Satyam: The “Truth” Will Out

By now, most people have probably heard about the huge Satyam scandal, where the company’s founder and chairman, Ramalinga Raju, has taken responsibility for massive fraud in reporting the company’s earnings, profits, and cash balance. Satyam, one of India’s largest consulting and IT companies, has admitted it claimed $1 billion in assets that simply did not exist for just one three month period in 2008. The company is now facing the abyss, as its share prices are evaporating, and clients are starting to defect to rivals (including IBM and Accenture). Satyam currently employs 53,000 people.

As background, Reuters has an informative story on the status of Ramalinga Raju as a symbol of Hyderabad as a new IT hub (“Cyberabad”) and the whole, now deeply tarnished “India Shining” mythology.

And that’s not all. Two American legal firms are filing lawsuits against Satyam, claiming fraud. Distressingly, PriceWaterhouse Coopers, the accounting firm that signed off on Satyam’s accounting practices for years, never detected the fraud.

What went wrong? Salil Tripathi has a provocative Op-Ed at the Wall Street Journal, where he addresses the aspects of Indian business culture that enabled this to happen. For Tripathi, one of the key factors in Satyam’s case is the clan-like structure of Satyam’s upper management and Board of Directors, which are heavily populated by relatives and close friends of the chairman:

What distinguishes a listed company from other forms of business is the separation of ownership from management. As in other countries, some Indian companies have boards made up of friends, if not the family, of the entrepreneur who started the firm. Often, senior management positions are also held by members of the family. Transactions between related parties are not at all rare, and when they occur, the information is not disclosed clearly.

All these warning signs were missed in the case of Satyam, which decided to invest in two real-estate companies related to the Raju family. The board, which included Krishna Palepu, a Harvard Business School professor and a corporate governance expert, and Vinod Dham, regarded as one of the minds behind the Pentium chip at Intel, agreed. The deal fell through when institutional investors protested. Credit the greater transparency economic reforms have brought about in India, with external investors asking hard questions, and the media scrutinizing companies thoroughly. Markets did their job quickly; relief from courts would have taken longer. (link)

Despite the probable collusion of members of the Board of Directors and other members of Senior Management at Satyam in the fraud (it seems hard to imagine that Raju did all this without anyone knowing about it), for Tripathi, the solution is not new laws or tighter regulation:

But good governance requires vigilance by the board. India will need more of that. Institutional investors and the media will have to scrutinize companies more deeply. None of that necessarily requires new law. Indian corporate law is mature. India should take a look at what happened in the U.S. after the Sarbanes-Oxley law of 2002 before it decides to bring back some of its old red tape. (link)

Tripathi is referring to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which was instituted in the U.S. after the Enron scandal to strengthen the integrity of corporate accounting practices. I am not sure I agree with Tripathi that new regulations are not required (it seems like the problem he’s describing is exactly the kind of thing carefully written regulations can address), though I admittedly don’t know much about the problems Sarbanes-Oxley has created for American businesses.

What do people think? Tripathi’s article is helpful, though I’m a little confused on some points: aren’t there conflict-of-interest types of restrictions for Boards of Directors in western countries? (In the first passage I quoted, Tripathi suggests in-bred management/accounting/governance structures like Satyam’s are not unique to India.) Shouldn’t some such restrictions be there?

We will probably find out more about how this fraud was perpetuated in the coming weeks, which will clarify what legal reforms are necessary. It is probably too early to say, as confidently as Tripathi does here, that nothing is really wrong.

96 thoughts on “Satyam: The “Truth” Will Out

  1. Jyotsana,

    The firm that audits maytas is Batliboi not Billimoria, that was a mistake

  2. 30 · Dr Amonymous said

    wasn’t it owned my family members? it sounds like a financial arrangement to have separate entitites for some reason rather than anything else. or maybe a shared commitment to the satyam family / business.

    Indeed. There is a theory doing the rounds in some blogs that there hasn’t been any long ongoing cooking of books, but rather a garden variety theft of public company assets by the founding family, which happened rather recently. The attempt to take over maytas was, according to this theory, an attempt to paper over this gap (ie, post acquisition, satyam would announce a loss in the maytas division, of a magnitude similar to the amount stolen). Under this theory, the admission by mr raju is a way to protect other family properties/members.

    All in all, quite a depressing story.

