This past Sunday I went down to the University of Pennsylvania for a rare, open Q&A session with Kal Penn. As readers may remember from Anna’s earlier post on the subject, Penn is at Penn this spring, teaching a class on representations of Asian Americans in the Media. He’s also shooting episodes of “House” (go, House), and stumping for Obama in his free time, though with that schedule I’m not sure how he has any.
As I understand it, there was initially some controversy about the class — is this going to be a stunt, or a real asset to a the Asian American Studies curriculum?
If it were just about bringing a little glamor to campus, I would be skeptical too. But I think it’s fair to say Penn is both an actor and a careful observer of the representation of Desis in both Hollywood and the Indie film world. If you listen to him talk, it’s clear that he’s thought carefully and self-critically about his experiences and choices (he’s very aware that his role as a home-grown, Muslim-American terrorist on 24 might be seen as “problematic,” for instance — though he still defends the choice to take the role). He’s self-conscious enough to know what a racist representation of a South Asian character is, and call it by that name. But at the same time, he’s open about the fact that minority actors sometimes need to play ball to get an entree in Hollywood.
In response to one of the questions posed by a student at the Q&A Kal Penn effectively acknowledged that this was the dilemma he faced when he auditioned for his first Hollywood movie, “Van Wilder.” Unfortunately, Penn also suggested, in response to another question, that things aren’t all that much better even now, for actors who are just starting out:
“I think things for me personally as an artist have changed dramatically, but I know that overall, that change has been slow and incremental. There is no shortage of truly talented actors of South Asian descent in places like New York, Los Angeles, Toronto, and London. There are folks who majored in theater, studied film, and are experiencing the same struggles I went through when I was starting out. I think that was my main point: things for me have begun to change, but things for others are perhaps remaining the same.” (Kal Penn, from an email)
For instance, Penn was asked not long ago to do an Indian accent for a small role he had in a big studio film, but the respectful rendition of an Indian accent he attempted on camera was found to be insufficiently comical by the studio. After the film was shot, the studio execs actually asked him to go back and re-dub his lines with a thicker, more comical accent. To his credit, Penn refused to do it — and there wasn’t really anything the studio people could do (the film was destined to flop in any case). As Penn put it in his answer to the question, “They were using racism to hide a bad script. Racism was their marketing strategy.”
(That last comment strikes me as dead on, but still distressing. It’s not that racism or sexism sneaks into scripts by accident — it might be that in some ways studios know this is exactly what they need to sell product…)
Penn pointed out that part of the problem is with the writers and studios that make this stuff — and note that the alternative to unfortunate images of Asians in the media is often the complete erasure of all people of color from the fantasy world presented on TV and in the movies. “Friends” and “Seinfeld” were both shows with all white casts, set, improbably, in New York, one of the most diverse cities in the world. In the Q&A, Penn asked, “How come there are no people of color in their New York City?”
But of course, it’s not totally irrelevant to this that most South Asians in the U.S. are professionally oriented — there aren’t many of us trying to be writers or media people. “We’re too busy trying to be doctors and engineers,” Penn suggested, to think of this as a serious career option. If more of us were in the business there might be fewer characters like Apu (or Taj Mahal Badalandabad), and more characters like Gogol Ganguli.
I also stood up to ask a question myself, about naming — since this is one of the things that some readers at Sepia Mutiny have sometimes grumbled about vis a vis Mr. Kalpen Modi (not to mention, Piyush “Bobby” Jindal…). My question was this: I completely understand why you chose a stage name when you were first starting out. But now that you’ve achieved a measure of success as an actor, have you considered going back to your given name?
Some parts of the answer were expected. For one thing, quite a number of professional actors use stage names. Penn did recount that he had been advised by friends to adopt a more “Anglo-sounding” name when he was first starting out. But he also mentioned something I hadn’t known about before, that “Indian uncles” had suggested that, based on Hindu numerology, it would be good luck for him to try and keep his real first name, but add an extra letter to it. And voila: Kalpen became Kal Penn.
As for whether Kal Penn might ever revert to his given name, not likely — once you started getting credited under one name, he suggested, it’s hard to change it. Still, on several of his recent films, he’s lobbied to get his real name introduced on the credits somewhere, perhaps as production assistant. On “The Namesake,” he was fittingly credited for Nikhil as “Kalpen Modi,” and for Gogol as “Kal Penn.”
I really don’t “get” the name issue–if identity is performative, why shouldn’t we be perfectly happy adopting a shifting series of signifiers? It’s not as if a name has any “real” connection to the underlying person. So what if I use “Rob” in NY, ——- (i.e., my given name) in Delhi, and Ru in Taipei? I’m enough of real person to not get screwed up or “confused” by that, and it might just make my everyday interactions a slight bit easier. So, kudos to the success of Kal Penn!!
check this clip out. What do you think?
