The blogosphere is alight with the story of a (former) professor at Dartmouth named Priya Venkatesan. Teaching is a tough job and I have the highest regard for some of the amazing teachers I’ve had the privilege of learning from over the years. Priya, however, is apparently not quite in that class (pun intended).
The WSJ provides one summary of the case –
Priya Venkatesan taught English at Dartmouth College. She maintains that some of her students were so unreceptive of “French narrative theory” that it amounted to a hostile working environment. She is also readying lawsuits against her superiors, who she says papered over the harassment, as well as a confessional exposé, which she promises will “name names.”The trauma was so intense that in March Ms. Venkatesan quit Dartmouth and decamped for Northwestern. She declined to comment for this piece, pointing instead to the multiple interviews she conducted with the campus press.
<
p>What praytell were these unruly students doing to our poor teacher? And, aside from her personal ethnicity, is there a desi angle to the story?
<
p>First, it appears that the students in her class shared a good chunk of my aversion to the PostModernist deconstruction of Science –
Ms. Venkatesan lectured in freshman composition, intended to introduce undergraduates to the rigors of expository argument. “My students were very bully-ish, very aggressive, and very disrespectful,” she told Tyler Brace of the Dartmouth Review. “They’d argue with your ideas.” This caused “subversiveness,” a principle English professors usually favor.Ms. Venkatesan’s scholarly specialty is “science studies,” which, as she wrote in a journal article last year, “teaches that scientific knowledge has suspect access to truth.” She continues: “Scientific facts do not correspond to a natural reality but conform to a social construct.”
In my book, folks like this deserve much of the same scorn as Creationists. One finds a benevolent God having begat a weird brand of science; the other a malevolent Rich / White / Old / Male power structure. All the while, neither seem to have problems with the products of said science ranging from airplanes, to the Internet, to medicine.
A few students’ course evaluations are online and highlight a toxic classroom environment –
If she teaches here… don’t take this course. Period. She defines a terrible prof, she is offended when people ask questions about her lectures and does not grade/give feedback on papers. Grade based solely on if she likes you/ you writing reflects her “sophisticated” ideas.
…Aside from the fact that I learnt nothing of value in this class besides the repeated use of the word “postmodernism” in all contexts (whether appropriate or not) and the fact that Professor Venkatesan is the most confusing/nonsensical lecturer ever, the main problem with this class is the personal attacks launched in class. Almost every member of the class was personally attacked in some form in the class by either intimidation or ignoring your questions/comments/concerns. If you decide to take this class, prepare to NOT be allowed to express your own opinions in class because you have “yet to obtain your Ph.D/masters/bachelors degree”.
And, one particularly brave student sounds like he had enough. Priya – to her credit – tells the tale in a blog interview –
[Priya:] I made the argument that in many cases science and technology did not benefit women, and if women were benefiting science and technology, it was an aftereffect. It was not the goal of science and technology.
…But there was one student who really took issue with this–and he took issue with this, and he made a very–I’d call it a diatribe, and it was sort of like, well–science and technology, women really did benefit from it, and to criticize patriarchal authority on the basis that science and technology benefited patriarchy or men, was not sufficient grounds for this type of feminist claim. And he did this with great rhetorical flourish; it was very invective, it was a very invective sort of tone. And I think what happened afterwards was that some people–I can’t name them, and I don’t know how many there were, but it was a significant number–started clapping for his statements. It was a very humiliating moment to my life; it was extremely humiliating, that my students would clap against me,
Priya goes on to describe how that student caused her to have some sort of breakdown that sent her to the (womyn-friendly?) hospital and miss a week of class. Personally, if I could find that student, I’d contribute to his college beer fund.
What took the crap to a level beyond a run-of-the-mill student teacher disagreement, however, was Priya’s truly bizarre response. She threatened a lawsuit in widely circulated emails to her class –
Dear Student:
As a courtesy, you are being notified that you are being named in a potential class action suit that is being brought against Dartmouth College, which is being accused of violating federal anti-discrimination laws. Please do not respond to this email because it will be potentially used against you in a court of law.
