People talk trash about Air India, but it has one distinct advantage — if you’re lucky enough to fly to and from India on one of their newer 747s, which are equipped with personal video screens, you have a wealth of Indian TV, movies, and music to entertain yourself with, while eating Chiwda (instead of peanuts) and not-too-bad shrimp curry. (You still have to sit in a cramped little chair for 16-24 hours without losing your mind, but that would be the case on Lufthansa too.)
Our son wasn’t too much trouble on our recent Mumbai-to-Newark flight (he slept through much of it), so I was able to sample a range of subtitled Indian movies in different languages that I otherwise might not see. In some cases, I didn’t watch whole films — sometimes just an hour or so — but it was an interesting experiment to compare a group of films that normally are only seen by members of specific linguistic communities. People sometimes talk about Indian cinema as if the only films worth watching are made in Hindi and produced in Mumbai, but perhaps the folks who are saying that only watch those films?
The most entertaining, and highest production value film I watched was the Tamil film, Sivaji, The Boss, starring Rajnikanth (star of several YouTube “superhits,” including “Little Superman”). I initially enjoyed the sense of Tamil ethno-linguistic pride in the film (Rajnikant’s love interest is named “Tamizhselvi”), though it did start to get old after a little while (I did not see such an obsession with regional identity in the Malayalam, Marathi, Gujarati, Bengali, or Punjabi films I sampled on this flight. Is the Tamil-centricness of Sivaji, The Boss unique to this film?).
Rajnikanth’s manic physical comedy and dancing, and the film’s over-the-top sets and situations, are really why someone who is not a long-term Rajnikanth fan watches a film like this. I couldn’t say that the anti-corruption plot made any narrative sense, though there were some powerful “crowd” moments here and there; there’s just a whiff of the rough edges of actual Indian politics. More than anything else, it seemed like Rajnikanth’s mission in this film is to entertain the audience as fast as possible, and continue doing so until every last bit of amusement is squeezed out of every damn frame of the film. (I wish I knew where he gets the energy.)
Incidentally, Sivaji, The Boss was the most expensive Indian film ever made, in any language, as of 2007. It was a super-hit in the South, and successful even dubbed into Hindi. After Sivaji, The Boss, I sampled two Malayalam films. I watched most of a wonderful family comedy called Madhu Chandralekha, starring Jayaram and Urvasi. I have to say I definitely enjoyed the story about how the ordinary, unglamorous wife of a successful singer and composer becomes jealous of a glamorous young woman who comes into their lives. It felt very real and honest, and Urvashi (a regional actress who came out of “retirement” for this film) is convincingly unglamorous, if that expression can be permitted. (We have all seen movies television programs where an obviously incredibly beautiful woman tries to “frump” it as someone bookish and unpopular, but the audience knows it is only a matter of time before the Grand Makeover occurs, and Beauty Emerges Triumphant. Not so here.) Incidentally, here is a song from the film.
Also worth checking out is a Malyalam film called Smart City. Set in Cochi, a quick Google search revealed that this “honest man vs. the corrupt business establishment and gangster cronies” film seems to be based on a real, 2004 proposal in Cochi to build an “Internet City,” where a multinational corporation based in Dubai would develop a whole region of the city as a kind of high-end Internet/IT/Multinational hub. Though it is by no means an art film or a work of political propaganda, Smart City is quite serious in its opposition to this kind of “think big/get a piece of the action” approach to development, and touches on a sensitive and important issue that is much broader than just Kerala (i.e., the controversies over “Special Economic Zones”).
One small observation: both the Tamil film Sivaji and the Malayalam film Madhu Chandralekha had physical comedy about what happens when one eats absurdly spicy food. In Sivaji, Rajnikant coolly eats a plate of hot peppers to impress his love interest and her family, before allowing himself to spazz out in the bathroom. In Madhu Chandralekha, the jealous wife makes wildly spicy food for her husband to try and alienate him, because she doesn’t feel worthy of his love. Comedy of course ensues when the wrong person eats some of the food. Just coincidence, or is there a tradition of comedy over spicy food either in South Indian movies, or even Indian movies in general?
The Marathi film Bakula Namdeo Ghotale was much smaller in terms of production values or professionalism than either of the Malayalam films or the Tamil film I watched, but it was still entertaining, if not exactly Cannes Film Festival material. First, Bakula Namdeo Ghotale features actors in starring roles who look convincingly rural (i.e., the male stars all have “bad” teeth, and are not conventionally good-looking; see what I mean in this song from the film). The plot is nothing too exciting (a conniving Sarpanch falls in love with the wife of the village idiot; the wife fends off his advances and protects her witless husband), but, again, the actors held my attention because they seemed “real” to me.
I watched a little of the Punjabi film Ek Jind Ek Jaan, but quickly got bored and quit. What struck me here, by comparison to the Malayalam and Tamil films in particular, was just how low-budget and uninspired the film looked, even with an “over the hill” Bollywood star as the leading man (Raj Babbar). I should point out that there are some higher-end and more ambitious Punjabi films out there, so this is not a comment on the Punjabi film industry in general, so much as Air India’s particular selection. (That said, I have never seen a film that had Raj Babbar in a major role that I found watchable. Shaheed Uddham Singh, The Legend of Bhagat Singh, and LOC Kargil were all nauseatingly bad.)
I also watched a few minutes of a Gujarati film, but neglected to write down the title, and so can’t say anything about it. Like the Punjabi films Air India was showing, it looked rather cheap and conventional.