My point is that I somewhat disagree with the assessment that the thick fake accent is racism. Everyone uses these cheap laughs, including the minorities. Anything that is so outlandish that it amplifies the ‘normal’ and props up the protagonist is fair game. Has been true since Shylock the Jew.
Allow me a sidetrack. I was recently introduced to the thoughts of John Gray, author of “Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia”. He argues that societal progress is a myth, and this has been known to all ancient civilizations. The horrors we have perpetrated have been by well-intentioned people from the left [communism] or the right [fascism, iraq] who have set out to deliver the ideal society, but have met their folly because the associated transmogrification is not humanly possible. i believe in the argument, and extend it to ‘minority’ presentation in popular media. the thought pieces around what counts as racist representation is all fine and good, but i am not convinced that it will ever go away, or IF it should go away. so i think penn was right to take the roles that came his way (Van Wilder) because it led him to more mainstream roles (H&K, ER).
Van Wilder (the original movie) was one of the most underrated comedies I have ever seen. It is really really funny, and I would highly recommend people renting it. It has its gross out moments, but the characters are well developed, and the ending is uproarious. Go see it.
Will Hrithik Roshan be the first real cross over star from “desi-land” to hollywood.
Go Kal! (and John Cho)
I don’t even know what to do . . . I’m just trying to kill time until April 25th–the opening day of Harold and Kumar 2!
I could be remembering this wrong, since it’s been a few months since I saw the movie last, but weren’t his credits the opposite? Gogol: Kalpen Modi, Nikhil: Kal Penn. I’ll have to check it when I get home (as if I needed an excuse to watch The Namesake again…I can’t get enough of that soundtrack).
So true.
This is a very common feature among Hindi actors, with an entry into Bollywood suddenly causing vowel diarrhea in their names, cue Viveik (nee Vivek) Oberoi, Suniel Shetty, and many others. Of course, one mustn’t forget Hindi cinema’s soft-focus
recidivisttraditionalist.rob @ 1:
That is a perfectly fair point if you are thinking only about impact on yourself – you should be able to go by whatever name you prefer, wherever.
To me, it becomes an issue when you using Rob in NY sorta forces someone else into a situation where they have to take up an anglicized name (it is definitely questionable why/how much one should worry about this aspect). I have faced at least a couple of situations where people suggested to me that I shouldn’t be so hung up about my name as plenty others of my background are perfectly fine being called Mike/Nick/Joe.
Although some would say that a rose is a rose is a rose 🙂 (Personally, I don’t put much stock in names – mine or anyone else’s and I think it is ridiculous that people are upset by the Bobbying of Jindal).
I think it is one thing to choose to be called Bobby, or Nick (instead of Nikhil) or even Rob.
But to be forced is a different issue, such as being asked if a person can call you Mary instead of Mythili or Grace instead Gayatri (both real incidents) because of pronunciation issues and comfort.
That’s a very interesting point. I’ll have to think about it more–you’ve (commendably) identified a plausible externality of my actions–but I’m not sure off the top of my head whether that’s an externality that I’m justified in imposing (like, say, the way we allow flag-burning even though some people feel bad about it) or one that’s more like pollution, where we should disincentivize the production of the externality . . . . But you’ve certainly given me food for thought–my actions in this arena are self-interested. I’m deeply attracted the “shape-shifter” idea (e.g., eating the local food, saying “call me ‘Ru,'” etc.), but I will mull this over–thanks.
To Curry and Rice Girl
At my sister’s civil marriage ceremony, the justice tried her name (Geetanjali) twice and then asked if he could call her Lisa.
It’s interesting that there is so much focus placed on names. Did he talk about if/how things are different for him now than they were 10 years ago?
“I am Rahul, but you can call me Rahul” has worked as a useful rejoinder in such situations.
Amardeep, Hi. Thanks for posting — as always — but I find myself wanting to hear more of the actual Q&A (ideally verbatim). Is there a transcript of the interview, or was it recorded somewhere? Or maybe published in the student paper? If possible, can you post more of the Q&A/discussion? Thanks! Regardo,z
That’s the most comically overwrought, ridiculous and strained comparison I’ve ever read in my life! Thanks!
Let me start off by saying that I’m a big fan of KPM. But I think it’s important to take the good (Positive portrayals of brown folk in non-standard roles) with the bad (24).
I’d love to believe that, but then again, there’s no proof that an Indian writer would make things any better.
I’m a little confused about Kal/Kalpen’s comments regarding the movie industry. There must be some prominent Indian writers in the American film industry (I’m sure there are SM articles about this somewhere) and even if there aren’t, his defense of the roles he’s chosen seem a bit thin. First he says that there are a bunch of brown actors, then he claims that desis don’t go into media jobs because we’re too busy trying to be doctors. Surely if there are so many actors struggling to make it, there must be at least a few writers, no? Someone of his stature (especially someone who worked on Namesake, which started as a pet project), could give a little something back by working with these struggling actors (a la Project Greenlight).