Priya Venkatesan, PhD
<
p>And she’s already promised a tell-all book –
[I’m] writing a book detailing my experiences as your instructor, which will ‘name names’ so to speak. I have all of your evaluations and these will be reproduced in the book.”
<
p>The Desi angle? As Harvard’s Crimson reports, that card was introduced by Priya –
Last week, a few students in the Dartmouth writing class “Science, Technology, and Society” received a nasty shock. When they checked their inboxes, they learned that their professor, Priya Venkatesan, was planning to sue them for discrimination. Later investigations revealed that she also planned to sue the College and several faculty members, not referring to any particular episode, but mentioning the “hostility” she felt during her time as a professor and saying that “maybe it has something to do with my ethnicity or my gender.”
Let’s be clear – there absolutely are real instances of ethnic and gender discrimination in the world. However, Priya’s screed is a fantastic example of the “race to the 3rd rail” caricature of the argument. When racism/sexism becomes a reflexive, defensive rush for cover, it raises the burden of proof for other folks in other cases where the argument might actually hold merit. Still, I suppose for Priya Venkatesan, PhD, there’s a certain consistency in claiming ethnic/sexual victimization when so much of her teaching is basically about… well… victimization.
[PS – it’s worth noting that the lawsuit appears to have been dropped…]
yep, political correctness is a myth
thank you vivek, nyc akshay and premodernist for being the only people around here who really have any idea what it means to be a critical thinker. for the rest, it’s nice to know that the art of spouting-off is well and truly alive… (please note sarcasm)
After reading the numerous links provided on this page I’ve come to one solid conclusion: Dr. Venkatesan suffers from extremely low self-esteem and could benefit from therapy. I say this with all seriousness– she’s incredibly defensive, sees everything as an attack on her, and can’t take any sort of criticism–constructive or otherwise.
I’m also willing to bet she had a crush on Prof Lowery and it hurt her not to be seen as pretty. This all has to do with her very frail ego.
The “deference to the teacher” outlook is not exclusive to the eastern world. A very white-American female English prof a very white-American male Geology prof I had during my undergrad education were equally as
tyrannicalexceedingly non-Socratic in their methods of education. So, I laud some of Venkatesan’s students for being active consumers and thinkers rather than going through the motions of getting the piece of paper required to get a job.I was bullied as a TA for handing out bad grades, but I can discern the difference between kids jockeying for more points or being teacher-ignoring, cellphone-twidlling dumbasses and real harassment from them.
Don’t forget that the rushed hiring of women and minorities occurs in the corporate world, too, which leads to crap down the road, for which the blame falls squarely on the employer. It does make things harder for all other women and minorities as we have to prove ourselves all the time. The irony is that this construct known as modern law may indeed benefit Venkatesan, but in utilizing it in such a manner, she has done a disservice to the women she claims to serve.
I went to NU… I don’t think we need her kind there. Yes, students can be idiots. At the same time, do you teach to earn the adulation of the masses, or is it to educate those who want to learn and take them to another level in the future, even if you have to take some flack from other students to get there? Anyway, teachers who are less mentally stable than the students they teach–that’s a mistake.
All you women dissing Priya are just jealous because she is way hot, and so smart that you can’t comprehend what she is saying.
Abdul, and what of the men who are dissing Priya?
54 · wonderingwhy2930 said
in other words, those who agree with wonderingwhy2930 are “critical thinkers,” which is particulary ironic b/c the critical thinkers in prof venkatesan’s class (who have “caused subversiveness” in her words) are being taken to court. this post-modern defintion of “critical thinkers” reminds me of foucalts (i think) defintion of freedom of speech, which was freedom for speech for only speech that advances freedom, as he defined it.