  3. 58 · Corporate Serf said

    There is a theory doing the rounds in some blogs that there hasn’t been any long ongoing cooking of books, but rather a garden variety theft of public company assets by the founding family, which happened rather recently.

    Interesting. I think the rumblings about Satyam started sometime around last summer, if I recall correctly, and I guess that the version of events you allude to, if true, will exculpate PWC. That said, given the pretty significant scandal with World Bank too, something does seem to be rotten pretty deep inside Satyam.

  4. with last names that should be first names are known to do a a lot worse

    Exactly. Not to mention the divine penile reference. Just look at Dick Fold and Mr. Lay. After decades of name calling, something’s got to give.

  5. Questions:

    1) How independent is India’s judiciary system when it comes to dealing with white collar crimes such as these?

    2)Are other large outsourcing companies like WIPRO and Infosys now coming under scrutiny? I always wondered how WIPRO, a former peanut company was able to grow into one the largest outsourcing companies in the world in such a short time.

    I personally have never had a good experience with Indian customer service agents and have always wondered how, (with such poor service) many of these Indian companies were continually able to attract u.s. businesses. Are the engineers who don’t answer phones better than the customer service agents? Or is India just a cheaper destination that happens to have a lot of English speakers?

    Also, why do you people still refer to maids as “servants”?

  6. Jef @ 53 Satyam was named after RR’s father. B Satyanarayana Raju

    Corporate Serf @ 58 That’s quite wicked. I hadn’t thought along those lines.

  7. Also, why do you people still refer to maids as “servants”?

    What, you prefer some euphemism to cover up their real role? How about, “friends of the family?”

  8. on the role of Pwc.. very clearly its lack of application from their end.. the partner might lose his CA registration but the ICAI has no leeway to ban PwC.. interesting to note though that this is not the first time that Pwc has been accused of irregularity.. they were the auditors for GTB ( global trust bank) which went down ( accouting irregularities and management fraud) some years back.. if memory serves me right, SEBI at that point, had barred Pwc from takin on banking audits for some time..

    speaking of GTB, krishna palepu was a board member there too !!

  9. All in all, quite a depressing story

    I would take a different stand. Indian corporates with newly minted wealth are just growing up to be like American corporates ( e.g. Broadcom chairman – Henry .T Nicholas ). We should welcome India to the club. But unfortunately there will be so many poor Indian Dick and Janes. So I would say a mixed feeling story.

  10. I don’t buy the family business angle. Scandals of this kind occur in all sorts of business environments, even in companies in the U.S. like Enron. The reason this is so shocking is that this is the first significant scandal in an Indian industry that until now was regarded as professional and above all this. There is a case to be made that publicly run companies are run even more incompetently and with less accountability than private, family run concerns. (The guys running a public company have no real incentive to be competent at their jobs).

    I think unless a systematic statistical comparison is made between public, and private family run companies is made, such conclusions are questionable.

  11. Satyam is not a financial/services company so its actions do not affect its customers, only its shareholders and possibly creditors. Unlike a financial company where the customer at times is also a creditor – as in the case of depositors – Satym’s customers aren’t. Satyam from all accounts has delivered value to its customers or else it would have never grown this big. I wouldn’t lend any credence to the World Bank’s allegations of corruption on Satyam’s part, not when the World Bank is a paragon of malfeasance, misappropriation, and mismanagement. And what is this nonsense about blacklisting Satyam. The last I heard, Siemens and ABB – two companies that have made a name for themselves from the actions of their corrupt top management haven’t been banned by the World Bank ever. And are there any investment bankers who have been barred from working with World Bank entities? Sanctimony is a tricky thing.

    NM, you sound like Rip Van Winkle!

  12. 69 · jyotsana said

    The last I heard, Siemens and ABB – two companies that have made a name for themselves from the actions of their corrupt top management haven’t been banned by the World Bank ever.

    Not according to the World Bank. They denied the hacking allegation, claimed it was because Satyam bribed management and embezzled money.

  13. To nm,

    1) How independent is India’s judiciary system when it comes to dealing with white collar crimes such as these? Just as independent as the US judicial system was in dealing with the sub-prime mortgage mess and crooks like Bernie Madoff.

    2) Are other large outsourcing companies like WIPRO and Infosys now coming under scrutiny? I always wondered how WIPRO, a former peanut company was able to grow into one the largest outsourcing companies in the world in such a short time.

