Especially if you are a smart, attractive, single desi woman. Seriously. This isn’t about desi women in particular but you’ll see how this information could be used for evil especially by desi parents. I know some of you forward posts to your parents but don’t do it with this one. You’ve been warned. NSFP=Not Safe for Parents.
Ok, now that I’ve cleared my conscience let’s get to the article at hand shall we? Slate.com recently published, The Eligible-Bachelor Paradox, which makes use of game theory to explain why the best women often end up single and alone if they wait “too long” to get married. We’ll save judgement for the end:
The shortage of appealing men is a century-plus-old commonplace of the society melodrama. The shortage–or–more exactly, the perception of a shortage–becomes evident as you hit your late 20s and more acute as you wander into the 30s. Some men explain their social fortune by believing they’ve become more attractive with age; many women prefer the far likelier explanation that male faults have become easier to overlook.
The problem of the eligible bachelor is one of the great riddles of social life. Shouldn’t there be about as many highly eligible and appealing men as there are attractive, eligible women?…Actually, no–and here’s why. Consider the classic version of the marriage proposal: A woman makes it known that she is open to a proposal, the man proposes, and the woman chooses to say yes or no. The structure of the proposal is not, “I choose you.” It is, “Will you choose me?” A woman chooses to receive the question and chooses again once the question is asked. [Link]
So what have we learned so far? Despite the fact that men usually propose, it is the woman that typically dictates if and when a marriage will occur. In a free and modern society (meaning no forced or pressured marriages) the real power rests with the woman. Let’s go on then:
You can think of this traditional concept of the search for marriage partners as a kind of an auction. In this auction, some women will be more confident of their prospects, others less so.In game-theory terms, you would call the first group “strong bidders” and the second “weak bidders.” Your first thought might be that the “strong bidders”–women who (whether because of looks, social ability, or any other reason) are conventionally deemed more of a catch–would consistently win this kind of auction.
But this is not true. In fact, game theory predicts, and empirical studies of auctions bear out, that auctions will often be won by “weak” bidders, who know that they can be outbid and so bid more aggressively, while the “strong” bidders will hold out for a really great deal. [Link]
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So the brilliant and attractive women hold out for someone worthy of their brilliance and attractiveness. Who could blame them? But, meanwhile, the “tier two” women claim their men with their womanly ways, thus removing them from the “game,” leaving the tier one women with fewer candidates that are perhaps, and I quote, “short, socially awkward, underemployed.” Now what about men like me…ahem…cough cough…tier one…cough…men that are still unmarried and ripe for conquest by those aging tier 1 women? I’m guessing we (not me in specific of course, just other tier 1s) might be defective in terms of our megalomania or commitment phobia. James Bond syndrome. So we are essentially out of the game as well (until maybe a much younger tier one or two woman clubs us over the head and aggressively claims us).
Where have all the most appealing men gone? Married young, most of them–and sometimes to women whose most salient characteristic was not their beauty, or passion, or intellect, but their decisiveness. [Link]
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The article concludes with a warning. If you want to win this “game” then follow the advice laid out here. Aggressively choose a mate while you are still young. However, you must first believe that the “prize” is worth winning. That is a much more difficult question. A mate isn’t life’s only prize, or even its most important one depending on your view of things.
HMF, although your reasoning has some validity (a bit pressed for time so cannot respond in detail to each point) my objection is to the generalizations, really. if TBRakaTBC (and others) can make these generalizations, then so, too, can the ABD ladies (based on a handful of personal experiences) and he (and others) cannot argue. the point is, if people subject a certain group(s) to a generalization or stereotype, others can do the same, and the former might just find themselves at a disadvantage with no position to argue. i say this mostly as a person who 1. avoids (and generally dislikes) generalizations; and 2. likes men and people of all different backgrounds – cultural, geographical, or otherwise.
244 · HMF said
I’m not really getting what evidence could possibly support this conclusion. Seems like a case of personal experience.
