“I am an American”: Sonal Shah’s New and Improved Statement

Let me start by posting Sonal Shah’s newly-released statement in full, as one goal of this post is to let readers judge her words for themselves:

I was recently maligned by a professor at a college in Connecticut who wrote an article in CounterPunch accusing me of association with Hindu extremism. Then, a few days ago, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, former Republican Senator from Pennsylvania, published an editorial in the Philadelphia Inquirer, to which this site linked, that echoed the CounterPunch accusations. These attacks sadden me, but they share one other thing in common: the accusations are false.

In reaction to these attacks, my closest friends — and many strangers — have rallied to my side. I am touched by this outpouring of support. And as painful as this episode has been for me personally, I welcome the opportunity to discuss this issue with the seriousness that it deserves, but the conversation should proceed on the basis of verified facts and reasoned argument, not innuendo and defamation.

Indian politics and history are contested and emotive, but also unfamiliar to most Americans. I understand why so many Indians and Indian-Americans feel strongly about religious extremism in India, because I share the same concerns.

I am an American, and my political engagements have always and only been American. I served as a U.S. Treasury Department official for seven years, and now work on global development policy at Google.org. And I am honored to serve on the Presidential Transition Team of President-elect Obama while on leave from Google.org.

I emigrated from India at the age of four, and grew up in Houston. Like many Americans, I remain proud of my heritage. But my engagement with India has been exclusively cultural and humanitarian. After the devastating earthquake in Gujarat in 2001, I worked on behalf of a consortium of Indian-American organizations to raise funds for humanitarian relief. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad of America (VHP-A), an independent charity associated with the eponymous Indian political group, was among these organizations, and it was the only one to list my name on its website. I am not affiliated with any of these organizations, including the VHP-A, and have not worked with any of them since 2001.

The experience with the Gujarat earthquake did, however, teach me an important lesson. It pointed up a lack of dedicated infrastructure to help alleviate suffering in India, so together with my brother and sister, I founded Indicorps, an organization modeled on the U.S. Peace Corps that enables young Indian-Americans to spend a year in service to marginalized communities in India. The fellows come from every religious background, and have worked among every religious community in India. Indeed, some Indicorps fellows focus on inter-faith dialogue as part of their projects.

In 2002, Gujarat suffered one of the most profound tragedies in its long history, when extremist political leaders, including some associated with the VHP, incited riots that resulted in the deaths of thousands. Had I been able to foresee the role of the VHP in India in these heinous events, or anticipate that the VHP of America could possibly stand by silently in the face of its Indian counterpart’s complicity in the events of Gujarat in 2002 — thereby undermining the American group’s cultural and humanitarian efforts with which I was involved — I would not have associated with the VHP of America.

Sadly, CounterPunch and Senator Santorum have suggested that I somehow endorse that violence and the ongoing violence in Orissa. I do not – I deplore it. But more than that, I have worked against it, and will continue to do so. I have already denounced the groups at issue and am hopeful that we can begin to have an honest conversation about the ways immigrant and diaspora communities can engage constructively in social and humanitarian work abroad. (link)

I was happy to see a believable account of how Shah’s name appeared on the VHPA website as a coordinator for earthquake relief in 2001. Shah doesn’t specifically address the statements from a VHPA spokesman to the effect of “she was part of our leadership council for three years,” but there is a clear and convincing account of what she now believes about the VHP as an organization in India, as well as a clear statement about Gujarat 2002. I think we should also not overlook the statement “I am an American” that is here: she considers her personal political commitments to be first and foremost oriented to the American political landscape. I think this fact is important to remember whenever we talk about 2nd generation South Asian Americans’ relationships to specific political issues within South Asia.

After the fold, some thoughts following a personal meeting I had with Anand Shah, Sonal Shah’s younger brother, today in Philadelphia.

First, Anand is a pretty intense person — he had a lot to say about the work he and his siblings have done with Indicorps. What came through is a real passion for the kind of work Indicorps does, namely help people find NGOs in India that need hard-working, compassionate people who have skills that can help people all over India. I got the strong sense that Anand would infinitely prefer to be talking about his experiences on that front in India (where he has lived full time since 2002), than dealing with this attack on his sister’s reputation. (Though he is an extremely passionate defender of his sister, don’t get me wrong.)

Second, I get the sense that at least these two Shah siblings are “doers” rather than “talkers.” In our conversation today, Anand repeatedly emphasized his desire to work with people of different political stripes, if it can result in positive outcomes for people in need. He seemed especially impatient with lefty academic types in the U.S., who tend to talk a lot about poverty over dinner at pricey restaurants in New York City. He sees himself bi-partisan in the Obama vein — if a conservative wants to work with him to get something done that will have a positive impact, he’ll go there. These folks are pragmatists, not ideologues.

