The latest Brown Girls comic made me cringe with unease when it popped up on my blogreader this week. Swiped from my latest blog addiction, Devis With Babies, this week’s Brown Girls episode made me wonder just how many similar conversations were had this election cycle.
As a SDMF (Single Desi Muslim Female) in my twenties, I’ve had my fair share of Brown Girls-type talk, usually over brunch and usually about boys. Many boys. Over the years, I’ve dated a Desi Hindu and a Black Muslim and I’ve always wondered with whom my parents would cringe less with — would their racial prejudice or Muslim orthodoxy take precedence? I’ve always thought they would be more accepting of a Muslim man, no matter what race, but my friends always begged to differ that racism prevailed over all. Of course, I would like to think that my parents would accept anyone that I would love, but we all know the desi Bradley effect there.
Truth is no boy over the years has met the bar to be introduced to my parents so I have no way to test this effect yet. But I am curious, if Obama is elected President, and my parents vote for him, will it be more acceptable for me to bring home a black man? If elected, will Obama essentially increase the desi dating pool of what boys us SDMFs can bring home? Single brown girls, what are your experiences with the Desi Dating Bradley Effect?
Way to go, Devis, on hitting the nail on the head on this one. I am Brown Girls comic latest biggest fan. Other Brown Girls Comics: Episode 1, Episode 2, and Episode 3.
10 · glass houses said
Run away as in “This girl is crazy?”
31 · Manju said
nothing “white” about that. as for filial piety, damn, if that means being racist, i’ll pass.
31 · Manju said
again, i love how for many desis “acting white” is dating people regardless of race or what other people may think. what a narrow view of what being “desi.” Also last time I checked, dating a Black man was not “acting white,” in fact far from it – just ask some of your white friends
As for “filial piety,” this is once again such a narrow view expressed here- maybe filial piety could be constructed less as a relationship where adult “children” do as they are told, and more as a relationship where families could come together as individuals with their own opinions, independent actions but still mutual respect. I’m not naive, but I would rather be an idealist than be stuck in some of those miserable relationships that I have seen people stuck in for the sake of “filial piety.”
39 · Lea said
I have to agree with this. Culturally I think our parents were raised under traditions that were geared towards thinking in terms of retaining a sense of community into future generations. Individual happiness is important, but we also think in terms of what the children are going to look like and what the grandchildren will be like and so on. My parents would not be comfortable with me marrying a White girl. That doesn’t mean they would not accept her with open arms or love the grandchildren we have any less. But the fact is that if I marry a Desi girl they will be much more secure in the knowledge that our kids will be Indian. With half-White grandkids it’s a toss-up.
Call it retrograde if you want. But this is the mentality that allowed us Indians to retain our unique cultural identities over a thousand years of being ruled by foreigners. The Jewish community had the same stubborn insistence on retaining their ethnic and cultural identity and it’s the reason they managed to soldier on despite all the crap they’ve had thrown at them.
Everyone wants to be remembered and survived through their offspring. It’s a natural biological drive. I think the source of most of my parents’ anxiety about the race of my future spouse is the idea that by marrying someone who is not Indian then my children’s children will be much more prone to forgetting where they came from. Everyone needs to feel like they are a part of something that continues on after they are gone. For many Indians their heritage is part of that and some part of them wants to see it continued. It’s really about living for something greater than yourself.
52 · desiwoman said
I don’t see how not wanting to date people of a specific group or outside a specific group = racism.
There are cultural issues at stake here. Maybe if we lived in some lalaland where there were no cultural differences between groups and we were all just one big mixed up stew of identical peoples this might make sense. But to some people sustaining their cultural identity across generations is an important thing and they’re uncomfortable with the idea that future generations will eventually stop identifying themselves as Indian. It does not necessarily have to mean that anyone thinks Black (or any other) people are bad or inferior in any way.
I don’t want to speak for anyone else. But I think the “acting White” bit is more about acting like your happiness as an individual is the only thing that matters over and above everything else.
43 · Sameer said
With all due respect, the reason why some Black Americans can be considered racists, is because if you and your ethnic group lived all or most of your life in a country where all groups have to hate or socially/culturally isolate themselves from an entire race of people they think are beneath them in order to be full-fledged citizens, and it’s socially/culturally (and some past cases legally) accepted to disdain your group (the “them”), you wouldn’t have warm lovely feelings toward those who disrespects you just because of your “differences,” now would you? Respect isn’t a one-way street.