While most of the other regional films being shown by Air India have been released in the past two years, their two Bengali selections were both “classics,” from the 1970s and 80s. The one I watched on this flight was Aparna Sen’s 1984 art film, Parama, about a housewife who has a flirtation with a young, avant-garde photographer. It was very well done; with the photography theme, it reminded me a little of Antonioni’s Blow-Up, but with a nostalgic, Bengali high culture sensibility. The young actor Mukul Sharma, who played the photographer in the film, opposite Rakhee Gulzar, reminded me a little of Dustin Hoffmann in the 1970s.
Needless to say, making even half-assed comparisons between different regional cinemas would have been easier if Air India had been showing films comparable in scale and status. There would really be no point in comparing Aparna Sen’s Parama to something like Sivaji, The Boss.
Still, here are some sketchy thoughts: though it makes a big fuss out of adhering to Traditional Tamil Culture, Sivaji, The Boss is as over-the-top and glossy as any big, loud, Bollywood movie. This is not terribly surprising; there is a regular exchange of ideas and talent between the Hindi and Tamil movie industries, and watching this film I felt as if I were watching a Bollywood film that happened to be in the Tamil language. The only major difference might be the presence of Rajnikanth himself, with his utterly unique style and an iconic status that has no equivalent anywhere else.
The Malayalam films I sampled were smaller and less ambitious, but the trade-off is that they both had an honesty to them that I liked, even with dramatically different themes (married life/relationships on the one hand, and corruption/multi-national development on the other).
The other regional films I sampled were less compelling, though between the Gujarati, Punjabi, and Marathi films on offer, the only one I found watchable was the spirited Marathi film Bakula Namdeo Ghotale. I do not know if the naturalistic appearance of the actors or village settings is common in Marathi films; if so, it would have to be a reaction against the artificial sleekness and hyper-cosmopolitanism of Bollywood cinema — and ironic, given that Mumbai is actually in the state of Maharashtra. And because not much is written about Marathi films in English (most of the links that turn up in Google are simply various options for illegal downloading), I have no idea whether this film is typical or not.
Are there other recent films in regional language readers would recommend? Also, any recommendations for off-beat, “multiplex” oriented Hindi films? (I have had my fill of Bachchans and Khans for now.)
Although I have not seen the marathi movie you mentioned, I think it is a product of the recent breed, which is, as it seems to ride on the success of a few really good comedy productions, both in the theater and the cinema. Though most of the ‘mainstream’ marathi movies (i.e. the movies that have some production value, enough publicity and a fair amount of collection), you will find, are essentially comedy movies, few are good.(my own opinion)
I would recommend: “Valu”, “Tingya”, “Vastupurush”, “Dombivali Fast”, “Shevari”, “Dahavi Pha”, “Ek Hota Vidushak”, “Not Only Mrs Raut”, “Mukta”, “Doghi”.
Yo, good Lahori Punjabi films include: Maula Jut, Maula Jut 2: Jut in London, and Zalima
Any film with Sultan Rai, the Tupac Shakur of Lahoree cinema
Amardeep brings up
Heh,heh. Amardeep, when it comes to attitudes about their language, the Tamilians are worse than the French. I visited the Sri Lankan ghetto in Paris a little while ago. They refused to even serve me because I spoke in English. It is not that the Tamils there have learnt attitude from the French though. Just visit Tamilnadu and you will see what I mean.
Btw, my father is from Tamilnadu and my mother has some Tamil blood too. Because of this connection, and having been on the receiving end of more rudeness than anyone should have to endure, I think I have enough reason and data to back me up.
unlike ponniyin selvan, he agreed that agreed that the movie contained a fair bit of explict Tamil ethno-linguistic pride (which was my observation, just as it was yours
Yeah, because he is probably not aware of the history behind director Shankar and the scriptwriter Sujatha and can’t figure out the nuances. BTW, I like your handle. As a kid, I had a crush on a “settu ponnu”. 🙂
I visited the Sri Lankan ghetto in Paris a little while ago. They refused to even serve me because I spoke in English.
when i went to paris, on my first day i tried to get information at the metro about weekly passes – the ticket agent did not speak english, i didn’t speak french, but finally he asked if i spoke tamil! it didi make easier, but unlike your experience, he did try to speak a few words in english to help me out.
Just visit Tamilnadu and you will see what I mean. not in my experience. it is a really rare thing (i have not yet come across it yet) that speaking in english by non-tamilians in TN is frowned upon. in fact, most people i’ve seen have tried to impress with their english knowledge. however, did you mean an attitude because people know you’re tamil but speak in english? in that case, i could see some attitude from certain elements…
56 · Ponniyin Selvan said
actually, he grew up in madras all through and is well aware of these details.
maybe, he was capable of being more open to the notion of the movie trying to have it both ways on every issue: be it the issue of skin color where rajini goes through tremendous effort to lighten his skin tone, and then finally lectures shriya on why skin color preference is not good, while simultaneously mocking solomon papaiya and his daughters, or the notion that the girls in the nightclub dancing to western music are dissolute, and rajini would only be happy with a traditional tamil girl who can be found frequenting kovil and kulam (named tamizhselvi, no less!)
