Terror Cell in Madrid

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Hey Mutineers – been on the road for last week & a half and I’ve got a couple of posts in the coffer… Still, headlines covering the break up of the suicide bomb cell in Madrid were worth a quick post. Why? Because it’s the first bust-up I’ve seen where all the terrorists were desi –

The judge identified the three alleged suicide bombers as Mohamed Shoaib, Mehmooh Khalib and Imran Cheema. He said they had arrived in Barcelona from Pakistan some time between October and mid-January.

…Moreno identified the ideologues in the new alleged plot as Maroof Ahmed Mirza, 38, and Mohammad Ayud Elahi Bibi, 63. He said the former was the main religious leader and organizer of the cell.

The five other men sent to jail were named as Mohamed Tarik, Qadeer Malik, Hafeez Ahmed, Roshan Jamal Khan and Shaib Iqbal.

Nine are Pakistanis; Khan is Indian.

The implications are interesting and many.

UPDATE: 2 of ’em have been released including the Indian dude(s) –

Authorities in Spain are understood to have released two persons, including an Indian national, who were among 14 persons arrested in that country for allegedly planning to carry out terror strikes there.

Roshan Juman Khan, a Mumbai resident, was released on Thursday, sources said though an official word from the Spanish authorities was awaited.

The second person, Sarosh Ali Mohammed, was released yesterday with the Spanish authorities in Madrid saying he hails from Hyderabad. It was not clear whether it is the city in India or Pakistan.

Hat tip to Marl Balou for the pointer…

194 thoughts on “Terror Cell in Madrid”

  2. I believe that we need to be more nuanced when it comes to tagging the entire sub-continent with the “desi” moniker. It is still unclear if there were any Indians in the coterie that was picked up by the Spanish authorities & even if there were, it is not clear if they were just inadvertently caught up in the sweep. Here are some links that shed some light on the evolving situation… http://www.indianexpress.com/story/265316.html http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080039148&ch=1/21/2008+9:58:00+PM

  3. Is it 1984 already?

    “They had the will but not the means,” “We can’t take the risk of carrying out the investigation with suicide bombers and in any given moment there is an attack.”

    I’m glad the Spanish have adopted our ‘shoot first, ask questions never, ostracize anyone who objects’ tactics. Based on that article, there is unsubstantiated hearsay, no evidence, and hazy intent?

    bake ’em away, toys.

  4. Marl is onto something. Since when did all of S Asia become “des”? If just one of them is Indian then how come all are desi?

  5. Because it’s the first bust-up I’ve seen where all the terrorists were desi –

    Today (Jan 25) is the fifteenth anniversary of the murder of a CIA Agent by a Pakistani in Virginia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_CIA_shootings. The Pakistani terrorist was arrested in Karachi (and later put to sleep in 2002)

    At least when it come terrorism in the west let us drop the South Asian moniker. Pakistani terror cells are nothing new. An all Indian terror cell would be news (although it will not surprising).

  6. From the second article that Marl Balou linked to:

    The Spanish police today linked all the arrested men with Pakistan-based Lashker-e-Taiba terror outfit.

    Interesting…

    Is it 1984 already? “They had the will but not the means,” “We can’t take the risk of carrying out the investigation with suicide bombers and in any given moment there is an attack.” I’m glad the Spanish have adopted our ‘shoot first, ask questions never, ostracize anyone who objects’ tactics. Based on that article, there is unsubstantiated hearsay, no evidence, and hazy intent? bake ’em away, toys.

    AR – I read all the articles linked – where are you getting this from?

  8. Marl is onto something. Since when did all of S Asia become “des”?

    In the phrase “Desi-born Desi (DBD)”, the first “Desi” means India and the second “Desi” means a member of the diaspora.

    In the phrase “American-born Desi (ABD)”, “Desi” means a member of the diaspora.

    So, “Desi” has two meanings, India and a member of the diaspora.

    If we agree on “Desi” having two meanings, Vinod’s post is OK.

  9. In the phrase “Desi-born Desi (DBD)”, the first “Desi” means India and the second “Desi” means a member of the diaspora.

    Huh? The first ‘Desi’/’Desh’ refers to the subcontinent in general, I thought.

    I think the point that Marl Balou was making was that if all of the desis happen to be of the same nationality, why not just point out that nationality specifically? Especially for international relations/political-related issues.

    Though at least the original post didn’t refer to them as ‘desi’s.’