    Just like how Wal-mart grew from a mom-and-pop grocery store to a $100 billion company in a decade.

    3) I personally have never had a good experience with Indian customer service agents and have always wondered how, (with such poor service) many of these Indian companies were continually able to attract u.s. businesses. Are the engineers who don’t answer phones better than the customer service agents? Or is India just a cheaper destination that happens to have a lot of English speakers?

    I never had any better experience with US customer service agents, either. Most of them simply “put me on hold briefly” for 30-45 minutes and their attitude was horrible. It took 3-4 calls to set right a simple problem.Maybe if you removed the blinkers from your eyes, you can see why India attracts US businesses. If the quality is going to be $hitty, I might as well pay less for it.

    Also, why do you people still refer to maids as “servants”? Sorry from now on, we will refer to them as Macacas, to satisfy the PC-Americans. Happy?

  14. To the New York Slimes,

    Maybe if you would STFU about Indian business practices and concentrate on your own in-the-gutter stock price and your impending bankruptcy, you would do far better. This is rich, a failed newspaper with a lower trust rating than John Edwards lecturing India on its business practices. But of course in non-clannish US, businesses are run so much better, a scandal like Satyam could never happen in the US. Enron, WorldCom, Tyco and Citicorp? Naaaah, that was done by an evil Caucasian clone of Ramalinga Raju, the clannish evil corrupt Indian business leader.

  15. 72 · bytewords said

    i love how the nm’s of the world come out of the woodwork with news like this.

    nm is clearly some pg style mutant, ignore.

  16. 72 · bytewords said

    i love how the nm’s of the world come out of the woodwork with news like this.

    i think nm is prema.

  17. 73 · DesiDude said

    Maybe if you would STFU about Indian business practices and concentrate on your own in-the-gutter stock price and your impending bankruptcy, you would do far better.

    heh. i especially love it when the nytimes editorializes against nepotism.

  18. 61 · dipanjan said

    Exactly. Not to mention the divine penile reference. Just look at Dick Fold and Mr. Lay. After decades of name calling, something’s got to give

    i hate to be rubin it in, but these guys madoff with so much that i doubt they’ll be able to rangel out of an extensive sentance. if they’re not be milken it they better be watching their fannie.

  19. Two points: 1. india shining etc. How this might affect that perception is because, the scandals in India in the past were all local, news did nt travel outside the country too much. In this case, SAY is a NYSE listed company with a multimillion dollar market cap in late October (before the Maytas take over was announced). So the loss in share value/business value affects a lot of international investors directly.

    1. Did anyone read the audacity of RR in writing analogies while confessing to the crime?

    He has himself given suggestions towards the kind of punishment that may be meted out to him. Get a tiger (man-eating or non man-eating, Indian or Siberian), find a forest and then set him on the tiger and of course, track him with a webcam attached to a bird.

  20. (1) CITU statement. New Delhi, January 8: Centre of Indian Trade Unions (CITU) reiterates that the Satyam Computer Services Ltd. fraud has once again exposed the hollowness of the much-hyped corporate governance in a free market economy. CITU demands that Government should take punitive action immediately against the corporate scam-star, the Board of Directors, the so-called Independent Directors, and the Auditors, who are responsible for the trauma, being faced by 53000 workers and a huge number of small retail investors.

    CITU points out that the Satyam fraud is not an isolated case in an inadequate regulatory mechanism but highlights the collusive mismanagement of public fund by the nexus of Private Corporates, Auditors and independent directors backed by the Government. M/s Price Water House & Cooper (PWC), the auditor of Satyam was also the auditor of Global Trust Bank, which collapsed in 2004 and then bailed out by a PSU bank. CITU strongly apprehends than an independent scrutiny of the balance sheets of the companies which are being audited by M/s PWC and other trans-national audit firms, would bring out skeletons in the cup board of corporate misgovernance of similar fraudulent nature. Keeping in view PWC’s client list of 50 Corporate bigwigs in India, including number of top IT companies, GMR, LANCO, United Breweries (UB), Reliance Power, Simplex, Max India etc., CITU demands that the monopoly of PWC and other trans-national auditors should be immediately curbed and PWC be blacklisted.