btw, language chauvinism has a long tradition in tamilnadu. there were of course the language riots in the 60s, and while that issue is not as emotive today, there are still pressures applied – for example, significant government incentives for movies to have tamil titles instead of english. for example, shankar’s upcoming movie with rajinikanth was called robot and has been renamed to endhiram (the tamil word for machine). this is a standard trend for several tamil movies, the only puzzling thing being why they even bother with the sham of an english title for a while before they announce the tamil one, with the obligatory newspaper article about the government carrots to do that.
also, there are a gazillion tamil songs which go on and on about what a wonderful language tamil is (a classic tamil song goes “thamizhukkum amudhendru peyar, andha thamizh inba thamizh engal uyirukkum ner”, which roughly means, tamil is like honey, and it is even more important/exalted than our lives) , or comparing the beauty of a woman to the beauty of tamil, or even songs that go on about how women should live up to the tamil values. i don’t know about other regional languages, but hindi certainly doesn’t have a preponderance of songs like this.
among southern states, i see tamilnadu being most touchy about these language issues. thankfully, they don’t seem to be as obsessed with the ethnic/native issue as in maharashtra (modulo the fact that it is still politically acceptable to voice support for the ltte in tamilnadu).
No. Just he is not aware of the history behind scriptwriter Sujatha’s thoughts. Ask him to read Sujatha’s various essays /articles / novels to find out where Sujatha stands. I have known people who have grown up in Chennai/Madras but cannot read / write Tamil.
I don’t think the examples you give can be treated as ‘chauvinism’.
59 · Ponniyin Selvan said
yes, you are the gatekeeper of tamil culture. he bows to you.
I never claimed so. Can he read / write Tamil ?. I just pointed out that he has to read Sujatha’s novels / articles to know what the script writer’s views are.
Sujatha is a great writer and he passed away last year after a wonderful career in both engineering and Tamil writing. Let me know if your friend has trouble finding his writings.
61 · Ponniyin Selvan said
“my friend” has read sujatha. and watched shankar too. including every one of shankar’s standard vigilante breaking the law by killing and stealing to fight the corrupt system movies scripted by sujatha. it’s the same plot recycled with new gimmicks every time. this has been shankar’s shtick for all his movies except for boys.
and yes, he can walk tamil, talk tamil, laugh tamil just like when superstar imitates amit-ji.
61 · Ponniyin Selvan said
movies are meant to be viewed as stand-alone pieces of art. if it turns out that gulzar writes a crappy film script (should such a thing be possible :)), it will be critiqued on its own merits. one cannot shirk criticism by saying, “you should read gulzar’s essays, poetry, and fiction to discern his ‘real,’ nuanced views.” the film in question can be contextualized within a larger body of art, but it’s not wrong to judge it purely on what it contains. one can judge Leni Riefenstahl’s ‘Wonder under water’ without referring to her reprehensible dealings with the third reich or her terrible politics. sujatha, rip, may be a wonderful writer as such, but sivaji could only be a blemish (disclaimer: IMO) on an otherwise stellar body of work. meanwhile, i guess my tamil-literate krishna-complexioned beau decided to speak up @ 58.
If your friend has really “read” Sujatha, it is surprising that he thinks the movie Shivaji tries to have it both ways. Sujatha’s views are well known through his writings.
I’ll try to get links to his Tamil writings later (if it’s available), for now read this obituary message from a fan.
http://malathi-writersblock.blogspot.com/2008/04/sujatha-rip.html
Sure, I’m critiquing the movie just by the scenes from the movie. There are far more references ridiculing the so called Tamizh societal values than the ones supposedly showing Tamil ethno linguistic pride.
I said in order to understand the nuances, you need to know the context which includes the scriptwriter/director’s leanings and the current state of the society that they are making the movie about.
For example, Amardeep responded with his other observation from the movie which validates my point even further.
“There are only two things you can’t talk about in Tamilnadu, skin color and chastity!”)
A test for you, do you know why the reference to chastity was brought in?.
hint: It has nothing to do with the movie’s narrative, but rather a critique of the Tamil society. 🙂
or maybe a specific reference to the khushboo-india today fiasco?
Yes, it’s with reference to the controversy about Kushboo’s comments with the character in the movie ridiculing the Tamil society’s banning the debate about chastity and skin color.
66 · Ponniyin Selvan said
yes, my friend is well aware of the fracas around khusbhoo, and suhasini, and thankar bachhan, and pmk and dalit panthers retaliation. as i said, you alone are not the gatekeeper of tamil culture.
as for the works and views of sujatha, he has written scripts for 4-5 shankar movies. apart from boys and jeans, shankar has essentially made the same movie over and over again: common man going outside the law to take revenge on corrupt politicians, usually with one exotic song number that comprises 60% of the cost of the movie, and some shockingly violent scenes. is my friend to assume from this that sujatha is a great fan of vigilante violence? you are confusing sujatha’s personal writing with his movie writing where his job is to get the frontbenchers applauding. of course, being sujatha, he displays skill with the tamil language that lesser writers don’t, but still, my friend doesn’t see where you get that these movies are some form of editorializing by sujatha.
as for the throwaway line about chastity, the movie had no qualms at all about painting all those women in the club as licentious right in the first scene, followed by rajini’s demand for the traditional, obedient tamil girl. of course, rajini has such dialogues in every movie – some variant of how the role of the woman is to be subservient to the man, especially when his movies like muthu and padayappa played off his rivalry with jayalalitha.
