It used to be that Indian men working in America, whether 
citizens, permanent residents or H-1B holders, could go to India and have their pick of a bride. They were considered good catches, the type of fish you don’t throw back in the lake. Not anymore, apparently, according to Shefali Anand of the Wall Street Journal.
Concerned about the flagging U.S. economy, parents of brides are reluctant to betroth their daughters to someone whose job may evaporate. Rahul Tamraker, 32, a consultant in Chicago, learned this firsthand during his fruitless bride search in India. Potential in-laws were worried that “consultant” was another way of saying “unemployed.” One parent wanted to see Tamraker’s income tax return, paying heed to the age-old matchmaking principle: “Good income, good outcome.” Tamraker declined and the marriage talks fizzled.
Poor guy. He’s got a hefty salary, but no bride. Which may be better, of course, than having a hefty bride, but no salary.
Then there’s Vikas Marwaha, a software enginer who’s only 27 and earning more than 80 grand a year.
During a two-week wife-hunting trip to India in December, Mr. Marwaha interviewed 20 potential brides in 10 days. He says several parents asked him, “How has the recession impacted your job?” Mr. Marwaha says he assured them he hadn’t been affected at all, but still he returned to the U.S. brideless. [Link]
Indian engineer: “I went to India for some wife-hunting last month. What did you do?”
American engineer: “I went to Indiana for some deer-hunting.”
Indian: “Really? Did you get one?”
American: “Yes, I got one and mounted it. What about you?”
Indian: “No, I didn’t come close to doing any mounting whatsoever.”
Anisha Seth, 26, has been looking for a groom for two years now. But she feels “jittery” about considering nonresident Indians as possible options. …
Ms. Seth says that if she were to move to the U.S. or to another developed country, she might not get a job quickly and would have to be dependent on her husband for a while. While she’s open to the idea of giving up her independence, she worries that given the state of the U.S. economy, a groom based in America might not be earning enough to support her. For instance, Ms. Seth says she likes nice clothes and would like to have a flat-screen TV. [Link]
American Engineer: “I heard you went to India on another wife-hunting trip. Did you get one?”
Indian Engineer: “Yes, I finally got one.”
American (smiles and winks): “So there’s been some mounting?”
Indian: “Yes, there’s been some mounting. I just mounted a flat-screen TV on the wall.”
Rob #1,
Are you for real, I hope that your comment is tongue in cheek. For flat screen TVs, they are as cheap as they are here in the states.
This having to put one’s life on hold is yet just another reason amongst many that Indian brides should demand hefty dowry from their prospective in-laws.
what I think is ironic is that the struggles that our parents made-when they came to this country with NO money and I’m quite certain it was many years before my mom could buy nice clothes is not something people can even imagine anymore. What happened to I really believe in and love that person so I will do what I need to to get through this with them….because life is short but also very long right? And today’s bump is just that….a bump in the road…….
You’re kidding right? Arranged marriage was never about love. It was always about practicality and convenience and getting ahead and money and, and, and, anything but love.
So this current attitude is totally in line with the concept and purpose of arranged marriage.
There are different types of love. Fraternal, romantic, erotic, platonic, and so on. An arranged marriage might ignore it on some dimensions and help along others. Dating, likewise, makes the mix different in other ways.
You are right Ghar Jamai I stand corrected on that….I guess what I meant to say is that eventually you will love that person or at least that is the person that you see yourself building a life with and growing old with. I see my parents who knew eachother 25 days before getting married….my father was one of the first immigrants in 1961 who went back to India to get married with the one month vacation he got from his low paying engineering job on the south side of Chicago that he had at the time….and at the end of this month they will be celebrating their 40th wedding anniversary. They are the most ying and yang couple I have ever seen in my life-one absolutly can NOT exist without the other. They may have a nice house and a fancy car now, but when they first got married that was certainly not the case-and I know their story is far from unique. So I guess my point is, why are things so different now…my mother was working in Mumbai when she got married and grew up in a very wealthy family-but she took a leap of faith…and sometimes I think that is what we all need to do.