Third, he stressed the need for second-generation South Asian Americans (the target readership for this blog, incidentally) to take charge of our own self-representation, and not leave it to people like Vijay Prashad. Many of us have complicated affiliations that don’t fit the Indian paradigm of “hardcore religious” or “hardcore secular/Marxist.” For example, some of us have strong connections to religious identity (and associations that come with those strong connections), but nevertheless also would want to be identified as tolerant and progressive when it comes to the broader social order. (I’m thinking of my friends over at blogs like The Langar Hall, or perhaps Ali Eteraz [who has stopped blogging]. And I’m also referring to the religious youth camps that I discussed in my previous post on “Yankee Hindutva”)

Fourth, he agreed with my assessment that all this close attention to an association in Sonal Shah’s past is a bit insane given the gravity of the ongoing communal problem in India, where a person’s political and religious affiliations generally are worn on one’s sleeve. (No one needs to snoop and speculate to find out what you really think; chances are, it’s right out there in the open.)

Sonal Shah, I’ll say again, has never been heard to say anything remotely intolerant — and she’s not exactly been a shrinking violet when it comes to speaking engagements over the past few years. It’s also not clear that she ever did anything for the VHPA other than this role as an earthquake relief coordinator in 2001 (which she describes as only one part of a larger effort involving a consortium of organizations). In her own narrative of this association, as well as her brother’s account of it that I heard in person today, this was not a sustained or major involvement. Their decision to found Indicorps emerged precisely out of a need to establish a mechanism by which second generation Indian Americans could channel their desire to do good secularly, specifically where it would be of real benefit in India.

I hope there is enough evidence out there now that Sonal Shah is not some kind of ideologue for the Hindu right (in fact, she is not an ideologue at all). Moreover, her role as a member of the Obama transition team has had no involvement with policy related to India, so why exactly are we still talking about it?

It’s by the standard of Indicorps that Anand Shah wants to be judged — and I for one am willing to give him that.

340 thoughts on ““I am an American”: Sonal Shah’s New and Improved Statement

  1. 148 · Johnson said

    Stick to watching Priya Rai movies with your blood boiling, Mr Pooter on the computer.

    This is simply brilliant! I think there should be an Indian remake of Walter Mitty featuring Moornam.

  2. Moonsamy,

    this is really the last time I will respond to you on this thread. Given that you don’t know one of the few people to actually make a living by political blogging, especially someone who actually works for CAP and has fisked Clinton and Clintonian policies over the years, and that you have apparently not read VP’s first counterpunch article (in which CAP, Clinton and other bogeyman are referenced repeatedly), you should be treading carefully here. I don’t traffic in meta-discussion about which dialectics are acceptable and which are not–I’m far more concerned with what people have DONE and WRITTEN. VP has DONE nothing and has WRITTEN nothing but vague innuendo–“i have my suspicions” may pass muster for Hannity but it does not in the world of rational observers.

    perhaps Chief Editor Korir at African Press International will soon inform us all of the impending release of an audio recording in which SS swears fealty on Gowalker’s sanctified sandals and pledges to screw over the Muslims wherever she may be.

  3. 152 · Nayagan said

    Moonsamy, Given that you don’t know one of the few people to actually make a living by political blogging, especially someone who actually works for CAP and has fisked Clinton and Clintonian policies over the years

    Oh, I see. Matt Yglesias is a “doer.” Got it.

  4. 114 · Amrita said

    You and I and Rajesh will not become famous through these posts– I meant people who publish in journals, appear on talk shows, etc.

    have you heard of the phrase ‘public opinion?’ we are not famous, but it is we who are the statistics in gallup polls. we are the elsuive demographics that pollsters keep track of. if anyone wanted to figure out a quick informal word on what s. asians though about the sonal shah fiasco, where do you think they would go?? google ‘sonal sha.’ this site is the third link.

    if you didn’t understand my previous comment, let me break it down for you. you’ve been going on and on about how criticisms of sonal shah stem from a personal jealousy (you call her critics crabs-in-a-bucket). you won’t consider them legitimate concerns. otoh, when you cheerlead for sonal shah, you could be accused for shilling for her on sepia. if you expect your comments to be read as sincere and honest opinions, accord the same respect to others instead of basless mind-reading (‘oh, you’re prolly jealous.’)

  5. I keep feeling that SS is being dishonest about this whole issue. She only clarifies and explains things when she has been outed on them by others, and even then keeps silent on important issues (like the issue of her being on the VHP-A’s governing board, or her continuing speaking engagements for VHP/ RSS proxies till very recently).