    Along with other corrective as well as preventive regulatory measures to protect the interest of million of workers, employees, retail investors and public money, CITU demands that the Government should take immediate steps to constitute a National Audit Board to regulate and scan the audit of the listed private companies. The Audit Board should have similar power and duties that the C&AG have for the audits of PSUs.

    (2) CPIM statement. The Central Committee of the Communist Party of India (Marxist) now in session at Kochi has issued the following statement on the Satyam Fraud issue.

    The shocking revelation of an over Rs. 7000 crore fraud by the promoters of Satyam Computers has shown that Indian big business has started emulating the worst corrupt practices of their counterparts in the advanced capitalist countries, especially the US. It is indeed outrageous that Satyam was given the “Golden Peacock Global Award� for Excellence in Corporate Governance! The Satyam Chairman B. Ramalinga Raju has admitted that the company has been manipulating its balance sheets for years to show inflated profits and under reporting liabilities.

    Such fraudulent corporate behaviour, as the Enron scandal in the US in 2001 had shown, is motivated by the greed to increase the share prices and market capitalization of the company. A former Enron CEO is currently serving a 24 years prison term and Enron’s accounting firm Arthur Andersen had to be dissolved for being complicit in the scam. The urge to quickly become rich, motivated fraudulent reporting of profits by the top Enron management, since higher profits led to higher share prices and resulted in higher individual net worth for the managers. Such corporate frauds have been encouraged by the process of deregulation and financial liberalization, which has made company managements obsessed with their stock market valuations. The UPA Government must learn the proper lessons from this episode and desist from further emulating the failed system of the US. Corporate regulations need an overhaul in India in order to discipline big business.

    The CPI (M) demands that the Government take suo motu cognizance of the admission of guilt by the Satyam Chairman and immediately proceed against him. The concerned Directors in the Satyam Board and the audit firm Pricewaterhouse Coopers (PwC) must also be held accountable for the gigantic fraud, and strict penal action should be initiated against them. It is noteworthy that PwC partners were earlier indicted for fraudulent accounting after the collapse of the Global Trust Bank.

    The CPI (M) calls upon the UPA Government to take immediate steps to safeguard the interests of the 53000 employees of Satyam Computers. Several departments and agencies including the Ministry of Corporate Affairs, SEBI, Andhra Pradesh Government and Mumbai Police have initiated probe into the Satyam affair. It is important to ensure proper coordination between the separate investigations and monitoring by a single Department of the Union Government. The entire fraud should be thoroughly and speedily investigated and all the beneficiaries of the scam brought to book.

  21. Some thoughts:

    1.Satyam’s clan-like management – This is not strange at all in Indian industry, especially in Indian IT industry.In fact, Satyam is actually much better than a firm like TCS (almost all senior mgmt is Tam-Bram and related to each other, with the exception of one Parsi EVP, who doesn’t seem to have any real power).Infy’s situation is almost similar to that of Satyam.

    2.Irregularities in governance – what can you expect of the IT industry in India when half the CVs are fake/doctored, over 95% projects fail to deliver on time and with the required quality, billing ‘mistakes’ abound, and the focus is exclusively on offshore leverage (from both clients and vendors)? And yet, the IT biggies in India get Good Governance Awards, and Chief Mentors of some companies lecture other industries on Governance?

    1. The huge land bank built up by Infy, Satyam and Wipro is currently unused, and will be brought into commercial market in future, by bribing Govt officials and politicians.These thousands of acres have been obtained at throwaway prices by the IT companies.Whose land? Who is asking any of these questions?

    4.Tax holiday for Indian IT majors – you may not believe it but since inception, the Infys, Wipros and Satyams of India are enjoying a tax holiday, unprecedented for any industry.I can understand a tax holiday during the initial years, but not now, when the top 4 cumulatively generate around $12 billion USD revenues; in contrast, a small business IT provider focused on domestic Indian industry gets taxed like hell.How can the Narayana Murthys of this world occupy a holier-than-thou position?

    5.Take the case of a simple labor law requirement in India; as per law, any establishment that employs more than 20 women, should arrange for day care/creche facilities at/near its premises.How many Indian IT firms do this at all their campuses?How many even have humane employment practices that consider the special needs of employees?

    But I still don’t think that what has happened in Satyam is an indicator of the rot in India; it indicates the rot that was always there, and will always be there in big business.I mean, why only talk of Enron? What about GE?