I’m not arguing for dating and falling in love over arranged marriage, Yoga Fire. I’m just pointing out the irony that Crest thinks that desi parents and grand-parents who migrated to the USA years ago with little to no money or contacts were doing so because they were in love, when clearly most of those unions were arranged and probably all of them, arranged or not, involved the request (demand) for and acceptance of a HEFTY DOWRY from the bride’s family.
That true love may or may not have blossomed between the giver and receiver of dowry after the dowry was given and received is another matter. I really hope for their sake and the sake of their offspring that it did.
PS: Now that the tables are turning and brides and their parents are demanding a certain (high) income level from grooms, I can’t help but see it has “just desserts” after the centuries long, heck, milleniums long tradition of the groom and his parents sizing the bride up according to how much income (dowry) her family can provide for them.
I mean, are the men even seeing the connection here? Elephant in the room much?
Oh I didn’t think you were. But like I said, there are many kinds of love and the love that comes out of devotion and duty is no less valuable than the romantic and erotic varieties. So they came for love, just not the kind DeBeers and Hallmark trade in.
As for the HEFTY DOWRY I think that’s a bit unfair. My parents didn’t deal with a dowry and as far as I know nobody in my immediate or extended family to at least two degrees (second cousins) have. I recall once when just the suggestion of it was enough to send my uncle in a rage and have the guy thrown out of the house. It’s still there, but to say that “probably all marriage” involved one is just not true.
GJ, although I wholeheartedly agree with you on the obnoxiousness that is twitter, I think the condemnation of arranged marriage doesn’t necessarily hold here.
First off, there were many in my parents’ generation who rejected the very concept of dowry including….my parents. Second, many if not most of these were arranged marriages with consent, i.e. the prospective bride and groom would meet each other first, speak privately with the respective families’ supervision, and determine if they like each other (a la Michael Corleone and Apollonia in the Godfather). So to rule out love (or the prospect of it) from arranged marriage is rather unfair. I am certainly not an advocate of it, but my personal preference for a more free-form approach to finding someone does not give me the right to condemn the choices of others. There are pros and cons to both methods.
S.Wry, go back and read my comments 57 and 58. Nowhere did I “condemn” arranged marriage nor state that love is not possible within its parameters.
That your family and Yoga Fire’s families don’t deal in dowry is a rarity.
54 · Ghar Jamai on April 20, 2009 04:01 PM · Direct link what I think is ironic is that the struggles that our parents made-when they came to this country with NO money and I’m quite certain it was many years before my mom could buy nice clothes is not something people can even imagine anymore. What happened to I really believe in and love that person so I will do what I need to to get through this with them….because life is short but also very long right? And today’s bump is just that….a bump in the road……. You’re kidding right? Arranged marriage was never about love. It was always about practicality and convenience and getting ahead and money and, and, and, anything but love.
So this current attitude is totally in line with the concept and purpose of arranged marriage.
Actually, comment 54 more or less touches on that point. Irrespective, it should be pointed out that dowry is illegal in India and punishable by jail term. In fact, things have taken a twist in India where vindictive wives have taken to the false accusation of dowry as well.
Finally, i think anyone with experience on our dating scene in NA knows that money and practicality are huge factors in a woman’s choice for a husband. I can name dozens of friends who were openly stiffed by girls on that specific count. More outrageously, I’ve had friends who’ve intro’d themselves to girls and the opening statement from her mouth was “how much money do you make?”–I kid you not. So while my preference is still to leave it to fate, let’s not kid ourselves, money is always a factor.
In any event, I think we’re starting to go off point here and are on our way to a debate for nowhere.
In addition, you have to factor in the skewed male/female ratio in many parts of India. All of that selective abortion and infanticide means that in some parts of the country, there are almost twice as many boys as there are girls. The women are in short supply. India has become a total sausage-fest.
The part of India that where my parents come from. I have seen reports about it being less then 800 girls for every 1000 boys being born this decade.
Again S.Wry, what does dating have to do with the topic of arranged marriage and dowry?
