“Excuse me! Can I ask you a question?” the black 40-ish year old man said with a cell phone in his right hand as I walked out of Samosa House in Venice. It was closing time, and I had run in to grab a late night meal. He had been hitting on me earlier when I had first walked to the counter – he said he liked my red heels and dress, asked if I worked in an office, wondered what Indian food he should order. I had responded nicely yet curtly, and he had disappeared as I ordered my food to go. It seemed like he hadn’t ventured far, and was on the phone hovering around the entrance.
“Sure…” I responded hesitantly. The old me would have brushed him off, but I’ve been trying to be nicer this past year.
“Back when I lived in D.C. I always wondered this,” he answered deadpan, phone still open in hand. He didn’t hang up on his call. “What is the difference between Indian and Cherokee Indian?”
I looked at him to see if he was kidding. His expression was not kidding. “Well… uh…” I hesitated. “Cherokee Indians are indigenous to here, to America. And Indians … are from India.” I looked at him and he still looked confused. “You know India? As in the country around the world? On Asia, the continent?”
“Then why are they both called ‘Indian’?”
I bit my lip as I tried to figure out how to best answer his questions. Could he really not know the difference? Slowly, I said, “Well, when Christopher Columbus landed in America, he saw brown people and thought he had landed in India instead. He called the brown people he saw Indian. So it was an accident.”
“Brown people? Christopher Columbus?”
“Look. I’m late. My food is getting cold. I have to go.” I walked quickly to my car shaking my head exasperatedly, hoping he wasn’t following. I realized that there was no point in breaking it down for a man that needed 4th grade educating. And try as I might to be nice to every guy that approaches me… there’s a point where you just have to walk away.
+++
“You know, that’s a myth,” a friend said when I recounted the story to him. He was an activist for the indigenous community, and if anyone should know, I figured it would be him. “The word India wasn’t even around back in 1492. Research shows that the term Indian comes from when Columbus landed he referred to them as ‘una geste in Dios’ or in other words ‘a people of God.'”
Really? Could I have told the told the man at the Samosa House wrong? I did a little digging. First question, what was India called in 1492?
The name, derived from the Indus River (from Sanskrit sindhu, “a river”), goes back to antiquity. Alexander the Great referred to the Indus (Indos), and to the region’s inhabitants as Indikoi, as early as the third century B.C. The name passed from Greek into Latin and thence into other European languages, the earliest citation in English being in 893 A.D. by King Alfred the Great. At the time of Columbus’s voyage, “India” or “the Indias/Indies” was often used to refer to all of south and east Asia. Columbus carried with him a passport from Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain, written in Latin and dispatching him “toward the regions of India” (ab partes Indie) on their behalf. Martin Beheim‘s globe of 1492, which predated the voyage, clearly labels the region as “Indie.” “Hindustan,” also derived from the Indus River, is a much later term, not appearing in English until 1665. In any case, in Spanish that name is not Hindustan but Indostan.[straightdope]
So India was called India or something similar in 1492, when Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Wiki even has a list of names for India pre-1500s. So that part is plausible. Second question then is, what did Columbus write home about the indigenous community?
[Columbus] wrote a letter, in Spanish, detailing his discoveries while off the Azores during his homeward voyage…The original manuscript has not survived, but a printed copy made shortly after its receipt has. In the first paragraph Columbus says “In 33 days I passed from the Canary Islands to the Indies” (en 33 dÃas pasé de las islas de Canaria a las Indias). His first reference to the inhabitants comes in the second paragraph: “To the first [island] which I found I gave the name San Salvador . . . the Indians call it GuanahanÔ (A la primera que yo hallé puse nombre San Salvador . . . los Indios la llaman GuanahanÃ). In all he makes six references to India or the Indies, and four to Indios. Nowhere in the letter does he use a phrase resembling una gente in Dios. [straightdope]
So, I was right when I told the guy that hit on me that Columbus called Native Americans Indians because he had thought he had landed in India. Myth demystified. If anyone ever hits on me with that line again, I know exactly how to answer now. And I’ll have the link to the original letter (English, Latin, and Spanish) to prove it.