68 · Ponniyin Selvan said
of course, most recently shriya got into trouble for apparently wearing a dress that was considered too revealing during sivaji’s silver jubilee celebration. apparently, they took vandicholai chinnarasu’s heckling and exhortations to heart. so, the tamil obsession with this stuff is well known, and of course, movie after movie encourages this idea. even in the youth movies like chennai 600028, one of the major dramatic conflict scenes was that one of the lead’s friends was dating the guy’s sister, which got him very pissed off – he viewed it as a betrayal and a blemish upon the family. so, this stuff is perpetuated quite a bit by many movies – of course, there are movies where this isn’t the case too, but i think the general attitude is conservative on average, and rajini movies are definitely on the far side especially when it comes to dialogue about the appropriate role of women.
Settu Ponnu – how is it still ok to support ltte in TN? – http://www.google.com/search?q=vaiko+arrested either your head’s been buried in sand for a while or is this some deep seated disapproval of growing up alienated in a society too proud of its roots and mocking non-natives (as they define it)? This is pan-Indian problem – spoken to any tamilian who grew up in delhi speaking bad hindi?
First you created a strawman and then you are duplicating him. 🙂 I said I never claimed that I’m the gatekeeper already.
I gave examples on why the movie doesn’t advertise Tamil ethno linguistic pride as claimed and rather ridicules such pride. Let me make a list of scenes for both the scenarios.
Movie advertises Tamil pride:
1) Naming the heroine as ‘Tamizh Selvi’. 2) Heroine goes to temples and hence a cultured girl compared to other girls in jeans etc.. and hero’s preference for such girls
Movie ridicules Tamil pride:
1) Naming the two dark girls as part of the comedy track as angavai and sangavai and as daughters of the Tamil teacher. 2) Heroine ridiculing Rajini’s dark skin and hero indulging in theatrics to get over it. 3) Hero’s friend ridiculing the Tamil society on the issues of chastity and skin color
Now, regarding the temple going heroine/culture issue it is not specific to Tamil pride, rather I’d say all Indian culture thing. I believe even Hindi/Telugu movies consider temple going heroines as ‘cultured’.
So there is nothing in the movie that advertises the tamil pride other than the name of the heroine. I’d say that’s a weak case when compared with the direct attacks on Tamil society on the issue of skin color and chastity.
I further pointed out that the script writer and the director are not known for advertising virtues of a Tamil society rather than attacking what they consider as evils of the Tamil society. Shankar has this history of showing Tamil politicians/Governor/Officials/education system/caste based organisations in poor light.
Your other examples on Rajini’s other movies is irrelevant to this discussion.
vaiko was arrested as part of a political vendetta – ltte was a convenient excuse – as he was becoming more powerful. as late as last year, karunanidhi wrote poems mourning the death of some ltte leader. and he repeated his position after that too. of course, ltte operated with impunity in madras, including assassinating rival leaders in kodambakkam with impunity in the 80s. ltte support became nuclear hot after they assassinated rajiv gandhi, and vaiko was thrown in jail under the draconian pota using this excuse when he became a political nuisance. but it seems to be making a comeback now. not very sure, but even in the most recent sri lankan offensive, i think i saw some statements in support of ltte – but there has been enough chatter that it is not entirely clear how definitive that is.
72 · Ponniyin Selvan said
huh, that is just colorism, and taking advantage of the fact that the role was played by solomon pappiah who is a patti manram expert.
the movie just wants to have it both ways, that’s all. have a couple instances of throwaway modern sounding dialogue to cover up the deeply backward ideals it pushes.
as you say, sir. you are the boss. and i don’t mean bachelor of social service. over and out.
Thanks for that story Settu Ponnu; From thay story – 1) MK makes a point about the Supreme’s court ruling that expressing support for a banned group is not an offense – sounds like free speech. 2) JJ is clearly not a fan and Vaiko is and MK as usual is vague but pro tiger and even MK enforces the law when it comes to open canvassing/fund raising for tigers and arrests Vaiko (JJ already did eventhough Vaiko’s party was in her coalition during her regime) – Supporting LTTE is not a blanket OK in TN, there has always been opposition (Cho Ramaswamy) and support (Indira Gandhi) 3)Khushboo issue – the case filed against Khushboo’s remarks on Chastity offending tamil culture was thrown out of court since there is no definition of tamil culture, its adherents and who exactly was offended by perfectly legal remarks by a fellow citizen. Police protection was offered to Khushboo against the panthers and PMK goons. Rajni has mocked his darkness is numerous other movies, the whole skin whitening episode is toungue in cheek at fair and lovely for men
my point – yes Tamils are extra proud, are as prejudiced or less than rest of India – can make fun of themselves and their chauvinism & obsessions; Sivaji captures this irony/dichotomy well.
i think we can agree to disagree about sivaji. i ppreciate your response ponniyin selvan; nevertheless, i am not entirely convinced. but art is open to interpretation. afaic, subcontinental mainstream cinema usually plays it safe as far as heroines are concerned, and is almost never progressive wrt to them. there are certainly, exceptions but they are few and far in between. so given its milieu, sivaji, a mainstream commercial rajinikanth vehicle is not likely to depict a progressive and complex characterization of women. what i’ve wondered about, though, is the presence of a large number of women of north indian origin in south indian movies (when they are often not able to speak the language the movie is made in). established actors are one thing. a director might think, “only such and such actor will be able to pull off this role. we’ll have someone dub for them.” but the women i’m talking about play run-of-the-mill pretty girl roles and debut in conventional south indian movies. why is that? what is the general reaction of the audience (most seem to not mind/care; i see ponniyin selvan is a shriya* fan)? have there been debates in local media about this phenomenon? is this a relatively recent development?