    I am afraid that the Left in India will talk up this scandal and press for more Govt control, arguing that lack of such control has led to Satyam and other companies following the lead of big, bad, american firms.I hate myself for saying this, but I think this is the one time they may be right.

    Satyam can still probably be turned around, because most of the current global big businesses have all faced such scandals, and succeeded in re-creating trust in their brands.

  22. 80 · satyamshivamsundaram said

    The CPI (M) calls upon the UPA Government to take immediate steps to safeguard the interests of the 53000 employees of Satyam Computers.

    Vote Bank, Vote Bank Loud and Clear. Since the CPI(M) is going blue in the face with sanctimonious glee about corporate malfeasance, how about investigating the CPI(M)’s own extensive business interests in Kerala? Conservatively estimated at $1 billion! A TV channel, newspapers, arrack franchises, a super-specialty hospital, amusement parks, extortion rackets. The CPI(M) thugs will burn down your farm in Kerala if they catch you growing cash crops instead of rice. Of course this happens only in the North, not in Southern Kerala, where the Acchayans cultivate 100s of acres of plantation crops, the CPI(M) needs their money, you see.

    Kumar_N Satyam’s clan-like management – This is not strange at all in Indian industry, especially in Indian IT industry.In fact, Satyam is actually much better than a firm like TCS (almost all senior mgmt is Tam-Bram and related to each other, with the exception of one Parsi EVP, who doesn’t seem to have any real power).Infy’s situation is almost similar to that of Satyam. The huge land bank built up by Infy, Satyam and Wipro is currently unused, and will be brought into commercial market in future, by bribing Govt officials and politicians.These thousands of acres have been obtained at throwaway prices by the IT companies.Whose land? Who is asking any of these questions?

    Another holy-roller! TCS is a Tata company, and contrary to what people think, the Tata family has always exercised control subtly over its group companies for over 8 decades now, spring cleaning the deadwood twice; first when JRD became the capo di tutti capi in the late 1940s and for the second time, when Ratan Tata took over after 20 years of his induction in 1972; elbowing out all capos such as Russi Mody, Darbari Seth, and Kerkar – one by one. All TCS top head hinchos have risen from the ranks, and in many cases began their careers with the Tata Administrative Service. The Tatas too have had recent brushes with dishonest managers, and have moved quickly to take corrective action. As for WIPRO and Infosys, (the latter is derisively referred to as Murthy Angadi in Mysore) the allegations fly thick and fast in Bangalore’s older pubs, and interestingly the ones hurling them are Kan(nnada)-Brahms! But since Azim Premji has a habit of flying coach/economy, lunching his team out to Noodles & Company, and he and Narayanamurthy have both turned down Z-Category security despite receiving threats via email everyday, their credibility is still intact. Anyone who wants to pull them up in the court of public opinion should have a go at them, rather than hurl allegatations on SM.

  23. “the allegations fly thick and fast in Bangalore’s older pubs, and interestingly the ones hurling them are Kan(nnada)-Brahms”

    Where are these ‘Bangalore’s older pubs’ where ‘Kannada Brahmins’ hurl allegations at Narayana Murthy?

    About land (at subsidized rates etc.) and Infosys: http://in.rediff.com/money/2006/jul/25infy.htm

    And Deve Gowda’s (note Gowda not a kannada brahmin) allegations – http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/wipro-takes-50-acres-why-does-infy-need-2000

    On Azim Premji’s frugality etc. – talk to some Wipro insider about how this is a carefully maintained PR stunt. Or observe any Wipro engineer on an H-1b visa in the US and see how the employees are treated/underpaid/overworked (often against US immigration and labor laws). The CEO flying economy does not cover up for underhand practices.

    And you could read Kumar’s comment again and verify with people who have work for these companies at higher levels to get a better understanding of the irregularities in governance, land grab at subsidized rates, permanent tax holidays that are part and parcel of Indian outsourcing shops which base their profits primarily on labor arbitrage.

    You are free to do your own research before hurling your own allegations on other anonymous posters’ allegations.

  24. Corporate governance, which seems to be the buzzword here, should have different objectives in India and the West. The aim in the West is to protect shareholders from Imperial CEOs, who have very little stake in the company in the form of Share-ownership. In India most, not all, listed companies are still controlled by the founding family and hence the aim has to be to protect the minority shareholders from the owner – managers ie the majority or controlling share holder.