58 · Abdul said
OK, what about men? :), are we just plain intelligent and can see through her stupidity? :P, heh heh.
i don’t think that this woman’s sex or ethnicity are primary factors here; i’ve known white male science professors who give off the same ticks. the main difference is that discussion in a science class is often generally constrained; even in an advanced “journal club” genre course there’s only so many weird things you can say. science is hard, and everyone is wrong and looks stupid at some point (aside from the 0.001% of super-geniuses in a priori fields like pure math). that’s life. luckily the victimization mentality is less ubiquitous in science because work needs to get done (though it’s there too, i know people who have bumped up their grade via identity politics blackmail with professors, and PIs who are known not to take on females, etc.).
great thing about natural science: at the end of the day you can’t explain it away when nature say “f**k you!” even lysenkoism had to cede to the ground at the end of the day….
62 · razib said
it’s coming, razib.
We should be thankful she is not a regular reader of this blog. Imagine all the suing she would be doing if we took her arguments apart on any topic discussed here.
Razib:
Agreed, but at least statements in science and math are quantifiably right or wrong. (BTW, what do you mean by “a priori field”? I’m not familiar with the term). One may not have the data immediately, but one can at least devise and perform an experiment to verify a hypothesis. Half the statements that I read in postmodernist writings are not even wrong. In that light, I do not see a major difference between a statement like “There is no reality that is objectively knowable, and all scientific knowledge is what the society of scientists agrees on” and one like “Astrology can predict your entire life, as long as you don’t deliberately go around trying to falsify its predictions”.
Not all social sciences are bad, but postmodernism gives the good stuff a bad name.
importantly, a lot of the new fangled departments, like white-studies, womens studies, or critical race studies, are less departments than they are houses for ideologies. it wouyld be like having a capitalist studies instead of an economics department. you’re not so much learning a subject matter as you are an ideology.
now the line between ideology and subject matter can be a subjective one. so just like a pre-descartian would not be allowed to argue that the world is an illusion in a physics class; dissent from post-modern axioms is similarly justified. that’s probably where the professor is coming from.
add race or gender to the equation and you get a really explosive mix, as dissent becomes a dogwhistle for bigotry and the parameters for acceptable opinion really start to narrow. when derrick bell announced that “the ends of diversity are not served by people who look black and think white” i knew that allan bloom, who predicted political correctness, was right about the diversity movement: what is advertised as a great opening is really a great closing.
well, at least she didn’t place a noose on her own door.
Agreed, but at least statements in science and math are quantifiably right or wrong. (BTW, what do you mean by “a priori field”? I’m not familiar with the term).
a priori means that you don’t need data. classical modern mathematics is about proofs derived from axioms. the ROI for pure intellect in these fields is incredible, and people who got skillz got skillz. in a field like biology there is always a constant flood of new data and literature you have keep up with, so no matter how smart you are you’ll be wrong on the margins, or be out of step with consensus.
as for quantification, that’s a good & fair point. but…the reality is that studies contradict each other, you have to filter results through your set of priors, hunches and intuitions. science is subjective, just not randomly so. in other words, most science is wrong, but that’s a feature, not a bug. a lot of scientific production is culturally conditional, but, over the long term it tends to beat random expectation & fashion & whim. that’s because nature is real, not a social construct, at least in the operational if not ontological/philosophical sense.
there’s a place for a genuine understanding of the sociology of science. but a lot of the people you hear about are jokers. like this individual.
well, at least she didn’t place a noose on her own door.
that was delicious ;=) i called that! some of her defenders on this blog were going on NKVD. thank god conservatives own all the guns 😉
she’s dropped her law suit
http://gawker.com/385785/ivy-league-lawsuit-update
she’s also a research assistant at NW : not tenured…no point discussing her
she’s dropped her law suit
thatz cuz law is a construct.
This is hilarious, haven’t students always been like that, specially freshman? Haven’t professors always had to make examples of people and shown them who’s boss?
I agree with whoever said she needs some self esteem or needs to get laid badly.
btw, she has an MS in genetics from UC Davis. in evolutionary biology at least that’s a REALLY good school. what the hell happened? i might ask around if i know anyone @ davis who knows what she was like….
Reading that Dartmouth Independent story was kind of sad. Dr. Venkatesan clearly seems to be a high-strung, thin-skinned personality – sounds like the competitive world of academia and bratty college students* fueled all the worst parts of it. Not that she’s entirely blameless of course. Her “let’s all clap for the student who’s unusually quiet today” stunt shows she’s in possession of quite the nasty streak of her own.