*she grew up in haridwar, right?
also, have there been male leads in the various south indian movie industries who don’t speak tamil/telugu/kannada/malayalam? i’ve heard that jeetendra used to act in south indian movies, but are there any recent examples?
settuponnu (nimbal pitaji, kaisa irukkan?), my theory, Tamil hero is one who the individual aspire to become and heroine is one who the individual aspire to win over, Akshay Kumar/Shahrukh cannot pass off as a Tamil hero, but for sure Katrina Kaif can.
hari ohm, not saying that you’re point about heroes versus heroines isn’t valid, but that stands for the Hindi film industry as well. A majority of the heroines in the Bombay industry are either full or half (usually their actress mom) South Indian or Bengali, but you don’t see too many South Indian or Bengali heroes. As a side not, have you seen Abhishek lately, he’s in Mani Ratnam’s Ravana and totally looks like a Southie hero (IMO, he looks so much better now).
I really enjoy watching old Bimal Roy (Bandini, Sujata, Do bigha Zameen, Kabuliwala) and Guru Dutt (CID, Mr and Mrs 55, Pyaasa, Kaaghaz ke phool, Sahib bibi aur Ghulaam)films. Also, ’80s and early ’90s DD serials are gems that I perhaps didn’t value enough when they were first aired. Mirza Ghalib- the entire series is available on DVD, and has excellent production value- screenplay by Gulzar, (lyrics by Ghalib!),excellent acting by mostly NSD type actors led by the Naseer and music by Jagjit Singh- can be watched endlessly. Bharat ek Khoj and Tamas are also available at most big video stores in India.
Another intersting experiment that I did was to watch a few really C grade Mithun movies. There was one that was called ‘Badla behen ki izzat ka’. You may not believe me, but it was a two in one movie- a common first half with two different second halves. The one we saw had a social theme where Mithun Da’s handicapped sister is rejected by society and the marriage market, and commits suicide to protect him from Dowry related bankruptcy.He is so shaken that he renounces his Gaon ki Gori love interest and marries a similarly disabled girl. A waiter from our canteen saw a version in which she is raped and killed by the local zamindar’s son, resulting in a dance of death and destruction by the super dancer. No need to say that I drew the short straw…
I just watched Dil Kabaddi and liked it a lot.. then found out that it’s a ripoff, story for story, from Woody Allen’s “Husbands and Wives.” Bheja Fry also – great movie – but it’s just “Le diner des cons” redone.
I watched Omkara and Dor on the plane to India in 2006 and both of those were superb. For more recent Bengali films, Anuranan is a good one to start with – has Rahul Bose and Raima Sen as two of the main characters.
I’m still waiting to see Aamir – wanted to see it in Delhi but now I guess I have to find it on Netflix or something.
There’s some good Hindi ‘film’ out there but I think you really have to search for it.
This site has some very interesting non desi perspective on popular Indian cinema.
58 · settuponnu’s paiyan said
Can someone explain to me why bollywood “actors” are even called actors?
They don’t sing, they lip synch.
They don’t dance that much because the dance moves are done in short cut/takes so you don’t have to be a very good dancer
And since more than half the movie is singing and dancing, they don’t have to memorize verbal lines or even express themselves.
So, why is it called acting at all?
Nandita Das is a real actress, but Priyanka Chopra is not.
Rahul Khanna is a real actor, but Shahrukh Khan surely is not.
You get my drift…
Funny NOn Desi reviews : Planet Bollybob and Stomp Tokyo(site being rearranged now)
84 · Prashant said
i’m sorry but i don’t recall other non-hindi speaking parts of india (take himachal, kashmir, punjab, incoming sindhis) reacting to hindi language chauvinism. perhaps you can admit that certain leaders chose to make this an issue in the south? regional leaders in india have tended exploit linguistic affinities. even nehru criticized tpurshottamdas tandon for his desire to impose non-hindi speaking regions of india. this predates potti sriramulu’s fasting and telugu agitation for andhra pradesh, the earliest demand to carve out a bigger state (madras). this was followed by the maharashtra-gujarat bifurcation. it (the call for not imposing hindi by national non-south indian leaders) also predates the language riots of the 1960s. surely you realize that a lot of non-hindi speaking persons hesitated to make english the working national language of india, thinking this to be a continuation of the status quo after independence. this may not have been practical in the long run (i don’t believe that, but i can see the infrastructural requirement to introduce hindi as third language is probably not top order for a state that has other developmental concerns). i understand that people are wont to preserve their cultural heritage, but it’s not an extraordinary for some people to discard the language of the imperial entity as the national language. if there was a compelling reason (say population), to have tamil as the national language after independence, i’d be the first one to support it. you just take it for granted that we (persons of non-hindi speaking origin whose grandparents learnt to speak hindi in adulthood post-independence) have some kind of irrational “fixation” with hindi. we don’t.
Though I rarely watch Hindi or regional movies, I did enjoy Sivaji – The Boss. Of course it’s very over the top, and the plot is questionable, but in the end, we’re going to see Rajnikanth put on a show.
There are a few other jokes in there that might be more appreciated by people with Tamil movie exposure. The movie pays tribute to prominent Tamil movie actors like Sivaji Ganesan, MGR and Kamalhasan. There are a few inside jokes (Parashakti hero etc.) and Ranji has two incarnations in the movie: starting out as Sivaji and ending up as M.G.R. I recall one or two fight scenes that were choreographed in Sivaj Ganesan’s typical style.
