Someone on my GChat list had an intriguing link included in their status message. I saw “inauguration”, and since that historic event is still very much on my mind, I clicked it. I was led to the Boston Globe’s website, to a feature called “The Big Picture: News Stories in Photographs“.
Yesterday was a historic day. On January 20th, 2009, Barack H. Obama was sworn in as the 44th President of the United States of America – the first African-American ever to hold the office of U.S. Commander-in-Chief. The event was witnessed by well over one million attendees in chilly Washington D.C., and by many millions more through coverage on television and the Internet. Collected here are photographs of the event, the participants, and some of the witnesses around the world. (48 photos total)
Picture number 38 caught my attention, setting my browndar off before I could even read the caption underneath it (which I’ve quoted, well, underneath it):
Pakistani Christian children hold portraits of U.S. President-elect Barack Obama during a prayers ceremony for global peace in Islamabad, Pakistan on Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2009. (AP Photo) [Globe]
At first glance, I didn’t notice the word “Christian”. I just saw “Pakistani children”. I thought I’d just post the picture plus a quick blurb about where I found it, and isn’t it sweet, etc. But for obvious reasons, I started surfing around, and a rambling post was born.Over the past five years, I’ve made numerous references to my family’s faith and Christianity as it exists in Kerala, but Christianity exists in every South Asian country (admittedly in miniscule numbers, in some of those nations). The first non-Indian brown Christian I ever met was my ruthless Montessori pre-school teacher in San Francisco. She was Sri Lankan and my parents strongly encouraged her to get old-school naddan on me, if I were naughty enough. That meant that if some little white kid did something wrong, they were gently scolded. If I did something wrong, I got hissed at and pinched. My parents were overjoyed that they were really getting their money’s worth.
It would be 14 years until I met another Desi who was Christian; at Davis I discovered that someone wasn’t just using an anglicized nickname. “Wait, that guy’s actually named ____??”
“Yeah. He’s Christian.”
me: Baroo?
“Not like you. He said he’s Pakistani.”
me: wow.
“Yeah. Now there are two of you…and three hundred of us!”
I still don’t know all that much beyond a vague, depressing sense that it’s rather dangerous to be a Christian (or a Hindu) in Pakistan, due to the brilliantly just Blasphemy laws, which require nothing more than the insinuation of disrespect towards Islam, to ruin someone’s life:
Ten years ago today, Bishop John Joseph, Catholic bishop of Faisalabad in Pakistan, shot himself dead on the steps of the Sahiwal district court in protest at the abuse of the country’s blasphemy laws. Ten years on, little has changed in Pakistan.
The blasphemy laws impact everyone, regardless of religion – and the tragedy is that almost every case is completely fabricated. When the laws were first introduced, they were used primarily as a tool by extremists to target religious minorities – Christians, Hindus and others. These days, however, Muslims have got wise to the potential for using the blasphemy law against each other to settle personal scores.
The reason is simple. The blasphemy law requires no evidence other than an accusation made by one person against another.
There is no proof of intent, and an inadequate definition of blasphemy. When it comes to court the accuser does not even have to substantiate the charge. If the judge asks what the accused actually said, the accuser can refuse to elaborate, on the basis that by repeating the alleged statement they themselves would be blaspheming. [Guardian]
See? Brilliant!
This made me wonder about the Christians in Pakistan; we all know that Sikhs and Hindus had been there before partition, but I’d never heard much about the history of Christianity in that country. I have a deplorably lazy habit of assuming that the answers to such questions tend to involve colonizers and missionary types. Let’s see if I get lucky:
The exact introduction of Christianity to the South Asia is a debatable topic, with the Syrian Christian community in Kerala, South India being recorded as the earliest. Missionaries accompanied colonizing forces from Portugal, France and Great Britain, but in north western Ancient India, today’s Pakistan, Christianity was mainly brought by the British rulers of India in the later 18th and 19th century. This is evidenced in cities established by the British, such as the port city of Karachi, where the majestic St. Patrick’s Cathedral, Pakistan’s largest church stands, and the churches in the city of Rawalpindi, where the British established a major military cantonment. [wiki]
Had no idea about any of this:
Christians in Punjab and Sindh had been quite active post 1945 in their support for Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s Muslim League. Even before the final phase of the movement, leading Indian Christians like Pothan Joseph had rendered valuable services as journalists and propagandists of the Muslim League. Jinnah had repeatedly promised all citizens of Pakistan complete equality of citizenship, but this promise was not kept by his successors….In the mass population exchanges that occurred between Pakistan and India upon independence due to conflict between Muslims and followers of Indian religions, most Hindus and nearly all Sikhs fled the country, but the Christians remained. [wiki]
I have a million reasons for wishing my Father were still alive, but the one which is relevant to this post has to do with Jinnah, specifically the declamatory 15-minute rant he used to launch in to upon hearing his name. When I was younger I thought it was odd that my Dad, who was born in 1937, was so much older than everyone else’s parents. Now I wish I had written it all down.
