Inter-racial couples face some very real obstacles but does anybody think that this guy’s conservative parents are going to be fooled at all by this “desi makeover”?
If turnabout is fair play, should she ask him to go blond when he meets her parents?
I hope y’all have some funnier, far less lame “Meet the Parents” stories. I know that most of what we see on reality TV is super-lame and hyper-toolish behavior (a combination of the people who are selected and the type of actions encouraged and edited for), but this clip gives me the serious heebie-jeebies. HT to Chick Pea for almost making me lose my lunch.
WTF,
why are you so afraid of inter-racial marriage?
First of all, women s empowerment, abuse, and so forth that I brought up has to do with divorce rates (at least to me, in some degree) and someone stereotypically argued that Desis shouldn’t marry whites/Americans because it will end in divorce. That’s how I got there. Maybe if that girl in Bihar had people supporting her decision to leave an abusive relationship (i.e. DIVORCE), she wouldn’t have ended up strangled to death. Maybe if people in India supported a woman who left an abusive relationship, the divorce rate would be higher, but more women would be in a safer place. (Again, this has nothing to do with white or desi, it has to do with womens empowerment)
Inter-racial marriage has nothing to do with empowering women in various places in the world, or saving abused children, or any other such thing. It has to do with two people who love each other and want to be together. It doesn’t mean marrying within your own culture is bad, it just means that marrying outside your own culture isn’t bad either.
I think it’s funny that whenever I speak of anything regarding India, the first response is always “you are some privileged white women who probably went on vacation in India for two months, what do you know?” Do you question the credentials of an ABD when they make a comment regarding India? Do they need to prove how much they know about India too? Do you ask them how long they lived in India, if they have ever been to a village, if they know their mother tongue, or if they have studied Asian Studies?
And sorry if I get upset, but it is somewhat tiresome to constantly have to prove that I can also have a legitimate voice/opinion/ability just because I’m white. I did not grow up in a desi family in the US, but I’m sure if you stretch your mind a bit, you can imagine that even a white person could learn about/experience/live in another culture beside their own, and possibly even learn something!
So let me ask you again, WTF (I feel so weird typing that as your name..), what makes you so scared about two people who love each other from two different races getting married?
most hilarious sentence in this thread. wtf should get with shady.com and take their tour on the road. they will kill in gobichettipalayam.
enlightened people understand the dangers of miscegenation. racial purity MUST be maintained.
I am not scared at all of intermarriages. I could care less.
What I do have a problem with is the way you are defending your desire to marry Indians by a) denigrating anyone who disagrees with you and labeling them as narrow minded bigots b) insulting our women and men and ‘culture” by making us out to be women killing, children raping animals c) bringing in issues that are completely irrelevant to the issue of intermarriage.
And seeing how you fail at logic, I can see how you went from my comments to assuming that I am afraid of intermarriages.
You might considering stretching your own mind and NOT assuming that when our elders advise their children to marry within they are automatically bent on preserving a culture of wife beating child rapists. You might want to consider the fact that these unempowered darkies might have some insight into marriage that you don’t. It also might help you to tone down the annoying, self righteous, know-it-all attitude you have going on there.
Nicely done. Kudos, sir!
I don’t fault people for their personal choices assuming they aren’t born out of bigotry (I am talking about your friend based on what you’ve said, not you). I fault people who think that their personal choices are what others should adopt too.
i assume you are against most interregional marriages too for the same reason, since the parents usually end up talking in english to each other, or worse, hindi!
Why does every damn Sepia comment section turn into a statistics lesson?
Linzi, I agree with WTF. I mean, why can’t you just make humble, grounded statements like these:
WTF,
Please, twist my words a little more.
First of all, if people tell me I can’t marry the person I love because he is a different race, they ARE a bigot.
Secondly, I will criticize where criticism is due. That applies to my own culture or any other place. I don’t think patriotism is turning a blind eye on the faults/problems/injustices of America, nor do I think the only way to experience India is throw unquestioning admiration or hatred. Every country/culture/nation has it’s negative and positive aspects. Admitting them and addressing them are the ways to make our world (as a whole) a better place…
Lastly, I brought up issues irrelevant to intercultural marriage because the whole argument began as “don’t marry those bad bad whities, they don’t believe in real marriage and will divorce you”. Last I checked, divorce rates for specific countries don’t have anything to do with two people loving each other and wanting to commit to each other.
If people don’t want to talk about other topics, then don’t bring up other topics. And I think you were the one who brought up whether or not I have a legitimate voice due to by whiteness.