  10. It does sound to me like the guy from Mumbai and the guy from Hyderabad (my bet is on Indian Hyderabad) just got caught up in the sweep.

  11. how about you change the ‘desi’ qualifier to ‘LLM’ – as in Look Like Me. the viewpoints thus expressed would be easier to absorb.

  12. how about you change the ‘desi’ qualifier to ‘LLM’ – as in Look Like Me. the viewpoints thus expressed would be easier to absorb.

    what do you mean by ‘viewpoints thus expressed would be easier to absorb’?

    and i don’t think i should offend the scythians by insinuating that short/dark/lemurian me looks anything like them…

  13. what do you mean by ‘viewpoints thus expressed would be easier to absorb’?

    nothin’ deep nala. just pointing out that national origin is hardly the central topic here.

  14. nothin’ deep nala. just pointing out that national origin is hardly the central topic here.

    I disagree… I agree it’s pointless to nitpick over the use of ‘desis’ in the post, but national origin does matter… it already looks like one, possibly two, Indian guys got arrested along with the others, but got bailed out by the Indian consulate. And for other reasons as well, I would be surprised if there were to be discovered an international terror cell made up entirely of Indian nationals.

  15. Mohamed Shoaib, Mehmooh Khalib,Imran Cheema, Maroof Ahmed, Mirza Mohammad,Ayud Elahi Bibi,Mohamed Tarik,QadeerMalik,Hafeez Ahmed,Roshan Jamal Khan,Sarosh Ali Mohammed Gee…I wonder what connects all these people….HAS to be a common link,something that points towards a shared ideology, a casus belli.Try as I might, it still eludes me…. Damn..I give up. I cannot think of the connecting thread. Guess these chaps are indeed all DESIS.

  16. I am in no mood for an anti-South Asian/desi/umbrella moniker-thread; all of you have chosen to come to a blog which considers desi a term for all those from the subcontinent. If you are new to this blog, please visit our archives for that acrimonious battle vs. telling us why we are wrong.

    Wear a button on your own time:

    The hostility towards Japanese Americans led other Asian Americans to take efforts to distinguish themselves, lest they become targets. Many people took to wearing buttons declaring “I am Chinese,” “I am Filipino,” or “I am Korean.” [link]

    Back on topic, please.

  17. SM Intern, I don’t have a problem with the use of the term desi… I just disagreed with khoofia on the matter of nationality mattering/not mattering.

  18. 14 · nala said

    I disagree… I agree it’s pointless to nitpick over the use of ‘desis’ in the post, but national origin does matter… it already looks like one, possibly two, Indian guys got arrested along with the others, but got bailed out by the Indian consulate.

    Nala, while you have wholesome concerns about this, others don’t. Khoofia is right.

  19. And I don’t think that me thinking that nationality matters is equivalent to me condoning internment camps for people who look like me but aren’t of the same nationality.

  21. 19 · nala said

    And I don’t think that me thinking that nationality matters is equivalent to me condoning internment camps for people who look like me but aren’t of the same nationality.

    Nala, I was not implying that and I’m sorry if it seemed as if I were. That wasn’t for you.

  22. Nala, I was not implying that and I’m sorry if it seemed as if I were. That wasn’t for you.

    It’s cool… I see that this thread has already seen its fair share of, um, extreme thinking.

  23. I think calling all these guys as desis takes away the spotlight from the historical reasons why Pakistan has become such a hotbed for terrorism. It also gives a fillip to people like Paramhansa above, who insist that the problem is with all muslims, and not embedded in historical or political issues.

  24. I think calling all these guys as desis takes away the spotlight from the historical reasons why Pakistan has become such a hotbed for terrorism. It also gives a fillip to people like Paramhansa above, who insist that the problem is with all muslims, and not embedded in historical or political issues.

    Well said… I agree 100%.

  25. And I think arguing about “who gets to be a desi” is totally inappropriate and an easy way to get this thread closed. Sakshi and Nala, you are both bringing up nuance in a conversation which can easily sweep such thoughtfulness elsewhere.

  26. I am just pointing to the moon. Whether you look at the finger or the moon is entirely up to you. I asked a frank question. Let us have an honest discussion. Burying our heads in the sand will help neither you or me.

  27. Sakshi and Nala, you are both bringing up nuance in a conversation which can easily sweep such thoughtfulness elsewhere.