I wanted to find out more about the ceremony for global peace in Islamabad at which that picture was taken, but all I found were a few more photographs of the event and no news story. Oh, well. It’s poignant how the inauguration of our latest President has affected not just this nation, but the world. South Asians for Obama, indeed. 🙂
I suggest people to read these fantastic essays!
A Business Model of Religion – 1 A Business Model of Religion – 2
and why this dialog is going nowhere
The Asymmetric Dialog of Civilizations
253 · NV said
Nope. Let’s ask Anna:
Anna, do you define yourself as a Hindu?
That’s not required. When some non-Hindus felt elated when Obama mentioned ‘Hindu’ is what I am alluding to. It’s a feeling you will never be able to feel.
I think almost all of those who comment/blog (or their parents) have willingly spurned the land of their culture and came to live in a foreign and alien land and culture.
I don’t think many immigrants to the US “spurned” their land. I think many Indians come to the U.S. b/c they can take advantage of economic opportunities, AND at the same time have the freedom to practice their culture, build their mandirs, mosques, churches etc and go about their business. I don’t think too many are “spurning” their cultures or countries….if that was the case, they can have forced “spurning” going to another country, like the many theocracies that exits, that may offer them economic advantages.
256 · Kiran P said
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, oh my, hilarious. oh! Sort I am crying I am laughing so hard. Of course, I could NEVER feel elated hearing Obama mention Hindus! And I’m sure my Hindu fiance can’t either, since he is spurning his cultures and beliefs and planning to marry an ‘alien’ outsider?
You laugh but don’t educate enough to have a positive dialog. One of the techniques mentioned here is laugh it off!
259 · Kiran P said
If only laughing off hatred, intolerance, discrimination, and fundamentalism were easier! Then I could be out enjoying my day by now, instead of wasting my time arguing on a pair of deaf ears.
P.S. “don’t educate enough” matlab kya hai? Ye angrezi thori-si tutti-futti hai.
254 · Kiran P said
Wow! It’s like he reads the comments in Sepia Mutiny!
I don’t think many immigrants to the US “spurned” their land. I think many Indians come to the U.S. b/c they can take advantage of economic opportunities, AND at the same time have the freedom to practice their culture, build their mandirs, mosques, churches etc and go about their business. I don’t think too many are “spurning” their cultures or countries….if that was the case, they can have forced “spurning” going to another country, like the many theocracies that exits, that may offer them economic advantages.
That qualifies as financial inducement no? I doubt my parents would have come here if they think they had equivalent economic opportunities in India.
Let me try to understand, So, if your parents spurned India for economic opportunities to live in the US it is OK, but if some Hindus in India spurn Hinduism for economic oportunities, it is not OK. Your logic is hypocritical. If we agree with your premise that people are free to migrate to different countries for economic freedom, they should be equally free to migrate to different religions for economic benefits.
237 · NV said
What a load of BS. The inhumane aspects of brahminism that are being rightly criticized have been criticized by indians themselves throughout the ages. Buddha, Mahavira, the Sikh Gurus etc, not to mention numerous indian saints and sages who did not found new religions, all condemned casteism/brahminism and other abominations in indian culture. You dont have to be a westerner, or exposed to western values, to conclude that burning widows alive or treating widows like pariahs is not just wrong but EVIL. Ditto for untouchability, temple prostitution, child slavery, child marriage, callousness towards human suffering etc that brahminism has imposed on India.
but if some Hindus in India spurn Hinduism for economic oportunities, it is not OK.
Oh, I didn’t say this…I think anyone who wants to convert should convert…but I’m aware of historical and political underpinnings to this.
I was just reading a book on Mormons in the U.S., it’s a historical novel. From the protanganists perspective there was a lot of coercion and threats of physical violence if you left the fold (and for the Mormons out there who don’t see this as part of their culture that’s fine…this is just this writer’s perspective expressed through a historical protaganist” — I think that’s horrible. If I was a Muslim and wanted to convert to Hinduism than that should be my right. If I’m a Hindu and want to become a Mormon than that should be my right.