And you are also the one who is arguing that “shaadi.com” who may or may not be your elder, can make bigoted comments because elders apparently have the right to be hateful or spout stereotypes.
And please re-read my comments, because I don’t think I ever said a desi marrying a desi will result in wife-rapery and child abuse, or whatever else nonsense you typed.
“Maybe if that girl in Bihar had people supporting her decision to leave an abusive relationship (i.e. DIVORCE), she wouldn’t have ended up strangled to death.”
Rihanna – rich, black American, got herself beaten pretty badly by her rich black American boyfriend. One of the things that was discussed was how black American women asked what Rihanna did to provoke him.
“Maybe if that girl in Bihar had people supporting her decision to leave an abusive relationship (i.e. DIVORCE), she wouldn’t have ended up strangled to death.”
Rihanna – rich, black American, got herself beaten pretty badly by her rich black American boyfriend. One of the things that was discussed was how black American women asked what Rihanna did to provoke him.
Sameer— Talking about problems in one country doesn’t discount that they happen elsewhere.
I am the tenth or so to point it out. Staged. They’re doing it for a lark. She can’t hold the giggles in and he looks like he’s going to burst out as soon as the cameras stop rolling.. Put a mustache on the guy and he’d look like Peter Sellers in Indian face. Actually I think he probably occupied the tanning booth before she did. A “sun”tan makes the girl more acceptable to his parents? I think they’d seek straight through that subterfuge.
Linzi, I found those marriage stats you gave here on this site: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
“Divorce rates among Christian groups:
The slogan: “The family that prays together, stays together” is well known. There has been much anecdotal evidence that has led to “unsubstantiated claims that the divorce rate for Christians who attended church regularly, pray together or who meet other conditions is only 1 or 2 percent”. 8 Emphasis ours]. Dr. Tom Ellis, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Council on the Family said that for “…born-again Christian couples who marry…in the church after having received premarital counseling…and attend church regularly and pray daily together…” experience only 1 divorce out of nearly 39,000 marriages — or 0.00256 percent. 9
A recent study by the Barna Research Group throws extreme doubt on these estimates. Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 1 They had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The margin of error is ±2 percentage points. The survey found: bullet 11% of the adult population is currently divorced. bullet 25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime. bullet Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.
George Barna, president and founder of Barna Research Group, commented:
3,854 people from 48 states doesn’t seem large enough of a sample to extrapolate to a the US which now has approx 300 million people.
Sameer, I used that 11% stat as a sarcastic retort to another comment about using statistics. The divorce rate data I actually used more seriously was found here: http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml which is taken from here:http://www.census.gov/ and here:http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/
“Sameer— Talking about problems in one country doesn’t discount that they happen elsewhere.”
That is the point of what others have been trying to point out with regard to what you have written. You seem to have the white woman superior attitude towards brown women. Perhaps that was not your intention, but it is the way it came across. Brown people don’t need white people to enlighten us or empower us or liberate us from xyz problems. We can empower ourselves and fix our own problems, problems which I am glad to see that you recognize are universal.
Linzi, I am not sure what you are trying to say. On one hand you toss out stats to show the low divorce rate in America, “…if you look at the ones I take from a legitimate source, you can see that per 1,000 people, 3.6 are divorced. (This is of the entire population, not just married people)
So if you changed that to a percentage, 0.36% of Americans (of the ENTIRE population) are divorced. …”
Then you talk about how you think the low divorce rate in other countries is basically due to oppression of brown women. “…But I would also like to argue divorce rates in many countries (in my opinion) often seem to have to do with the rights of women. If a woman lives in a culture where she can get an education, get a job, and support herself and/or her children she would be less likely to stay in a bad relationship (such as emotionally or physically abusive, or one where the two people have become so different over time that they fight constantly) because she has the ability to make the decision “I’m not going to put up with this”. Conversely, if a woman is in a culture where women supporting themselves is blocked or not supported, she will have less opportunity to make decisions about her future with or without her husband….”
Either way White America is better.
Where is my superiority attitude?
Give me some direct quotes. Where did I write that I a better/smarter/more knowledgeable than any brown woman? Where did I say brown women are ignorant? Where did I say “I know better than you”? And, where WHERE did I ever say it’s my job to teach and liberate brown people with my own white superiority? I am waiting. Where are my quotes on this?
All I argued was this:
Divorce is not always bad. I should be able to love/marry someone of a difference race if I want to. Just because some Americans get divorced, doesn’t mean we all will. Just because I am white/brown/tan/olive/black/pink doesn’t mean you can assume what I know or do not know about something. India and the US both have problems that need to be fixed, and both have good points as well. As world citizens, we can’t change things if we ignore them.