I think there is another facet of the Anglo-Indo-Americo literary landscape that has not been properly dug into here.
It is well known that P.G. Wodehouse is extremely, almost obsessively popular throughout the diaspora. The Jeeves & Wooster tales reflect a kind of universal longing in the hearts of many educated desis for a some sort of utopic ideal that can never, and perhaps should never, be realised. Hugh Laurie, the epynomous Dr. House of the TV show House, was the man who, along with Stephan Fry, brought Bertie Wooster into the homes of millions every week on BBC4. Now he shares a stage with Mr. Penn. Coincidence? Karmic convergence? I think not!
Can you say more about this? I immediately confess to being an obsessive fan, old egg, what, what??!!
Quite right. You can pretty much guarrantee that any Indian male character written by a desi striving for popular, as opposed to critical, success will be a villain. And film adaptations of serious fiction (e.g. English Patient) will have to turn the spotlight from Sikh sapper to necrophiliac nazi collaborator to draw a crowd
That’s an interesting point, because when I read the book I felt that Kip and Hana’s love story was the emotional heart, and central story around which everything unfolds.
“As regards the fusing of her soul and mine, therefore, there was nothing doing. But with Gussie, the posish was entirely different. The thing that had stymied me–viz., that this girl was obviously all loaded down with ideals and sentiments and what not”
LOL!! From Wodehouse’s “Right Ho, Jeeves”! This is basically my formative childhood replayed!!!
Personally, I wouldn’t mind having a trust fund, getting sozzled, becoming embroiled in assorted romantic misadventures, and counting on a sage manservant to clean up behind me.
Yes, that is totally the life of my “ne’er do well” cousins here in the US (males and females)!!! One I aspire to, but often fall down on in the pursuit of personal edification or (slight) accomplishment.
I-banking might slow down a bit with the overall economic malaise, maybe Vernon Jordan is looking for a new gig
Indian kid: Mom, Dad, I am going to be a writer/actor.
Dad: Sure, go ahead. I came half way around the world and worked 14 hours a day so that you can have a 1 in a billion shot at making a living as a writer/actor. Also, please take $20 from me a week to play the lotto and just have a good time.
Indian kid: Can you work a couple of extra shifts because tuition just went up by about 50%?
Dad: No problem! Sleep is for gays anyway.
Parents and kid hug and end scene.
Zacko (#15), I don’t know of any coverage of the event beside my own — though maybe the Daily Pennsylvanian might have something (I will check). And I didn’t take much in the way of formal notes… Most of what I remember is reproduced here…
It was pretty informal, overall. Kal Penn made lots of jokes, sometimes at his own expense — he has a good sense of humor about his own career. All in all, they are keeping it a bit low key, so as to “protect the integrity of the class” Kal Penn is teaching. Kal Penn wasn’t allowing photographs or autographs at the session, for example.
rob @12
If you ever took an issue with desi actors affecting an Apu accent or playing eastern-mystic-kamasutra-expert roles, then you should also have an issue with going by an anglicized name.
Desi-stereotype roles make it easy for desi actors to get in the door in Hollywood, but they also make it tougher for a common desi to not get taunted with Seven Eleven references.
Anglicized names make it easier for desi folks to get in with the western crowd, but if enough of us do that, that becomes the expected behavior for desis in the western mind.
I guess we should welcome our new commenter, ravi.
I am by no means preachifying that we all should stay away from anglicized names. I am just trying to layout my current thinking on this topic for folks to shoot holes in it.
This topic is currently a very hot one in my household due to what Obama is doing despite his name related handicap.
Not that I’m implying Kip didn’t get shafted in the film, but that crazy nazi collaborator is the title character and had the spotlight from the beginning. ^__^
Can I just say how beautiful Naveen Andrews is in The English Patient? The hollow at the base of his shoulder….does it have an official name?
That is all. Sorry 🙂
I don’t see a 1:1 correspondence there–yes, I would prefer fewer Apu’s in American popular culture, but no, I don’t agree that anglicizing my name is bad–I foresee/hope for an equilibrium where desis are accepted, successful, and viewed as normative, and if that takes anglicizing my name to achieve the other benefits of such an equilibrium, so be it–little cost to me. My deep dream is to be viewed as an “old egg” around the club, without comment! I think I’m already 75% there.
Good God, woman, pull yourself together!
I find it hard to be upset about The English Patient because I felt the movie was done really beautifully even if it wasn’t faithful to the book. Maybe commercial considerations were a factor, but the movie stood tall purely on its artistic merits, in my opinion.