  6. Port, I know that many of “my boyz” are campaigning against cow-slaughter, but I’m just trying to emphasize the “diversity” of the VHP-A

    your sentence reminded of this phrase, and generations of desis who continue to listen to the same music for decades.

    ponniyin selvan misunderstands me. obviously you’re not a terrorist, you have now contributed money toward violence. to me, you’re not much different than a moderate muslim who puts a bit of money in a JuD donation box, with full knowledge of what JuD stands for as well as its relationship to the LeT. Your culpability is of the same magnitude IMO. I hope ponniyin selvan will rewrite his mischievous dialog.

  7. Indian wrote #155:>>Sonal’s continuing speaking engagements for VHP/ RSS proxies till very recently

    Can you please provide links for that…

    Thanks!

    M. Nam

  8. 21 · ShallowThinker said

    Shallowthinker by any chance do you work at the Gurdwara in Stockton,Calfornia
    ….if this group is like any other Indian group then I bet they saw someone with a powerful name and said “Hey, why dont we say she is on our board to give us a little more prestige….” >> You don’t have to go very far for that. Even if some people want to be characterized/identified only as Americans, (e.g Bobby Jindal) many organizations/blogs/newspapers which dwell on Indian matters, have all exclaimed in joy when Bobby Jindal was elected governor of Louisiana. And that includes Sepia. I find it hard to believe that this little woman is all about Hindu domination, but I could be wrong. This is Comment #156.
  9. 135 · sn said

    liberal If one wants to put the Hindu-Muslim problem in a nutshell it is this; During 300 to 1100 CE, there was a vast flowering of civilization (Hindu) in India, in the arts, culture, science, and technology. From 1100-1750 CE, waves of Islamic conquerors indulged, at various times, in wholesale cultural and human genocide involving millions of Hindus. Few temples of antiquity are thus seen in North India (all demolished and/or replaced by Mosques). The Mughals did patronize fine art and architecture at the end of this period but could not bring modern thinking (enlightenment) and science to India. From the Hindu viewpoint (if I recall) it was this: Give us 3 of our ancient temples back (Ayodhya, Mathura, and Varanasi).. In each case the Mosque was built from the temple stones and we’ll call it quits. There were lots of discussions in the late 80s and early 90s and the muslim leadership did not want to accede (3 of a total of perhaps 1000s of temples that were levelled).

    Excellent summary, thanks.

  10. 121 · Nayagan said

    come now, if VP was making a concrete point and accusing SS of a specific action or set of actions which led to a concrete outcome, rather than moral turpitude by association, it wouldn’t be even the slightest bit appropriate to turn the spotlight back onto the accuser. He is, however, making that morality argument and prefacing it by basically saying, in the first counterpunch article, that capital/private accumulation is IRRECONCILABLE (his words) with human needs and freedom. He labels Center for American Progress fellows as fellow futile matchers of square to circle and Clinton bootlickers (i’m sure Matt Yglesias would LOVE to respond to that charge). In other words, he engages in much sly, and occasionally not so subtle, ad-hominem attacks of his own on the way to his ‘point.’ to make such a point requires that readers should ignore the fact that he is attempting to apply his very square theory to a very round world, and that this dubious intellectual exercise be premised on his apparent belief that essentially we’re all guilty. Where are the scientists who premise their arguments on the basis of sound traveling faster than light or Neanderthals developing cuneiform language? Taking VP seriously, because you enjoyed “There Will Be Blood,” is no reason to give his theories credence or to attribute the US attitude to child labor as somehow a result if only Sinclair’s agitations.

    yes, guilt by association type criticism is precisely the thing that bothers me most about VP’s work. i also just don’t think its particularly novel or informative. so let me say upfront: he is not an academic i admire.

    that said, what i’m trying to argue against is the criticism of academics like VP by saying that they occupy a chair endowed by a corporation. call out VP for his shoddy arguments all you like. i just don’t like the ‘you have to be one to know one’ argument. VP can be a good marxist theorist while being a bougie professor. let his work speak for itself.

    yes, peter singer is not the best practitioner of his moral philosophy, but that by itself doesn’t completely discredit his work. a valid criticism of his ethical requirements might be that they are too onerous for ordinary people to practice…so perhaps singer’s intuitions about what human beings value are off. i find it stupid when medha patakar and arundhati roy are criticized for working on the NBA because they are not personally affected by the dam like the adivasis. fine, so you think that they might be on the wrong side of the issue, point out how, instead of doubting their sincerity or negating their involvement with that cause. so many indians are railing against the politicians for bungled national security. however, these people don’t run for elections or do something to change the status quo. does that mean that their criticism is invalid? no, their criticism remains valid, but their inaction is a separate issue.

    ok, so an academic doesn’t have the wherwithal to work outside the system; which one of us does? very few. there is a reason not many people can be like mandela or gandhi, relatively consistent with the theories they espouse. ordinary human beings just won’t cultivate that level of impulse control.

    this was a difficult post to write. i hope it makes sense somebody else other than me 🙁

  11. 145 · Nayagan said

    –I took a full minute to translate that and couldn’t respond in kind.

    what — was rob trying to profess his undying love to you??