Unlike other ethnicities, there’s not a cultural bond, tradition or a “heritage” in Black Americans, to collectively ignore an entire race of people, just for the heck of it, or for “cultural” reasons…unless that group’s cultural heritage is to wear white sheets and robes, and burn crosses every weekend.
They would say, Hai, I put him next to my son, I should think. Don’t forget that Barack Obama is some serious man candy. Plus, he’s more or less all-purpose brown and knows how to make dal.
Eight years, Manju my dear, eight.
Taz, I am always in L.A :-). I was looking forward to a “names have been changed to protect the identity” type post.
Precisely, Amrita. You summed it up concisely and exactly. The talking heads don’t have a grip on this, but it’s real and it’s deep!
Amrita on October 26, 2008 07:00 AM · Direct link · “Quoteâ€(?)
Eight years, Manju my dear, eight.
Right on!
Here in SoCal Obama is having an interesting galvanizing effect- from art to discourse among various “races”- especially”mixed” folks. The racial and religious divisiveness of McCain got old awhile ago, and, in an area like SoCal with its border issues and the military spying on local mosques, etc., it’s a relief to have someone stand up and sincerely say that the US is made up of all of us. About damn time. As for Obama being “African-American-” he is part of a new segment of African-American society that does not spring from the horrors of US slavery. There is a growing number of people with direct connections to Africa and the Caribbean/Belize who are not part of that background and there needs to be room for them.
Frankly, I’m just thankful he’s intelligent, educated and reads books. Hell, he even writes them! Unlike W who fondles foreign heads of state and stumbles over words with more than two syllables. It would be nice to be less embarrassed about being American for awhile.
“Yeah man, I also think that is no fair. Because some of us women don’t care what race the guy is, as long as he’s a voter. But I can’t control if his desi friends impart f***ed up cultural issues from the community that I personally don’t feel. I’ve had this come up a couple of times when dating black men. “
Taz I get what you’re saying and I feel you. I was writing as someone who would be close to the black kid and not knowing the desi girl at all. My thing is this, I’ve SEEN how desi parents put potential boyfriends/girlfriends through the insane meat grinder. I would have NO wish to see any of my non desi friends male or female be subject to that. If I KNEW a non desi friend of mine were getting involved (involved seriously not FWB, fuck buddies) with a desi girl or guy with nutjob parents, brothers etc I would tell him or her..just walk. They are fucked up cultural issues Taz, but they are all too real. I’ve seen too many non desi friends get into 2-3 year relationships only to have the desi guy or girl quit on them because the desi parents couldn’t get beyond the bullshit.
“Run away as in “This girl is crazy?” “
Not at all Huey. The girl might be an absolute peach, but if I knew her parents to be super duper uncool I would lay out the facts for any non desi friend who might not be aware of the insanity of some of our elders.
54 · NaraVara said
I’m writing this post as I’m watching Mississippis Massala-what irony! But this comment stuck out to me
What bothers me is when ABD also have a problem with other desis that marry out of the desi culture. I do understand that with the parents it is sometimes hard to change the thought process-they were brought up in a different time, but with the ABD that were brought up here and are still so closed minded I get quite upset-we should be so much more accepting to others decisions even if they are not our own. If one decides that the man or woman of their dreams is somebody from another race but that person is everything they ever wanted and they are willing to do what they need to make it work so be it-wish them all the best in the world, god knows marriage is hard enough without loosing your friends because you married somebody of a different race.
brings a tear to my eye.
65 · Crest said
First off, let me say that NaraVara (the person you quoted) really points out the real root issue of why Indians are not as accepting of interracial marriages. I’m sure racism is a part at times as well, but NaraVara’s point of the desire to retain the cultural lineage is the primary reason for this.
Now to your point Crest.. I for one, as an ABD, would never look down on a person who chooses to marry outside of their Indian roots. Instead I would just be slightly dissapointed in a general sense of that their descendants would less likely to retain their Indian roots. Again, I have no problem personally with them but just disappointed with the disintegration of our Indian culture(not saying that’s a bad thing, just a desire as an Indian myself to see our culture survive the generations).
So at times this dissapointment might affect the freindship in certain ways, but of course it should never mean you shouldn’t be freinds anymore. As I’ve made clear that I would personally not look at them in a negative fashion, but there will be consequences in terms of our relationship. Sure we’ll continue to be freinds, but there will be some change. Our differences in views of retaining our culture will and might distance freinds in certain arenas (family get togethers, advising kids on culture etc;).