Dating culture has its merits and demerits, just as the arranged marriage culture has its merits and demerits. That is not the point.
My point was the irony in Crest’s assumption that desi women back in the day stuck by their husbands and migrated with them to the West with very little money in the pocket/bank solely because of love, and his/her appearant dismay at the present day desi female gold diggers.
If arranged marriage is based on duty, responsibility, money and practical things, why shouldn’t a desi bride be a gold digger? What is wrong with it?
Dowry is very much alive even today. My friend’s sister is from North India and prospective grooms are asking for a lump sum of money. She is working for an MNC in India and really doing well for herself, if you are wondering.
On another note, yes, money has always been a big concern while choosing partners among women. Previous generation is no better than ours – just in case one brings along some nostalogia. My guess is, they didn’t have a better option, so they lived with what they got and tried to make the best of it. Today’s women have better option and they are trying to make the best of it. That’s all!
GJ, I brought up dating (which, ultimately is our way here of getting on the path to marriage) because of some of the comments that were made about arranged marriage not being about love. Wealth is a factor in how women choose their mates. Just like beauty is a factor in how men choose theirs.
The point about the dismay being expressed about overt gold digging and its juxtaposition with duty and responsibility is that while it’s one thing to be sure that a husband can support his wife, it’s another for it to be the only factor. I.E. if the husband loses his job, that should not be grounds for divorce–something wall st. bankers have become all too familiar with. Just like if the husband prospers, he should not be looking to upgrade for a trophy wife–something wall st. is also familiar with. Gold digging is not the same as ensuring a man can support his wife. While there’s nothing wrong in a woman wanting her man to have some ambition in life, but it’s not the same as absolutely insisting on personal shoppers and bentleys or bust. That’s the difference between gold digging and practicality.
Divorce has never been an option in Indian culture at large, until recently, and even now, it is barely an option.
Therefore, because Indian women know they will go through hell if they do divorce their husbands, they want to guard against the possibility of that by ensuring as much as possible that it (finances) won’t be an issue.
Indian women are finally becoming vocal about what they want.
Can’t take the heat? Get out of the kitchen.
These dudes who can’t find a wife on the arranged marriage circuit can jump from the frying pan into the fire and try their hand in the “dating scene” and see if they fare any better.
Free enterprise.
Actually, GJ, in the vedic period, divorce certainly was an option. Indeed, until the medieval period, divorce did exist as an option. More tryingly for the male, impotence was one of the grounds…
As for the point about steady finances, yeah, I agree, there’s nothing wrong in a woman’s family making sure a prospective husband can provide a stable living. On a side note, many wives are often duped by NRI husbands and left to deal with the stigma of being jilted after a suhaag raat. It’s disgraceful, and so, I can understand why some families want to be extra-cautious
All I’m saying is there is a difference between seeking out stability (which to be fair, many in the wsj article seem to be doing) and encouraging a culture of gold digging, which is the potential fall out from all this. Bottomline, I know of many good, decent, and modern men as well as independent and “liberated” women who choose the arranged route. Let’s just not brand them as losers for electing a method that we choose not for ourselves.
Dowry is very much alive even today.
In the part of India where my parents are from, many men in the west go to make a quick buck and don’t care if they ruin the young women life. http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/features/brides/story.html?id=a392f07a-6807-43be-83f1-b834f9568cf3
Who’s branding anyone a “loser”? Not me.
I’m an equal oppurtunity mating ritualist.
But let’s not kid ourselves by over-idealizing and romanticizing past generations.
I know of many good, decent, and modern men as well as independent and “liberated” women who choose the arranged route.
Sometimes they have no choice due to family pressure, I speak from personel experience.
GJ, definitely not romanticizing anything as you can see from above, but am putting things in perspective since people love to rail on “oppressive” cultures. Nevertheless, there have been people on this page who have branded many of the “arranged” variety as losers. My response is to them.
i recently read an article discussing how punjab has started importing brides from kerala, due to the converse gender ratios in these states.
Care to elaborate?
