me that’s starting a war on Christmas. Try these links: history of the conflict, current context.
Here’s just one example of what you all think is entirely in my imagination:
That advertising change came about because a large number of Americans saw “Happy Holiday” as too secular, and insisted on Merry Christmas instead. In a different example, groups objecting to Target’s use of “Happy Holidays” circulated a petition that got almost three quarters of a million signatures on it. This stuff is all over Fox News. It’s one thing if you want to be ignorant of it, but to say that it’s entirely in my mind, or that I’m originating a war on Christmas when the term is clearly linked to the source and has been in wide circulation for 4 years now boggles the mind. You could try googling. Naw. It’s too easy just to make stuff up and tell me that I’m an idiot instead of clicking on the link or using google.
Thanks, I think, Al Beruni. Or maybe not. I think that’s the most backhanded compliment I’ve gotten yet. Am I such a pariah that it causes you pain to support my argument on a simple matter of fact?
Why our very own commenter, PS says this in comment # 68 http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/006059.html#comment266347
She’ll obviously have no problem getting dates and scoring cute boyfriends.
I agree that MANY Desi Americans could use EXTREME make-overs. However there are some really good looking Desis out there. You may not be one, nor I, but they are out there.
Thank for sharing,I like it
Why our very own commenter, PS says this in comment # 68
wth? Somehow things got misunderstood. PS, me, is not Prema.
Avatar (both of you guys), I am agreeing with you – in fact I find desis gorgeous and most desi girls I know don’t have problems getting noticed. You say some desis need extreme makeovers…lol…most nondesis I see need extreme makeovers. And for the last time, I do notice a trend, that a minority can be exoticized and I have often seen this with south asian culture. As I said, I have definitely see where it is cool to be desi, at the same time, some of my desi friends recounted experiences to me where they were teased for the food they brought to school, clothes they wore, etc. I guess it depends. But with popular embracing much that is desi, I see often where desi culture is considered cool. why is that even an issue? You’d have to be delusional to not notice 🙂
But Ennis, you just wrote that a bunch of people around you now get all aggressive about Happy Holidays (“Where I live in the Midwest, strangers answer your Happy Holidays with a Merry Christmas in such a way to make me want to declare war against it”). I assume they are offended by Happy Holidays. I agree with you 100% that what we mainly do in December is celebrate Yule. I think Desi Americans should do the Desi thing and celebrate Christmas and Hannukah and Kwanzaa in whatever way comes to hand!
Not really! The principle of secularization ensures that the criticism happens subtly.
@Amrita: I assume that those people are, in fact, devotees of O’Reilly and Malkin. @Alberuni: Thanks, I think.
Ennis do you think that non-sikh’s who live in Punjab have the right to complain about the celebration of Baisakhi and have people wish them happy holiday instead. After all the % of sikh population is just above 50% right now, as more non-sikhs from other part of India come there for work. I could only image the outrage of the Sikh community there if they had to cut down on there celebrations of Baisakhi to offend non sikhs.
And don’t even get started on being a non-muslim living in muslim country about Muslim holidays. There good chance if you complained in public, you would have to worry about you personel safety.