Also from many anthropologists writings about missionaries in Africa, there was such exploitation and false promises, and no equality in Christian brotherhood that was promised, for converts. Sure people may have willingly converted but there is also potentially manipulation and no manipulation. And there is also potentially people who convert to say Christianity, who are inspired by the religion. Anyways I think Kiran brings up a lot of valid points b/c she doesn’t ignore historically the role that conversion to different religions played in the colonized, colonizer history or empowered, unempowered history.
The problem with your statement, to me, was the word “spurn”; but I agree with you completely that everyone has a right to religiously convert if they want and I’m glad India doesn’t have any laws that prevent this and I hope that that doesn’t happen.
The fact that it was Hindus who led the movements to reform those very evils kind of undercuts your point that these evils are inherent parts of Hinduism doesn’t it?
Actually, I think it is sad that people feel like they have to leave India in order to make the most of themselves. This speaks to a failure of the Indian state to meet the needs of its citizens.
My point was that people don’t typically leave their native culture unless they are somehow induced to do so. Leaving imposes a cost after all and they would need to have something to offset that cost. In terms of shifting religions the financial inducement is using the same model. If being Christian in and of itself made you better off that would be one thing. But it doesn’t. What happens instead is that it often amounts to bullying or bribery as PS said.
249 · Kiran P said
Ah, little did I know that that the phrase Hindu-Muslim does not allude to an aggregation of 2 collective nouns, but rather to the first word being applied as an adjective to the second. Hence India has Hindu Muslims, Hindu Christians, Hindu Sikhs, Hindu Jews (of course, we are all agreed that these losers are not really authentic contributors to Indian culture as has been clearly described above), and of course, first (among equals, of course, what do you think we are? bigots?) Hindu Hindus. The rest are Macaulayites, westerners or touristers. Viewed through this lens, Indian culture is crystal clear.
244 · NV said
Very funny. And very stupid and irrational. So genius, if muslims and christians are hindus as you have “established”, why do you keep calling them “minorities” and keep whining so pitifully about them “minorities” overwhelming the hindu majority?
The christian missionaries of today no longer have the power to force people to convert against their will. Do you have the same objections to hindutva missionaries converting non-hindu indian tribals to low caste (or outcaste?) hindus in an extremely oppressive religion that teaches them they are worse than dirt and fit only to be servants of the upper caste hindu minority?
Why did your parents escape from India to the land of the impure mlechhas? For material greed, right?
It is always amusing to watch these psuedo-patriots sing of the glories of the india that they were so desperate to escape from.
The fact that it was Hindus who led the movements to reform those very evils kind of undercuts your point that these evils are inherent parts of Hinduism doesn’t it?
Seriously – Dhoni/Prema never gets this. I really hope these sort of reformers gain control and influence in other parts of the world as well and I hope their influence continues to permeate Indian culture and civil society.
Yes, Catholics that followed St. Thomas to Kerala do exist.
265 · NV said
This actually makes sense to him. Buddha, the Sikh Gurus etc may have been born hindus but they rejected it and founded new religions. Casteism is inherent to brahminism, by definition. Rejecting the unjust, wicked absurdity of hereditary casteism is equivalent to rejecting brahminism.
If you admit these “evils” in hindu culture and deny that they are “inherent” to hinduism then why the heck are you trying so stubbornly to defend them??
10-C:
The history of Kerala Christians has a large gap between 300AD to Vasco da Gama. What happened in those years? In particular, Adi Shankara—who came from Kerala around 800AD—must have known of Kerala Christians. What are his views on Kerala Christianity? Can Kerala Christianity be considered a more authentic Indian Christianity than any denomination that came after Vasco da Gama? There are so many questions that arise because there is a gap from 300AD to Vasco da Gama.
I disagree with most of what NV and Kiran P are saying (and agree with most of what Linzi is saying although I think she is too kind to the Muslim fundamentalists in India), but the above quote about a certain segment of Indians is something I agree with 100%. Except I would add that this group does sometimes engage positively with Indic traditions too, but ususally from a Westernized perspective.
272 · Amitabh said
We weren’t really talking about Muslim fundamentalists.. mainly this discussion was about Hindu and Christian issues, but as I have been saying throughout.. I condemn ALL fundamentalism… and trust me, that means from ALL angles,including Islamic fundamentalists… Seems like common sense, doesn’t it?
