Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin made history last night, as she addressed the RNC. In her speech, she (of the lifetime NRA membership) aimed barbed verbal ammunition at Barack Obama, though many reports indicated that she would not do so; so much for reciprocating his class-drenched gesture of reminding the press corps that he, too, was the child of a teen mother, and that they should back the muck off of Bristol Palin. I know, I get it– it’s the convention. It’s a pep rally, time to rile up the fans.
Palin displayed exquisite contempt while commenting on Obama’s past work as a “Community Organizer”; and yes, that’s exactly how she pronounced it, as if the words were too strangely shaped for her mouth, as if they should be chaperoned by quotes.
But, community Organizers do extraordinary things. If you don’t believe me, look here, at one of the most revered “Community Organizers”, ever:
From last night’s performance:
Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown.
And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves.
I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a “community organizer,” except that you have actual responsibilities. I might add that in small towns, we don’t quite know what to make of a candidate who lavishes praise on working people when they are listening, and then talks about how bitterly they cling to their religion and guns when those people aren’t listening.
We tend to prefer candidates who don’t talk about us one way in Scranton and another way in San Francisco…
Politics isn’t just a game of clashing parties and competing interests.
The right reason is to challenge the status quo, to serve the common good, and to leave this nation better than we found it.[npr]
Well that sounds…positively…Gandhian.
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Thank you, Nikki, for inspiring this post.
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Update/nb: Please do keep in mind that I’m not a fangirl of anyone I mentioned– I don’t think Gandhi or Obama are divine, but I do respect both of them, for different reasons. Additionally, I am not comparing Obama to the most famous brown person, ever; I am trying to open a space for discussion about the phrase “Community Organizer”, since I was struck with how much disrespect it marinated in, last night.
Finally, it may be worth noting that I harbor a wee bit of ill-will towards a party I once partied with– my very name, when mispronounced in Malayalam, in an American way, means Elephant)– but unfortunately, no longer recognize.
199 · Hitler was a war hero said
well, it was obama’s own group that allegedly made these claims, in fact he was a “founding member of the board of Public Allies “, ergo the connection. IBD also supplies quotes from obama/michelle which aren’t terrible but may strike people wired like me the wrong way. fair game to criticize that. thats part of the culture wars. i envison an america where we all go out to work for our own self interest, not the obama’s vison as quoted by IBD:
“Don’t go into corporate America,” Michelle has exhorted youth. “Work for the community. Be social workers.” Shun the “money culture,” Barack added. “Individual salvation depends on collective salvation.”
I think this is bad advice, especially for poor youths who should be looking to create wealth for themselves. I think its fair to criticize the obama’s for this and for people to vote along these lines. not that this should be the be end and end all, but its a fair factor.
200 · Hitler was a war hero said
look, politicians answer for groups they belong to. bush got skewered for speaking at bob jones u, both obama and mccain have had to answer for preachers, etc. i agree it gets tedious at times especially when the connection is tenuous, but its still far from a smear.
Hitler is used as a pop-culture-punch-line, in India and stateside too…
But as far as I know, the only communities he organized, were then put on transports and hauled to be gassed…so while he was a Community Organizer – the meaning of it is even further from the way Obama meant it, than implying that he is a Community Organizer in the Gandhian sense…So all that handle means to me, is that Obama is closer to Gandhi than Hitler. Neither here nor there…well unless you are Thackeray, Soros, Olbermann or Sarvarkar.
In short, Yes I think it is ridiculous 🙂
Ignorant nonsense Hitler. Lobbyists in Washington are hired guns who have nothing to do with community organizing.
That is not an answer to my question. Why are you so embarrassed to admit that you are a loony libertarian?
Typically amoral libertarian selfishness. Why so much hostility to doing good from your ilk? And do you really think democrats dont pay taxes?
In fact, it is the Red Republican States that take in more dole from the government than they pay out in taxes. That is yet another example of republican hypocrisy, pointing fingers at minorities when it is their own overwhelmingly white base that benefits the most from government charity.
205 · Mac_attack said
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blockquote>
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blockquote>Ignorant nonsense Hitler. Lobbyists in Washington are hired guns who have nothing to do with community organizing.
Are you saying “community organizer” is an unpaid job.
That is the answer to your question. And I am not embarrassed to admit that I have libertarian sympathies. Anyway your characterization of libertarianism as loony shows your receptivity to viewpoints disagreeing with you and by implication your class.
206 · Mac_attack said
204 · RahulD said
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne130908incoldblood.asp
Interview with Raj Thackeray
Q You are fond of Hitler. What do you like about him? A. I like his organisational skills, the way he worked on development.
Character is the true measure of class. The contempt your ilk shows towards “do-gooders” betrays your class or lack thereof, doesn’t it?
If you got a problem with taxes, organized communities, social good and democracy, maybe you should exile yourself from modern civilized society and move into a jungle.
Can you name any nation that is truly libertarian? Which society today, or in history, comes closest to the libertarian ideal?