In summary, I think choosing to marry outside their own culture is fine and not a wrong choice. But I believe whomever chooses that route, is also choosing to allow that their family and descendants will drift from the cultural identity and values of their Indian roots.
For me personally I wouldn’t want this as I consider many of our core Indian values worth retaining but still willing to take those values from America that I feel are beneficial for my family. In my opinion we should be open to change by gaining values from other cultures, but that doesn’t mean I want to throw away my core Indian culture. Both Indian and outside cultures have their merits and their faults. I choose to see my Indian culture as something not better nor worse than any other culture, but a culture that has proved the test of many generations and as an Indian I’m proud of and want to retain for my descendants. Of course for many others Indians, this may not be the case which is fine by me.
Good to see that ABDs care about their parents’ opinions, though sometimes I wonder whether the parents are just a bogey. Most white folks who date black people also go through such conflicting thoughts, but they never use their parents as a proxy punching bag for their conflicting emotions.
If you really like a person from a different race, and you have the guts to go ahead with a multi-racial relationship, go ahead and do it. Parents are just part of the weather you’ll have to face, and it happens in all cultures, and happens to DBDs as well. Why blame the poor parents if you don’t have the stomach for it? Look up to Obama’s mamma, instead of Obama.
The ABDs are a bunch of first class whiners, with nothing much to their credit to speak of as a group, and always complaining about how the culture binds their “freedoms”. If you think about it, the ABD generation, with their privileged accents, privileged upbringing, and privileged education, haven’t achieved anything much to speak of. Where is the ABD (Amartya Sen, Mira Nair, Vinod Khosla, Indra Nooyi, Vikram Pandit, Kalpana Shrama,….)? They like to bask in the reflected glory of such people, and then whine about how the culture is soooo offputting, forgetting that the culture has a lot to do with the success of such people, and they all value it greatly. If there weren’t such people, the ABD generation would’ve extended the whining about their parents’ attitudes to the entire diaspora, and whined about how the bad accents and eating-with-hands of Indian programmers make them look cheap. Time the DBDs, particularly the parents, started whining about how the ABDs make them look like losers.
If you are man/woman enough, take your partner home, and convince your parents. Or go live on your own. Why bad-mouth your parents after all they have done for you?
End of rant.
hopefully this comic is right and the general public will rethink their decision to vote for nobama. the fact that desis support his policies that really devalue hardwork is astonishing. (and no, i’m not a “maverick” mccain supporter….he is just as terrible of a candidate as obama)
GO THIRD PARTY….half of registered voters don’t vote, with many citing the reason that neither candidate represents their views. those who do vote, choose 1 of the two republicrats often despite their beliefs not being represented simply because a vote for a third party who does stand for their beliefs is just a “throw away vote”. however, while a third party vote may not get the person elected, if enough people do it, it will start sending a message that the majority of america thinks this bipartisan system is just not cutting it.
Come on in! there is “room” for them, just a point of fact; “Africans” in South America, Central America as well as the Caribbean were part of the same trans atlantic slave trade that bought “African Americans to the shores of North America. In spite of the psychic powers many have alluded to (but never proved) in insinuating Michelle Obama ‘hates’ all non black people- her accomplishments are just as real as his. Its divisive and insulting to think she or any other “African American” has any less stake or desire in seeing America as black and white, us and them etc. to be perpetually perceived as step children in our own country. USA! indeed.
I am amazed, awed and at the same time inspired by the comments this comic has provoked (love the comic, love the style), as well as the comments on the site it was originally posted on. How can there be such vast differences in the way we perceive ourselves as a culture, vis-a-vis our perception of African Americans as a race? One person says that she can’t believe this discussion is still happening amongst second-generations Indians (on the Devis with Babies site); another person says the entire topic is a “non story” (one of the first posts here); yet others agree almost non-chalantly with the idea that, at the end of the day, most Indians will not end up with anybody of another race. I, personally, find the take-away from this dialogue to be that intelligent, accomplished Indians are more racist than I believed…but…and perhaps this is more naivete than the readers of this particular blog can stomach…but I can’t help but think that the imminent election of Obama (thank god) is going to help ameliorate this racism. While I am shocked that this level of racism exists amongst us (which means it must be so much worse amongst our parents, and amongst the “us” who are too embarrassed to post a comment), I have faith that change begets change and culture takes everyone in its waves…Obama being elected IS culture…it will change everything.