    Also those comparing it with Bernie Maddof are way off the mark, that was a private investment firm with no oversight, running a ponzi scheme. Enron, Worldcom or Waste Management are better comparisons but the Satyam case the fraud was really ordinary. Cash and Cash Equivalents are the easiest to verify, there is no ambiguity on how they can be valued or marked to market. Raju claims to be the sole perpetrator but that seems extremely unlikely, I doubt the Chairman was passing journal entries.

    A few questions need to be asked

    Satyam’s claim of a 3% margin sound bogus, it is true for the fresh grocery section for a large retailer, certainly not for a Software firm. It is possible that the founding family has siphoned money away ?

    Did the banks or financial institutions collude and issue fake bank statement? I know for a fact that this is possible in India where a branch manager can issue a statement with false balances just to keep their biggest clients happy.

    What are the protections for Whistle-blowers in India? In this case there were none? It was the alleged perpetrator who blew the whistle.

  25. Samir (#84): “What are the protections for Whistle-blowers in India?”

    The protection per law or real protection? You know India is weak on social justice as compared to say the US. The law may provide ample protection but that does not mean much when laws are not respected or enforced, especially when the wronged party is weak as compared to the wrong-doer.

    A simple scenario: Someone encroaches your land and you file a case against him in court. After years of legal battles (based on the patience and contacts of the encroacher) you win the case. Will the court order automatically give you possession of land? In most places in India not, you would then have to use money, contacts and ‘influence’ to get the real job done – using the authorities (i.e. police) or hired muscle power to kick the encroacher out. What the movie ‘khosla ka ghosla’ for a funny but sadly realistic take on this.

    So you can imagine how alone a whistle-blower would be unless backed by some strong political or criminal force. And if she/he takes the help of authorities for protection, it is a simple matter of bribes/pressure to get enough information about the whereabouts of the whistle blower and extract revenge.

  26. 83 · Charvaka said

    “the allegations…interestingly the ones hurling them are Kan(nnada)-Brahms” Where are these ‘Bangalore’s older pubs’ where ‘Kannada Brahmins’ hurl allegations at Narayana Murthy? About land (at subsidized rates etc.) and Infosys: And Deve Gowda’s… On Azim Premji’s frugality etc. – talk to some Wipro insider about how this is a carefully maintained PR stunt…. And you could read Kumar’s comment again and verify with people who have work for these companies… You are free to do your own research before hurling your own allegations on other anonymous posters’ allegations.

    The plural of anecdote is anecdotes. As for the older pubs, I am not talking of even Mobo’s or Victoria (both no more and built over) but of speakeasies, where you sip a beer standing at the booze shop counter itself…But obviously you aren’t a Bangalore insider. Deve Gowda’s allegations are worth about 2 paise…no one takes him seriously given his only intreest in the state – carving out a fiefdom for his children, and obstructing any civic improvement project. I know plenty of Wipro insiders, including US citizens who have quit the likes SAIC, EDS, and IBM to work for Wipro, and don’t ever plan to work for an American consulting firm ever. True, the plural of anecdote is anecdotes, but I have one too many for your allegations to matter.

  27. “But obviously you aren’t a Bangalore insider.”

    Are you? Insider andhre yennu? Neevu Bengaluralli yesthu dinagallindha iddhira 🙂

  28. am a former student of MR Rao – one of the erstwhile independent directors of Satyam. Highly unlikely that he did not know about the fraud being perpetrated – far too smart!! And krishna palepu (HBS professor) who holds himself to be an expert on corporate governance earned over a million dollars per annum from consulting engagements from Satyam and related entities. Not only is a blatant violation of basic corporate governance but did Palepu declare all of this income in his tax return. GTB – Palepu -PWC Satyam – Palepu – PWC.

    Palepu and PWC seem to be the common denominator in the major frauds in India.

  29. Being a US listed entity wasn’t Satyam required to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley also? Which makes me wonder whether all that documentation and testing on controls over financial reporting can actually throw out such irregularities? If it can’t, as seems to be abundantly evident in this case combined with the alleged lackadaisical conduct of PwC then SOX too seems to ahve failed….what next then?

  30. 92 · Kavita Being a US listed entity wasn’t Satyam required to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley also? Which makes me wonder whether all that documentation and testing on controls over financial reporting can actually throw out such irregularities? If it can’t, as seems to be abundantly evident in this case combined with the alleged lackadaisical conduct of PwC then SOX too seems to ahve failed….what next then?

