On May 2, George W. Bush explained that the current spike in food prices worldwide is primarily a consequence of rising demand from China and India: “when you start getting wealth, you start demanding better nutrition and better food, and so demand is high, and that causes the price to go up.” The quote was widely seen in the English-language Indian media as “blaming” Chindia for the problem, and was met with outrage.
Some of that outrage is collected in a recent IHT article on the President’s controversial statement. Some of the best, most snarky comments are by Pradeep Mehta, who works for a private economic research organization in India:
The food problem has “clearly” been created by Americans, who are eating 50 percent more calories than the average person in India, said Pradeep Mehta, the secretary general of CUTS Center for International Trade, Economics and Environment, a private economic research organization based in India with offices in Kenya, Zambia, Vietnam and Britain.
If Americans were to slim down to even the middle-class weight in India, “many hungry people in sub-Saharan Africa would find food on their plates,” Mehta said. The money Americans spend on liposuction to get rid of their excess fat could be funneled to famine victims instead, he added. (link)
And somewhat more measured comments, along with some more statistics on caloric consumption, are here:
Americans eat an average of 3,770 calories per capita a day, the highest amount in the world, according to data from the UN Food and Agricultural Organization, compared to 2,440 calories in India. They are also the largest per capita consumers in any major economy of beef, the most energy-intensive common food source, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The United States and Canada top the world in oil consumption per person, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.
“George Bush has never been known for his knowledge of economics,” Jairam Ramesh, the minister of state for commerce, told The Press Trust of India after Bush’s remarks, which he said proved again how “comprehensively wrong” Bush is.
“To say that demand for food in India is causing increase in global food prices is completely wrong,” Ramesh said.
Politicians and academics in India cite various other reasons: diversion of arable land in the United States and Europe into ethanol production; trade subsidies by the United States and Europe; and the dollar’s decline. (link)
Those latter factors (ethanol production, trade subsidies, dollar’s decline) have also been cited by a number of economists in the west. Still, the President and Condoleezza Rice (who made a similar statement a couple of weeks ago) are presumably right when they say that there has been a rise in global demand, though I have a strong feeling that that demand started to rise more than a decade ago. It’s those other factors that, as I understand it, have really converged this year to drive up prices. (Does anyone really know? Is this an economics problem that can be solved?)
Consumption-wise, I admittedly look like an ordinary American: my own caloric intake is probably closer to 3000 than 2000 (though I’ve admittedly never been able to count it out… how many calories in roti? rajma-chaval? chicken biryani?). Still, on this issue, I can’t help but see things from the Indian point of view: “Why do Americans think they deserve to eat more than Indians?”
47 · portmanteau said
No. Subsidies protect the American farmer, and thus kills third world competition. Since this inhibits world competition of farmers, food prices go up. You’re being sarcastic right? It’s simply protectionism.
Dilettante asked:
Maybe because Unicef said:
You’re right that they’re not starving to death, Africa has high infant mortality, higher than India. However, and this isn’t well known, India has higher morbidity, i.e. illness and malnutrition than African countries do.
MD – this also explains why people in India might be touchy about the food price issue. When a large number of children have their health at risk, being told that you were the cause of rising food prices (which isn’t even analytically accurate) stings.
I think contributions are nmeasured by how much carbon dioxide is emitted and not which source is equal to some other or not. And since it is usually some kind of cost being transferred to people then “per capita” has to be taken it into account. What I don’t understand is that Republican talk about entitlement spending but what abt entitlement consumption ?
US farm subsidies cost $320 / household.
The mechanism you refer to is more for tariffs. There competition is hindered by making their produce costlier through import duties. In subsidization, you are actually reducing the cost of production and thus other producers cannot compete because the produce is too cheap.
Of course, it’s us the tax payer who is paying for these subsidies – thus indirectly its not cheaper since you are paying higher tax to ensure these subsidies. You have a point since we are paying for our own subsidy which then gets sold to the rest of the world at our expense for a below production cost rate. Also, A fair playing field/free market will allow producers in other parts of the world to innovate and eventually drive down true costs of production.
Long term subsidies are always a bad thing. Short term ones provide stimulus for investment and innovation, long term ones kill it.
yeah, all this is true, but the immediate short-term shock to food prices from removal of subsidies will result in a temporary increase in food prices. there will be some lag until various food producers adjust production. i’m not saying removing subsidies is a bad idea: only pointing out that increases in food prices is likely (contrary to your claim). subsidies do pass on cheaper food prices to consumers, but also take away from tax-paying households which finance them (i see that ennis has linked to a precise net figure).