+++
I’m interested in hearing (…ok, reading in the comments) the pick-up lines that our Sepia Mutiny readers have received over the years. Not the generic pick up lines, but those that involved some intersection of racialization absurdity such as the one I narrated above. For instance, last summer at the Santa Monica Pier, this black guy walked by and said, “You Indian? Indian is close to nigger…” and this other time at a mall in Virgina a posse of teenage boys said, “Let be your Osama, baby.” Ladies, I want to hear your stories. What words have been used on you?
It’s all good. Makes me wish I was back in the US–in LA.
I wish there were more women posting than men on this subject – I think some of the guys are missing the point – this isn’t about ‘hey ladies, you’re attractive and these guys just want to score with you and they’re using the quickest, easiest method’ – it’s about being completely labeled, judged, exotified, etc. To have someone show interest in you only because of race / skin color (ie yellow fever) is a form of objectification and would make anyone feel like they are less than the sum of their life experience. This is my take on it (as a guy).
“Hey chinadoll/ling ling, I’ve never been to shangri-la…. wanna take me there?” VOMIT.
I also have gotten variations of geisha….. ching chong ching chong. And other more disgustingly explicit comments.
Condition of going to school with a bunch of white frat boys in Santa Barbara.
Now a condition of living as an Asian woman in a predominantly Black city….
I also feel like Black men, just as White men can be the worst offenders of exotifying Asian women….
But isn’t that the problem? That the first thing that comes in their mind are ignorant and racist? We don’t let regular racist comments slide by when confronted with them on the streets – why should Ladies accept it because the guy wants to get in our pants? It doesn’t make it better, because he wants to sexualize us up instead of beating us down.
Like I said in the post earlier – where are the Ladies at? I want to hear about YOUR experiences. Not about how men like SBF think it should be ok for us to be approached by ignant pick up lines.
Yep. And that’s what pick up lines and hooking up are all about – objectification. In other words – sex only.
I’m not saying its right. I’m just saying that’s what it is and to expect more is naive.
To avoid it one could wear a big fat fake diamond on their ring finger and that might help ward off the hounds. But then again, it would probably attract those who like a real challenge.
I think the gist of it is that the world is filled with assholes and it always will be. It’s nothing personal. If the assholes aren’t commenting on your culture they will comment on your rack or whatever else comes to mind. Birds have to fly. Fish have to swim. Random skeeves on the street have to act like idiots. It’s just a fact of life.
Smack them over the head with an umbrella if it makes you feel better. They’ll have it coming and it can be very therapeutic!
Ok… I definitely agree…
Reading just the recent posts….
I have had a guy ask me what was the kinkiest thing I ever done and when he told me his, it was going oral on an Asian woman. Now WTF does that mean??
Supposedly our vaginas are different because they’re horizontal…. shocking news to me.
I mean, when stupidass comments come at me and my women of color friends like that, they are usually by men who are too busy playing with the head in their pants instead of using the one on his neck.
One away to avoid “the game” is to take yourself out of it (both women and men) and settling down into a safe, arranged marriage. I think thats one of the benefits of such an arrangement. One limits their chances of this kind of crap happening to them. And for the guys, it limits their chances of acting like jerks.
If Taz actually read “Sepia Mutiny” she would have been schooled on the subject of why Native Americans are called “Indians”.
In the comments section under post called “Beating a Brazillian Path to India”
“I’ve wondered the exact same thing. If it’s based on a mistake, why do people still call them “Indians”?
It is tradition to judge.
Supposedly our vaginas are different because they’re horizontal…
disgusting people who would say things like this to you; One of my SE Asian friends was telling me such things were said to her…wow, how terrible that these people think it’s okay to say such things.
If you read her comment carefully, he did not say that to her. She added that in, assuming that that is what he was thinking.
Question: has anyone hear ever had the experience of some dude walk past you and say, “I want to f*ck you?”
Damn SBF – you’d make a great Italian judge, seriously.