    Well, too huge of a topic for a blog-comment, but keep in mind, the optimal amount of fraud > 0 (as is the optimal # of murders, lest we all be tied to our beds)!

  31. 76 · Manju said

    72 · bytewords said
    i love how the nm’s of the world come out of the woodwork with news like this.
    i think nm is prema.

    I was just asking questions guys. Why so sensitive?

    I”ve used software engineers from india before and they are cheap and good. So, don’t go accusing me of being some ignorant, racist, american, which I am not.

    you guys need to more opent to non-indians like me who are just using this blog to learn more about your country and who are asking questions in good faith.

    I haven’t had a good experience with indian customer service agents. What’s wrong with saying that? I think the filipino’s are much more friendly and maybe that’s where the competition might come from — places like the phillipines and parts of English speaking Africa.

    I had another question about shabana azmi, but now i’m afraid to even ask it.

  32. is the clannishness of Indian business culture any worse than the cliqueishness (read old boy networks) of the American business culture. Nepotism is replaced here in the US by an insider sentiment. Correct me if I am wrong here.

  33. Kavitha@92,

    I don’t think SOX really helps to reduce the likelihood of fraud. Sec. 404 is a controls attestation. And any control can be circumvented in the presense of collusion. Sec 302 is a management attestation, that is really only worth the paper on which it’s written. In the case of Satyam, it’s clear that if controls were in place, they were circumvented, and the management attestations were false.

  34. I haven\’t had a good experience with indian customer service agents. What\’s wrong with saying that? I think the filipino\’s are much more friendly and maybe that\’s where the competition might come from — places like the phillipines and parts of English speaking Africa.

    Can you imagine where India, Phillipines and english speaking Africa would be today without the enormous advantages the english language bequeaths them?

  35. the whole, now deeply tarnished “India Shining” mythology.

    If you think that \”India Shining\” was a myth then why worry about the lie being tarnished?

  36. 98 · voiceofreason said

    is the clannishness of Indian business culture any worse than the cliqueishness (read old boy networks) of the American business culture. Nepotism is replaced here in the US by an insider sentiment. Correct me if I am wrong here.

    Could it be worse because of the caste system?

    The old boy network in America is slowly being diminished (I think).

    The president is an African-American who pulled himself up from the bootstraps. The head of Citibank is an Indian The head of Pepsi is an Indian woman The incoming surgeon general will be an Indian

    I think America may be much more open to diversity and is in some ways a more meritocratic society.

  37. Ramesh,

    I never use such language here but you are an idiot, I went to school with plenty of people from Hyderabad and must say you are way off base.

  38. Could it be worse because of the caste system?

    Just like the old-boy (read white male) prejudice is made worse, by the residual effects slavery, Jim Crow, segregation etc..etc. In fact there was Harvard University on the effect of “ethnic” names on employment chances, and the one with the “real,American” names got selected before the “ethnic” ones, for the same university. The old boy network in America is slowly being diminished (I think).

    Sure, LOL, For example there are just 2 black head coaches in college football. ESPN did a piece on that. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2783335. In the Fortune 500 CEO list only four are black http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21644144/ Yeah the old boy network is being dismantled (in your dreams that is).

    The president is an African-American who pulled himself up from the bootstraps.

    The president is WAS an African-American who pulled himself up from the bootstraps.

    The head of Citibank is an Indian The head of Wipro is a Muslim

    The head of Pepsi is an Indian woman The head of Biocon is an Indian woman.

    The incoming surgeon general will be an Indian The head of the Congress Party is a white Italian immigrant

    I think America may be much more open to diversity and is in some ways a more meritocratic society.

    Yeah, Tom Tancredo and Lou “damn job-stealing furriners” Dobbs might have something to say on that

  39. Contrary to what Kumar N. says Infosys is very differently run than Satyam. And about Tam Brams in top management – it is similar to Tam Brams dominating IIT and research faculties and has nothing to do with ‘family ties’. Anybody who has actually worked in Indian IT will know the respect Infy commands as an industry leaders. For the rest – steady your opinions before expressing them. You can’t compare a company like Infy founded on ethical Brahminical principles by the frugal 3-BHK dweller Narayana Murthy with a jugaad dhandaa like Satyam.