273 · LinZi said
It’s only fundamentalism if Muslims or Christians to do it. It’s called preserving the glory of Indian (or is that too Macaulayite? Should I use Indic?) culture, and protecting it from Bush and the CIA otherwise.
stand up,
Sit down and relax and read everthing I have said from top down. If you still have come to the conclusion you have come to then you are not getting it. Probably you will not get it. Let me say in another way – If an Indian values Indian way of life i.e tolerance, pluralism, inclusivity and such noble virtues that are basis of Indic religions ( Sanatana dharma or whatever you want to call it ) then you are a Hindu. Forget westerners typecasting Hindus as this and that. They have an agenda ( missionary whatever ) in doing that or simply may not get it from Eurocentric lens. Problem arises when missionaries driven by Church to increase their soul harvesting in foreign lands demand exclusivity to their God and thus introduce intolerance, intolerance leading to disturbing the societal calm, slowly resulting in seperatist movements like ‘Nagalim for Christ’ and now in split up of Orissa? It’s similar to seperatist movement in J&K. These situations and trends are unwelcome. Those Muslims and Christians in India who support these seperatist movements on the basis of religion especially after engineering it through ethnic cleansing or using deceptive & forced conversions are the only kind which are not Hindu per my definition. Everybody else has learnt to co-exist with each other. If there are stray cases where people are switching religion on their own volition for economic benefit or just change in mood it’s fine too as long as they practice tolerance and not abet seperatist movements.
We were OK about 20 years ago. Then started Islamic fundamentalism. For past 10 years, especially after Pope’s visit to convert India situation has become very grim. There is Evangelical terrorism coupled with Jehadi Terrorism. Terrorism, riots, social unrest etc., everything has become ten fold.
We weren’t really talking about Muslim fundamentalists.. mainly this discussion was about Hindu and Christian issues, but as I have been saying throughout..
It’s interesting how the convo got to this angle – b/c the blog is about Christians in Pakistan – a country and a culture and a religion, that is often practiced w/o religious tolerance and much bigotry.
275 · Kiran P said
Sorry, we Macaulayites and westerners like to do it standing up.
277 · stand up said
I know 🙂 that’s why you are not getting it!
278 · Kiran P said
Oh, I get it. Any time I want. Any way I want.
276 · PS said
Give India time. We started poorly with a naive emphasis on secularism, but we are getting there.
275 · Kiran P said
look out stand up, I think Kiran is recruiting for his cult of true Bharatis! Of course, make sure you don’t taint his mind with any of the “Other” thinking… that is, anything he doesn’t agree with!
Read post #206, you will find answers! The idea is to keep the country together with religious freedom but not allow the breakup of the country by allowing the redefinition of ‘religious freedom’
282 · Kiran P said
I agree completely! Like Henry Ford’s epigram about car colors, in India, you can be any religion as long as you are…
Look to the sky, and you will find your answers! The time is near! All Hail the Mighty Fundamental Hindu Nation, coming to a community near you. We are tolerant of all, as long as you are one of us. We allow religious freedom, as long as its on our terms. And we love all, as long as they don’t try to take our jobs, use our land, or get a political voice in the nation. Let’s have a bear hug, oh wait, thats too western, a BHAALOO hug, please!
I knew you would get it once you get some metaphors
275 · Kiran P said
BS. India was divided into two nations on the basis of religion more than 20 years ago, leading to FAR worse communal riots than have been seen since. India and Pakistan fought full scale wars over Kashmir more than 20 years ago. There hasnt been a full scale war since 1971. Sikhs were slaughtered by hindus in Delhi and hindus by sikhs in Punjab during the peak of the khalistani religious separatist movement, more than 20 years ago. Dalits were raped, murdered, humiliated every day by higher caste hindus at perhaps an even greater rate than today. And so on.
You call that “OK”?
285 · Kiran P said
That’s as funny as… your other comments.
284 · LinZi said
sounds like Missionaries to me who preached that for 2000 years and caused untold destruction to humankind!
Give India time. We started poorly with a naive emphasis on secularism, but we are getting there.
Well I hope we don’t get to the point of Pakistan or Saudi,et al….I don’t think it’ll happen; There’s a lot in Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and other religions that began in India and still influential in our civil society, that have had for a long time, no emphasis on religious dogma, and evangelism. So no, I won’t be waiting but you are more than welcome to hold your breath.
The only thing is if Islamic fundamentalism continues w/o any introspection in their culture, and ideas from Sufism and the tolerant practices of Muslims don’t gain precedence, THEN, it might cause quite a reaction in parts of the world that want a multicultural, multireligious democracy.
Did the sarcastic part slip right by you again, Kiran?
284 · LinZi said
So when you can’t actually argue on the points resort to strawmen and belittling?
“OK” meaning what was done in 1947 was done and was over with it in that sense.