The logic is that unless people get (arranged) married, they are lecherous and you should expect the least from people, especially horny guys (unless you’re being sarcastic / ironic). Objectification is tearing down someone’s individuality and self worth – whether it is sexual or racial – it still isn’t excused because an ignorant guy is trying to score with you.
Question: has anyone hear ever had the experience of some dude walk past you and say, “I want to f*ck you?”
This happened to a guy I know…by a girl lololol.
Once from an West African—-you’ve never been with a black man before? do you want to see a black serpent?
I’ve been hit upon from all sorts, from all countries. These days, I like the non-Americans best. They whistle, they honk, they stop their cars in the middle of traffic and they hold your hand and stare into your eyes even before they know your name. When you get to be my age, it’s all a compliment.
My recent best experience was this Punjabi guy from Birmingham next to me on the plane. Soon after he got on he put his hand around me and wanted to kiss me. And this was before he got drunk. I’ve worked my whole life to evade this sort of low life. But here he was and well, I was curious about these self-identified big, strong, fair Jatt Punjabi scythians. I have to say I enjoyed every minute of the trip and I’m still chuckling a week later. Plus we talked about Bolly, my new passion. He won’t be reading this–I don’t think he can read.
No. What I meant was, when you are taken off the market in any obvious way (and I recommend desis to wear signifiers of that in whatever country they are in, just like western women often wear big red bindis and sometimes even sindhur, sutra and bangles in Desh to signify in that culture that they are off the market, or at least pretending to be to ward off the kind of behavious we are discussing here)… anyway, if one is off the market or wears observable signifiers of the same, then that would probably lessen these type of bullsh*t experiences.
I’m not saying that unless one is not married then they are lecherous. Don’t know where you got that idea from. But yeah, sometimes its best to expect the worst out of people and then be pleasantly surprised when they DON’T live down to your expectations.
Its silly to hold guys who are obviously trying to hook up with you to some type of high standard of behaviour and intellectual, nuanced thinking.
most of the pick-up lines I have consist of being compared to Pocahontas lol . When I was in Italy tho this guy like chased me down screaming Latika (from slumdog) and then precedded to say that all brown women look alike =/ .
As for the rest of the post, I
ve stayed in Saskatchewan and Toronto so Ive never been asked what`s the difference between the two. What I find incredibly strange though is that most of the white canadians there seem to be more accpeting/kinder towards Indians than the Native Americans which to me is incredibly weird.LOL x 23948239048290 at the sideways vagina comment .
Its silly to hold guys who are obviously trying to hook up with you to some type of high standard of behaviour and intellectual, nuanced thinking.
My bf hit on me at a party and he did it in a way that engaged me in a conversation…in fact I wasn’t sure if he was hitting on me or just engaging in a conversation. I thought he was lovely and that was also b/c of what he said. Much later he told me he really was only thinking about hooking up with me; but what do you know, it developed into something else. I think saying something intelligent and respectfuul is a much more effective way to hit on someone and get you a better reaction, whether it’s just to hook up or if you are looking for something more long term.
Once an Eritrean, after happening to see me in sari for an event I was going to from work, said to me for the next few days, “So when are you going to where that sari for me, eh?” — I started avoiding him after that and he got the message.
PS, Are you worried that you’re boyfriend might still be just trying to hook up with other women now? Isn’t that those who are into one night hook ups are a certain “type”?
Mjeh… it’s hard for me to be offended by honest ignorance. Honest ignorance thats also derogatory is a different matter, but not knowing where India is on a map or what languages Indians speak is hardly derogatory.
Isn’t that those who are into one night hook ups are a certain “type”?
Oh that’s not true at all. Most people go through periods in their lives. At one time a hook up is what you need, then things might change b/c of who you meet. I’ve gone through a period where all I wanted to do was hook up, and I’ve completely changed now.
Why do you think it’s one or the other? Sometime you just want one thing, but you realize you want something different later.
One of our Canadian Mallu friends was chatting on his cellphone in the bus, and afterwards a young black guy came up to him and talked to him in Malayalam! Our friend almost had a heart attack! Turns out the black guy was a recent immigrant from one of those places in Africa where mallus go to teach, and he picked up Malayalam from his school teachers. After that, our friend stopped making nasty comments watching black guys’ pants!