87 · settuponnu said
If there was a compelling reason (if population is the reason why don’t we have rats as our national animal instead of tiger? or crow as our national bird instead of peacock), to have hindi as the national language after independence, i’d be the first one to support it. you just take it for granted that we (persons of non-hindi speaking origin whose grandparents learnt to speak hindi in adulthood post-independence) have some kind of irrational “fixation” with hindi. we do, is that why you have been barking in this board for so long about how tamilians dont learn hindi? The day North Indians learn some South Indian language is the day Tamilians will be more than happy to learn hindi. Till then, Good Day.
What’s worse is that younger people from elite (and now even urban middle class families) are not learning their own language well! You have Tamils who barely know Tamil, Punjabis who barely know Punjabi, and plenty of Hindi-speakers’ kids who barely know Hindi. I have it from a good source that in Ahmedabad amongst the ‘Hi-Fi’ set, the younger English-medium educated kids don’t really know Gujarati well. This is a pan-India problem, where English is getting more and more entrenched as time goes on. India is at the stage Ireland was in about two centuries ago…a stage where the majority still speak their native tongue but conditions are ripe for English to take-over in a generation or two. When Ireland went from predominantly Irish-speaking to mainly English-speaking, it happened rapidly and without fancy schools or modern media…it happened while most Irish were still starving, uneducated, landless peasants living in their own villages and towns.
settuponnu – although i cannot deny a certain (more heightened) anti-hindi sentiment amongst tamilians, i cannot say that it is not without reason. tamilians are not against other desi languages – and they do pick them up when they are living both within and without TN. in fact, i would say far more many tamilians who shift to other states quickly pick up that state’s local language than e.g. a hindi speaker who moves to TN. indeed, you can still find several native hindi speakers who have lived in TN for several years without knowing the language. furthermore, and this is from my personal experience, tamil is somehow considered inferior to hindi by hindi-speakers. as opposed to my desi friends who come from non-hindi backgrounds, those of my desi friends who come from strictly hindi-urdu backgrounds have very little regard for tamil. in fact, the entire grouping of the “south” as one region reflects the fact that many of them are not even aware of the differences between these regions and their languages. a little acknowledgment of equality (from all parties) would be nice.
amitabh – yes, it really is very sad. i think i prob. speak better tamil than e.g. my very “poshly” educated cousin – and this in spite of the fact that tamil is not our mother tongue vs the fact that she spent her entire childhood in madras. and her classmates are almost all in the same boat, save for the ones who chose tamil as one of their additional languages.
90 · Amitabh said
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nice, i am learning tamil slowly (off and on, i am slowly practicing the alphabet, and everyday phrases; but to be fair, i read south indian writers only in anthologies and in translation. the reason i care about learning tamil isn’t some exalted scholarly reason, rather a very personal one). i learnt hindi at school. come to thing of ut, i was taught various regional songs at school: especially tamil, kannada, telugu, and bengali songs. my parents taught me how to speak my mother tongue from the beginning (which is not that close to hindi and not even written in the devnagari script). i understand that many north indians don’t realize that tamil is a classical language with a very rich literary heritage. but let me tell you there is no dearth of south indians who think of northerners as coarse (especially punjabis seem to get a lot of love) and say so at many occasions. btw, saa, to reiterate: if you were that aware of “north india” you would realize that all “northerners” do not speak hindi as their first language. and again, i will say that it is most practical to have a national language that is spoken by a majority of speakers. second, i think it should be people’s choice to learn it, although they should have an affordable option to acquire it. third, a lot of non-south indian leaders were especially vociferous that hindi not be imposed on south india. fourth, regional leaders took advantage by setting up some extremist politicians as the opponents, trying to show that south indian culture was under siege, when it was more than likely that parliament was not going to ratify imposition of hindi. in any case, learning hindi (or any new language) is not a bad thing; as long as people have the option of learning the regional language and its promotion is adequately funded. what is the problem if a sixth grader chooses to learn hindi, if she has studied tamil and english earlier? why does it always have to be either hindi or tamil or english? why can’t a kid have the option taking the languages she likes? people have varied career plans and interests; they might decide that they want to go to college in a different region or work in the central government as IAS officers who will be posted around the country, so why not allow them to expand their linguistic skills. now imagine if asin hadn’t learnt hindi at a younger age 🙂 she’d have a much harder time expanding her career if she’d wanted to enter the bombay film industry. on the whole, i think this linguistic states bs has had a net negative effect. very few regional publishing industries are profitable; kids have stopped reading and learning regional languages in any serious way; very little systematic research is happening at indian universities; on the other hand, politicians have used linguism to insidious ends; bollywood does horrible impressions of various linguistic communities; many people think other linguistic communities are inferior and much too different from themselves.
ps: i assume that the tiger was chosen as the national animal because we’re one of the few places on earth that has them. i do believe that india doesn’t have a monopoly on rats.