Sikhs were slaughtered by Congress goons, encouraged by Jagadish Tytler( christian) and Sajjan Kumar. It was political matter and not a religious one. I totally support the sikhs and condemn every bloody Congress party member whether Hindu or not for this genocide.
289 · PS said
yes, that’s right. the only way bharat can be multireligious is if everybody is hindu.
as i said, we’re making up for the apparently lost time. everybody thinks only the other guy is capable of being a monster, and what they are doing is just out of necessity and the purest of intentions. doesn’t change the end result.
Sarcasm, LOL, HAHA etc., are convenient divergence for people with agenda or for those who don’t want to speak up the truth as is. I am only interested in honest dialog! I am still waiting for your detailed answers to posts #204 and #206
294 · Kiran P said
I already answered you at least three times regarding that. Do you have some sort of paranoia problem, you DO understand that I am not a christian, right? I don’t even have an agenda, unless you count human rights as an “agenda”.
yes, that’s right. the only way bharat can be multireligious is if everybody is hindu.
Well it’s multireligious now and all it’s neighbors are war torn and highly oppressive of religious minorities, among other things; highly censored; never allowing people like you to have any voice.
Right now, in a part of a world, where it’s mostly dictators and theocracies the Indian state is encouraging religious minorities (paying Muslims to their trip to Mecca); trying to coalesce secular laws with the religious laws of some religions (Muslims), etc., so unlike you I’ll stay I’m logically hopeful.
as i said, we’re making up for the apparently lost time. everybody thinks only the other guy is capable of being a monster
I don’t think the Indian state and most of the religions and cultures in India view themselves this way…which is why we have a free press and democracy…If the Indian state was founded on xenophobic principles that only others could be monsters we wouldn’t have had the courage to start a democracy or a have a free press to hear the different views. I’m afraid the very states and cultures that have found states that believe that only others can be monsters, have restrictive dictatorships – that’s the only way they can handle their perception.
Nice missionary propoganda material from where? Dalitstan and such sites? Fo their part they are complaining bitterly after getting converted and cheated!
297 · Kiran P said
Kiran, you really do live in a dream world. I lived in rural Bihar and was in contact with low/untouchable communities who, to this day, are treated extremely horribly by the uppercastes. They are discriminated against, their children raped, people treated like cattle, not allowed to even come inside a building or sit at the same level as uppercaste people. I am talking about 2005, so it’s not ancient history. It is still going on, and this is discrimination withing Hinduism, not even talking about other religious groups.
You can choose what you want to believe, and what you want to turn a blind eye to, that’s up to you. Whatever viewpoint you want to espouse, you will find some website to back you up. And it is clear that you want to pretend that there are no Hindu fundamentalists, and all the communalism exists only do to outside fundamentalists coming in. If you can not clearly see the issues at hand, how will you ever truly find a solution?
204 · Kiran P said
Treating minorities like sikhs, muslims and christians to murderous pogroms is a good thing in your book? How many other countries have indulged in such pogroms in the last half century?
Forget about the mistreatment of minorities, India treats the majority of its citizens FAR worse than any other nation. Back to normal is not good. For the norm itself is so abominable. What is so great about the normal brahminical culture of misogyny, child abuse, brutality, callousness, superstition, casteism etc?
posts #204 and #206
You did not answer but countered with blanket statements. Reply issue by issue.
All OK in the name of human rights? That’s exactly what missionaries say when they do what they do.
299 · Dhoni said
As all those who worry about rewritten history imply the only atrocities to worry about are by the phorens and the invaders. Internecine fights that have been a fact of life throughout history – we only kill them because we love them, you know that?
No! societal evils, thanks to Brits, cannot be attributed to Hinduism. Do we have a problem? Yes. Is it getting better? Yes. Is Racism a huge problem in USA? Yes. Is it getting better? Yes. How long was US free nation? 300+ How long has India been a free nation? 60+ years
Have some perspective. Then we can have real dialog. By linking societal evils to Hinduism and magnifying them million fold missionaries are trying to harvest souls. That’s well known fact.
297 · Kiran P said
Not surprising to see this callousness towards human suffering coming from you. For selfish and cruel hard-heartedness is such an integral part of brahminism. Perhaps you think the following site hindu-com site belongs to a missionary organization and the govt figures of atrocities against dalits that it quotes are christian propaganda?
http://www.hindu.com/mag/2008/10/05/stories/2008100550090400.htm
“The National Crime Records Bureau says every day two dalits are killed, three dalit women are raped and a dalit is assaulted every 18 minutes. And this is the count of only cases that enter the records.”