211 · Mac_attack: Can you name any nation that is truly libertarian? Which society today, or in history, comes closest to the libertarian ideal?
Only coz you asked!
Off the top of my head, Present: The state of New Hampshire, Bahamas, Monaco, Virgin Islands, Isle of Man…a few others Past: Venice, Athens, and probably Mohenjo Daro…amongst many.
211 · Mac_attack said
212 · RahulD said
Libertarian = offshore tax haven? 🙂 I would be really interested in where you get your history from as well. Presumably when Socrates was (allegedly) executed for corrupting the youth, that was libertarian?
Anyway, it’s a fun game though 🙂 How about Rome? How about the Maurya Empire? how about the Incan empire? 🙂
😛
Final (and on-topic) thoughts, everyone? Time
for mercy-killingto close the thread, soon.What? We have to talk about community organizing in Mohenjo Daro and the Mauryan Empire if we’re going to continue? 🙂
Anyway, thanks for putting us out of our misery 🙂
216 · SM Intern said
Just that Kwame Kilpatrick was a mayor.
216 · SM Intern said
Is this standard SM policy to close down threads after certain time or a certain number of comments?
218 · Hitler was a war hero said
And a Demoncrat 🙂
Constitutional Monarchy or Slavery are not at odds with libertarian theory…ask Hans Hermann Hoppe about the former or anyone who believes that Property Rights trump all…
I was making the point that you cant really define “libertarian” by what POV you have of it. I’m not trying to argue with you, but the argument you were getting into is pointless. Find a better point
220 · HitlerWasACommunityOrganizer said
Just like Hitler? And James West?
222 · Hitler was a war hero said
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blockquote>220 · HitlerWasACommunityOrganizer said
From the wikipedia article on James West: West was cleared of all charges by the FBI on February 16, 2006.
221 · RahulD said
<
blockquote>Constitutional Monarchy or Slavery are not at odds with libertarian theory…ask Hans Hermann Hoppe about the former or anyone who believes that Property Rights trump all…
I agree with you that there are way too many definitions of libertarianism but one I have found consistent is the supremacy of Property Rights and as a corollary Individual Rights (since you own yourself). That definitely rules out slavery and goes quite a way against Monarchy. Anyway how is ancient Athens libertarian? And Monaco (apart from low taxes)?
202 · Manju said
First off, that wasn’t what you quoted. You quoted incendiary parts from a right wing agenda driven rag and attributed these views to Obama. Second, even these amended views you quote don’t have any evidence behind them. Third, even if you had evidence that these quotations are true, we can then argue about the pros and cons of the opposing views: your bootstrap theories, vs. government assistance to the disadvantaged. And we can evaluate these views against the cold empirical evidence of the last 50 years: when it comes to middle class wealth, when it comes to reducing income inequality (which also affects the lowest rung), when it comes to the wealth of the richest, and so on. But empirical data here points solidly against the trickle down republican b.s., so you are reduced to repeating smears.
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That was quoted in the IBD editorial.
More pure BS. #3 for you. They did not attribute those views to Obama. They specifically cited them as part of a training materials from a group in which obama was a founding member. Why don’t you back up your claims with quotes? If IBD attirbuted these views to Obama provide the quote. If I claimed Obama was on board with this then quote me writing it. I presume you’ve backed off your claims that these charges are unprovable and I claimed Obama supports it.
oops…here’s better formatting
That was quoted in the IBD editorial
More pure BS. #3 for you. They and I did not attribute those views to Obama. They specifically cited them as part of a training materials from a group in which obama was a founding member. Why don’t you back up your claims with quotes? If IBD attirbuted these views to Obama provide the quote. If I claimed Obama was on board with this then quote me writing it.
We have evidence. Investors business daily, a major publication. Agenda driven, yes, but not exactly an anonymous commenator on a blog. more like the nation or national review. it would be news if they just made up quotes as i’m sure left wing partisans would pounce. but so far nothing, as far as i know. maybe tomoroow morning. but if not, fairly safe to say they are accurate. no liberal would allow a well known publication to get away with that.
sure. fair politics.
sounds like you’re the one smearing IBD with no proof. They provided direct quotes after all. not to hard to disprove.
…brown.
228 · razib said
Is that the safe word?
227 · Manju said
You mean like.. whitey?
You sure fooled us then with all your contempt for community organizers and social good achieved with taxes via the democratic process…..
Switzerland comes easily to mind.
Switzerland has universal state backed health care, compulsory service in the military/militia, official religion in some cantons etc. What do you find libertarian about that?
Try again.
231 · Mac_attack said
Wouldnt it be more accurate to say that you lied? Now the very purpose of a lie is to fool people isnt it? Either you have a problem with community organizers or you dont. Which is it?
Actually you did say that. That is a direct quote. Why did you say that and why are you now lying that that you did not say that?
It is all about you, you, you eh? As if you earned in a vacuum. And dont flatter yourself, you arent that intelligent. For your information most taxes are paid not by selfish and greedy people such as yourself. In a democracy if the majority of people were like you, you wouldn’t need to whine like this.