Thank goodness not everybody is as ill-informed as Moornam. The rise of ethanol has a lot to do with the influential corn grower and farming lobby in the midwest, not because shaggy haired Birkenstock wearing hippies suddenly convinced the Bush administration to stick it to Detroit.
As for ethanol itself, there were many warnings from serious environmentalists even before it was adopted, both in terms of its efficiency directly as a fuel, and its carbon footprint purely in the process of converting corn to ethanol. In addition, many of the supporters – even those who believe in the obvious myth of global warming – wanted it as a stop gap, not a long term solution to all of the world’s environmental problems. Furthermore, with ethanol, the devil is in the details. There are multiple forms: corn ethanol and cellulosic ethanol. The latter is usually from farming waste, and has fewer bad environmental implications than corn ethanol.
54 · Ennis said
No problem. That’s like two tax rebate checks, so it’s really a net positive for us.
Me neither. The Diabetes India calorie counter has some suggestions, though: Various styles of roti without ghee/oil – 92-94 calories each Chicken biryani, 1 plate – 524 calories
Actually, Indians and Chinese peeps are consuming too much food. Diabetes is on the rise for these two groups. Plus, people don’t work on the farms any more, and they eat gulab jamons (however you spell it) all the time. It especially happens to NRI’s (like my grandma).
Rahul S,
Are you for real? Do you think before you type or you have to type the first thought that comes to your mind? Everyone in India eating Gulab Jamuns and people not working on farms, I have heard everything now
61 · Umber Desi said
Naw man. I’m for real. Let’s analyze this. Diabetes has been on the run in India & China. Why? Their diet is changing & their ways of living are also. Indians & Chinese peeps used to farm like crazy, but now it’s becoming more industrialized. Less working out, and Indians diet (not to stereotype), is based on sweets. I mean, desis eat a lot of sweets. I also read a study that stated that lot of NRI’s get diabetes in 1st world countries because they have the opportunity to eat foods that their ancestors didn’t (plus we really don’t farm as much as we used to).
Starving whitey by gorging on too many gulab jamuns – priceless.
GWB needs to shut the eff up and pack his bags.
That is all.
People should stop eating gulab flavoured Spanish ham.
Often overlooked by people like us (not living in India) is the fact that malnourishment exists in India at rates equal to or eclipsing what we find in sub-Saharan Africa.
That’s a fact. It doesn’t fit into the whole “India rising” or “India shining” message so it gets thrown aside.
The global food production/trading framework is perhaps the clearest example of how colonialist/mercantilist policies of yesterday still very much underpin the international trading order.
What this ‘disagreement’ between India and the US signals more than anything is how two countries on very different trajectories view the problem (and who is at fault).
The US will increasingly find itself challenged for control of the global system. This is just one small example: food. What about things like giving India a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. Or, allowing for a non-westerner to be head of the IMF or World Bank?
You will find America increasingly unwilling to share it’s plate when it comes to these fundamental issues of being more democratic in maintaining the new world order.
62 · Rahul S said
really? as far as i know most of india can’t even afford milk and sugar on a regular basis. now, would you kindly point us to some sources, or stop generalizing based on anecdotal data?
And so could that excess fat.
Jus’ sayin’.
Things are a little better if you have a heart of stone, though.
Bush should listen to Volcker instead of looking eastward. The “Related Videos” section on top right has Volcker’s testimony to the congressional Joint Economic Committee in Washington today.
Rice and dollar/Euro 1-year chart.
2006 Comparison Consumption of wheat, rice, corn, vegetable oil, milk, beef and chicken in USA, Europe, India and China. (in pounds per person) [link]
GRIN (great unreported inflation) acres: US farmer’s costs per acre of corn — fertlizer, land rent, seed, fuel, crop insurance — in 2007 and 2008.
67 · let them eat cake said
Let me clarify. Desi’s who are middle class (or richer) eat a lot of sweets. True. Stereotypes are true to a degree. No lie. Cultures retain certain aspects. Read Dinesh D’Souza’s End of Racism. Good book.
desis are more prone to heart disease as reported by JAMA-pajama.
That’s a good one… you made me laugh… tell another one.
What’s so Great About America.
By Dinesh D’souza.
71 · Rahul S said
keeping in mind that in his latest ‘scholarly’ work (try citing it in a paper at any undergrad institution) he encouraged the reader to make common cause with OBL’s friends on the social-con wing of extremist Islam and walk hand-in-hand, blaming teh gays/hollywood/teletubbies for all the ills in the world. Oh yeah, and according to him, 9/11 WAS an inside job–teh gays again!