*Not that they were all brats – judging by those stories I think a lot of her students were rightly pissed – but some of those stories I would never have dreamed of doing to my teachers. It seems like a negative feedback cycle: some kids were brats to Dr. Venkatesan, she grew hostile and defensive and alienated even MORE kids, which increased their rebelliousness, which caused her to melt down even more, etc… from what I’ve read she strikes me as having very little self-awareness.
the parents of the kids at dartmouth are spending A LOT of money per year for their education. i think that there is a sense of entitlement to getting the exact type of education YOU want when you’re shelling out $50,000/year.
I agree with whoever said she needs some self esteem or needs to get laid badly.
this will come up on google really high. just remember that the person you are talking about is a person. i’m not going to say anything i wouldn’t say to her face.
From Manju’s link:
I could not believe my eyes. I thought it was only in an alternate universe where people would be punished because they were successful. I had no idea post-modernism was so insidious.
M. Nam
I could not believe my eyes. I thought it was only in an alternate universe where people would be punished because they were successful. I had no idea post-modernism was so insidious.
don’t worry. they need a monopoly to really affect change. remember that if fewer work hours does result in better research, well, so be it. if not, not. most research is crap; if there was a way to sort and reduce hours i think people would be happy. and just because tardz are voicing some concerns doesn’t mean that they aren’t on the side of the angels.
76 · razib said
I don;t know about the original poster. But I would say it to her face if she was my teacher and sent me an email threatening to sue me.
My last comment on this issue.
68 · Manju said
Umm, last I checked, there was suspicion but no proof that she had. But even if it was, one bad egg doesn’t prove much, just like a small number of black success stories doesn’t establish the absence of racism. Let me suggest that you might do better pretending to be objective while pushing a bell curve agenda for minorities, or genetics as destiny for women if you don’t quote obvious outliers, but instead cite “scientific research” by Pioneer Fund proteges such as Jensen and Rushton, or something similar.
Given the examples and articles you cite, I think that your complaint is only that they are not your ideology.
Yes, so let’s not knock the area of science studies. As you acknowledge, science is subjective, and there is a place for investigating its systemic biases. Also, there is a lot of work in science studies that examines the social impact of technology, not just the “assumptions” of science. And there is a clear space for that work too (eg. genetics, nuclear technology etc.)
If you actually look at who is part of the NCSE, there are a lot of social scientists, educators, and humanities types that are part of NCSE. And yes, without too much analysis, I’d be willing to guess that defenders of creationism and ID are more prevalent among non-scientists, than among scientists. But the numbers are probably likely to be really small in both communities, so it’s not a particularly revealing statistic.
All that said, I agree that there is systematic intimidation against some viewpoints in the academy as the crusades against Finkelstein, Nadia Abu el hajj, Joseph Massad etc. indicate. Political correctness is also an issue in the restricted echo-chamber world of academia, for example, in the case of Michael Bailey. And there is a lot of nonsense in all areas of research, both in science and the humanities. But these do not obviate the need for these fields of study. Nor does citing bad outliers, which are the ones you hear of, almost by construction, make a sound argument.
Razib,
Maybe it’s true that working fewer hours will produce better research – but that has to come from the individual !! What is she going to do – order the men to go home early?!! At least that’s what it sounds like…
Reminds me of my first software job back in India, where “going home early” meant 10PM. We would have marathon programming sessions on the project, where, to win one had to exceed 72 hours non-stop. The thumb-rule was – if your speech is not slurring, then you’re not working. Did we produce good software? Heck yeah!
M. Nam
i think that there is a sense of entitlement to getting the exact type of education YOU want when you’re shelling out $50,000/year.
I’m thinking about stuff like correcting spelling errors on the syllabus in front of the whole class – what’s the point of that except to show what a smarty-pants you are at the teacher’s expense? More importantly, do you really think you’re going to get a good return on Mommy and Daddy’s money if you embarrass the teacher on day one? I’m not saying this as an absolute defense of Dr. Venkatesan, because her reaction clearly inflamed the problem all out of proportion, I’m just saying I can see where the behavior of her students might have been a catalyst for the crazy to come out.