I let it go the first time, but since it’s cropped back up–that 3.6/1000 is a yearly rate, not a measure of the “stock” of divorcees. Just think about it–there’ no way fewer than 1 out of 100 americans are divorced, is there? Common-sense can go a long way towards pointing out errors in interpreting statistics.
honestly the whole statistics point was that if we focus on statistics instead of people.. we will come out with all sorts of isses…
So say 50% of US marriages end in divorce. Wow! Americans must not care about marriage.
So say 53 % of Indian children are victims of child abuse (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6539027.stm). Wow! Indians really must not care about their children!
See my point?
sorry… sexual abuse specifically..
I wrote “Brown people don’t need WHITE PEOPLE to enlighten us or empower us or liberate us from xyz problems,” not Linzi literally wrote “I want to enlighten liberate” etc….Others have already brought it up the areas where you look holier than thou. Look at their posts again.
Like I wrote, it may not have been your intention but that is the way you came across especially with what things you quoted – stats (sarcastic and legit stats) and that Bihar story.
show me. if i look holier than thou, show me where. Enlighten me.
LinZi, you are one piece of work, coming onto a desi blog and pushing this. First you pushed lies (11% divorce rate, ha), and then you push irrelevant crap (abuse of women and children), and then you defend high divorce rate as the result of enlightened free western women, and then you insult those who disagree with you as bigots.
Another lie. You used that number in earnest until you were called on it. Sorry, these brown tards know how to read.
Everything you have posted has been dripping with it, and this being a classic line
Oh yeah, if White Woman thinks one way, of course anybody who feels otherwise is just a backward savage.
Blah, blah, blah, and the Iraq and such as.
—
You’re lucky this is a desi blog where you will be treated pretty lightly. Try pushing your sh*t on a Black women website and argue that Black women should marry White because Blacks have crime, are in prison, are druggies, etc. And then watch as your ass gets handed to you.
was it here:
“It wasn’t really my intention to say that desi culture is worse, there are many things about desi culture that are admirable. And if I was seriously trying to use those statistics, I would have provided a link… my point was more about randomly throwing out statistics to validate a sweeping claim (i.e. inter-racial marriages result in divorce, or if you marry an american it will end in divorce)… hence the over exageration…”
here:?
“I wasn’t talking about India specifically, more about education levels/ability to get a job, etc worldwide… it certainly varies in all places. And I know plenty of Indian women who I would NEVER describe as submissive. I don’t feel superior at all, in fact some of my best friends are Indian women who I admire deeply.”
or… here:?
“Secondly, I will criticize where criticism is due. That applies to my own culture or any other place. I don’t think patriotism is turning a blind eye on the faults/problems/injustices of America, nor do I think the only way to experience India is throw unquestioning admiration or hatred. Every country/culture/nation has it’s negative and positive aspects. Admitting them and addressing them are the ways to make our world (as a whole) a better place…”
@khan sahib – you wrote, “These people are acting.”
I agree it was staged but it was not obvious to me whether everyone was in on the joke or whether only the “boyfriend/girlfriend” were trying to get a reaction from the tanning salon folks (some people will go along with anything out of politeness, fear of confrontation, customer service, or who knows what). No matter what was going on the whole scenario fell flat – not funny, just stupid. If it was supposed to be comedy then I say fire the writers. 🙂
(cont post 65)
Linzi is the low divorce rate (the legit one you mentioned), ” 0.36% of Americans (of the ENTIRE population) are divorced. …” due to American women (as you wrote about other countries and cultures) lacking rights, inabiliity to get an education, a job, support herself and/or children, and as a result stay in a bad relationship (one that is emotionally or physically abusive, or where the two people have become so different over time that they fight constantly). Is that low .36% because American women are unable to make the decision “I’m not going to put up with this.” Is it because America women live in a culture where women supporting themeselves is blocked or not supported and thus have less opportunity to make decisions about their future with or without her American husband?
Wtf, WTF? Kindly refer to the bottom of comment number 26:
“(To those of you who are not shaadi.com.. please excuse my extensive sarcastic remarks)”
I should be able to love or marry someone of another race if I want to? Of course, I was ASSUMING that you would understand that said person, would of course WANT to love me back. (Which, he does, by the way).
And since I am a white woman, I am not allowed to be concerned, for example,nonwhite people who might be ill, victims of abuse, or sexual harassment? I’m only supposed to care based on my skin tone, and ignore anything else going on in the world?