On a really practical level…We need to lower the desi threshold for introducing boyfriends and girlfriends to parents. I regret not having introduced my girlfriends to my parents at all or in good time. Their reactions to differences in age, race, and religion were as pronounced as I expected, but I underestimated their ultimate capacity to grow and accept and love and provide guidance. It was my loss not to involve them more in my early twenties life. So putting these grand statements aside about how racist desis are or aren’t, my advice to Taz would be to withhold less from your parents. I learned to be patient with my parents’ initial reactions.
I think ABD offsprings seriously misunderstand the value of appreciating one’s own culture. Although America is presented as a bastion of multiculturalism, it is actually a very homogenous and homogenizing nation–one language, one overall style of being, etc. South Asia, on the other hand, is a polygenous subcontinent, with a wide variety of religions and CULTURES co-existing for centuries. Yes, cultures evolve, and if ABDs want to marry out of their cultures and/or religions, that’s fine.
But to demean those of us who want to preserve our cultures by labeling us as racists shows a striking lack of understanding about the complexities of marriage, the value of our attempts to maintain the world that has been with us for centuries.
Don’t forget that the very values that many ABDs knock are the ones that have allowed South Asians (and Asians in general) to be the most successful minority in the West. Emphasizing family structure, respect for elders, respect for education, respect for one’s body and sexuality and emotions, and above all, respect for the collective community rather than the individual are all why Asians can come from the poorest of regions during the worse of times (Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea, Bangladesh) and have their children in graduate schools within one generation.
We have served you well. Show back some respect. Buying into facile discourses about race and identity and denigrating your own is an insult to those of us who came to a brand new country to give YOU a better life.
This discussion about desi parents or community being racist is really disheartening. Keep in mind that you may think that contemporary western culture right now is the one that fulfills you the most, but the long term picture is not that rosy. I am in the education field, and it is only now that we are beginning to see the effects of a culture that has devalued family so much. My (white, black, and hispanic) students have grown up essentially alone or in daycare, have the emotional maturity of children at least 5 years younger, are on serious meds like prozac or ritalin or worse, are unmotivated or have learning skills of someone 6 years junior, etc.
My point is, don’t assume that breaking away from community so as to forge your own happy road will be a happy road for the greater community. You may see us as old fashioned, racist, obsessed with color, etc. That may be true, but we are also obsessed with feeding you, clothing you, making sure that we, and not the school teachers, are parents, and we also took painful steps to make it in a country alien to us so that you can come on this blog and whine about not being able to openly date a black man.
If you feel that you want to date out of your race, then have the strength of character to openly date that person. If your parents are immigrants, think about it: they LEFT their home country to start new in an unfamiliar nation. They probably put in 12-14 hour days to feed and shelter you. They probably always had a warm meal for you and were probably around for you when you needed them. Your fathers probably never got all misty about existentialism and walked out the door because he needed to find himself. He probably hated his job, and stayed in, day in and day out so that you can have a better life. Your mother probably missed out on a career or gave up a family to brave a new world comparatively alone, and she probably still was always there to help you with your homework. Do you think you can show that level of commitment and courage? If so, have the guts to date whoever you want openly, instead of secretly, but only with courage to whine on a blog.
Seriously, a little self awareness and a little more introspection cannot hurt.
63 · glass houses said
Glass houses, please explain this to me as if I were a first grader. What is about this “difference” that would make non-desi suitors change their minds of meeting with their potential desi in-laws? Will they be given quizzes about Indian culture? Would they be constantly compared with other persons of color of the same ethnicity, who have done unlawful or illegal acts? I mean, if one brings home a black boyfriend, do you think that the South Asian person needs to sit their parents down and let them watch “In the Heat of the Night,” “A Raisin in the Sun” or “In the Pursuit of Happyness” before meeting him? Or maybe watch “Eyes On The Prize”, so they’ll have some knowledge of their potential son-in-law’s history/culture?
Amen.
73 · GetOfMyLawn! said
I just finished watching the Namesake(5th time) and the above paragraph fits the movie perfectly. I wonder where these whiny ABDs with their graduate degrees will be if their fathers had left their mothers to find themselves.