81 · MoorNam said
I hate to state the obvious, Moornam, something tells me those marathon programing sessions took their toll.
76 · razib said
As per my post, I would have no qualms telling her that she could use some time on a therapists couch to work through her issues. I’m guessing that the person who said she ‘needed to get laid’ was joking as she seems to be quite wound up…
yr comments are one thing, but now i am really worried. can you pls let me know what software was at the receiving end of your logic so i kno to stay clear?
66 · pingpong said
post-modernism falls basically within the humanities, which are different from the social sciences.
manju, econ was an unfortunate choice as an example. austrian school, chicago school, lausanne school, supply-siders, monetarists, keynesians, reganomists, mercantilists, neo-marxians, heterdox, neo-ricardians, pro-SAPs/ant-SAPs, masonomists……you get my drift, don’t you? don’t take empiricists at their word.
premodernist:
here’s a real list of free-speech violations on campus, as opposed to your outliers.
86 · portmanteau said
no, it perfect port. all those schools are taught in the departments, leading to free-wheeling invigorating debates in the tradition of the liberal university. now you can argue that liberalism is itself an ideology and that would be an interesting meta-debate, but we have no choice but to choose, and i choose the liberal university over this balkanization b/c the suppression of ideas bodes ill for our republic…especially now that they are coming after the sciences with title 9.
54 · wonderingwhy2930 said
I have to agree- it was a treat reading vivek’s, nyc akshay’s and premodernist’s comments. This woman obviously has issues, and how she has responded so far only serves to detract from her claims, but to completely dismiss her teaching experiences (“spell ‘Gattaca'” isn’t related to her gender/ethnicity, or highly offensive for a teacher? c’mon.) and to reduce a whole field of scholarship is a rather poor way of presenting her story Vinod.
here’s a real list of free-speech violations on campus, as opposed to your outliers.
Campus speech has been assaulted by left leaning administrators and thats pretty indisputable and undeniable. However, hunting down of Pro-Palestine opinion in Poli Science Departments is not an outlier phenomenon. A close friend of mine and a political science graduate of Princeton (undergrad) and Harvard (phd) could only find work in Canada because of his political views on Israel. Unless you are a tenured professor, anti-Israel talk is not good for the career.
i don’t know whether this is a personal issue or not but as a well-known feminist here I’s like to put an end to this “she needs to get laid” or “she’s crazy” speculation.
What she did was common among post-modernists and their gender/race studies fellow travelers, like the colorado college feminists who got conservative punished for parodying them.
in fact suppression of dissent is part of their ideology. post modernism is a combination of marx and neitzsche, and like marxism it rejects classic liberal formulations of freedom. it’s a self-contained ideology that has all sorts of rules to protect it from criticism. for marx, dissent is a sign of being bourgeoisie, for derrick bell, you’re an uncle tom, for radfems your a misogynist. speech codes are the first step in getting rid of this bigotry, which are often dog whistles that only the vanguard postmodernists can hear.
this goes well beyond any personal problems the prof may or may not have.
14 · Nayagan said
You seem to have some sort of condition that prohibits you from recognizing nuance, see things in a very black&white sort of way and think that everybody wants to throw the baby out with the bath water when maybe they’re just suggesting a critical look at cultural assumptions. (Props to NYC Ashkay @ #35.)
37 · louiecypher said
Good “consumers?” I think you mean students or even “citizens,” but “consumers?” Seriously?
88 · Manju said
so you’re saying there is no dissent in the humanities? i was trying to communicate that ideologies/dogmas are prevalent in several pockets of academics — to think that dogma prevails in only women’s studies departments and critical studies departments is clearly wishful thinking. it happens in science departments (whole ‘schools’ tend to cluster around one position about how a scientific question might be resolved, or issues of methodological significance; eg the docs who thought stomach ulcers might be caused by h.pylori and people laughed at them for thinking that ulcers were caused by bacteria), it happens in econ departments (eg role of markets), it happens in history departments (explanations of the industrial revolution), it happens in english departments.
and in any discipline or department where there is a dogmatic stronghold, dissenters/mavericks/loons face real consequences for not toeing the line. sometimes sanctions turn out to be for the best, sometimes they are a mistake. for instance, my university was involved in a protracted battle about whther judith butler ought to be granted tenure or not. my school let her go. someone in the administration must be kicking herself after she became a pomo star. personally, i do not like butler’s work (and agree with criticisms of her writing, esp the one by martha nussbaum) but having a star professor like that can really help a school in $$$ terms. especially because prospective undergrads want to fawn over famous/controversial faculty.