By the way, Iraq and blah blah blah… I don’t support Iraq, nor do I support blah blah blah. In fact, most blah blah blah that the US does, goes far to mess up most of the world for their own greedy gain then help people…I don’t consider myself some special convoy of American BS. Sorry to disappoint.
I think your main problem is you can’t stand having a white person say anything negative about India, even though you probably do among your Indian friends all the time. How dare I come on a desi blog and be interested and invested in somthing! HA-rumphf! Should I go back with my own kind, then?
“As world citizens, we can’t change things if we ignore them.”
People are kinda tired of white people trying to change things in other parts of the world. I don’t know who is worse Christian zealots trying to convert the dark heathen, or Liberals and Feminists zealots trying to convert the dark heathen. Both types think they are so right. Like I said before Brown PEOPLE don’t need White PEOPLE. We can work on and solve our own problems. Brown people are aware of our problems. Hence your Bihar story was totally unnecessary on many levels. White people’s interference more often than not has been a source of problem for Brown people, and Black people, and Yellow people and Red people.
“(cont post 65)
Linzi is the low divorce rate (the legit one you mentioned), ” 0.36% of Americans (of the ENTIRE population) are divorced. …” due to American women (as you wrote about other countries and cultures) lacking rights, inabiliity to get an education, a job, support herself and/or children, and as a result stay in a bad relationship (one that is emotionally or physically abusive, or where the two people have become so different over time that they fight constantly). Is that low .36% because American women are unable to make the decision “I’m not going to put up with this.” Is it because America women live in a culture where women supporting themeselves is blocked or not supported and thus have less opportunity to make decisions about their future with or without her American husband? “
I never said it was low, Sameer. I just stated what the statistics said It’s technically the highest in the world (Oh my! See, you have to take the rate of divorce and compare it to the rate of marriage…. In fact, if you would like, I can even say all sorts of PROBLEMS that exist in America…
(I said something bad about my own country! How dare I?).
And my comment about women empowerment was a point.. not that ALL divorces are due to abuse, but rather that divorce is not ALWAYS bad… if it is an option for someone being abused, should that person be condemned for breaking their wedding vows? Everyone is so easy to assume everything I say is India=Bad American=Wonderful.
Well that’s not what I meant at all. Can we just clear that up now? I don’t think India=Bad American=Good. I don’t think brown=bad and white=good.
In fact, I don’t think Divorce=bad and staying married=good OR staying married=bad divorce=good.
I don’t think all american women=liberated and free and all indian women=unempowered and backward or vice versa.
How many times have I come on sepiamutiny? And generally, I get the same-old same-old “You’re not desi, you are not allowed to have an opinion or thought”
My my my white liberals get so miffed when people of color don’t flatter them, and tell them we don’t need your help. We are aware of of problems thank you very much, we are perfectly capable of solving them. Thanks for your concern, but we can handle it ourselves.
“Like I said before Brown PEOPLE don’t need White PEOPLE.”
that’s true… let’s fix that sentence
“people need people”
better?
Linzi, you can have your opinion or thought. But so can we.
my my my, Sameer gets so miffed when people want to help people.
Why do you have to make it all about color, Sameer?
Can’t we just do nice things for others because we are people, not because of skin tone?
so Sameer, what have you been doing to address the problems and concerns of your people? I’m very curious. You sound like you must be very active in the community.
No, my main problem is with self righteous White women lecturing Indians about child abuse and dowry deaths and oppression of women during a discussion about interracial marriages and divorce rates. Also, telling me to go read up on dowry deaths is condescending. Just because you didn’t know about dowry deaths until you went to India or until you took a women’s studies course doesn’t mean the rest of us are as ignorant.
Go throw your tantrums elsewhere. Your “I wanna so I must get” spoilt princess routine is what’s annoying.
Sure, you have a right to be concerned. But no, you don’t have the right to use that (false) concern to bash anyone who has differing opinions.
If by your “kind” you mean utterly full of herself while failing at logic, then yes, go back to your own kind.
Sigh.
Sameer, or anybody for that matter, does NOT have to explain what he does or doesn’t do for his people.
Why don’t you list all that you have done for your people, sweetheart?
Is this dipshit Pardesi Gori, by any chance? Or are there clones of her running around India trying to save the brown savages.
“”Like I said before Brown PEOPLE don’t need White PEOPLE.”
that’s true… let’s fix that sentence
“people need people”
better?”
This is better: In general, human being need human being, but BROWN PEOPLE DO NOT NEED WHITE PEOPLE TO HELP US. Black people don’t need white people to save them, Yellow people don’t need white people, Red people don’t White people. Thanks but no thanks. We people of color are capable of being aware of our problems and working one them.