  12. portmanteau, I agree. Many of the criticisms of Prashad are essentially tu quoque arguments, which may not be entirely unfair in the context of addressing recommendations on life, social, or moral values, but it is still a weird tack to take, especially when, as you point out, substantive critiques of his work purely based on the arguments are relatively easy to make.

  13. have you heard of the phrase ‘public opinion?’ we are not famous, but it is we who are the statistics in gallup polls. we are the elsuive demographics that pollsters keep track of. if anyone wanted to figure out a quick informal word on what s. asians though about the sonal shah fiasco, where do you think they would go?? google ‘sonal sha.’ this site is the third link.

    There are too few of us SM commenters to comprise a poll, too many of us to make any kind of individual splash. As there are people reading what we post, at least I can say I helped balance the picture.

    if you didn’t understand my previous comment, let me break it down for you. you’ve been going on and on about how criticisms of sonal shah stem from a personal jealousy (you call her critics crabs-in-a-bucket). you won’t consider them legitimate concerns. otoh, when you cheerlead for sonal shah, you could be accused for shilling for her on sepia. if you expect your comments to be read as sincere and honest opinions, accord the same respect to others instead of basless mind-reading (‘oh, you’re prolly jealous.’)

    I understood what you were saying. You are free to characterize my arguments as “going on and on” —but my point, which you have not taken, is that VP’s attack on SS via media is admittedly based on personal animus and competition above bi-national politics. You are providing support on one side and I’m doing the same on the other.

  14. does that mean that their criticism is invalid?

    It is valid as criticism among critical folks, nothing more.

    no, their criticism remains valid, but their inaction is a separate issue.

    Don’t agree. You can criticise Mother Theresa for accepting money from dictators and thugs, but as long as you have not done what she has, your criticism is pointless. For real validity, you have to show how whatever she has done can be done without accepting money from such people. So if Baba Amte or Krishnammal criticises Mother Theresa, it would be valid.

    Sitting in your cubicle and painting scenarios is useless, because scenarios don’t have real-world constraints. A good example here is science. Theory people do not question the validity of experimental work, only people who do experiments have the right to do that. Because only they really know the constraints experimentalists work with. Experimentalists look down on theoreticians, they are “vultures” hovering for results.

    In the world outside science, there is no such balance. There are waaaaaaay too many critics hovering around the small population of people who act. There are hundreds of people here reading and commenting on Sonal Shah’s “purity” to be in office. None of them knows how she became “impure” with VHP-A. Maybe that was the only organisation she knew of, maybe that was the easiest org for her to work with, maybe she was so fired up to do something, she didn’t care who she was working with. If you have not done real field work trying to help people, you don’t know how people who want to act get into such associations. And most of them, when acting, are not planning on taking office or running for presidency. They just want to do something.

    The critics, on the other hand, are always “pure”, because they just sit front of their monitors. They then apply their own purity standards, retrospectively, on the people who are considered for office based on their good deeds. If you don’t feel like helping, that is okay. But you should at least get out of their way.

  15. This whole thing is getting on my last nerve. Why can’t Sonal simply put out a concise and definitive statement so we can move on. The effect of all these circumlocutions is to bog down the debate. Look at all the mud-slinging, paranoia, and distraction on this and previous threads. It’s a disgrace.

    If Sonal were to say simply that a) she did have associations with the VHP-A at one time; b) those associations were over before the Gujarat massacres; and c) she regrets the associations and rejects the VHP’s ideology, then this whole tempest could be over. Instead we get these meandering statements that end up fueling the flames on all sides. It’s either pathologically defensive, or deviously intentional, or — my hunch — just a glaring lack of political technique and savvy.

    Sonal: Don’t counter-accuse. Don’t moralize. Don’t give lectures on how complicated it is for Americans to understand India. Don’t offer parsing statements on Gujarati history. There are other times and places for this — and other messengers better suited to it, given your current position.

    You’re a strong, competent, intelligent and accomplished sister. Do you want to do your best work for all of us, by participating the the Obama transition and administration, or not? This is politics, my sister, and plenty of good people before you have had to deal with this kind of scrutiny.