Why do I always get hit on by women I am not interested in at all? Is it a common phenomenon or is it just me?
Well, God knows, I’ve whined about this issue for years….sigh
I hate pick-up lines with a vengeance. And, unfortunately, have been the recipient of them since I was very young. I’ve heard the “Are you half-Asian?”….the “Ohhh…you remind me of Kristen Kreuk…I love Asian girls..” …”Asian girls are so submissive”…and all the other typical lines South-Asians typically get. The Kama Sutra line, the being mistaken for other exotic nationalities, etc. etc. And then there are the lines that “exoticize” my presumed religion.
No, it’s not flattering.
I even tried to pretend that I was married once, just to get out of it. The guy laughed and said that I looked twelve and I must be lying. (Why would a guy hit on a girl who looks twelve in the first place? Child molester, do you think? I bet you he had tons of child porn at his house.)
That’s why so many women like arranged marriages.
I was once with a British Asian guy, who was speaking to me and another white American.. An American girl heard him speak to us and came over and said to him ” Gee, I didn’t know they had reservations in England”..not so much as a pick up line, as embarassmnet of how stupid Americans are..he chose not to respond
And that was kind of my point here
But I’m willing to be that many women who have arranged (or other kinds of) marriages don’t get “hit on” all that much, if ever. I think being hit on requires the women to be at least moderately attractive and not so “homely” looking.
And I’ll wager that Lupus above is a good looking guy if he gets “hit on” regularly by women, as well.
So what kind of pick up lines do you respond to Taz, would love to know as I go to samosa house quite often and would like to be prepared 😀
Big IF there! 🙂
I think Manju is more goodlooking. Just by his comments, he has to be.
So, looks like exactly what Taz didn’t want has happened. Lots and lots of chatter from the menz and some drowning out of what the XXs are saying.
It’s a curse, I tell you.
I’ll wager that solitary Lupus is attracted to all these women and mistakes their friendliness with reciprocity.. This is a common phenomena and one that a women has no antidote for. Her only recourse is to be rude again and again and again.
‘ll wager that solitary Lupus is attracted to all these women and mistakes their friendliness with reciprocity Jagat, I wish it was so simple. The last instance nearly bordered on sexual harassment. The lady kept asking me blatantly to be her toy boy. When I tried to politely change the topic, got very offended and started asking “what is it? am I too old for you?”
:: high fives my_dog_jagat::!!!! OMG, totally! 🙂
Q: Are you in software?
A: Nope, I’m in underwear.
Peace reigns for the rest of the day
Demondoll, Let me be candid here.
A few years ago, after a relationship failure, I decided to never again ask a woman out or hit on one or even remotely show any romantic interest. That possibly explains the solitarius bit. It is very easy for Indian men to do this with the safety net of arranged marriage. Of course it requires a strong will and balls of steel. You get used to it, specially if you have a busy career that can do with all your time and attention. Unlike many deluded unrequited lovers, I have no desire for relationships, and I don’t look for any clues in the behavior of women (Mistaking “friendliness for reciprocity”. The fact is that in this period,having been asked out a few times, and been hit on by middle aged single mothers, I wanted to highlight the point that annoyance at unsolicited romantic advances is not solely the preserve of women.
I will support that. Though I find such advances more discomforting than annoying. I also get hit on by gays, which is even more discomforting. And I am not even goodlooking! 🙂
I think the way I look at people has something to do with it. I have an “examining look” when meeting new people, I suspect it creeps out most, but some mistake it for romantic interest. Either way, it is interesting when the effect is subtle. But once it moves to advance/avoidance, things get kinda problematic.
I am trying to switch off that look, but it doesn’t seem to work. It used to be turned on more abroad, probably some kind of of flight/flee response in a new environment. But now I find that it has taken over, and happens in India too!