    Ok, let me add a teeny bit more nuance before bowing out. From the pov of minority solidarity in the US, it is a v wise move not to make such distinctions. But seeing South Asia as one blog is totally not the way to think about world issues. A country is not the same as its diaspora. A Pakistani American may feel they have a lot in common with an Indian American. But that does not mean that India and Pakistan would share the same vision.

  30. 27 · sakshi said

    A Pakistani American may feel they have a lot in common with an Indian American. But that does not mean that India and Pakistan would share the same vision.

    Sakshi, thank you for your thoughtful comments.

    We totally agree, but keep in mind, we are a South-Asian American blog, written from a second-gen perspective, so we will approach things as Americans in the diaspora. It gets us nowhere to have to parse these terms constantly, or come up with fine print, exclusions and exceptions.

    Paramhansha, if you can have this conversation without blanket statements or general condemnation which results in lumping in innocent people with terrorists, converse away.

  31. 23 · sakshi said

    I think calling all these guys as desis takes away the spotlight from the historical reasons why Pakistan has become such a hotbed for terrorism. It also gives a fillip to people like Paramhansa above, who insist that the problem is with all muslims, and not embedded in historical or political issues.

    Sakshi, some of us are not trying to troll but are genuinely stating our true opinions. Can you explain what are the political and historical issues that led to an attempt to bomb Madrid by Pakistanis?

  32. Wow…everyday I’m learning how bias people are towards Muslims on this website(I’m talking about the readers who leave comments not the blog posters-all though some of you sometimes sound like you got shady intentions).

    When did Pakistanis not become desi? You have to remember we are all a product of artificial borders. We use to live side by side-part of one country. How are the hindu SouthAsian’s desi and the muslim one’s not. We “desis” need to stop distancing ourselves from each other to please white people.Instead, we should be trying to get to the root of the problem and reconcile our differences. I didn’t want to it bring to the Hindu-Muslim thing but my hand was forced and this site always claimed to represent desis but the majority of posts have been very Indian/Hindu centric….anyway I agree with SM Intern-I’m sure theres been some epic battles on this topic…so im sure you’ve heard this before. As Nala pointed out there are some hypocritical Mo-Fo’s that read this website, this is my first and last comment. One

  33. 32 · Ali said

    this is my first and last comment.

    That’s a shame. We work hard on trying to be fair to everyone. I assure you that none of the mutineers has “shady” intentions towards Muslims or anyone else, really. If anything, we get accused of being “too nice” to Islam, which is a nonsensical statement to begin with…

    Can’t win, but we keep trying.

  34. FWIW, I’m a non-hindu, non-hindi speaker and yet more than comfortable grouping myself in the “desi” category…

  35. 31 · JGandhi said

    Sakshi, some of us are not trying to troll but are genuinely stating our true opinions. Can you explain what are the political and historical issues that led to an attempt to bomb Madrid by Pakistanis?

    Of course, the reasons behind this particular attack is not an immediate political and historical grievance. But there are v well-documented reasons for the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism in Pakistan, involving Saudi petro-dollars, American interference in Pakistan due to the cold war and the myopic vision of the Pakistani army about its country’s future. That’s all I’ll say on this, because I don’t want to derail this thread.

  36. 35 · sakshi said

    But there are v well-documented reasons for the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism in Pakistan, involving Saudi petro-dollars, American interference in Pakistan due to the cold war and the myopic vision of the Pakistani army about its country’s future. That’s all I’ll say on this, because I don’t want to derail this thread.

    I thought your comment was totally on topic. It’s a far more desirable direction to head in than “Who is a desi?” or “All Muslims are terrorists.” The reason why discussions about Islam don’t stay open on this site are because of a lack of such honesty, historical context, fairness and nuance.

  37. On that note, this might be a trivial thing to focus on, but one of the men is named Imran Cheema… I thought that ‘Cheema’ as a Pakistani surname was found only among Punjabis. I would guess that most of the Pakistani men would be from the NWFP, but I guess not in this case. Can anyone point out where in Pakistan these men might be from?

  38. They all ought to be waterboarded, shot, and then pissed on.

    Shouldnt Rudy be campaigning in Florida instead of leaving anonymous comments here.

  39. 35 · sakshi said

    Of course, the reasons behind this particular attack is not an immediate political and historical grievance. But there are v well-documented reasons for the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism in Pakistan, involving Saudi petro-dollars, American interference in Pakistan due to the cold war and the myopic vision of the Pakistani army about its country’s future.