    Keep it simple. Acknowledge, reject, and move on.

  16. Moornam #157:

    Pls google “Sonal Shah Ekal Vidyalaya” and you will get plenty of links (e.g. the very first result, an archived rediff report) and news reports about Sonal Shah being the lead speaker at that RSS/ VHP affiliate’s event in 2004. And remember that this is 2004, a full two years after the Gujarat (VHP incited, as she agrees) pogrom. In this time every sane human being, besides the ideologically deluded, knew about the genocide and VHP’s role in it. By this time Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, the Indian Supreme Court, US State department and practically every Indian newspaper and many US newspapers had reported on the central role of the VHP and its Sangh affiliates in executing the genocide. What other information do you need to put the lie to SS’s statement and raise serious questions about her character? Or maybe you will ask me for links establishing the affiliations between between the Sangh and Ekal Vidyalaya? SS is only sorry that she got caught, and not that she associated with the hate criminals in the Sangh. I can understand several people here who defend the Sangh, the VHP (e.g. kp#144) and therefore SS. It is a peculiar ideological affiliation that many affluent, educated Indians have and which has myriad reasons. What I cannot understand is, for someone to acknowledge that the Sangh are hate criminals, and not see (or rather twistedly justify) the transparently dishonest statements from Sonal Shah, as the author of this blog-post does.

  17. I am glad someone has called out Veepy Prashad. Darn, the guy is still an Indian citizen (IIRC) and what’s he doing influencing Indian Americans? This guy is one of those hacks chruned out by the Chicago diploma mill aka Wendy Doniger’s group at the University of Chicago, whose other luminaries include academic embarassments like Jeff Kripal and poseurs like Dipak Sarma. Veepy Prashad has a serious problem with IAs and Hindu Americans who ignore him, and now some of them are trashing him? That’s serious!

    Desi Italiana, for one who is so fully fed up of ..it, how about doing something? There is a good reason why the uncles and aunties run Hindu mandirs in the US. Because the young people like you who0 may have grown up in some obscure part of the US grow up finish college, find a job and scoot for the Coasts. Besides some of you have no real commitment to putting in some hard work and elbow grease. The Hindu intellectual tradition is vast and voluminous and unless you have learnt Sanskrit and Tamizh and read original bhashyas and nools it is hard to make sense of it. But then the likes of you have been brought up on a diet of Romila Thapar (knows neither Sanskrit nor Tamizh and cannot read and write in anything apart from English) and Amartya Sen and now Veepy Prashad are against everything. And while a reporter in The Hindu calls bhajan mandlais a nursery of little fascists and an obscure Hindu Students Council at a university is dubbed an extremist nursery while it is ignored that it is in the midst of about 20 Christian student organisations, three Muslim Student groups (which are provided prayer halls, exclusive diets etc) and the very large and thriving Hillel; you keep quiet if not pile on. You have no understanding and even less of a an interest in matters related to Hindu identity and expression. So why would any one be interested in what you have to say?

  18. 167 · siddhartha said

    a) she did have associations with the VHP-A at one time; b) those associations were over before the Gujarat massacres

    since this message apparently doesn’t get across:

    the reason she can’t do (a) is that she knows that (b) will be laughed at — the vhp did not discover its inner Hyde in Gujarat in 2002, nor is it believable that she had no idea of the vhp’s proclivities given her father’s lifelong association with the sangh in various capacities.

  19. Pls google “Sonal Shah Ekal Vidyalaya” and you will get plenty of links

    So what’s wrong with “Ekal Vidyalayas” ?.

    BTW, I became a Hindutvadi after learning about such schools. They are one person schools run in remote places where kids don’t have access to education. That’s what the missionaries do . Are you saying that if the missionaries do it is legitimate but when Hindutvadis do they create ‘terrorists’ ?.

  20. This guy is one of those hacks chruned out by the Chicago diploma mill aka Wendy Doniger’s group at the University of Chicago, whose other luminaries include academic embarassments like Jeff Kripal and poseurs like Dipak Sarma.

    That’s pretty hilarious, considering Sonal Shah also attended…wait for it….University of Chicago

  21. I also want to add that the only “doers” in this blog are Anna and Vinod, and I really appreciate them for that.

  22. 164 · Amrita said

    There are too few of us SM commenters to comprise a poll, too many of us to make any kind of individual splash.

    i took stats 101 too 🙂 i meant that ‘we’ are the larger set (the ‘population’) sampled by polls, ie those polls use a representative sample try to elicit what several cross-sections of society think. thanks for posting in response.