91 · Manju said
Note, too that so many commenters refer to “Priya” on this thread while referring to “Zakaria” in the other thread.
Manju writes: >>in fact suppression of dissent is part of post-modernism’s self-contained ideology…that has all sorts of rules to protect it from criticism.
I know of another ideology that’s similiar in nature…
M. Nam
91 · Manju said
thanks dude. you’re an actual, living, breathing* compassionate conservative. a species as rare as the great indian bustard. the impostors, they do me wrong. not you, manju. not you. you’re different.
90 · Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery said
well pafd, premodernist gave tenure examples and generally FIRE or the ACLU stays out of these disputes b/c the high degree of subjectivity makes it hard to prove a 1st amendment or contractural free-speech violation. after all, there are loads of conservatives going around claiming they didn’t get tenure b/c the dept head caught them watching bill oreilly.
anyway, i guess we have to look at the stats rather than anecdotes, but i don’t know where to find them. it certainly doesn’t strike me that there is any shortage of anti-israel views on campus, with a divestiture movement and all, especially at columbia where massad is having some difficulty. masad has some weird homophobia going on and finklestein’s thesis almost perfectly paralels anti-semitism, though in my book a // does not a bigot make, but i’m conservative and thus have a high bar.
Apparently, she has changed her mind again and plans to sue the school. http://dartlog.net/2008/04/venkatesan-drops-lawsuit-plans.php
Go get some much needed sleep, marathon software developer. Contrary to what that article wants you to believe, the academe isn’t filled with eyes-glued-to-microscope, lost-in-their-own-overachieving-world men in lab coats unaware of the “quiet revolution” by scheming underachieving women.
Every (science) field has its peer-reviewed journal(s) with editorial pages and other print spaces reserved for discussing current affairs, trends in funding, and manpower issues including the issue of how to develop equitable, self-sustaining future generation of researchers. And it is safe to say that most peer reviewers, editors and editorial board members, even today, possess at least one Y chromosome. If this polemical, self-serving, ridiculous and demeaning article managed to command at least an ounce of respect and justifiable fear (and not caused mere laughter) among those male scientists, it would have been printed in every one of those journals. Because it is in their self-interest to get this information out on time and to know what will impede their ability to bring home the bacon if not the glory for their nation.
Instead it is written inside the American Enterprise Institute and published in The American.
92 · Harbeer said
and you seem to have a problem with any attempt at humor other than your own. There is a ‘point’ to Venkatesan’s exercise and it’s not just getting students to contextualize the advancements they enjoy–it’s tantamount to saying that exclaiming “Barack HUSSSSEEEEEIIIIN Obama” to an audience instead of “barack obama” is an innocent exploration of the dynamics of his name instead of a weaselly attempt to tar him as a sleeper-agent Muslim extremist.
94 · Harbeer said
yes, we are all He-Man women-haterz. hate hate hate. Priya, Priya, Priya.
Vindod:
To be fair, I’m sure that Dr. Venkatesan has her own side of the story. I’m sure that if your story was titled something to the effect “The Victim of anti-Indian Institutional Racism at an Ivy League Institution”, that this would bias the reader to be more pro-Venkatesan. In Boston, institutional racism/sexism does occur. NOTE: My hyperlink is about a female Indian MD. At first, public sentiment worked against her, but now they are with her.
I’m not suggesting that Dr. Venkatesan is right/wrong. I’m just suggesting that we’re not presenting the facts with fairness, and that we’re already biasing the readers by using terms “strange” and “twisted.”