Suki, you are right, that is the case sometimes, but not always. I had college friends who went that route out of their own volition and made a specific request to their parents on account of their disillusionment with the dating scene here. My sympathies for the personal experience though…
GJ,
Let me explain to you about such situations- parents do emotionally blackmail the kids into such marriages often. The girl I talked about is made to look only within her caste/community in Bihar. If she looks around in other communities too, I am sure she’d be able to find a good match without having to pay a big dowry. Another case was that of a Marathi friend whose dad was adament about finding a guy within own caste/community; after searching for 2 years without much success, he finally gave in and allowed his daughter to marry a very nice person from a South Indian community.
In both the cases, girls are working, well-qualified women who still have gone through parental pressure.
So Bong, basically your saying that the arranged marriage system is still largely caste based?
What about religion based?
I mean are there people who will look for a suitable match for their child amongst religions other than their own?
What are the criteria? What will generally qualify someone as “suitable”?
I’m assuming there is a checklist.
GJ,
Religion would be actually the first criteria, after that they have their own checklist: -caste -community (which means people with same language/food/culture) -others (education/family background/money…yada yada..)
Now, for some caste might be a bigger deciding factor than say community – I think it’s especially true in India. For most, I am guessing community would be a priority over caste.
It seems like this was a perception amongst DBDs who came to the US from Westernized or cosmopolitan families in large metros. My husband and his DBD buddies strongly preferred dating ABDs or non-Indians, and would have rather stayed unmarried than going back to desh to meet someone. I think that some part of this was their feeling that the ones who had to go home and sort through mountains of “suitable girl” photos were the socially inept geeks (Their theory was that socially inept geeks were a more common variety in the US, since in order to get to a US grad school, you had to get high marks that came from doing nothing but studying in school, which made you less well-rounded). However, I don’t know that this is true…
BTW, I second Satyajit’s opinion on arranged marriages-my parents have had a very happy one for almost 40 years…
Suki Dillon on April 20, 2009 06:08 PM · Direct link Dowry is very much alive even today.
In the part of India where my parents are from, many men in the west go to make a quick buck and don’t care if they ruin the young women life. http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/features/brides/story.html?id=a392f07a-6807-43be-83f1-b834f9568cf3
Haryana, why do you do these things?
On the other note, ABCD girls sound so whiny, I dont know how anybody could compare them to girls in India. But there prolly are some that are cool, the one’s that like South Park, other than that a very high majority of them are spoilt princesses. Dont get me wrong, there are times when I’m driving or riding in berkeley and I almost have an accident looking at somebody but their demeanor just stinks. I’m hideous looking too so I’m sure that has something to do with all of this.
Sir, I believe I have isolated the source of your problem. 😉
Yoga Fire – Sir, I believe I have isolated the source of your problem. 😉
Weird though, most everybody else in Berkeley who is half intelligent is so down to earth. Lets see where else have I lived and seen the same thing : Boston – check LA – check, but its SoCal so definitely friendlier but in comparison, I’d say whiny. San Diego – check, SoCal factor but still whiny. Miami – check NY – eh, a little friendlier I’d suppose SF – I have not yet had time to go out in SF (been here an year now)
Okay, from a DBD woman’s point of view, I don’t think ABD women are whiny or spoilt – it’s just that their expectations are similar to those of any other woman in the USA – white, black or yellow. However, Indian men- ABD or DBD, tend to judge them as ‘universal desi’ women rather than local brown women – so, the expectation is different from what they would expect from any local non-desi woman.
I have plenty of DBD male friends who share their double standards frankly with me. And in terms of expectations, DBD women want as much from their prospective husbands. Now, the perception of lifestyle in the USA was a bit different from reality which they came across when they arrived – by that time, it was too late. These days, women in India are more aware of what they’d face after marriage, hence some are reluctant to get married to NRI grooms. On the other hand, quality of life has improved much in India, so USA has lost its shine and the cons have outscored the pros.
@Another bong
I hear what you’re saying, this might be true for some but I dont think this would apply to me.