  23. since this message apparently doesn’t get across: the reason she can’t do (a) is that she knows that (b) will be laughed at — the vhp did not discover its inner Hyde in Gujarat in 2002, nor is it believable that she had no idea of the vhp’s proclivities given her father’s lifelong association with the sangh in various capacities.

    “Liberal,” the message certainly did get across. There is a simple, tried and true formula for dealing with these situations. It’s the one I articulated in my comment. If Sonal follows it, I guarantee you that the controversy will subside. There will still be noise from various quarters in the desi community — from people who, like you, who will claim that the VHP’s long, toxic history disqualifies Sonal Shah from US government service, and from people on the other side who will continue to blame Vijay Prashad for the ills of the world. In the broader political landscape, no one cares about all that. The dogs will bark, the caravan will move on, Sonal can get down to work for Obama, and she can be judged on her actions thereafter.

    1. In 1984, Congress Party and its leaders killed 2800 Sikhs in Delhi alone (Ahuja Commission). Three main leaders who led the killers were: JD Tytler, Sajjan Kumar and HKL Bhagat.

    2. The Present Government led by Dr. Singh had JD Tytler as a Cabinet Minister until he was forced out after the commission pointed at him for the massacres. He is still out in the open.

    Anyone here who associates with the Indian National COngress or has had any relationship with DR. MANMOHAN SINGH?? Because by all the “definitions” of “Criminal associations” used here on this blog post, Dr. Manmohan Singh is an abetter of terrorism and Sikh massacres JUST by appointing one who was a KNOWN leader of killers on those days in Delhi!

    I want to know!! I want all you guys to tell me HOW .. and WHY does killing 2800 Sikhs somehow makes its killers, abettors, associates, and motivators (anyone remember Rajiv Gandhi’s statement “Jab bada ped girta hai to dharti to hilti hai” after the Delhi massacres??) somehow CRIME-FREE.. GUILT-NEUTRAL.. and PRIMA-FACIE INNOCENT?!!

    And talking of killings… in Nandigram Muslims and Dalits and lower castes were specifically targeted! So ANYONE here who is related to CPI or CPM? They are guilty as well!!

    FINALLY THE QUESTION:

    1. In Gujarat by statement in Parliament by COngress minister – roughly 800 Muslims and 250 Hindus died. In Delhi ALONE 2800 Sikhs had died. In Nandigram, the figures were never really released but Muslims and lower castes were the target.

    Who SHOULD die when that killing becomes a “Communal” (or “fascist” act), and when does it become an “Adjustment” (Dharti hilna), and when does it become an aberration (Nandigram) and when does that killing remain in the realm of “Secular Killing”??

    Who SHOULD die, when those associated with that somehow taint others.. or leave them kosher??

    Who should die, before YOU should protest?

    I am SICK AND TIRED of the UTTER hypocrisy of the word SECULARISM and religious fundamentalism.. anyone talking has his/her hands FULL OF BLOOD! So stop talking of VHP and their deeds, lets first talk of RG, JD Tytler et al and the TAINT of Dr. Manmohan Singh!!!

    Any disclosures?? Who all have attended meetings? Seminar, anybody? Dinners?

  24. 176 · siddhartha said

    “Liberal,” the message certainly did get across. There is a simple, tried and true formula for dealing with these situations.

    sorry, i misread your comment as a request for a genuine acknowledgment of her actions, not a suggestion for a cynical political ploy. you’re right, the latter may succeed, and those who see the hypocrisy in it can be called dogs, so all will be good in sonal shah land.

  25. I already know that you are a just talker by reading your comments

    Oh, you are so perceptive.

  26. Siddhartha # 167 “If Sonal were to say simply that a) she did have associations with the VHP-A at one time; b) those associations were over before the Gujarat massacres…”

    Sonal cannot say that, because there is plenty of recorded evidence that she associated with Sangh affiliates post-Gujarat pogrom (see #168, for e.g.). It is not without reason that she does not give a point-by-point rebuttal of all the questions her critics are asking and is being meandering. This is not a simple case of guilt by association, as many here wish to paint it. My best case scenario for her is that she knowingly and willfully ignored the hate criminality of the VHP and Sangh (pre- and post-pogrom) because of her family’s longstanding and continuing association with the Sangh, and the worst-case scenario is that growing up in a ideologically Sangh polarized environment, she is actually a Hindutva ideologue on Indo-centric issues. When the debate erupted, I thought that it was the former but seeing the deviousness of her carefully drafted statements, I am beginning to suspect that it actually could be the latter.
    And Siddhartha, she really is not the “strong, competent, intelligent and accomplished sister” you were looking for. We have to look beyond her.