You will do well as a doctor. Do you have a good bedside manner 😉
Their samosas suck, 1.50 for a small triangle? If it is samosas you want, try India sweets and spices in Venice Blvd. The food is good in both places.
what’s the sound of one hand… um never mind.
ve keed guavalupus. they arent all bad. some are soft and sort of yummy too, especially the pineal body.
Bery interesting, Taz asked to compile a list of pick lines.
What has thread turned into: Woe list why people questioned my Amreekaness, Surprise, Surprise.
Well, Taz, it is possible the guy you meet is a NASA scientist, but was acting dumb as a pick up. It is very likely.
Once in a while, Pardesi Gori (SBF in this incarnation) has a point, pick up line is all about objectification.
Well, either way…its actually my humility that makes me so attractive.
is that a roll of rupees in your pocket or are you just glad to see me
I’m sure Taz must be getting plenty of horror-stories about Objectification/Exotification/Racialization in her mailbox by now. I would send in my own, but it would be too long. What people don’t realize is that these types of behaviors can have real, devastating, and long-lasting effects on the recipients. Just because these types of behaviors are commonplace and frequent does not mean that they are right, and we should not consider them acceptable. I am, of course, referring to the racist, soul-killing, objectifying lines that Taz talked about in her post.
If only people could see other people as human beings and not objects, the world would be a better place. We could all benefit from a more spiritually aware world in which men and women treat each other as God would want us to.
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
(Sorry for getting religious, but sometimes I think we need a reminder.)
WTF? I’m gay and hot (well, kinda) and I rarely get hit on by other guys. Not fair.
So, I was right when I told the guy that hit on me that Columbus called Native Americans Indians because he had thought he had landed in India. Myth demystified. If anyone ever hits on me with that line again, I know exactly how to answer now. And I’ll have the link to the original letter (English, Latin, and Spanish) to prove it.
Even if it is John Abraham. Or maybe, he is more nuanced, maybe not. Or it matters at all, if you are good-looking
The only pick-up line I’ve heard, here in the midwest is: “You look lost. Let Jesus be your savior”…. and quite a few times too !!
Forget pickup lines, they’re hogwash.
There are only these things to keep in mind:
Approach only if there’s some kind of indication she’s willing to respond. She’s a human being, with a life, and a reason, you need to feel that.
Blank your mind out from all the rejections you got in the past, focus only on NOW. what you’re experiencing at THIS MOMENT. if you’re thinking about screwing her brains out, then acknowledge that thought. You’re being truthful to your thoughts AT THE MOMENT.
When you’re talking to her, create a third wall. envision yourself watching a movie, and you and her are the scene. This lets you realize that whatever happens, she frowns, she looks away, she gives you a pity giggle, she rolls her eyes, is part her experience, and history, and has very little to do with you. She’s a person with a history of experiences, THATs whats driving her reaction.. not you.., you’re maybe 5% at most.
Breathe into your gut. You’re here for a reason, and don’t forget that. Connect with that deep sense of self and there’s nothing she can do or wont do that’ll phase you. Society forces us to approach the women we like.. and come up with stupid strategies like “pickup lines” – It’s good sometimes, and it sucks ass other times. But it just is. acknowledge the pressure, but don’t label it.
I have a formerly-confirmed-Catholic-now-uninterested friend who wears a USB flash drive on a crucifix around her neck. She’s fond of holding it up and proclaiming “Jesus saves…my data!”.
I have been asked many times which country r u from, I had taken sociology class back in 2006 and there was this teacher preciado, well versed in american culture, what a teacher, anyhow she says ” White people would ask me or people of brown where are u from” and i would say i am from here, no i mean your parents, oh parents r also from america, where were u born i mean, well i was born in us, no i mean where were u raised, i was raised in west coast, after all this they will ask what r your roots, and after all this she asked why, the white man says cuz u have an accent, and then i would reply thanks even u have one. i learnt from her and thast what i do for most of them unless u know the person is asking genuinely, another indication of racial mentality, they will say i was asking not because i am biased or racist or something of that sort to divert yr mind from framing white man/women racist. Thats us society, worst is when some brown person asks, once a phillipino asked and i said from manila. There is no way to change entire mind set unless u own cable.