I dont have a “desi” group of friends apart from cousins, so for me, I dont see brown different from white/black/yellow/purple. I just think they try to over compensate, which makes sense because I do over the top FOBby things for shits and giggles (like walking in chaadran in downtown) and for somebody who is not “in” the joke they definitely would’nt want to make eye contact with me. I also speak in an Scottish accent when I’m at costco or some other grocery shop.
“Ain’t it cuz DBD gals who went to good schools in India are much smarter and exposed to the world and it’s current affairs than the average ABD gals? “
ROMEO86 ,that explains it
“Ain’t it cuz DBD gals who went to good schools in India are much smarter and exposed to the world and it’s current affairs than the average ABD gals? “
false.
not smarter, and definitely more self absorbed.
“I also speak in an Scottish accent when I’m at costco or some other grocery shop.”
Now that explains it 🙂 I suppose everyone is trying to fit in – his/her own way while some are even having fun with the process. It’s all about how you look at it!
It’s understandable now that India is on the path to economic prosperity.. that some (girls) want to stay back.
My own understanding is that, if you are smart and hardworking… regardless of how you gain entry into the US – F1, H1, H4 or if you swam a river.. you’ll do well.. much better than in India.
This current down turn shall pass.. the girls passing up good (NRI) grooms may regret it later… when the US economy takes off again. It’s foolish to pass on the good in bad times.
If the decision not to marry a NRI is based factors other than the economy.. I guess those decisions will still hold good. To base the most important decision on a temporary condition of the economy is not a smart thing.
On a personal note.. a close friend struck out again on this fourth bride hunting trip. The girls he likes don’t like him.. the ones he doesn’t like, like him.. and so it goes on.
IMHO, he’s a man of modest looks.. but credits himself for an NRI’s “coolness” and other imagined advantages. He won’t settle for anything less than an Aishwarya Rai. and so it continues…
“Ramesh on April 24, 2009 11:45 PM · Direct link “This current down turn shall pass.. the girls passing up good (NRI) grooms may regret it later… when the US economy takes off again. It’s foolish to pass on the good in bad times.
If the decision not to marry a NRI is based factors other than the economy.. I guess those decisions will still hold good. To base the most important decision on a temporary condition of the economy is not a smart thing.”
Really? And how exactly do you define “good NRI grooms”? Most NRIs develop a huge sense of entitlement purely because they are treated with such reverence and awe back home in India.
A lot of NRI grooms do not necessarily have exceptional qualities (other than their ‘NRI status’) that will endear them to prospective brides — most think they deserve universal female adulation simply becuase they have wrangled a citizenship, a GC or H1-B in the land of the brave and the free.
Most sensible, emotionally healthy women would also look for other qualities — humility, reliability, steadfastness, and an ability to respect one’s spouse. NRI grooms don’t score exceptionally high on these other parameters, in my experience.
As a woman, I am not marrying the US economy, I am marrying a man who I think I can love and respect, and who I hope will love and respect me in return.
Also, I can tell you from personal experience, that having a wife on H-4 can cause havoc in a previously egalitarian marriage. Unless both partners are exceptionally mature, the H-4 visa skews the power dynamics in a marriage, and forces the wife to be utterly dependent on the husband — not a healthy sign in any happy marriage.
Of course, such a situation is a boon for those Indian men who don’t believe in egalitarian marriages, since it gives them unquestioned power and control over their wives.
Preeti
Preeti,
Your sweeping generalizations about NRI’s remind me of the “Dump the NRI” articles that appear in TOI every time there is trouble in USA.
Hung_punjabi….are you still single?
Harsha,
If you read my post carefully, you should notice the ‘in my experience’ qualifier. Nowhere have I claimed that my words are gospel truth. I am a former H-4 bride whose marriage went south, largely because of the vagaries of immigration law and the legal constraints that accompany the H4-visa. This has been my experience of NRIs, both men and women.