In my personal experience, to default to defensive accusations about the opposite group when they are criticizing the dominant is pretty typical, “Oh, well, black people are racist, too!” and all that.
The article is funny, I suppose, but these sorts of articles are rather annoying for the most part.
ak,
I mean, generalizations are just that. they’re general, so obviously they don’t encompass every single sample point. For example, generally, men like football, but I don’t.
A lot of what I say comes more so from generalizations about our upbringing, and about the images & ideas most of us are subject to though large input sources like friends from school, television, and white mainstream society. All of that kind of coalesces together into defining whats “good” and what’s not “good”. Of course there are counterexamples,
but frankly, I don’t think for example, the statement that Indian women in the US have a negative opinion (relatively speaking) of desi male’s “game” as if it were is a completely baseless generalization. it’s one that’s subtly echoed, and furthermore supported by the reasons I stated above.
Sure there are counterexamples, but based on the communities cultural background and the respective roles in the “dating game” the conclusion follows quite naturally.
250 · TheBrownReason said
thanks for the concern, sweetheart. but the one i have now is a bit of alright so another one would be quite unnecessary. meanwhile, you should know that recent research shows douching to be quite irritating to women, so i suggest you find a new schtick.
Sure they do, but it stops at beauty, it doesn’t translate to them being “better women” or “better people” in an aggregate sense.
It has to do with the way women are presented to us in general, in particular white women, to many they’re just oversexualized beings. Secondly, it has to do with women sort of being the storehouse of ‘culture’ (which whether thats a good thing or not is debatable) Desi guys just can’t see them as generally “better people” for long term things like family, etc.. because they feel like their culture is going down the drain… so to speak..
I rarely have people staring at me in ways that make me uncomfortable but yesterday, there was a brown guy at the gym kind of circling me, going a little further back perhaps upon realizing that his movement was in my line of sight. I was kind of sweaty and gross so this behavior was bewildering. Is this representative? I don’t know. I’m from the Midwest and I’ve only really lived in places with small numbers of desi folks.
I’m 27. I’m brown, I’m pretty, and I’d rather marry a brown guy. Hell, I don’t really like most men and I give so many passes to brown guys that I ended up dating an artist for a year who was apparently very intimidated by me. I learned this after the relationship ended. How I failed to realize it earlier, I don’t know.
I don’t date straight white American men. My favorite ex was Polish (and white) but he at least had some perspective on racism having grown up in Sweden. I find that straight (bi lends a small amount of perspective curiously) white American men are more than happy to treat me like a white girl. If I were one or even if I were ABD as opposed to being British-American of Indo-Guyanese descent, this might be ok. At the moment, the test is whether I’d take him into a Hindu temple. I don’t have to marry the dude but he still needs to be comfortable with and interested in my background.
East Asian men might be the most insecure that I have ever encountered. My last boyfriend was Chinese-American and in addition to dumping me before (law school) exams so he could focus on his studying, he’s also convinced that he’s going to be single for a very long time. Odd because he’s not actually unattractive or even too short. He could lose 10lb. and dress more nicely but not unattractive. Seriously, God forbid he recognize that his attractiveness is largely in his hands and behavior like dumping your girlfriend before exams so you can focus doesn’t really go over well.
That’s all.
Dear chump – sorry, champ –
You haven’t actually been in the Desh, have you? If my cousin and her mates heard that some Indian American asshats prefer South Asian girls because they ‘know Indian culture/traditions’ they’d bitchslap you right back to your hole across the pond. I give my sisters in India a little more credit than falling hook line and sinker for every desi knob that turns up with a Green Card!
know Indian culture/traditions
Why does a simple statement of “knowing Indian culture/traditions” immediately translate to being a docile, barefoot, breeding machine that salivates at a GC? Most of my cousins and their female friends want to stay in India, because this allure of “America the great, the plentiful” is eroding, and true stories of America’s racism and glass ceiling are making their way back. However, people living in country A are generally more likely to know about country A then those living outside it (and yes it applies to men as well)
By saying that he prefers South Asian girls who ‘know Indian culture/traditions’ he implied that ABD girls don’t ‘know Indian culture/traditions’, and he claimed would prefer a girl who ‘knows how to cook’. It’s the context that’s the problem – I dont know any ABD girls but I highly doubt that just by grace of growing up in the States they don’t have any knowledge of ‘Indian culture/traditions’. Since ‘champ’ leaves other foreign born desi women out of the equation there must be something specially wrong with desi American girls, which I find really hard to believe. What makes them less authentic than South Asian girls?