72 · GreenDaddy said
I think about that sometimes – but in the end, no matter what race the guys were, they were all douchebags. And I really want to introduce my folks to a guy that isn’t a douchebag. Now that I’m older I’m more willing to introduce my parents to whom I date, no matter what race, but the boys around these days are still douchebags. It’s an douchebag thing, not a race thing, why my folks haven’t met boys I’ve dated in the past. 🙂
That being said, I think it will be easier to bring home a non-desi boy if Obama is elected.
74 · Huey said
The Indian girl needs to get the black guy to watch “Kuch Kuch Hota Hai” and “Kabhi Kushi Khabi Gham” so he can get a better understanding of what’s he’s dealin with…Because those movies represents a 5000 year old culture just like the ‘true story’ based Pursuit of Happyness that convientantly skipped the fact that the real Chris Gardner abandoned his kid while pursuing his happyness….LOL
How about the introspection of domestic violence in the community? The patriarchal misogyny enforced with the big stick? The voices in this thread are largely male driven – for some odd reason the women’s voice is devoid in this thread. To have “strength of character” as a woman to date out of race – and especially in the black community, takes some serious strength. Especially when you got beat every time you did something ‘wrong.’ And let’s not forget the story of Sparkle Reid, the black woman murdered by her Desi father in-law because of her race. This isn’t simply a story of “whiny ABDs” but a story where violence is prevalent when it comes to bringing up inter-racial, inter-ethnic, inter-religious marrying. Violence by DBDs on their ABD children.
As for that statement, I’m pretty sure that some ABDs would have been better off if the mothers had the resources and community support to leave their fathers.
I don’t mean to derail the thread (on my thread) it’s just that this is a really complex issue that I feel can’t be watered down to “whiny ABD” issues. And if you want self-awareness, let’s REALLY try to be self-aware.
78 · Qbert said
Gee, I didn’t think finding a decent job was pursuing “happyness.” Call me crazy, but I thought finding a job was considered being “responsible?” Maybe other films you could’ve picked better than “Kuch Kuch Hota Hai”, nevertheless, I’m quite sure that the black boyfriend would have enough sense that not all Indian people start dancing (choreographed and in full costumes) whenever it rains, lol. “A Raisin in the Sun” is among the culture (although not 5000 years old, yet no LESS extraordinary) that represent the African-American struggle against insurmountable odds, despite the legal and socially accepted prejudice from others, yet still overcome.
Hey, but a lot of the white liberal folk have it, why not you?
America is where anyone can forge ahead on their own, no one can really stop you from doing whatever you want. Why wait for Obama?
It IS a whiny ABD issue. Ever seen a blog anywhere else, of any community, wondering how outside events would help parents accept their mature kids’ choices? Most mature kids do what they want, and convince parents that what they are doing is good, and takes responsibility for their decision. No one, seriously, no one, waits for an election, or any other external event, to do their talking for them.
No wonder you guys don’t get anywhere — you wouldn’t know what to do without your parents, but you don’t want to listen to them, and think they are not cool enough because they are not like white parents, and label them racists because you don’t have strength of character to do what you want to do.
Boy, better put that C back in ABD.
and you are SO sure the same pressure to marry within the community doesnt exist with other communities? pass me the kool-ade someone. the pressure that exists within the southasian/muslim/hindu/jain/punjabi/ahmadiya/malayalam/marathi/brahmin/jatt/sikh/marwari/telugu/aiyyar/khoja/parsi community – is a source of strength to many, especially when society still works on a trust based model. it isnt what you know but the network you have that really greases machinery. if you are to stand outside the community, do so – but dont expect to shame everyone else into following your belief system and shedding this support structure. i’ll take a leap here. you state that you stand outside the hypocrisies of tradition. well… look within your immediate support structure and the thread that binds you all – would this community/coterie still exist if the ’cause’ that fed it ceased to exist?
My experience is that the determinative factor in desi parents’ reaction to significant others outside their range of ideal mates is not race, or religion, or even class, but age. I.e., as they get older, they start to worry that you won’t get married at all, and the prospect of not even having grandkids scares them much more than the prospect of said grandkids not being exactly the right color or creed. Also, more and more of your relatives and acquaintances will marry outside of the “ideal” envelope over these years, and so they see it’s not such a nightmare after all. I’d predict that, on average, by the time you hit thirty, if you are still single your parents will be putting up much less resistance on this front.