What’s so great about America? Brown guys can move here from third-world countries, drop contentious aspects of their identities (like difficult to pronounce first names–though this is more true of Bobby than Dinesh), make pathetic overtures to a right-wing conservatism looking for token posterboys, maybe find a politically well-connected spouse, pander relentlessly, feed the oversimplification of American history, extrapolate from the relatively easy experience you had getting a voice in this country, and write books for intellectual light-weights.
Is that what makes Amerika so gRRRReat?
I suggest looking up a real scholar… maybe Ron Takaki, his book “A Different Mirror” should be required reading. It deals with real history, not fitting scholarship to fit the needs of the Republican platform.
I seriously doubt that Dinesh’s intellectual light bulb has the wattage to illuminate issues like the current food crisis.
Maybe the title of his next book can be, “Why is America’s Food so Great?” There he can martial cherry-picked factoids, sprinle it with truisms, pander to people’s sense of insecurity, and then leave them feeling better about themselves by reassuring them that only America’s climate of freedom and market dynamic could bring us innovations like french fries smothered in cheese.
USA is a convenient symbol, the dreaded “foreign hand” (remember indira G. and her paranoia?) thats getting in the way of indians getting food. Its an easy way for indian politicians to focus attention away from their inability to build roads or schools or provide market infrastructure in rural areas.
Take a bus ride to 50 miles outside any indian city. Suddenly you will have gone back 1000 years. Dirt lanes, sewage flowing thru open drains, lack of any infrastructure. Farmers have no access to markets or storage facilities, food is still routinely dried and preserved in the open.
But as long as the votes are coming in, who cares?
Read more about it – India’s Forgotten Farmers
Love the snark. More obliquely, I love that it is a desi voice that is taking on the englishspeakingworld in their game. that wasnt a racebait. i will explain.
i can point to instances from canadian media (including the publicly funded cbc), where the interviewer deliberately seeds the conversation to present an us and them slant – with the darkies usually getting the sharp end of the stick. one popular way the interviewer loads the discussion is by asking a closed end question on a hypothesis that reflects a partial but biased view of the situation. for instance – in stead of saying – “what do you think caused the famine?”, they would ask, “do you think the corrupt government officials exacerbated the famine?”. Why is this wrong? I agree that local corruption could be part of the problem, but what of the generational poverty, the poor supply chain, the multinational that squeezed out local grain and forced the farmer to grow gm crops, and what of the country that promised drought relief but sent thick woollen blankets to a land scorched by the sun. There is much more under the surface. I expect a well thought out essay and the soundbites infuriate me. These are just low brow maneuvers masked under the plummy tone and the sanctimonious claim to balanced canadian reporting.
OF COURSE the media has a role in propagating the myth that white is right – especially when the loudest, farthest reaching mouthpieces speak with a tongue that is not native to the non-european nations. as recently as a few years back it was not uncommon to see some desi government official repudiate a western pov in arcane, floral angrezi, in love with himself for his knowledge of the master’s language. even if the counterpoint was valid, without the benefit of a hinglish-english translater, that spokesperson never stood a chance in the policy debate. it was easy to dismiss the counterpoint as the ramblings of an unintelligent gnome[because of the grade 7 language skills]. some shifts have occurred recently. al jazeera is the biggest counter-offensive; more real for the rest of us there is growing multiculti rep in the media, at least in canada. Much more exciting to me personally, the voices out of desh [i dont have visibility into china and africa owned media] are genuinely entertaining [entertainment trumps truth any day of course].
p.s. pliss excuse. the effect on the reader of my runon thoughts notwithstanding i know what i want to say.
sweets are not the only way to increase one’s blood sugar. basically, eating anything processed will, as well as other foods that are forbidden on a diabetic’s diet – e.g. rice, which is a huge staple in the average indian’s diet. if you already have a genetic propensity to diabetes (as most desis do) most ingredients of almost any culture’s diet will tend to increase, rather than decrease, the chances of developing it in a full-blown form. it is really hard for the average person to avoid these pitfalls, since staples like (non-whole grain) bread, rice, and fruits are a staple in so many diets. as for the increase in india and china, that might have much to do with the increase of processed foods in general, not necessarily only things seen as sweets.
Aparna Ray from Kolkata coins her protest in a limerick:
“Prez George Bush, it has come to pass, Has laid blame on our Middle Class. It seems we have hurled, The rest of the world, Into crisis by not chewing grass!”