  27. 182 · Abhi said

    I was half expecting to read “who ordered the code red,” in your comment.

    that’s only because YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

  28. sorry, i misread your comment as a request for a genuine acknowledgment of her actions, not a suggestion for a cynical political ploy. you’re right, the latter may succeed, and those who see the hypocrisy in it can be called dogs, so all will be good in sonal shah land.

    No. I am asking for an acknowledgment AND for the acknowledgment to be made in a politically effective way. Which means, keep it simple. Right now she’s parsing, parrying, and playing into mudfests like the one here. That is neither dignified nor productive, and it’s a terrible political tactic for someone in her position.

  29. 184 · siddhartha said

    No. I am asking for an acknowledgment AND for the acknowledgment to be made in a politically effective way. Which means, keep it simple.

    don’t want to convert this thread to a back-and-forth, so this will be my last response, but: what you suggest is incomplete and far from a full accounting, and while it might be politically effective, it is terribly dishonest.

  30. 167 · siddhartha said

    Keep it simple. Acknowledge, reject, and move on.

    Seems to me that is what she did. Her statement, says she worked with VHP-A, it was before the riots, and it was purely humanitarian and cultural, and had she known that VHP-A would not stand up after she left the organization in the context of an event that had not yet happened, she would not have worked with them. Sounds pretty clear to me.

  31. jotsana @ 169, i’m not sure if you’re being tongue-in-cheek or serious? Assuming it’s the former, here goes:

    169 · jyotsana said

    So why would any one be interested in what you have to say?

    do you really need to make your points in that tone? and the parents you speak of so fondly (‘uncles and aunties running Hindu mandirs’), didn’t they leave india and the cultural projects of their parents behind to settle in america? are people allowed to have different priorities than the ones you mention here? and let me tell you, thanks to my independant and supervised study of hinduism, i know a bit more than some hindutvavadi uncles who claim that india invented the atom bomb and space travel because those astras and shastras are mentioned in the epics. according to them this knowledge was ‘lost’ in the intervening yugas. some of these people will deny forms of syncretism exist in india. others will say that ____ group of people in india need to be lined up against and a wall and shot one-by-one (i don’t know why these uncles all want to hve them lined up and only shot, but maybe they’ve strong aesthetic opinions).

    obviously, not all people are such philistines but the character who goes to the mandir to show off her latest acquisitions in precious metals or the fools who know their ramayana and mahabharata from ramanand sagar and b r chopra are not hard to find. so please stop romanticizing that particular generation. they have their stalwarts; in time, we will find ours too. i wonder how old that ‘nutshell’ hisorian @ #135 is? not that a sample size of one is going to prove anything.

    just so you know, lots of campuses have explicitly hindu organizations and events which are student-organized or at least assisted enthusiastically by students of hindu origin. here is an example. i’ve taught three years of hindi to ABDs in college, who came to hindi class for a variety of purposes. some merely to have a better grasp of the language, others who wanted to start learning the devnagari script to further their engagement with indian classical music and art. i’ve known kids growing up in the rougher parts of new york city who make films, inspired by gurudutt’s body of work. i’ve also known kids who’re interested in nothing but their tennis and sports journalism. so should i not hear out that kid, or what his view on a situation is? you might not be interested in a particular person’s viewpoint but at least refrain from such harangues about the halcyon days and dearth of character in young people. it would suck if people started to self-censor after looking at posts like these.

  32. Sonal cannot say that, because there is plenty of recorded evidence that she associated with Sangh affiliates post-Gujarat pogrom (see #168, for e.g.).

    Indian,

    Here is one of the responses you get if you google Ekal Vidalaya and Sonal Shah:

    India Abroad 04-23-2004 Sonal Shah, founder of Indicorps and India Abroad Person of the Year 2003, was the main presenter of the theme at a workshop on ‘Service Through Leadership in the Modern World’ at the Storer auditorium, University of Miami School of Business, Miami, Florida, April 3.

    Over 150 people, most of them college students, attended the program, according to Ritu Linhart, South Florida Area Coordinator for the Ekal Vidyalaya Foundation of USA. The Ekal Vidyalaya South Florida chapter was the main organizer. Other sponsors included the school, which provided the auditorium free, and chapters of the premed honor society Alpha Epsilon Delta, and the Hindu Students Council.

    Based on this evidence, the University of Miami School of Business must also be communal based on the fact that they hosted her in their auditorium. (The title of her talk doesn’t exactly inspire terror, does it?)