Everybody seems to be demonizing the H-4 visa as if you are stuck in it for life.If you are so bothered get a transfer to a H1-B or a F-1 Visa(have been there done it and saw others do it with absolutely no problem).Talk to a lawyer if you yourselves cannot do it. I don’t think H-4 is such a big issue that people here make it out to be.Blaming H-4 for not marrying an NRI or a failed marriage is foolish. What can you do on H-4(assuming you want to keep yourselves involved and don’t bother about financial aspects) 1.Volunteer or work free of cost(museums,libraries,etc) 2.Educate yourselves in the better universities. 3.Mingle, join support groups.
If you want money 1.Change to F-1 get funding. 2.Change to H-1 B get a job.
H-4 has got options period.(Don’t expect some magic wand to change your life, do it yourself).
If we look at this scenario from another perspectiove, may be it is good that Indian gals are wisening up and not falling prey 2 the allure of the phirangland. The economy is a tad better in bharat desh and u do get the luxury of servants and help there. This trend is probably saving both guys and gals from alliances made under false pretenses. It should probably encourage these potential dulhas to look for their brides in the US.
Ha ha, Anamika, he’s MINE! I spotted him first. My momma will love to have such a sardar as her ghar jamai.
He knows where his roti will get buttered.
So location (Berkeley) is the problem? Isn’t ANNA from there? But she complains about Northern Californian mens’ attitudes. So which is it? Do the guys suck or do the girls suck in NoCal? And is it all NoCal girls or guys or just desi ones?
I’m planning a move out there soon and need a heads up. Pun intended.
(and is hung-punjabi from NoCal?
“What can you do on H-4(assuming you want to keep yourselves involved and don’t bother about financial aspects) 1.Volunteer or work free of cost(museums,libraries,etc) 2.Educate yourselves in the better universities. 3.Mingle, join support groups.
If you want money 1.Change to F-1 get funding. 2.Change to H-1 B get a job. ” -These are all nice advice, but honestly you need a strong supportive husband to pursue a course (change to F1) here or transfer to H1B. Earlier it would have been easier to transfer to H1B, but these days it’s pretty difficult. Besides, if you can do all that on your own, would you rather prefer to come down to the US than making it big in India while you can have the comfort of own home and support of your family? The first 3 options you have mentioned hardly apply to H4 wives given the cost of living in the USA. If the husband can afford such a lifestyle for her, I suppose he would have options anywhere in any economic situation.
Ghar Jamai,
Here’s a tip: Desi guys working for any big name usually have certain ego issues irrespective of the nature of work. Start-up guys are nicer:-) And if you can track down Mr. Hung-Punjabi, you are all set!
Haha, I can assure from experience that upper middle class DBD GIRLS are just as Westernized as their American counterparts. I honestly see hardly any difference between them and my white western friends, lol. They’re all about parties, cocktails, dating and the latest fashions and gadgets. They are not more aware of the rest of the world (or for that matter the plight of their fellow countrymen) than anybody else.
These are all nice advice, but honestly you need a strong supportive husband to pursue a course (change to F1) “so you mean to say that women in india marry “meanies” who don’t want to support their wives or NRIs don’t support their wives(exceptions exist,but don’t generalize).Again assume you are a meanie, and you want your wife to start earning if you use your brain, the above options will get
“here or transfer to H1B. Earlier it would have been easier to transfer to H1B, but these days it’s pretty difficult.” In what way is it pretty dificult, if you care to explain rather than just say it is difficult Besides, if you can do all that on your own, would you rather prefer to come down to the US than making it big in India while you can have the comfort of own home and support of your family. “don’t take it serious” If you want comforts of home, family and everything in the world and don’t want to do anything,please don’t come to US and don’t blame H-4 visa/Other issues in US (since according to some people it is causing family toubles and spoiling lives)
The first 3 options you have mentioned hardly apply to H4 wives given the cost of living in the USA. If the husband can afford such a lifestyle for her, I suppose he would have options anywhere in any economic situation.
So according to you NRIs can’t afford such a life style: How much does volunteering for a nearby library cost you? (assuming you are atleast ready to feed your wife)
If you want your wife start earning from day 1 onwards, marry somebody who is on a H1-b visa or is a ABD(again you will come up with some issues here also)
end of the day,you can’t have everything on a platter, you have to make some adjustments.