Rahul, I can’t believe that you like D’Souza, he is a Desi Uncle Tom.
Read Dinesh D’Souza’s End of Racism. Good book.
If you want decontextualized readings of things yeah.
76 · Krish**** said
At least he has assimilated. Yea, you may disagree with his politics. But the thing is that new immigrants (mainly from south of the border) aren’t assimilating. Worse off, their kids are are clinging on to their culture without assimilating to American culture. The fact is, the “new immigrants” are having way more kids out of wedlock than African Americans, and degrading our society. Not all, but a huge chunk. Check this national review article.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTY4NzEyODcxNTYxZWViYWQyOTAzNGI4YzZhMDlkNDg=
md, you aren’t the only one (i don’t agree with you about evertyhing, but the way people disagree on this weblog seems to have shifted).
anyway, i skimmed the comments so please excuse if others brought this up but i didn’t notice
1) yes, south asians have issues with their metabolisms which are different from whites. in short, we need to be thinner/lighter to have the same risk of diabetes and other diseases of obesity. this is probably because our mitochondria are more efficient at converting nutrients into energy (i will post the study later when i have time to look it up)
2) let’s remember variance. it is true that obesity & diabetes are a problem in developing nations because the middle and upper middle classes are using their marginal income to purchase energy rich foods. that being said
3) yes, if you look at the data south asians are often less well fed that people in many african nations. south asia is ‘naturally’ closer to its malthusian limit.
4) in 1800 the average english laborer took in well over 3,000 calories per day. they weren’t fat. but obviously their lifestyles differed in terms of energy expended.
5) so what you see in a place like india are calorie increases going to the sector where energy expenditure is decreasing because of shifts toward white collar work. go figure that obesity and diabetes are problems….
6) what famines were there in america? the dustbowl? my understanding is that north america was exceptional in never having famines like europe or asia. americans were until the late 20th century taller than europeans for that reason.
Here’s an interesting blog-post on the food price topic. Shat argues that increasing world affluence –> decreased elasticity of demand for food –> higher price increases necessary to reduce demand when there are supply shocks (from, e.g., drought or the biofuel boom).
Here’s an interesting blog-post on the food price topic. Shah argues that increasing world affluence –> decreased elasticity of demand for food –> higher price increases necessary to reduce demand when there are supply shocks (from, e.g., drought or the biofuel boom).
I agree with the sentiments that adopting vegetarian diet would alleviate the food crisis and even benefit the environment. This would work only if large portions or a critical mass of the world’s meat eaters gave up all or most of the meat in their diets, in my opinion. Somehow I doubt most omnivores would give up meat or even reduce their consumption because they will perceive it as a drastic change.
Unsure if the US will get affected by the food crisis as badly as the rest of the world at least in the near future. Americans (and the Desis settled in the US) waste food like crazy, based on my observations. I don’t see the food crisis changing the average American’s eating habits. Just observe the tons of food left on the table as people leave a restaurant, etc. It doesn’t help that restaurants also super size most of the greasy/starchy/oversalted/sugary stuff like sodas, french fries, etc. Of course, I have no problem in trashing food that is spoiled or unfit to consume. Restaurants are not the only places to toss perfectly good food. Even when we attend dinners/lunches at neighbors’, people – especially kids, pile up their plates and end up wasting tons of food. Same thing happens in the elementary and middle schools during lunch.
In my household, I have raised my little one to never waste food and to just take much smaller portions of starches and more of the vegetables/fruits, dals, beans and whole grains. When going (rarely) to restaurants like Friendly’s or Bertuccis, my daughter orders mac n cheese, grilled cheese from the “kid menus” and those items always comes with a large amount of fries. On top of that, there is usually a huge dessert at the end of the kids meals. I don’t know how most kids can stomach these insanely big portions of food. I usually never order anything because I end up eating her leftovers. To those without kids yet, it probably sounds gross and disgusting. However, if my daughter can’t finish an ice cream sundae or fries, my husband and I are like vultures waiting for her leftovers.
If we do want to be non-vegetarian, the only meat we should eat is other humans. Addresses the food problem by simultaneously increasing supply and reducing demand. Not to mention the other salubrious effects on the environment.
In my last post, I meant to say my daughter orders things like mac n cheese OR a grilled cheese. We never order both of those grease laden dishes at the same time from a menu at a restaurant ever! One of those “kids” portions is plenty of food for one child and a petite adult (like me.).
no, not at all. even in the desh, my mother used to eat from my plate after I have finished. Two reasons – one to prevent wastage of food and the other to save water. I was raised in a Chennai slum where water scarcity often resulted in fisticuffs.