You don’t seem to realize white racists (AND I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE A RACIST) used to treat people of color like grown children, unable to really help themselves. Liberals don’t realize they tend to do the same thing even when they are trying to be this, people of the world. Racists brought up and exaggerated all the problems among people of color, and liberals in their quest not to be like racists and help people of color also tend to bring up in disproportion the problems among people of color and present it in a way that doesn’t show the same problems among white populations. That is why you saw many desi’s bring up the same problems in the West among non-desis.
Linzi, you make me prefer white racists. At least they know they look down up us and we know it too. You have no idea why you got the reaction you did. You brought up all these extreme statistics and stories of abuse, and you think you’re being fair and balanced and a citizen of the world.
I’ve just been reading along. But LinZi is not Pardesi Gori…I know, in part because I spent too much time on a different blog arguing with PG (in her latest incarnation–she doesn’t go by that handle these days) last night–because she was talking about how awful Indian men are and why white women should NOT get involved with/marry them. Argh.
Sameer, WTF, anyone else…
I would like to apologize if I have offended you. Obviously my whole discussion point I was trying to make in the beginning didn’t come off correctly, and led to a bunch of random tangents that also didn’t help my argument.
Honestly, if you got to know me (Not from these posts where I have become more and more frustrated and blabbering) you would know that I am not some racist or neo-colonialist. (Nor am I pardesi gori, thank god!)
I’m really sorry if this conversation went the wrong way, I think the whole thing started because of my gut reaction to someone saying that my boyfriend of two years and I should not get married because I am white and hence we will be divorced. This is very personal for me, as some people in India have voiced this opinion to him, which makes things unnecessarily stressful for both of us. I think you can understand why I might feel defensive or stressed out hearing those kinds of comments.
Once people in India who say those sorts of things get to know me, I get comments like “oh, you’re not like other americans” or “wow, you’re practically an Indian” rather than people wanting to admit that maybe some stereotypes or assumptions about americans are not always right.
At the same time, it also frustrates me, that on this website I can’t voice my opinion without getting “but you’re white, what to do you know?” expressed at some point. I would never say that to an Indian person when discussing the U.S., maybe I will disagree with them on some point, but I won’t invalidate their point by lack of American citizenship. It’s not that I think I am right all the time, or that my opinion is better, in fact, I love learning new things through discussion. I just don’t want to be invalidated purely based on my background… invalidate me if I get my facts wrong, not based on where I come from… I’m sure you would want people to do the same for you.
I am American of Indian descent, Linzi. I hear from Europeans when I visit how I am not like other Americans because I actually know something. That offends me. I say America is filled with many races from around the world, very knowledgeable on many fronts, and don’t let George Bush shape your attitude about America 😉 .
The decision for you and bf to marry is between the two of you. No one can say about the future of your marriage, how long it will last.
Feel free to share you opinion, but expect that others will as well.
“I just don’t want to be invalidated purely based on my background… invalidate me if I get my facts wrong, not based on where I come from… I’m sure you would want people to do the same for you.”
FYI, you weren’t invalidated purely based on your background on this post. It was what you wrote.
45 WTF
Why not parental neglect? It is not the like the dad is cooking for the children either. If the dad understands that his kids are eating a diet devoid of nutrition, he is equally culpable. And what characteristics make this woman a feminist? Do you even know what the word ‘feminism’ means? Certainly, the best moms I know are ardent feminists. And the family you’re talking about — could it be that mom is the primary breadwinner and dad is not keeping up his end of the bargain (ie primary caregiver)?
Well, my marriage isn’t between just the two of us, it involves two families as well, and both of those families need to be accepting and supportive of the marriage (in my opinion).
This is where my frustration comes in, as I have to battle against all sorts of stereotypes (not just because I am not Indian, or not Hindu) because I am American specifically… most specifically the “divorce” thing. Especially frustrating because I identify to little with America in general…
Sameer, can you tell me what I wrote that is wrong then please, because that was not quite clear to me.
I’m sorry if bringing up child abuse offended you.. I used that example because, since the last research I did was on childrens rights in India, it was the first statistic that came to mind to use as an example of why statistics shouldn’t be used to paint a picture of “everyone” doing “one thing”. For example, 53% of children does seem like an insanely high amount, but I don’t think anyone would forgive me if I used that statistic to say “Don’t marry an Indian because they will abuse your child”. My whole point was, don’t assume or stereotype… using shocking statistics can be sensationalidt, but can they tell the whole story of what is happening on ‘the ground”?