    Second, you are fudging a bit when you talk about “VHP affiliates.” I believe you must be referring to the fact that she spoke at an HSS youth camp. I addressed some of that in my post on Yankee Hindutva. The HSS is the U.S. version of the RSS, which doesn’t exactly make me want to run out and join it. However, after my last post, and on commenter Buster’s suggestion, I read an article by Arvind Rajagopal, which approached the “Yankee Hindutva” question from a more empirical angle than Prashad’s suspicion-based accounts have done:

    Arvind Rajagopal, “Hindu Nationalism in the US,” Ethnic and Racial Studies 23:3 (May 2000): 467-496

    Rajagopal, a left-leaning Indian academic (best known as a film scholar), actually attended an HSS camp, and what he found was actually pretty banal.

    In effect, you’re amplifying the negative/communal connotations of these organizations and events (guilt by association), and downplaying what she actually said at those events (her positive contribution).

    At all of the events where she speaks, both religious and secular, Sonal Shah seems to have a consistent message: she wants to try and inspire people to get involved in service — self-less acts rather than self-ish acts. She is not talking about religious exclusion, and she is not promoting religious intolerance.

    One might argue that her speaking to these groups reflects something positive about her — she’s trying to reach devoutly religious Hindus — rather than something negative. But I’m sure that’s hopeless with this crowd.

  33. 186 · GP said

    Her statement, says she worked with VHP-A

    she has not acknowledged that she was on the national leadership council of the vhp-a, something that has been documented by email records which list her u.s. treasury address, as well as by the vhp-a itself (of course, the vhp-a leader anticipates her disavowal of them, and justifies it as an expeditious move that she has to engage in to further her career). instead, she chose to weave a story about a conglomerate of do-gooders into which the vhp-a insinuated itself and appropriated her good name for its ends. so, no, she puts far more distance between her and the vhp-a than is evidenced by those pesky things… facts. as for the claim that she could not have known that the vhp-a would not distance itself from the next go-around of the vhp’s misdeeds, why she would expect the future to be different from over a decade of the recent past is a question that is left for the ages.

  34. 168 · Indian said

    Pls google “Sonal Shah Ekal Vidyalaya” and you will get plenty of links

    I don’t think she would accept any issues with Ekal Vidyalaya. Her father is VP of EV-USA.

    Ramesh Shah … has been working tirelessly as a volunteer with Ekal for the last 5 years, helping them set up the financial and governance structure in the US, fundraising for schools and educating various communities about the need to support education in the rural and tribal areas in India, where there is nothing. He is passionate about education because coming from a rural village himself, he has benefited from the educational opportunities he has received.

    I don’t know her position on EV though, I haven’t seen any statements on it.

  35. 172 · Ironic said

    This guy is one of those hacks chruned out by the Chicago diploma mill aka Wendy Doniger’s group at the University of Chicago, whose other luminaries include academic embarassments like Jeff Kripal and poseurs like Dipak Sarma.
    That’s pretty hilarious, considering Sonal Shah also attended…wait for it….University of Chicago

    That’s prettier hilarious since you think that Wendy Doniger’s group is all there is to University of Chicago!! Wow, this is what Veepy Prashad does to you guys? Hopeless!

  36. Abhi – if you want to stuff be prepared to be challenged. The holier-than-thou that most commenters and bloggers are so confident of their secular identity…. have very shallow definitions of what they believe in! Just as an FYI – when the Best Bakery case was going on .. at the same time the widows of 1984 massacres ALSO retracted their cases. Check the TOI or HT around that time…and you will probably find it on some middle page one column wide news blurb! And, pray, how was it any less important? Go figure!

    The hypocrisy and shallow mentality is so telling!!

  37. 190 · liberal said

    she has not acknowledged that she was on the national leadership council of the vhp-a

    Liberal is right. She has neither acknowledged nor denied being on the leadership council. Her failure to engage with this point totally baffles me. I’m in 100% agreement with Siddhartha.

  38. 196 · Ennis said

    Her failure to engage with this point totally baffles me.

    it fits with this. she has figured her best bet is to spin a story (unfortunately, provably counterfactual) of herself and the vhp-a as two ships passing by in the night, since she realizes that further acknowledgments open the door to many many more questions.

  39. 182 · Abhi said

    I was half expecting to read “who ordered the code red,” in your comment.

    That movie really needs a good DBD-grad-student makeover:

    “DID YOU ORDER THE CODE RED?!”

    “NO I ORDERED A MANAGER’S SPECIAL 14″ CHEESE PIZZA FOR $4.99 WITH WATER, NO ICE!”

    Ahh! Memories.

  40. Indian,

    Links from 2004 are ancient history. The juice is in recent activity – can’t find anything from 2007/2008. Would appreciate any help.

    M. Nam