91 · ak said
with all due respect, ak, i have seen people who move to new states pick up the regional language (and not only people from TN). it is not uncommon to see women speak 4-5 completely different languages. for some reason, i’ve come across only women who have that gift of picking up languages wherever they live for some extended period. also, the north is frequently clubbed as one region, when there is also an incredible diversity of language here as well (as saa demonstrates). yes, i believe this whole my-language-is-superior business has got to stop, and i know a lot of people will be offended on sepia, indian folks need some lessons in PC talking. regionalism and linguism are second nature to people. now it’s completely acceptable to make fun of accents and ham up mannerisms in public. that needs to stop. the same people who make fun of ‘madrasis’ and ‘punjabis’ in desh become very sensitive when they get jobs in US. if we can be decent to each other in the states, why can’t we be nicer in india? i think indian+south asian literary blogs are doing a nice job by highlighting the good stuff in their particular regions. i’ve learnt a fair bit about regional literature online, although i’m no expert. kudos to those extraordinary bloggers who write beautiful reviews and make excellent recommendations! back in the day, when i went to bookfairs at age 5-6, when india didn’t have gleaming bookstores, the children’s book trust used to have titles in translation. but when i was about 10-11 the coming of crossword et al really homogenized desi publishing. now all kids read sweet valley, artemis fowl, and harry potter…which is ok. at least, they’re reading. but it would be nice to have regional themed books. i mean, imagine showing your toddler affordable picture books that illustrate sights and sounds from kerala, or delhi, or bombay, or calcutta, or hyderabad! how awesome would that be! ok, i dont have a toddler, but i think it might be fun 🙂
Yes, the same reason everybody is called an actor in Hollywood …
settuponnu:
Your statements on the language issue are wrong at many levels. Since this blog is about discussing movies and many of the readers are 2nd gen Americans who probably have no bones to pick, I’m not going into details. If you want to know more, read the parliamentary debates around 1965.
Amitabh:
I agree that English is a bigger threat to Indian languages though I’m not as pessimistic.
95 · Ponniyin Selvan said
ponniyin selvan, i agree this is off-topic and we’ve had a respectful conversation wrt to ‘sivaji.’ nevertheless, let me make it clear that i have no bone to pick. in fact, you were embroiled in the back and forth between you and settuponnu’s paiyan where a person of tamil origin (therefore, more qualified that i am) disagreed with your (mostly politically convenient) reading of ‘sivaji.’ instead of respecting his views, the first thing you declared was that his reading of his was probably not nuanced. his comments speak for themselves, but i wonder how you would have treated a tamil-speaking person, who wasn’t a reader of sujatha, or second generation, or not famililar with sankar’s work? does one have to prove their culture cred before expressing her opinions?
just to be crystal clear: ‘you are wrong…’ is not really a productive debate strategy. i did not for argue for a language to be forced on unwilling learners; i merely asked for more choice for those wanting to pursue languages based on their plans and objectives. thirdly, i claimed that all north indians don’t speak hindi for a first language. four, at least some non-hindi speakers post-independence would not want the language of imperial business to be the national language. afaic, these are four relatively non-controversial statements. please stop perceiving slights when none are intended, and at least bother to disguise your condescension. and once more, because i mean it from the bottom of my heart (apparently it wasn’t clear in my lengthy posts above):
Tamil speakers should not be compelled to learn Hindi by the Indian state.
I hope this statement will not be misunderstood.
87 · settuponnu said
For one I’d imagine that a lot of them were not as politically influential as distinct from being political(-lly involved?). The politicians in even the south initially supported(or were the ones doing) the Hindi imposition as the sole language of government communication(NOT as a third language as you seem to imply later in your reply). The politically influential, which at that time would include administrators for a large part were from the south. I’d suggest that they were simply the lot that could mobilize. The other lot that could politically mobilize, the bengalis also protested the Hindi imposition.
So basically the whole of the south(the first widespread Anti-hindi protests were in the Madras Presidency opposing C. Rajagopalachari’s Hindi imposition) and Bengal, a good half, geographically, of India is not large enough? You’re trying to make this out to be some kind of dissenting minority kind of thing.
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blockquote> even nehru criticized tpurshottamdas tandon for his desire to impose non-hindi speaking regions of india. this predates potti sriramulu’s fasting and telugu agitation for andhra pradesh, the earliest demand to carve out a bigger state (madras). this was followed by the maharashtra-gujarat bifurcation. it (the call for not imposing hindi by national non-south indian leaders) also predates the language riots of the 1960s.
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I’m not sure I understand your point here? All you’re proving is that linguistic chauvinism is not something exclusive to tamils. Which is what you were making it out to be, with your inclusion of the Anti-Hindi riots in your earlier arguments.
Hindi was never envisaged as the third language. It was envisaged as the ONLY language of government correspondence, entrance exams to government jobs etc.
And the perceived need to throw of a foreign language may well have been part of the intent. But replacing one foreign language with another is hardly the best of ideas and protesting such a measure hardly chauvinistic. Further back in history there were arguments about Urdu Vs Hindi too. There seems in this discussion a sense that there is no chauvinism associated with Hindi. History as well as personal experience disabuses me of that notion.
I have no idea why you are being so defensive. If you want to learn Hindi, well… good for you. I see no ill in learning new languages. Just in forcing them down people’s throats. I still don’t see how someone not wanting to learn it in a country, which was/is explicitly sub-divided linguistically, is chauvinistic.
does one have to prove their culture cred before expressing her opinions?
Not necessarily. But if they are refuting someone I guess they need to have at least known the basics. Apologies if my tone was condescending. If I don’t know something and someone points that out, I’d gladly accept that. I’d not complain that other person was condescending.
i did not for argue for a language to be forced on unwilling learners; i merely asked for more choice for those wanting to pursue languages based on their plans and objectives.
That’s fine and I agree with that. Practically thinking, we need to first get everyone up to speed in at least one language, then think about multi lingual skills.