88 · Democralypse now said
That might work well if your name is Idi Amin or you are a practicing satan worshipper/vampire.
Jonathan Swift had a similar idea to yours in his essay “A Modest Proposal” about 300 years ago. http://grammar.about.com/od/60essays/a/modpropoessay.htm
khoofia:
Why is that wrong? Isn’t it the govts incompetence and corruption that is responsible for the “poor supply chain”, “generational poverty”, endemic hunger and other problems that plague India and other backward nations?
Rahul_S:
The level of ignorance/delusion/deceit here is staggering. Far from eating too much indians are the most malnourished people on the planet. Secondly, the great majority of indians still live in villages.
True dat Krish. Its disgusting how stubbornly indians close their eyes to the widespread hunger and malnourishment in India which leads the world in this damning measure in both absolute and percentage terms.
Observe how typically shameless Pradeep Mehta is in the blog post above, using hungry africans instead of hungrier fellow indians to make his point:
I agree with the sentiments that adopting vegetarian diet would alleviate the food crisis and even benefit the environment. This would work only if large portions or a critical mass of the world’s meat eaters gave up all or most of the meat in their diets, in my opinion. Somehow I doubt most omnivores would give up meat or even reduce their consumption because they will perceive it as a drastic change.
vegetarianism is fine as long as people take creatine supplements. there’s a fair amount of evidence that creatine increasese IQ in vegetarians, but not meat eaters, because meat already has the necessary goodies.
6 · my_dog_jagat said
Mere_kutha_Jagat_hai, hello bhaiya. I’ve got a couple of economics questions for you and all the other lurkers here. I’m trying to understand why economies sell at below costs, and maybe you folks can help me out. I read on newsgroups that China sells at below-costs to encourage manufacturing operations within their own countries. Other reasons why entities sell at below-costs is to create a market, and then, they raise prices once again. This is a predatory pricing tactic, and one of the benefits of this (to the predatory pricers) is that it prevents market entrants.
What does India have to gain by selling at below costs their rice?
Are there goods/services which Americans export that are underpriced?
Fact 1: Here is what Bush said: “There are 350 million people in India who are classified as middle class. That’s bigger than America. Their middle class is larger than our entire population. And when you start getting wealth, you start demanding better nutrition and better food. And so demand is high, and that causes the price to go up.� See http://themoderatevoice.com/science/environment/nature/19461/in-defense-of-bushs-gaffe-on-rising-food-prices/ This is not factually incorrect. Prosperity in two of the world’s largest countries is changing their eating habits. See: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/25/AR2008042503096_pf.html for how eating hapbtis are changing
Fact 2: The “crisis” is being precipitated by speculation. “We have enough food to feed the world” says the UN. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080428/un_food_080428/20080428?hub=World
7 · Neil Bansal said
Neil:
I’m actually concerned that there is going to be an anti-Chindian rhetoric in the USA with respect to rising commodity prices. I do suspect that Americans feel that Indians are accustomed to malnutrition, and that they are entitled to a richer diet. Condi Rice’s comments sure seems to lay blame on Chindians (NOTE: no quotes are around the word ‘blame’ when I use it). Finally, there is a way to scholarly discuss why commodities, esp. foods, are rising without having to finger point and creating an ‘us-against-them’ attitude. The Bush Administration could have been truthful and said that some of the blame was due to the weakened dollar, since we import so much foods. The Bush Administration could have also talked about how their failed ethanol policy exacerbated this rise in costs. Now that’s being truthful and not laying blame on the Chindians.
Another thing: I am VERY VERY concerned about this rise in costs in India. Could this lead to a mass starvation like the one Ethiopia faced in ’84?
There are a lot of convoluted policies at play when it comes to agriculture. Subsidies and tariffs discourage open and free trade of agricultural goods and purports to save the farmers. The fact that the end result is the opposite for most farmers gets lost in the rhetoric. The developed countries are to blame for this but the developing nations like India have grossly underinvested in agriculture over the last couple of decades. This means that the supply becomes a problem too at the time when demand is increasing. Now that prices are at all time highs maybe common sense will prevail and there will be a freer trade in agricultural products. And hopefully, the Indian politicians can stop worrying about IPL cheerleaders and implement policies to sow the seeds for another Green Revolution.
According to a World bank study, subsidies and export tariffs in developed countries cost farmers in developing world lost income of $100 billion/year. And the farm subsidies in the OECD nations last year totalled $283 billion!!