80 · Huey said
Gardner left his wife for his mistress, had a baby with her. He did cocaine, sold cocaine. All on his way to pursue his happyness just like any responsible man. This reminds me when I got the pink slip, I did coke off a stripper on my way to the unemployment office. I’m not undermining the African American struggle, but in the contemporary American society black people have more opportunities than any immigrant landing in this country. But so few choose to use it!
you mean Andrew Symonds ? Have you seen Andrew in real life ? If he is black then I am Swedish. Australians can dish it out but cant take it. Btw the same “monkey” has been paid enormous $$ to peform. Would you be a poor “monkey” or a rich one ? I know what I would be.
the question is why do you still date douchebags ? understandable for someone in their teens but in your late 20’s.
ROFL. Finally someone has the courage to spell it out. DBD parents should have spanked the whining out of the ABD brats. And dont blame the ABD kids too much – DBDs raised them. Further from shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves is standard American fare is it not ?
What I think is absolutely hilarious is the idea that if an Indian were to marry inside the Indian community, the offspring would carry on the Indian culture and tradition better than a mixed Indian child would.
Simply having a child from an Indian-Indian relationship will not instantly transfer years of culture and identity to the child. It is the environment in which the child is raised that determines his or her cultural identity.
Your fear is that the purebred Indian child born in the West would become so entrenched in a generic American culture that the child becomes “whitewashed.” Newsflash– I know plenty of purebred Indian children who would fit that description. I also know of mixed children that have been educated and regularly participate in the cultural traditions of their parent(s).
You can have all the purebred children you want, but if the most Indian culture they absorb and claim is from a Bollywood DVD, they’ll have as much culture as the mixed children you
fearthink might not have as strong a cultural identity.82 · khoofia said
Khoofia,
I get what your saying – I think you misread me. I have no problem with people who want to preserve culture, and marry within culture/religion/race. I’m not saying having one preference is better than another. I was trying to highlight the risk of violence in the community when it comes marrying outside of ones community.
I meant to say ;
with a billion+ people in India- I kinda doubt the culture is in danger of disappearing, however I understand there are tensions :
Taz said: That being said, I think it will be easier to bring home a non-desi boy if Obama is elected. Such a personal choice- who to love, yet fraught with the political. I can say I don’t judge, but If that were the case I would not feel a deeper connection, respect for Mr. Obama, becuase in his choice of a wife he embraced what has been discounted in so many ways. So I can understand comments about wanting to preserve and celebrate a shared heritage etc.
32 · jilabi said
lol, I was thinking the same thing. Taz seems to be very race concious, it’s not to the point where she’s mentally handicapped by it though.
Such great words-I could not agree more. How many Indian kids are there out there that don’t know a THING about Indian culture because they have spent all of their childhood and teens trying to be anything but their parents and avoiding any and all Indian events and cultural gatherings. Only if the parents expose and insist that the culture gets passed down does it stick and the heritage remain. I do feel that one can do both and do both with ease, however, but it is a fine balence and one that takes patience and hard work. I know many children from mixed marriages that know more about the Indian culture, the Hindu religion and the customs than any of their non mixed friends-and they have no problem admitting that they are half Indian-in fact they may be more proud than the others because this makes them unique!
That’s true. Though I am not sure how much of the whininess comes from the raising. If the same kids were raised in Desh, they probably wouldn’t whine so much. I also haven’t heard of DBDs playing ‘helicopter parents’, that airspace is white usually.
1 · razib said
Mind you, this is coming from a dark-skinned desi with non-sharp features.
The black americans Barack Obama, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell at al are lighter skinned (and better built) than most all desi-americans. Children of desi and afro parentage will likely be far more robust and self confident than the typical inbred desi immigrants in the west. Case in point: Kamala Harris the first female District Attorney of San Francisco.
The “sharp features” that Razib is talking about do not make desis who possess them any more attractive to non-desis. I dont see white or black or hispanic americans running after sharp-featured desis like they run after soft-featured east and southeast asian girls. Neither northern europeans nor east asians, the two dominant races in the world today, see large hooked noses as attractive. Quite the opposite. In the UK intermarriage and dating rates between the native whites and immigrant desis are far, far lower than the rates between whites and african and afro west-indian immigrants. Bottom line: desis are just not seen as physically attractive by non-desis.
Hovering, Exactly, Wah! or YesandNo – Please stick to one handle. Or else.
That goes for the rest of you as well – excessive multiple handles on threads are not tolerated in the Mutiny.