But you also said,
on the whole, i think this linguistic states bs has had a net negative effect. and regional leaders in india have tended exploit linguistic affinities.
This is what I found wrong. Let me explain the issue in brief. If you trace the history of linguistic organization of India, you’d find that it is actually Congress and Gandhi who organised the Congress according to the linguistic regions in 1920 when the whole movement took off. And that culminated in the linguistic states that was actually a promise made by the Congress leaders prior to Independence. There is no way India could have built a successful democracy without reorganizing into linguistic states.
Moreover, showing that other non-Hindi states did not oppose Hindi is a weak argument. There is a whole lot of difference between languages. languages spoken in neighboring regions tend to have overlaps and commonality and as the geographic distance increases the distance between the languages increase. For example, I can figure out the differences between Kannada / Telugu / Malayalam and Tamil but cannot differentiate Mythili and Bhojpuri, and I believe it is probably the same for a Bhojpuri or Mythili speaker in regards to the south indian languages. I agree that Hindi acts as a link and common language between diverse North Indian languages but that doesn’t make it a good candidate all over India.
We don’t really need a “national” language as used in the narrow sense in India, where if you drive across 200 miles across North / South / East / West you’d find an appreciable diversity in language / food / dressing / culture etc. Does Europe have a “national” language ?.
I admit that in the heat of the moment after Independence, people wanted to dismiss the alien / imperial language (the funny thing is that I read one MP wanted to throw the numerals out too). Add to that the fight between Hindus and Muslims between whether Sanskritised Hindi / Persianised Urdu needs to be used as a national language just before the bloody partition. I believe Gandhi wanted Hindustani.
But then we need to move on with what is practical, after all we did not dig out the railway tracks. 🙂
Maybe not on this flight, but I have noticed (so have many of you I guess) the Punjabi bias in most Hindi movies. The only time you come across a south indian character is when there is comic relief involved. Most heros will be named Raj Malhotra, or Ravi Verma though they might all be students in a Mumbai college.
This bias is probably because of the over-representation of Punjabis in the Hindi film industry, but is quite interesting nonethelessss.
yes, but even at the time of independence skepticism was expressed about linguistic states by leaders like patel and nehru and once the separatist movements started, nehru reiterated the slippery slope of linguistic states.
from wikipedia article on samyukata mahrashtra samiti:
i think we have tremendous problems with democracy because of linguistic states. it has sowed the seeds of separatism; it is used for consolidation of local power broking (cf. the recent movements on the creation of telangana); weakened the center in undesirable ways; created tons of discrimination in employment (if you see patterns of hiring in delhi university or lower levels in central government, entire departments will contain legions of people from one region hiring one another because it is well-recognized that creating a lobby of like individuals consolidates power; rather than taking language to be a source of cultural pride and bonding, we are using it as the currency of political power; the success of linguism has also encouraged casteism: local leaders are realizing that if you create a community that identifies with you, it’s a steady votebank. in the recent rajasthan elections, the biggest criterion for choosing a chief minister was that he be from the right caste (should he be jat or not?). linguism has only deepended the scourge of votebank politics. i don’t believe it has strengthened democracy.
let me remind you, that the railway tracks were built with our labor and financed by our taxes. so i see no reason to dig them out 🙂 some will claim that “english was forced down our throats……..” though. you mention europe as a place where there is no national language. but europe is a place where people learn multiple languages through childhood and education is provided to learn the local language and other frequently-used ‘dominant’ languages. which is exactly what i am arguing for. a state that allows competence in multiple languages if one so desires.
settuponnu:
Again there are many mistakes in your statements, I’d ignore responding to it. I don’t see any refutation of my points in your comment. Patel / Nehru and RSS thought of not encouraging separatism based on language because of the recent bloody partition between Hindus and Muslims.
As the events show they are clearly wrong. Division of India into linguistic states and allowing them some amount of autonomy to run their own states (though there is still much to be done) has actually made India stronger. Look at how Pakistan disintegrated or the strife and civil war in Afghanistan between various ethnic groups. It is really a stretch to take your examples of nepotism and corruption and blame it on linguistic states. 🙂
You claim indirectly that English was forced down on our throats but then go on to suggest Hindi should be learnt (though not by force). We’ll learn whatever language that helps us to get better. And Hindi does not make the cut yet.. I never claimed students should never learn English. The best option is for folks to learn the local language plus one link language, English serves as the link between different states and different countries. Ofcourse people with resources are free to learn any language of their choice, but that should be upto them, why should the govt., spend any tax money.
Clearly Hindi is a foreign language to many of us. A lot of people get caught up with the narrow idea of “nation” / national language / national animal etc… We should also desigate a “national washing machine” :-). As I said earlier, India is much too diverse.
101 · PonniiyinSelvan said
obv. you’re incapable of following and of recognizing facts contradicting you. but ok i’ll “ignore it” i’m not sure you know how central adminsitration in delhi works, but i’ll “ignore it” i don’t see how choice =”should be learnt” but i’ll “ignore it”
how does my
differ from your:
i like videocon because it is indegenously produced. maybe its manufactured in north india? does that make it “foreign?” can you please lobby for excusing import duties in TN? thanks muchly 🙂
PS: did you finally read the CBSE syllabus to see if the southern states had been really been sidelined as you claimed they had? your general revisionism/complete misreading of my comments is starting to get amusing at this point. feel free to have the last word. i don’t want to be typecast as the “north indian” out to oppress a tamil individual one more time.