Why not go for private security and national defense by the same logic? Why do you want to suck on the teats of those citizens who dont want the services of police, jails, armies as much as you do?
More ignorant nonsense. Unfortunately for your delusions about the swiss being libertarians, here is the reality:
http://healthcare-economist.com/2007/11/27/swiss-healthcare-system/
“The Swiss government mandates that all individuals purchase health insurance. While the insurance is subsidized by the government–and more heavily subsidized for poor Swiss individuals–most Swiss pay a large percentage of their insurance premiums. The government pays 25% of the premium while the individual pays the rest.
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blockquote>For a small country conscription may be necessary
Explain why? And explain why you think Switzerland is libertarian despite conscription, despite mandating health care and subsidizing the premium of the poor citizens, and despite having official religions. How does a good locale and tax incentives for foreign investors override these gross violations of libertarian ideology?
233 · Mac_attack said
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blockquote>
Wouldnt it be more accurate to say that you lied? Now the very purpose of a lie is to fool people isnt it? Either you have a problem with community organizers or you dont. Which is it?
And so I did. Sorry for the brain fart, 36 hours without sleep does that to you I guess. I hope to respond to you soon (if this thread is kept alive till then).
230 · Hitler was a war hero said
You just made my point for me. Notice what happened with the whitey smear against michelle obama, originated by a rabid clinton supporter (larry johnson) right b/f obama seized the nom (timing is important to smears). Now his blog, no quarter, is of far less prominence than investors business daily, a widely read wall st publication. Yet the allegation was immediately picked up and debunked, most prominently by national review and reason (though, interstingly, that diddn’t prevent the MSM from claiming this was a “right wing” smear, though they corrected themselves when it was bought ot their attention). Johnson’s claims could not be verified and his political opponents pounced to discredit him.
If you are right, we almost certainly will see the same happen to IBD.
I wonder what would happen if this conversation was allowed to continue endlessly. We’ve already Godwinned it, and that doesn’t have seem to have done anything – though maybe Godwins’ law is eurocentric 🙂 I think either we would come to some profound agreement / disagreement, or it would go on endlessly, in circles, to the last syllable of recorded time. Are we talking to each other or talking to ourselves? Both?
Discuss.
(until the hall monitor gets here 🙂
We’ve already Godwinned it
Not if Hitler/Nazi was in the alias.
the latest rasmussan polls show the race even, indicating mccains convention bounce is dissipating, as i predicted. nonetheless, palin has rattled obama, he looks bumbling and uncool. he’s off his game. he should have known the lipstick comment was unwise after palin herself famously used the word in her speech. clinton said similarly stupid things when she was desperate (bobby kennedy, white americans, though one could argue the last one was intentional, not just a freudain slip).
he needs to get over palin. my advice: attack progressive misogyny (sorry, dr a, this will hurt). identity politics has long mimicked traditional bigotry by reducing women to a narrow set of beliefs, as opposed to feminism being an over-arching inclusive princple most women probably could identify with. take on wendy donnigers claim that palin’s “greatest hypocrisy is in her pretense that she is a woman.” slam South Carolina Democratic chairwoman Carol Fowler for saying John McCain had chosen a running mate “whose primary qualification seems to be that she hasn’t had an abortion.†attack NOW for saying palin is “more a conservative man than she is a woman on woman’s issues.” point out the factual inaccuracy of steinem’s claim that Palin “opposes just about every issue that women support by a majority or plurality.”
most americans will find these comments incendiary, sexist even. obama will look chivalrous and this will help with elder women and pumas. he neutralizes palin while simultaneously triangulating like clinton successfully did (“bean counters”). by taking on his own extremists he blunts the underlying charge of the community organizer” mocking, that he’s a radical.
political winner and principled. no brainer.
233 · Mac_attack said
237 · Dr AmNonymous said
234· Mac_attack said
What a complete idiot! Based on your asinine reasoning you are probably a fool yourself. Actually your irrational posts, and the fact that you didnt realize that that argument applies to you as well, make it a certainty. 🙂
Who else but a fool would claim that Switzerland which mandates and subsidizes education, health care and military service is the most admirably libertarian nation he can think of??
Here is news for you genius: all leaders whether political, military, religious etc, are community organizers. The generals and CEOs of the military industrial complex sucking at the “govt teat” are also community organizers. Why dont you have a problem with these teat suckers? Lets be consistent here.
Thats a shameless, outrageous lie. Based on your own selfish libertarian reasoning, you are indeed sucking on society’s teats. If you want protection for your little convenience store hire your own security. Why should tax payers who rarely or never need the services of the police have to pay for your protection?
because private armies lead to heterosexism, white supremacy, patriarchy and male-dominated privilege.
241 · HitlerWasACommunityOrganizer said
243· Mac_attack said
245 · Dr AmNonymous said
No need to wonder. Mercy-closed. 😉