Desi/Indian parents should grow up and respect an adult youth’s decision reg. marriage/partner and strive to play a balanced, constructive, and advisory role. If they make you cringe then there is some deficiency and probably lack of communication.
Almost every time I come to this website, I am struck by what filthy small-minded racists so many of you are. It is hard to wade the muck to find whatever is an interesting read, without falling into the comments section which invariably make me disgusted.
Despite whatever educational, professional, family qualities are claimed, what comes across most truly is the depraved, racists mindsets that define who you are most of all. The desire for a familiar caste system makes many of you resent any African-American/black person who doesn’t know how to accept such a caste system, even more than any who fulfills the stereotypes just as you need them to be. Because that mentality is so acceptable around you, most of you really have no idea how absolutely disgusting you are.
Given any opportunity to inflict your caste-minds on the black people of the US, you will do so, just as those like you do in Fiji, Kenya, Guyana, Trinidad, etc. Consider your family’s national origins, now consider the cesspools of poverty, illiteracy, wife-burning, girl-baby killing, widow-torture and a whole roster of societal ills that aren’t covered over by a few getting Visas to work in a tech firm, or a handful who carry an elite sense of entitlement in the world at the same time carrying the most depraved personal, cultural, religious values. But you don’t want someone to stereotype you, right? Especially not white people – that would be racist, wouldn’t it?
I was raised by good, honest people who could have never considered themselves to have raised me right, if I held such a racist, demeaning, twisted perspective. But your sickness was family inherited, so there is no such possibility for familial intervention. Is that a cultural heritage that makes you proud? You look down on African-Americans who fought to make the United States a place that was more about equality than racism, because you come from lines of people who fought and fight to maintain racist, cultural brutality and a crassness that cannot be covered over by some pretense about ‘great traditions.’
Clearly your racism, the teachings of sick and racist parents, and a clear lack of intelligence, should keep most of you away from talking about history that isn’t South Asian, and certainly when trying to sow division between African-Americans, blacks born in Africa, and definitely about Civil Rights, US slavery, slavery in the Americas, the Slave Trade — particularly because there is nothing in your backgrounds that makes you understand slavery was wrong. There has never been any great intellectual, cultural awakening that would challenge this sickness — the moral and intellectual strength represented by leaders of the Civil Rights movement (and early leadership) are not to be found and not to be tolerated in communities the height of which is stuck on being “Fair, but at least wheat.”
The reality is a lot of people wouldn’t want to date someone of your background because they don’t want to deal with the racism or cultural deviance that elevates racism to a point of pride. Even the snarky young ones, convinced of their intellectual, academic, professional achievements are just as depraved – there isn’t even any sign of moving beyond that background.
But sure, you look down on OTHERS. I guess it is important for such types of people to stereotype about black people.
Wrong. Jewish-americans have very high intermarriage rates with non-jews.
“her accomplishments are just as real as his. Its divisive and “insulting to think she or any other “African American” has any less stake or desire in seeing America as black and white, us and them etc. to be perpetually perceived as step children in our own country. USA! indeed.”
Of course. But we are not talking about Michelle, we are talking about Barak, who represents a different aspect of the “African-American” experience (which, btw, now theoretically includes North Africans as well). And btw, the Caribbean and Brazil,etc, were part of the transatlantic trade but the structure of slavery plus its length was significantly different in those areas as opposed to the US.
Back to the parental role discussion- my parents were none too thrilled when I married outside my “race,” religion, and geographical region (like try another continent), but they adapted and learned to get along and value the other person. Took my siblings awhile, but hey, they married non-Italians, too- except, they were slightly lighter-skinned. and I adjusted…
it works for some and for others not. I guess you have to figure out which one you are and deal with it.
95 · Liz said
Liz, hope this doesn’t come off as condescendingly humorous, but I clearly see that you are probably slightly frustrated. So I recommend u the following wesbites 😉
THE RIGHT STUFF—Date fellow graduates and faculty of the Ivies, Stanford, and a few other excellent schools. http://www.rightstuffdating.com; GreenSingles.com— Meet single book lovers who value green living, natural health, personal growth, spirituality
95 · Liz said
Yes you are so open minded, accepting, yummy goodness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright_controversy
Word. I’m happy Obama chose a dark skinned black woman who doesn’t have stereotypically white facial features. Look, I know love is complicated and I try not to judge but it’s hard when I see successful black men find wives who look like this and this.