33 · rob said
It all depends on how you did at the Orchid auction. Man, I so wanted to hear about that at the meetup. I was looking for the monogrammed navy-blue blazer, and with a pastel collar peeking underneath, but I was disappointed 🙁
To be clear, this is not because I want to sign on to some sort of pre-modern worship of European culture–quite the contrary–I want to fully partipate in “modernity,” which means at a minimum scaling back notions of folk culture as necessary or “authentic.”
As the motto of the Heritage Club goes:
LIBERTY AND EQUALITY TO ALL (members only)
37 · rob said
Yes, but note that you privilege a certain kind of cultural trajectory as authentically ‘modern,’ and another kind as essentially folk. That kind of language itself, as we construct it in everyday life, suggests a hierarchy. Certain types of signals we send about ourselves suggest cosmopolitanism, and anything else appears provincial. Which is sort of dogmatic too. Do not, of course, mean to be critical, but point out some implications of your comment. I apologize for this idiotic Spivakish prose, but I hope you get what I mean. It’s been a long day.
28 · Gruhasthu said
Should Christians change our names to something less “Anglicized”, to prevent such undeserved ease with crowds, perhaps out of solidarity for those who keep it real? Please don’t say that it’s different for me– as far as Joe Smith is concerned, I’m also pulling a Piyush; the average non-desi isn’t aware of my being magnanimously grandfathered in to our “Indian” identity because of the Kerala clause.
If you think I didn’t get taunted with 7-11/”you worship cows”/”hey, dot-head” even with a name like mine and a prominent cross ’round my neck, you are mistaken.
Names don’t guarantee what some of you seem to think they might. For those of us who don’t have names which some ad hoc desi committee approves of, this constant othering is unfortunate, insulting and frustrating. That it tends to occur on this blog, which I’ve been a part of since day one, is a point of sadness for me (and those with names like mine).
Monogramming is hopelessly middle-class (see Paul Fussel, Class: A Guide Through the American Status System)–but, the friend who had tipped me off to the orchid event turned out to be correct–by about 4pm most bidders were exhausted or gone, so I was able to snatch up a number of conventional, mature plants as well as some more “exotic” varieties at ridiculously low prices. I bought more than I should have (they arrived in good condition, and I am boiling water in my apt. as we speak to keep the humidity up), but hopefully they will prosper under my care–we’ll see. Incidentally, I seemed to be the only desi at the auction, though there were a lot of east asians. . . .
rob, I am sorry you have to boil the water yourself, looks like the butler crisis has hit you too.
Sorry, for me being classy is dressing derelicte.*
*Seriously, though, my favorite historical designers are Pucci and Coco Chanel, so if your wealth permits you to collect classic clothing, will you please let me see it?
16 · Joolz said
You’re welcome Joolz. Appreciate the candor. I’m glad to be a milestone in your life. 🙂 Still i’ll swing again. how about if i say as a species we’re as wormy as we have always been and we’re not getting any better. that was the thesis underlaying my spew earlier. Gray shares my perspective.
I also assume you’ve read Veblen’s The Theory of the Leisure Class.
A N N A @ 40:
Firstly, my entire point is that no one should feel the pressure (directly or indirectly) to use a name that they don’t wish to use. The word “Anglicized” probably gave you the wrong idea here, but I used that term only because I was writing it from my own perspective. If I were writing it from behind your viewing lens, I probably would have used the word “desification”. I do like the name Latha and even that meanish nick-name cow-eyes, but I definitely prefer to know you as A N N A, because that’s what you prefer to be known as. I know too much about you, don’t I?
Secondly, what rob talked about was actively changing one’s name to be accepted by folks around him. I don’t want that to be a prerequisite for being accepted. And, more importantly, I don’t want my desi sisters/brethren helping (by actively changing their names) in making it a prerequisite.
46 · Gruhasthu said
Why, I do declare, Gruhasthu…I’m charmed. 😉 “Latha” was always a “house” name used by those who were closest to me, and that it has remained. As for the palindrome, I had this twinge of surprise and sadness when you wrote “because that’s what you prefer to be known as”. I thought, “but it isn’t…that name isn’t even mine”. Then I thought some more and realized that yes, in this mutinous context, “Anna” it is.
re: “Cow eyes”… that’s bittersweet. More sweet than bitter, bitter than sweet.
I don’t, either. 🙂 That’s why I’m protective of names like “Anna”, and want them to be accepted within this community, just like you want our names to be accepted outside of it.
rob @ 37
Was that a judgmental statement there that equates my name-hangup to being backwards 🙂
I don’t want an anglicized name to be the prerequisite for being perceived as modern either.
Hehehe–Rahul, you are awesome!!
Portmanteau, I think Veblen is pretty accurate, no?
Is this a ABD specific issue. I have not faced this issue nor do I know of any other Christian DBD who has faced this othering. Wonder why ? I have a very European name which has put a few ‘non desis’ off 🙂