By saying that he prefers South Asian girls who ‘know Indian culture/traditions’ he implied that ABD girls don’t ‘know Indian culture/traditions’,
I re-read his statement, and I guess I understood it in a relative sense.
dont know any ABD girls but I highly doubt that just by grace of growing up in the States they don’t have any knowledge of ‘Indian culture/traditions’
No, not by virtue, it would take someone’s direct interest and following to pursue them, rather than in India where less of an effort would need to be made (although I agree efforts would need to be made there also)…
His statement couldve been worded better, but generally speaking someone removed from a culture/setting would be less likely to know that culture unless he/she made a strong effort to learn/pick it up.
which is exactly my point of not pre-judging the individuals one may meet..
it’s just troublesome to me that some people can go so easily from two (or even 10) personal experiences to pre-judging individuals based on obvious markers. it’s one thing to be prepared for the possibility than an individual of a particular group might have a particular tendency/trait – it’s a wholly different thing to reject the possibility that they might not at all have that tendency or trait.
a wholly different thing to reject the possibility that they might not at all have that tendency or trait.
This is true. one should definitely allow for the possibilities of outliers.
My last boyfriend was Chinese-American
What style of Kung Fu does he do.
HMF
Yep, but then there is the definition of what ‘knowing Indian culture & traditions’ means. Does it mean, just having a good knowledge about Indian cultural diversity/history? Or does it also mean adhering to what some could consider outmoded notions of social duties? And would an Indian from India necessarily know more about those things just by grace of growing up there? I think not. Perhaps that indeed foreign born desis take a more active interest in their ancestral culture since they don’t take it for granted as much as DBD’s would do. And I’m sorry, but these chumps who come and post about how ABD/American girls are too high and mighty and they prefer South Asian or European girls – which seems like an insult to their intelligence – Euro girls(way to generalise btw!) are certainly no suckers – they don’t sound like they seek the kind of girl with a thorough understanding of Indian culture and history!
Yep, but then there is the definition of what ‘knowing Indian culture & traditions’ means
Sure, he didnt necessarily expound on it, so take the most inclusive defintion you can think of.
And would an Indian from India necessarily know more about those things just by grace of growing up there?
Not necessarily, but I’d say generally yes. At the very least, they’d know the ethos of the Indian people much more deeply and personally, just as an Indian growing up in the US would be more aware of US racism for example, than someone growing up outside of the US.
Perhaps that indeed foreign born desis take a more active interest in their ancestral culture since they don’t take it for granted as much as DBD’s would do.
Some do and some don’t, I don’t consider Sitara or Basement Bhangra “active interest in their ancestral culture” as for taking it granted or not, it really comes from a place of having it be inaccessible or threatened. This might have been the case in America of the 60s and 70s, but now information and venues are pretty accessible.
Of course you dont ‘straight’ white american men, PG. Since ‘straight’ american men typically prefer women.
Yes! My first PG swat.
Wow, 40-year-old ABD mom here, dismayed at all the hating on each other! I’m starting to fear for my 7-year-old ABD kid and his future dating life. Back in the day there were so few of us, we couldn’t harsh all over each other. Folks, most of you will end up happily married, to someone, brown, white, or like my kid’s best friend who is a mixture of Irish, Scottish, Jewish, Japanese and Mexican. In the meantime, enjoy your 20s and enough with the hate! (Hope that doesn’t come off too mom-like.)