    Doesn’t this explanation reduce Pakistanis to puppets? Pakistanis are just like you and me, able to discern between good and bad and in such case morally responsible for their political and religious positions. A lot of these fundamentalist movements sprung from the grassroots(ie Deobandi school). I’m not sure why American interference in Pakistan causes a young Pakistani man in Spain or London to decide to blow up buildings and kill innocent people. The more plausible explanation is he is doing it because thats what he believes Islam compels him to do.

    If we look at the demographics, these terrorists do not come from any of Pakistan’s minority religious communities. they also don’t come from the Shiite faction. These terrorists are overwhelmingly Sunni Muslims. In addition this isn’t an exclusively Pakistani phenomenon. Terrorists also come from Arabic countries and the Arab terrorists are also always Sunni Muslim.

    I think the logical conclusion is that there is an extremely virulent form of extremism in Islam. This leads to any country with a Sunni Muslim population to inevitably suffer a terrorist attack and face a radical movement in their midst.

    Calling these terrorists “Desi” while not even mentioning they are Muslim disguises this problem. The terrorist impulse is a function of these men’s religious beliefs not their ethnicity.

  41. Jeeze, Vinod. I seriously cannot believe you made the “desi” slip like that. It’s BROWNZ, man, don’t you remember?

    It’s like it’s 2004 all over again or something. I think this des-…er, brown has PTSD. Where’s Razib, dammit?

  42. SM Intern I am slightly hurt by your statement. I am definitely not a bigot. The brush I attempt to paint with is a fine one. My point is that there is a diaspora that I identify with (and am identified with),in the land that I live and work in. If some members of that diaspora have shown a tendency to attack their host society,due to whatever cause/perceived injustice/alienation, it must be identified, and that must be done with honesty, without resorting to denial or misplaced political correctness. I am not uneducated enough to believe that all muslims (including some of my best friends) are extremists, nor am I naive enough to believe that religion has got nothing to do it. If someone has a better explanation about the motives of these men, I am willing to listen with an open mind. But I believe that the debate should be an open and honest one

  44. We should be looking at why these men are becoming such extremists and what fuels their hatred. If they are so discontented that they can die while killing innocents then obviously something must be done fast to change this. And this is not a problem of religion, it is an issue of welfare of the society and the country’s economy. When killing self leads to the family getting a suicide bonus, why not go for it? If a suicide bombing has no monetary benefits then will the men be still willing enough to die for a cause? We should understand the despair that makes it easier to commit suicide than to find a job and support a family.

  45. All desis….until this transpires on the Indo-Pak border.

    Yes, they’re all desis. And they’re all also (apparently Sunni) Muslims. From Pakistan.

  46. Mohamed Shoaib, Mehmooh Khalib,Imran Cheema, Maroof Ahmed, Mirza Mohammad,Ayud Elahi Bibi,Mohamed Tarik,QadeerMalik,Hafeez Ahmed,Roshan Jamal Khan,Sarosh Ali Mohammed Gee…I wonder what connects all these people….HAS to be a common link,something that points towards a shared ideology, a casus belli.Try as I might, it still eludes me…. Damn..I give up. I cannot think of the connecting thread. Guess these chaps are indeed all DESIS.

    They are all New England Patriots fans.

  48. We should be looking at why these men are becoming such extremists and what fuels their hatred. If they are so discontented that they can die while killing innocents then obviously something must be done fast to change this. And this is not a problem of religion, it is an issue of welfare of the society and the country’s economy. When killing self leads to the family getting a suicide bonus, why not go for it? If a suicide bombing has no monetary benefits then will the men be still willing enough to die for a cause? We should understand the despair that makes it easier to commit suicide than to find a job and support a family.

    It’s not simply a matter of economic despair… many of the 9/11 hijackers were trained as engineers. The British born-and-bred boys/men responsible for the attacks on the London tube in 2005 were from well-to-do families. After a certain point it is about religious extremism.

  49. 42 · Paramhansa said

    t must be identified, and that must be done with honesty, without resorting to denial or misplaced political correctness.

    Well, now I’m slightly hurt, so we are even. By the way, some of my best friends are Hindu.

    I’m all for an open and honest discussion, as long as it is indeed open and honest. So far, so good.

  50. JGandhi Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery “JGandhi is mankinds last hope against Islamo-fascism.” First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win